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Post by GNick99 on Mar 6, 2011 16:20:37 GMT -5
I was thinking about team needing a #1 franchise center....so hard to acquire one. How about throwing big money at a RFA this summer and giving up 3 possibly 4 first round picks for Steven Stamkos? He is 21 and a 50 goal scorer. We would have him signed long term. I know we would have to do some cap addressing...give Kostitsyn away, Hamrlik be done here also. Either those two gone or sent Gomez to minors but not sure that one yet. With Vinny and St. Louis both holding no-trade clauses Tampa don't really have much room to match the contract. They would have over 20 million locked up in 3 players
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Post by blny on Mar 6, 2011 21:20:32 GMT -5
I never think of SS as a center. IMO he's really a winger, and St Louis the center. Just not on paper.
You'd have to give up five firsts for SS, cause that's the size of the contract you'd have to offer him to leave. I'm not sure it would be enough either. Having watched his interview on CBC Saturday, I get the feeling he likes the laid back feel of Florida.
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Post by GNick99 on Mar 7, 2011 6:29:23 GMT -5
Players like that are impossible to acquire. We would have him in prime years. Most of those picks would be late first round once we add Stamkos, doubtful to make NHL.
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Post by blny on Mar 7, 2011 6:48:15 GMT -5
I've contemplated the RFA route before because there simply isn't a great crop of forwards out there this Summer. SS would be as good as any to make that sort of investment in.
Gagne has 21 points in 47 games, and is a UFA this summer. His cap hit is $5.25 million. I quite sure he'll be allowed to walk away and that money will be used to sign Stamkos.
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Post by GNick99 on Mar 7, 2011 15:07:56 GMT -5
If Habs are serious about winning a Cup they best make a move like this in near future. They are at least 1 player away and in 2 years both Price and Subban will be hitting the big payday then be no chance to add a free agent or big contract thru trade.
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Post by BadCompany on Mar 7, 2011 16:39:41 GMT -5
I've never been a fan of the RFA-offer route. I generally think it's pointless, and perhaps even counter-productive. They are almost always matched, and indeed the only one of significance that wasn't matched - Dustin Penner - didn't really pan out for the Oilers. They gave up a high first, high second and high third to get a couple of years of mediocre underachievement, followed by a (stalled?) former first round pick prospect and a mediocre first round pick in a bad draft. Other offers have simply resulted in ill-will, causing harm to the team making the original offer. Like Vancouver when they went after David Backes; the Blues matched, and then made a retaliation offer for Steve Bernier, which the Canucks then matched themselves. The only problem being the Canucks ended up paying Steve Bernier $2.5 million, which is pretty silly. Brian Burke attempted to "RFA-threaten" the Bruins with an offer sheet, and ended up being screwed over in a trade anyways. Imagine if he had of given up three or four first round picks for Kessel??
Tampa will clearly match any offer for Stamkos. So in my mind it's pretty pointless to even try. Having said that, IF you are dead-set on making an offer to someone my target would be Zack Bogosian. And the ONLY reason I target him specifically is because the Thrashers ownership is a mess, and they may be less inclined to match any overpayment that it would take to get him. Otherwise, in my opinion every other team out there will simply match any offer made to anyone of significance.
In the next CBA, if I were King of the NHL, I would remove draft pick compensation for RFA offers, but give the original team the right to match. So say you make a $5 million offer for Bogosian (I'm not saying we should) the Thrashers would have the right to match the offer, or walk away. If they walk away they get nothing. THEN I think you would see a lot more RFA offers being made, which would be fun for everyone, if you ask me.
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Post by IamCanadiens on Mar 7, 2011 16:43:16 GMT -5
I'd be shocked if TBay doesn't lock his arse up before the possibility of signing him happens. I'm certain many teams are dreaming of this. The only possibility would be if Stamkos wants to leave and as BLNY mentioned he is happy where he is.
