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Post by Marvin on Jun 23, 2011 15:15:02 GMT -5
Now he's traded Mike Richards to LA for Symonds and Schenn. Woah!
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 23, 2011 15:27:39 GMT -5
Definitely....I can see Carter but not sure of trading Richards. Philly had the depth at center to take such a gamble though
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Post by Marvin on Jun 23, 2011 15:35:56 GMT -5
Symonds has a bit of the toughness that Richards has, but I don't think that he's as offensively talented. Voracek COULD become a better offensive player, but as good as Carter? I don't know. Schenn is the wild-card. If he becomes the player that everyone is predicting...
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Post by drkcloud on Jun 23, 2011 15:38:51 GMT -5
Wow. You're right Holmgren's always had cojones. I knew they would trade Carter to free up money for a goalie (finally) but who knew they would Richards. Pretty darn good return though although Schenn has yet to prove himself.
Maybe Richards will learn some humility. Disliked him ever since the BS hypocrisy with PK
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 23, 2011 15:53:57 GMT -5
PHI gives: Richards (26), Carter (26)
PHI gets: Voracek (21), Schenn (19), Simmonds (22), the #8 pick in the draft, a 3rd, and about $11m in cap space, some of which will be used to sign Bryzgalov.
I'm not sure I get it. Richards and Carter are two excellent players, probably the two best forwards on a very good Flyer group (including Briere, Giroux, van Riemsdyk), still in their prime, signed to long-term but reasonable cap hits.
So when you ask "who got the best player in the deal", you have to say Philly lost on both trades.
And they flush that and get much younger and cheaper. Voracek and Schenn have the draft pedigree, but not the results yet. So the offense loses some punch right away AND they lose to leadership guys, including the popular team captain.
Is all this so they can sign a 30-year old Russian goalie who was once a waiver wire pickup in 2007? The extra cap space is useful and they get a top 10 draft pick, but it's not like they dumped some aging veterans to rebuild. Carter and Richards are only 26!
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Post by franko on Jun 23, 2011 16:12:46 GMT -5
give up ~11 takes back ~ 6 with Bryz.
don't like it myself [just for the money] but then look at PG who has made some stellar deals so far . . . no, check that.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 23, 2011 16:27:52 GMT -5
So then it's Carter and Richards for Bryzgalov, Voracek, Schenn, Simmonds, the #8 pick, a 3rd and not much extra cap space after signing Bryzgalov, Voracek and Simmonds (who are both RFAs), and Schenn's cap hit.
Could work out for them if the kids and the picks pan out, but that may take a couple of years by which time Bryzgalov will be 32/33 years old. This hasn't made them a better team in the short run, but the goalie situation was a disaster for them when it counted, and I do admire Holmgren's decisiveness.
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 23, 2011 16:52:23 GMT -5
Definitely not a GM who is afraid to stick it all out there. And kudos to Flyer ownership for signing off on such drastic changes. Definitely no "stay the course" types over there.
It will either be the most brilliant example of a rebuild-on-the-fly since... well, Holmgren's last rebuild-on-the-fly, or it will be a total flop. They still have a solid defense core, and now an excellent (regular season) goalie. Up front is there a team with better potential? Van Riemsdyke, Giroux, Simmonds, Schenn and Voracek along with the 8th overall pick in a draft that is consider eight deep?
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 23, 2011 17:07:33 GMT -5
Can't remember seeing a draft like this with so many big names and top picks moving about. Carter and Richards traded, Bryzgalov traded, 8th overall traded, with speculation of Philly not done. Rumours of Regehr going to Buffalo, Smyth to Edmonton, Colorado dangling their #1 pick for top goalie, Leafs after Stastny, Islanders looking to trade 5th overall pick. Busy next 2 days
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Post by HFTO on Jun 23, 2011 17:12:30 GMT -5
Woah! is an understatement on paper a great on the fly rebuild but possibly a step backwards in the very short term so everything better pan out especially in net where the Bryz pretty much sucked pond water in the playoffs...9 years is a massive gamble.Got to love the boldness at times I wish we saw it in Habsland but given how we can't make a good deal a blockbuster would send us back another ten years like the Roy trade.
It'll be fun to see if there is a reaction to this deal.
