Perezhogin Suspended One Year

[clan]

BadCompany said:

There does exist, of course, the possibility that Gainey agrees with the suspension.

Doesn't leave much doubt to me that Perezhoghin knew where he was swinging. Perhaps not in the face, but he certainly wasn't going for the shin-pads.



No wonder he used his stick,as he is a MIDGET [in the picture ]compared to opposition.
He looks like a scrawny clone of Stickboy Riberio.

[larek]

Hello Clan, havnt heard from you in a while, Ya i agree he looks awfully small! Thats the problem with some of the prospects ! Too dam small would like to see a 6ft 3 or so 220 pder !!

[Cranky]

BadCompany said:

I don't think that's true either. Large companies will often deal with several different unions, and one union being on strike does not necessarily mean that the others are. However, if you are fired from one division, its unlikely that you will be hired in another.

For example, Air Canada mechanics versus Air Canada Ticket takers.



Again, you are assuming they are other separate entities, which legally I am not sure they are. If I am an airline pilot, and I fly drunk, I'll get fired or suspended from Air Canada. Just because WestJet doesn't hire me doesn't mean I have any legal rights to sue.

Again, professional hockey is an entertainment business. Perezhoghin broke the rules. Its written into his contract, into the CBA, and I'm going to assume the AHL CBA as well, or its equivalent, that he must abide by any decision rendered by the commissioner. If, as you say, he is effectively being "fired" then I think he will be hard pressed to convince anyone it was a wrongful dismissal, given the stick in the face and all.



Apparently they do. They banned McSorely for a year, effectively ending his career, and they didn't seem all that concerned about him suing anybody. In fact, he was banned from playing in the English league as well, with nary a lawyer in sight.

I'd forget the "legal" angle guys, it ain't gonna happen.

If backroom deals is done then I don't see Perez pursuing legal action.

However.....

Just because WestJet doesn't hire me doesn't mean I have any legal rights to sue.

You are dead wrong about the legal aspect.

If you are more qualified for the job then another candidate and you were not hired because of secret agreement or cooperation, you can sue the living daylights out of them.

There is ZERO argument that Perez has a right to earn a living in his chosen profession. Basically it comes down to this. Company (organization) A has a right to terminate any employee subject to compensation or prior agreement for that employee. A company does not have a right to prevent ANY employee from providing his services to other companies OTHER then transmitting trade secrets or confidential information.

How do I know? I have signed a few of them, currently under one of them and have one person signed back to my company. I am not guessing here. Trying to restrict the right of Perez to find employment elsewhere is ILLIGAL. End of story.

If Buttman wants to take on American and Canadian labor laws AND the UN, sure, go for it. He will be SCREWED to the wall.

Even funnier.....

If Buttman want to go down that route, Perez can challange a whack of the restrictions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. if you want to rock the boat, might as well threaten to blow a hole in it to get everybodies attention.

What is important....

Who exactly is looking out for Perez's rights? From the fact that there was no appeal made by Gainey, it sounds to me that there was backroom dealing with this issue. Perez MUST seek outside legal council and NOT depend on Gainey's to defend his interests. I have no doubt that Gainey will let Perez hang out to dry if it suits him.

Secondly.....

This is a issue of fairness. Why should Perez agree to be the scapegoat so the AHL and NHL look good? It is not fair to him, in fact, he can claim that he was taken advantage off because he lacked the means and the knowledge to properly defend himself. More lawsuits there.

Justice would be served if Perez is suspended for 40 games. Stafford fir 20 games. The officials get fired for incompetence. Boohoozzy gets 40 games for premeditated attack.

[Skilly]

clan said:

BadCompany said:

There does exist, of course, the possibility that Gainey agrees with the suspension.

Doesn't leave much doubt to me that Perezhoghin knew where he was swinging. Perhaps not in the face, but he certainly wasn't going for the shin-pads.



No wonder he used his stick,as he is a MIDGET [in the picture ]compared to opposition.
He looks like a scrawny clone of Stickboy Riberio.

In photography perspective is everything. Just because he is looking towards his shoulder doesn't mean he saw him. I believe the kid until someone shows me an angle of whatthe kid actually saw. Since they haven't come up with contact lense cameras for NHL player's yet (get working on that guys at FOX), then I believe Perezhogin.

As for the midget comment. Well I prefer little people, the term you use is derogatory, but 6'0", 190 is not small. And at 20 years old, he will fillout even more in 5 years time. This suspension gives him time to bulk out if nothing else.

[patate]

clan said:

BadCompany said:

From this angle, it looks like he was going to hit his back. Maybe he was surprised when he saw Stafford get up but could not stop his swing, momentum you know... On the replay we see him take a up-down swing, I myself would go for a left-right swing if I was aiming the head. Just my 2 cents.

[Cranky]

Using my well honed CIA skills, I was able to blow this photograph so all can see our very own axe murderer.

Notice clearly that at this point, all it would have been is a arm slash.

[BadCompany]

HabsAddict said:

Just because WestJet doesn't hire me doesn't mean I have any legal rights to sue.

You are dead wrong about the legal aspect.

If you are more qualified for the job then another candidate and you were not hired because of secret agreement or cooperation, you can sue the living daylights out of them.

That's assuming there is a secret agreement though. WestJet may simple decide that I'm a drunk pilot, and we don't need those kinds of people in our employment. Can't sue somebody for that, can you?