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Post by blny on Mar 7, 2011 16:47:36 GMT -5
I've never been a fan of the RFA-offer route. I generally think it's pointless, and perhaps even counter-productive. They are almost always matched, and indeed the only one of significance that wasn't matched - Dustin Penner - didn't really pan out for the Oilers. They gave up a high first, high second and high third to get a couple of years of mediocre underachievement, followed by a (stalled?) former first round pick prospect and a mediocre first round pick in a bad draft. Other offers have simply resulted in ill-will, causing harm to the team making the original offer. Like Vancouver when they went after David Backes; the Blues matched, and then made a retaliation offer for Steve Bernier, which the Canucks then matched themselves. The only problem being the Canucks ended up paying Steve Bernier $2.5 million, which is pretty silly. Brian Burke attempted to "RFA-threaten" the Bruins with an offer sheet, and ended up being screwed over in a trade anyways. Imagine if he had of given up three or four first round picks for Kessel?? Tampa will clearly match any offer for Stamkos. So in my mind it's pretty pointless to even try. Having said that, IF you are dead-set on making an offer to someone my target would be Zack Bogosian. And the ONLY reason I target him specifically is because the Thrashers ownership is a mess, and they may be less inclined to match any overpayment that it would take to get him. Otherwise, in my opinion every other team out there will simply match any offer made to anyone of significance. In the next CBA, if I were King of the NHL, I would remove draft pick compensation for RFA offers, but give the original team the right to match. So say you make a $5 million offer for Bogosian ( I'm not saying we should) the Thrashers would have the right to match the offer, or walk away. If they walk away they get nothing. THEN I think you would see a lot more RFA offers being made, which would be fun for everyone, if you ask me. I'm more or less of the same opinion regarding RFA sheets. It's a huge risk, and does foster ill will. Burke was no fan of Lowe after the Penner deal. I do think teams should get compensation in the event they don't match, but the current return is too high. IMO, it should be similar to the way it was in the past - like Stevens and Shanahan. In the summer you sign another team's RFA, they get to pick one of a first round pick or an RFA of equal salary value off your roster. The salary is from the previous contract. So, if you sign an RFA who's previous contract was $3.25 million, that team could take Kostitsyn if they were inclined (for example). |
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Post by jkr on Mar 7, 2011 18:17:48 GMT -5
I've never been a fan of the RFA-offer route. I generally think it's pointless, and perhaps even counter-productive. They are almost always matched, and indeed the only one of significance that wasn't matched - Dustin Penner - didn't really pan out for the Oilers. They gave up a high first, high second and high third to get a couple of years of mediocre underachievement, followed by a (stalled?) former first round pick prospect and a mediocre first round pick in a bad draft. Other offers have simply resulted in ill-will, causing harm to the team making the original offer. Like Vancouver when they went after David Backes; the Blues matched, and then made a retaliation offer for Steve Bernier, which the Canucks then matched themselves. The only problem being the Canucks ended up paying Steve Bernier $2.5 million, which is pretty silly. Brian Burke attempted to "RFA-threaten" the Bruins with an offer sheet, and ended up being screwed over in a trade anyways. Imagine if he had of given up three or four first round picks for Kessel?? Tampa will clearly match any offer for Stamkos. So in my mind it's pretty pointless to even try. Having said that, IF you are dead-set on making an offer to someone my target would be Zack Bogosian. And the ONLY reason I target him specifically is because the Thrashers ownership is a mess, and they may be less inclined to match any overpayment that it would take to get him. Otherwise, in my opinion every other team out there will simply match any offer made to anyone of significance. In the next CBA, if I were King of the NHL, I would remove draft pick compensation for RFA offers, but give the original team the right to match. So say you make a $5 million offer for Bogosian ( I'm not saying we should) the Thrashers would have the right to match the