HFTO
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Post by Skilly on Jun 23, 2011 17:19:24 GMT -5
According to Darren Dreger, the only reason Mike Richards is not a Toronto Maple Leaf is because Burke did not want to part with Nikolai Kumelin.  Toronto offered a draft package along with Nazim Kadri. Philly wanted Kumelin in the deal and Toronto balked .. Philly said they would get back to Toronto, and never called back because LA called and gave them the package they wanted. This is one trade we had no chance at .... a young third line (Simmonds, Schenn, Kadri, Kumelin ... all third liners in my opinion, with a little potential to maybe be a second line injury fill in) with some NHL experience .... we'd have to give up Eller, and something else. No way. +++++++++++++++++++ So when Richards is calling Subban "a joke" , "disrespectful" , and other choice words he is a veteran with lots of leadership? And yet Philly trades their captain and their assistant captain, their #1 and #2 scoring stars .... where is the media questioning his leadership now? |
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 23, 2011 17:27:37 GMT -5
Leafs had that kind of a chance to acquire Richards they best took it and ran. Not too often can get those kind of players. Kumelin decent player but I would not hold up Richards for him. Kadri is unproven and stumbled from when he was drafted.
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Post by Marvin on Jun 23, 2011 17:31:54 GMT -5
Kadri and Schenn are both unproven and wild cards. I'll take Symonds and his grit over Kumelin any day. I think the Flyers lose out by trading Richards, but what LA gave in return is better than what they could have gotten from TO.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 23, 2011 17:32:17 GMT -5
Kulemin getting in the way of the Leafs having a chance at Richards? That seems so counter-intuitive coming from Burke.
Oh well, at least those two forwards are now out of the East.
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Post by jkr on Jun 23, 2011 17:52:35 GMT -5
Leafs had that kind of a chance to acquire Richards they best took it and ran. Not too often can get those kind of players. Kumelin decent player but I would not hold up Richards for him. Kadri is unproven and stumbled from when he was drafted. It's hard to believe that Burke passed on Richards to keep Kuleiman. Richards seems to fit Burke's mold perfectly. Either this is not true or Burke is just stupid. I can see lots of Leaf fans reading this & doing face palms. |
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Post by CentreHice on Jun 23, 2011 17:53:54 GMT -5
Did Philly contact the Habs....or vice-versa? Imagine Richards on the same roster as Subban?  |
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Post by HFTO on Jun 23, 2011 17:57:14 GMT -5
Thats almost unbelievable that they balked at that to get a centre they desperately needed but I'm glad they struckout just the same.
The one thing on Bryzgalov is he ain't no spring chicken at 31 so if he doesn't produce or injuries creep in he's still a gamble especially at those dollars.
HFTO
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 23, 2011 18:06:40 GMT -5
Thats almost unbelievable that they balked at that to get a centre they desperately needed but I'm glad they struckout just the same. The one thing on Bryzgalov is he ain't no spring chicken at 31 so if he doesn't produce or injuries creep in he's still a gamble especially at those dollars. HFTO A nine year deal for a 31 year old goalie. Hmmmm. |
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 23, 2011 18:23:27 GMT -5
Rumour has it now Flyers plan on offering a huge contract to Stamkos. With the addition of Schenn, Voracek and 8th overall they would be in position to lose 4 first round picks.
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Post by Skilly on Jun 23, 2011 18:48:46 GMT -5
Thats almost unbelievable that they balked at that to get a centre they desperately needed but I'm glad they struckout just the same. The one thing on Bryzgalov is he ain't no spring chicken at 31 so if he doesn't produce or injuries creep in he's still a gamble especially at those dollars. HFTO Dreger thinks that Burke is going to pony up 6.5 million per season for Brad Richards now ... he says Burke doesnt think he is worth 7 million. If Brad Richards wants 7 million, than PG start offering ... |
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Post by blny on Jun 23, 2011 18:58:11 GMT -5
You go for a ride on your motorcycle, and this is what you miss ...
Two eye opening deals to be sure. Carter, not so much a surprise, but Richards sure is. To have them both go on the same day is nothing short of remarkable.
Grading on who got the best player, Philly loses both trades easily - for now. I think Schenn is going to be a great player. I don't see him as a physical center though. IMO, he replaces Carter. Voracek is a quality two way player. I think he will end up being a Plekanec type.
From Columbus' pov, I'm not convinced Carter is the right fit. He's a shooting center. A goal scorer. He's not a playmaker, or a set up man. It will be interesting to see how he fits in.
This trade says one thing loud and clear to me. This is Giroux's team.
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Post by halihab on Jun 23, 2011 19:04:28 GMT -5
Was watching Bob McCown on Sportsnet, he had on Al Morganti, who covers the Flyers on. He says that there is about a 70% in favor of the trade reaction from the fans. Apparently they have been calling Richards and Carter out for a while. There is not a good dressing room in Philly.