offer, or walk away. If they walk away they get nothing. THEN I think you would see a lot more RFA offers being made, which would be fun for everyone, if you ask me. I'm more or less of the same opinion regarding RFA sheets. It's a huge risk, and does foster ill will. Burke was no fan of Lowe after the Penner deal. I do think teams should get compensation in the event they don't match, but the current return is too high. IMO, it should be similar to the way it was in the past - like Stevens and Shanahan. In the summer you sign another team's RFA, they get to pick one of a first round pick or an RFA of equal salary value off your roster. The salary is from the previous contract. So, if you sign an RFA who's previous contract was $3.25 million, that team could take Kostitsyn if they were inclined (for example). Plus Lowe started the ball rolling by making a huge offer for Vanek which Regier matched. Then he set his sights on Penner. |
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Post by Andrew on Apr 1, 2011 14:04:51 GMT -5
Unless they bury Gomez in the minors, the Gomez / Pleks 1-2 combo won't change for at least a season. The best that the Habs can hope to do is add grit to the wings. There are viable options on the UFA market. Tops on my list to target would be:
1. Laich (I think Was use him as a wing or center)
2. Cole
Other UFA players of interest might be (Leino, Glencross, Upshall), though I haven't watched enough of them to know how much grit they bring. The salary for any of these signings would have to come from moving Kostitsyn, and / or Pouliot, IMO.
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Post by blny on Apr 1, 2011 15:25:55 GMT -5
Gomez has had a better second half. With a decent trio, which he had when Max was called up and performing, the line with Gionta was working quite well.
Pleks has had a reasonable season. First half was better. Given where this team is, I think Martin has to abandon the balanced approach and put Akost back with Pleks and Squid. Put Halpern back at center and let him take the important draws. It's the best trio we have right now. We need to get Kostitsyn and Cammalleri going for the playoffs.
Looking at the lines for next season:
Pacioretty-Gomez-Gionta
??-Plekanec-Cammalleri
Moen-Eller-??
??-White-??
I'm prepared to walk away from Kostitsyn despite the fact he's a plus player and reasonable responsible. I want more jam, and a guy you notice out there night to night. I want a north south presence on that line.
Cole is an option. His health is always the concern for me. He's had a healthy season though, and produced 49 points in 77 games. Virtually the same numbers as Andrei. He's making less this season, but he's older.
Andrew Ladd is intriguing. He's -11, but produced a career year for himself. He's 26 and on the rise. He's big, tough, and physical. He's an RFA, so you'd have to be prepared to part with draft picks for him.
Curtis Glencross could be an affordable option. 23 goals this year. He's a UFA, and only making $1.25 million.
There are a lot of UFA options for the 4th line. Guys like Eager, Konopka, McIntyre and Jones in Edmonton, are all on my list of people to call July 1.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Apr 8, 2011 14:05:35 GMT -5
Looking at the lines for next season: Pacioretty-Gomez-Gionta ??-Plekanec-Cammalleri Moen-Eller-?? ??-White-?? The clean slate approach. We still have options on both AKost and Pouliot, and it's possible we would keep both for another year. I doubt either of them gets a long-term deal. Pacioretty/Gomez/Gionta AKost/Plekanec/Cammalleri Pouliot/Desharnais/Darche Moen/Eller/White That's basically bringing back the same crew that underachieved this year, but there's not much we can do about the big contracts and it's reasonable to assume we will get improvement out of guys like Pacioretty, Desharnais, and Eller over a full season. It's a big question for Gauthier when planning for next year - how much better will the young guys be? Can Gomez turn it around? Are we willing to bury his contract in Hamilton if we can find a better deal out there? There are no real good options in Hamilton. But if you subtract AKost and Pouliot, that's about $5m in cap space that you could use to get a top 6 winger, but it's not a very exciting UFA class (Frolov, Gagne, Cole, Kovalev, Tanguay). The big questions are on the blue line. Spacek/Subban Gorges/?? ??/?? We have 3 spots to fill, 4 if Spacek retires (a guy can hope). Markov, Hamrlik, and Gill account for $13.5m in cap space. Assume we sign Markov to a 1-year deal at his current salary; that leaves us $7.75m to sign another big UFA (Kaberle, Pitkanen, Hannan, Brewer, Wisniewski) or we could swing a trade for a guy like Brian Campbell, although that leaves us very little flexibility. It will be interesting to see how hard the Habs try to bring Alexei Emelin over from Russia. His KHL contract is up, and he's probably the best immediate D prospect we have, but it's hard to tell playing in Russia. He's 24 and I'm sure the Habs spent enough time watching him to see how well his game would translate into the NHL. But he seems like a big, strong kid (6'1", 220 lbs), and plays with a bit of an edge. |
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Post by blny on Apr 8, 2011 22:25:22 GMT -5
Pouliot's done imo. He's simply not effective in a checking role, and he's not good enough, enough of the time, to be top six. I can live with Akost at the same money I suppose. $3.25 million per is something of a bargain for a 50 point player who can back check and be responsible. There is undeniable chemistry with Pleks and Squid. I just wish they'd leave the line together all year no matter what. He might have put up 60 points this year had they left that line alone. The UFA class is not flashy for sure. Parise is the biggest fish on the wing, and he's an RFA. He's changed agencies this year - going to Don Meehan. It will be very interesting to see what happens in NJ. IMO, the only way they can keep him is to either sign him to a deal that's back loaded or convince Marty to retire. Otherwise they'll have him, Kovy, and a bunch of AHLers. All that said, the place for Montreal to make an impact on the UFA market is in the bottom 6. Guys like Eager, Rupp, Konopka, Laich, and a slew of others are all available. These types may not be impact players, but a combination of them could have a huge impact on our club. Pacioretty-Gomez-Gionta Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Cammalleri Moen-Eller-  (Darche plays left, not sure how happy he is on the RW) Eager-White-Rupp That 4th line could cause a lot of havoc. All can fight, all can play, all can bang. Rupp is reasonably responsible. Eager is plain nuts. We need some of that. Eager and Rupp both make less than a million, and it likely won't take much more than that to sign them. Eager is 26 and Rupp 30. Third line RW would have to be looked at. I'm not including Desharnais because I think he'll either be traded or be a call up player next year. It would be nice if the RW on the third line had a little offensive flair so that he can work with Eller. Maybe a Scottie Upshall type? He's only 26. There are questions on D, but I'm certain Markov will be back. Subban's emergence this year can't easily be quantified other than to say it's enormous. Now is the time to sign Gorges long term. Get him signed to something in the $2 million area and be happy about it because he's a cornerstone player. Spacek on the left is a far better player than Spacek on the right. On the left he's a reliable player. People just tend to see him when he's on the right, where he's unhappy. It's hard to say what will happen with Wiz. I'd love to keep him, but I don't know if we can. Can we have 3 offensive defenders? I'm one of those on record saying I'd be content with Gill in a third pair and PK role. He can still do that well. Asking him to play top four mins is the problem, but with Subban it's been a decent pairing that has shown an ability to handle the time for the most part. If Spacek does retire, I'd bring him back. Not sure we can if Spacek stays. Markov-Subban Gorges-Wizniewski Spacek- IMO, that unit lacks muscle. There are some veteran guys out there that play with an edge that could be a fit. I won't hold my breath for Emelin, but would love to get him here to be sure |
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Post by franko on Apr 8, 2011 23:26:14 GMT -5
I don't think you are going to get Gorges long term for $2M. He's RFA this year but 27, so he's on the cusp of UFA, and someone will give a solid d-man more than 2 once he has the chance to go. I'm not sure how much more to offer him -- nor how long -- but we need to be looking long term since Markov won't be what we need for too much longer.
Josh is solid. we have PK for flash and dash, Josh for solid and steady, and if we can fill in one more solid blank [maybe it is Markov for a coupla years] then I'd almost [ducks and looks around] keep Gill for 3rd line duties [though I did say almost, I'd really have to rethink that one].
it all comes down to time on ice [Gill's biggest problem] and injuries [which causes Gill's biggest problem].