They (fans) really came down hard on Richards after the Boston series.
When I look at this trade my initial reaction is like the majority - "What the F*&%" I think they are passing the torch over to Giroux and Van Riemsdyk. They got three excellent young players in return and 3 top draft picks. Not bad work Holmgren.
MacLean (sportsnet) now says he would be shocked if Philly doesn't sign Brad Richards, now that they have the cap room.
In the end, who would you prefer. Voracek, Bryzgalov, Schenn, Simmonds, 3 draft picks, and Brad Richards or Carter and Richards.
I have to hand it to Holmgren, he's got guts.
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Post by blny on Jun 23, 2011 19:26:58 GMT -5
I'll add to, and confirm, what you're posting hali. hfboards fans are mixed. Many are citing off ice activities as the single reason for the trades. Apparently, Carter leads the party crew.
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Post by drkcloud on Jun 23, 2011 19:29:21 GMT -5
Rumour has it now Flyers plan on offering a huge contract to Stamkos. With the addition of Schenn, Voracek and 8th overall they would be in position to lose 4 first round picks. Whether Stamkos or Richards, this is very slick ( a la Pollock). Nice moves by Holmgren. But hey we got a plan too......... don't we? |
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Post by franko on Jun 23, 2011 20:36:53 GMT -5
Philly has a good young team.
do they have a leader? perhaps.
do they have a goalie? not so sure about that.
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Post by Andrew on Jun 23, 2011 21:08:52 GMT -5
In the end, who would you prefer. Voracek, Bryzgalov, Schenn, Simmonds, 3 draft picks, and Brad Richards or Carter and Richards. I have to hand it to Holmgren, he's got guts. My first thought also: that they would follow up by signing Brad Richards. If so, the Flyers are smart in using their status as popular UFA destination to their advantage. Mike Richards, for Brad Richards, Schenn, and Simmonds is a way of restocking for the future while not losing any offensive depth at present. It'll be interesting to see how Schenn turns out. He's been one of the more hyped draft picks in recent memory, in terms of value by GMs. |
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Post by Skilly on Jun 23, 2011 21:23:46 GMT -5
I dont think they have the room to sign Brad Richards .... they have to decide between Bobrovsky and Leighton, but that will only give them about 1.5 million more ... and that means they have about 9 million dollars to spend and 17 players under contract
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Post by seventeen on Jun 23, 2011 21:56:12 GMT -5
Wow, what can you say? Holmgren either has ice in his veins or ice on his brain. I kinda like Simmonds, I really like Voracek, and I'm not a big fan of Schenn as I didn't see the talent level in the WJC that I was expecting. On the other hand, Carter?.....great hands, but it seems he has a less than austere locker room attitude and may not be afraid of the 9th commandment. But Richards? Regardless of his rather silly holier than thou attitude about PK, this guy is a warrior. If you go back over the important goals scored by Philly over the last 8 years, I bet you find Richards' name involved in a high percentage of them. I think LA got a good one. They saw their SC hopes die when Kopitar got hurt and really wanted to pick up their centre depth, without having to wait for Schenn or someone else to develop.
It had to be an attitude matter, cause they have a good core of forwards, and needed the CAP space of course. When you have to make deals to free up CAP space you usually lose (unless of course, you're dealing with BG). Sometimes those young guys just don't turn out as hoped. If I'm Philly, I'm looking at improving the D. Pronger and Timmonen, two core dmen are really aging and will need to be replaced...soon.
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Post by PTH on Jun 23, 2011 22:00:34 GMT -5
I'll add to, and confirm, what you're posting hali. hfboards fans are mixed. Many are citing off ice activities as the single reason for the trades. Apparently, Carter leads the party crew. I was thinking along the same lines, though in my case I thought the famous locker-room turmoil they had, between Pronger and Richards, has been settled in Pronger's favor. Still, I'm surprised to see the team that was able to come back from a 3-0 deficit to win a series get essentially disbanded... |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 23, 2011 22:13:24 GMT -5
I'll add to, and confirm, what you're posting hali. hfboards fans are mixed. Many are citing off ice activities as the single reason for the trades. Apparently, Carter leads the party crew. I was thinking along the same lines, though in my case I thought the famous locker-room turmoil they had, between Pronger and Richards, has been settled in Pronger's favor. Still, I'm surprised to see the team that was able to come back from a 3-0 deficit to win a series get essentially disbanded... I think Holmgren just ripped the heart and soul out of his team. But, IMHO, he put himself in this spot when he tendered the contracts he did. How will this affect the conference standings ... Cheers. |
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