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Apr 9, 2011 0:10:59 GMT -5
I don't think you are going to get Gorges long term for $2M. He's RFA this year but 27, so he's on the cusp of UFA, and someone will give a solid d-man more than 2 once he has the chance to go. I'm not sure how much more to offer him -- nor how long -- but we need to be looking long term since Markov won't be what we need for too much longer. Josh is solid. we have PK for flash and dash, Josh for solid and steady, and if we can fill in one more solid blank [maybe it is Markov for a coupla years] then I'd almost [ducks and looks around] keep Gill for 3rd line duties [though I did say almost, I'd really have to rethink that one]. it all comes down to time on ice [Gill's biggest problem] and injuries [which causes Gill's biggest problem]. Ixnay on Gill and old-slow-guy option please!! We need to get faster and tougher back there. |
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Post by franko on Apr 9, 2011 8:53:50 GMT -5
don't get me wrong . . . I'm not suggesting it as a positive . . . if we could please get a young strong buck that isn't Komi-like [that is, can play defense and not make a million mistakes a game] I'm all for it. but $ come into the equation, and experience, and fewer minutes, then maybe -- maybe -- I'd be OK with Gill.
I no longer detest the original pick-up -- just hate it now. never been a fan of his, but there are times his play is almost acceptable.
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Post by blny on Apr 9, 2011 10:36:34 GMT -5
Gorges is making a little over a million. Worst case scenario, throw him a long term deal (7 years) and double his current salary. Gorges at $2.5 million cap hit could be attractive to both sides.
Some have mentioned going after a guy like Steve McIntyre in Edmonton. He's an uber goon that can play defense or forward - sort of. He could be that 13th forward or 7th defender, and dress for 30-40 games.
I'll be clear that I'm not over the moon ecstatic about having Gill back, but I recognize his value so long as he's kept in the role that's suited for him. Keep him as a third pair only, and PK, and I think he's okay.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Apr 9, 2011 10:49:00 GMT -5
Interesting approach on the bottom 6, BLNY. Guys like Eager and Rupp would be OK I suppose if they can come cheap enough (around the $1m level), but we tried that with Travis Moen and I'm not sure that has really worked out too well. Those would be fairly low risk signings.
Not sure what happens with Desharnais. I really like the kid and think he could be a 50-point player with decent ice time and wingers, but the team really needs Eller to progress and he would probably be the #3 centre behind Gomez and Plekanec. That leaves Desharnais on the 4th line, which would be OK but I'm not sure you get the most out of him there.
Gomez really sucks ice time and development out of guys like Desharnais and Eller in addition to money. I'm not sure Gauthier has the cojones to walk into Geoff Molson's office and tell him they guy needs to go, and I'm not sure Geoff has the nerve to stick Gomez in Hamilton like the Rangers did with Wade Redden, and it's clear Martin is willing to give Gomez chance after chance, prime ice time, at the expense of other guys.
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Post by franko on Apr 9, 2011 11:23:57 GMT -5
Gorges is making a little over a million. Worst case scenario, throw him a long term deal (7 years) and double his current salary. Gorges at $2.5 million cap hit could be attractive to both sides. I could see this . . . maybe at $2.75 cap hit. he's going to get $2 next year; if he isn't locked up long term he'll go somewhere else and get it. steady d-mean are at a premium. and ~ 15 minutes a night. he isn't suited for what he's playing and that leads to mistakes. at what $$ cost is the question, and can you get the same/younger for the same price? |
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Post by franko on Apr 9, 2011 11:26:51 GMT -5
Interesting approach on the bottom 6, BLNY. Guys like Eager and Rupp would be OK I suppose if they can come cheap enough (around the $1m level), but we tried that with Travis Moen and I'm not sure that has really worked out too well. Those would be fairly low risk signings. I'd much rather have Eager than Moen. Moen tries, but Eager can be nasty, and a bit of nastiness would certainly go a long way to making a difference. |
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Post by Skilly on Apr 9, 2011 12:00:48 GMT -5
We all better hope Spacek plays next year ..... if not, then you better budget for the 3.8 million of cap-space he will cost us anyway. His is a 35+ contract ... it counts towards our cap if he retires.
I sure hope if Louis Leblanc shows in training camp that he is ready that they let him on the big-club ... i am not a fan of sending players down to Hamilton, just because it is the norm. JM should pair Leblanc and Eller together right off the bat and let them have fun, and develop chemistry
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Post by blny on Apr 9, 2011 13:15:01 GMT -5
Interesting approach on the bottom 6, BLNY. Guys like Eager and Rupp would be OK I suppose if they can come cheap enough (around the $1m level), but we tried that with Travis Moen and I'm not sure that has really worked out too well. Those would be fairly low risk signings. Not sure what happens with Desharnais. I really like the kid and think he could be a 50-point player with decent ice time and wingers, but the team really needs Eller to progress and he would probably be the #3 centre behind Gomez and Plekanec. That leaves Desharnais on the 4th line, which would be OK but I'm not sure you get the most out of him there. Gomez really sucks ice time and development out of guys like Desharnais and Eller in addition to money. I'm not sure Gauthier has the cojones to walk into Geoff Molson's office and tell him they guy needs to go, and I'm not sure Geoff has the nerve to stick Gomez in Hamilton like the Rangers did with Wade Redden, and it's clear Martin is willing to give Gomez chance after chance, prime ice time, at the expense of other guys. Moen has been ok, but in many respects I think he's been a man alone and asked to fill too many roles. Leave him on the third line, let him be a reliable defensive forward that sticks up for team mates when needed. Eager and Rupp are bigger, meaner, and can be left to be the deterrents. Gomez has had a rough year. No doubt. His season started to get better in Jan and it had a lot to do with Max being called up. IMO, part of Scott's troubles can be attributed to often playing with only one offensive threat at a time. It's hard to produce in those situations. I've seen him simplify in the second half, and shoot more. That's good. I'm hoping that a full season of Max and Brian playing with him gets him back on track. |
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Post by franko on Apr 9, 2011 15:11:13 GMT -5
We all better hope Spacek plays next year ..... if not, then you better budget for the 3.8 million of cap-space he will cost us anyway. His is a 35+ contract ... it counts towards our cap if he retires. PG will need to pull a Lucky Lou and put him on LTI |
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Post by blny on Apr 9, 2011 15:48:05 GMT -5
I'll be clear that I'm not over the moon ecstatic about having Gill back, but I recognize his value so long as he's kept in the role that's suited for him. Keep him as a third pair only, and PK, and I think he's okay. and ~ 15 minutes a night. he isn't suited for what he's playing and that leads to mistakes. at what $$ cost is the question, and can you get the same/younger for the same price?[/quote] One year, $1.5 million? |
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Post by canadien1313 on May 10, 2011 11:57:41 GMT -5
My dream off season's moves :
Get rid of A.K., Gomez, Pouliot and Spacek....
Try to get Rick Nash from Columbus (with some of the mentioned above + picks)....
Sign Boulton and Konopka as UFA...
Re-sign Markov, Wiz, Hamrlik, Gill, Darche
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Post by blny on May 10, 2011 17:34:19 GMT -5
No way Columbus parts with Nash.
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Post by jkr on May 10, 2011 20:01:15 GMT -5
No way Columbus parts with Nash. I have to admit this has crossed my mind too. Columbus has been dismal, making the playoffs once in their entire existence with Nash in the lineup. I can't imagine how bad they would be without him. Stranger things have happened though. Thornton & Richards were moved for spare parts. This is anothere pipe dream I can add to my list along with the old Lecavalier musings.  |
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(Darche plays left, not sure how happy he is on the RW)