What if there is no secret agreement though? Maybe the head of the IIHF is sitting there thinking "here's a guy who clobbered another guy in the face with his stick, he's been suspended for a year, and in another year he will head back to North America anyways. I get him for one year, and one year only, during which time I have to explain to everyone why I let a guy who was deemed too visicious to play in big, bad, North America, play in Europe. In the meantime, I annoy the crap out of a partner that I have legal, working contracts with, contracts that govern the transfew of players. They PAY us to get our players. What if they simply stop doing that? What if they say 'you don't honor our league, we're not going to honor yours, and we're simply going to offer your players more money, and there is nothing you can do about it.' Do I want to go to war with the NHL over a guy who committed what many hockey experts are calling the sickest thing they have ever seen on the ice? Is he a superstar? Will he bring in more fans? Positive press? Or will he be too much of a headache, for the 22 goals he may or may not score? Why do I need the aggravation?"

You can't sue somebody for deciding it just ain't worth the effort...

Guys, Perezhoghin broke the rules. The AHL is well within their rights to do whatever they please with him, including suspending or firing him. Any company in the world has that right. Similarily, Gary Betteman and the NHL are well within their rights to refuse Perezhoghin entrance into the NHL. Its written into the CBA, negotiated by the union, and its on the contract Perezhogin signed. There are "good images" clauses in the CBA, and the standard player contracts, which give the league and the commissioner the power to enforce disciplinary action, including not letting somebody into the league.

If Perezhogin is to sue anybody, it would be his agent and the NHLPA, for negotiating these clauses.

(e) to conduct himself on and off the rink according to the highest standards of honesty, morality, fair play and
sportsmanship, and to refrain from conduct detrimental to the best interest of the Club, the League or professional hockey generally...

The Player further agrees that the Club may carry out and put into effect any order or ruling of the League or its Commissioner for his suspension or expulsion and that in the event of suspension his salary shall cease for the duration thereof and that in the event of expulsion this Contract shall terminate forthwith.

What does it have to do with his LEGAL RIGHT to earn a living in hockey? If the AHL and the NHL will not let him play in THEIR league, fine, but if they try to impede his play in other leagues, then he has a RIGHT to sue them for all they are worth.

For crying out loud, this is not some axe murderer or child molester, this is a 20 year old kid who made a mistake and has been railroaded and excessively punished for public relation reasons. Some of us are not going to acquiesce to Buttmans and Andrews God like powers to punish as they see fit. Some of us are not going to nod a slavish approval for the “good looks” of the AHL and NHL.

A defenseless kid that is railroaded and punished by powerful man? Where is the fairness in that? Where is the justice in that? This transcends hockey and falls into the REAL world where we must seek fairness and justice.

“Neither fraud, nor deceit, nor malice had yet interfered with truth and plain dealing” Sancho, pack your bags…..

[JFM]

Glenn Healy is now on my broadcaster ignore list. During the 2nd intermission he had a mini debate with Toronto based journalist Steve Simmons regarding Perez' suspension. Healy was practically ranting that Perez should've been suspended from playing in North America permanently! Saying that hiding behind a "mask of skill" doesn't excuse the fact that he used a metal bar to bash a defenseless player's skull. He didn't even bother to acknowledge the fact that Perez was attacked first. Simmons even said that the suspension was too long! (coming from a Toronto journalist no less! ) The rest of the cast of the show were incredulous with Healy's opinion. Anyways Healy's a biased dork who'll join Millen on my "crap" list.

[blaise]

An employer has the right to suspend or dismiss an employee for misconduct on the job. In most circumstances that misconduct would be judged criminal behavior, and I hope for his sake Perezhogin doesn't go to prison. He doesn't have a leg to stand on if he demands immediate reinstatement. His suspension has a finite term. While he is denied his salary during that term his employers are also denied his services.

[CentreHice]

jkr said:

The remarks could be just for the public record.

Exactly. If anyone is speaking with a lawyer, it's Bob Gainey and the Habs.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

BadCompany said:

(e) to conduct himself on and off the rink according to the highest standards of honesty, morality, fair play and
sportsmanship, and to refrain from conduct detrimental to the best interest of the Club, the League or professional hockey generally...

The Player further agrees that the Club may carry out and put into effect any order or ruling of the League or its Commissioner for his suspension or expulsion and that in the event of suspension his salary shall cease for the duration thereof and that in the event of expulsion this Contract shall terminate forthwith.

If the first paragraph of the above clause were to to be strictly applied the NHL would have a good number of its players watching hockey on TV rather than playing.

The League referred to in the above clause is the NHL. Perezhogin's earned his livelihood in the AHL, within whose jurisdiction his actions and the ruling regarding his punishment took place.

Perezhogin was not suspended or expelled by the NHL.

Andrews likely scape-goated Perezhogin at Bettman's urging.

[Cranky]

Mr. said:

If the first paragraph of the above clause were to to be strictly applied the NHL would have a good number of its players watching hockey on TV rather than playing.

The League referred to in the above clause is the NHL. Perezhogin's earned his livelihood in the AHL, within whose jurisdiction his actions and the ruling regarding his punishment took place.

Perezhogin was not suspended or expelled by the NHL.

Andrews likely scape-goated Perezhogin at Bettman's urging.

EXACTLY!

Perez suspension is nothing more then PR related. They are making an EXAMPLE of a 20 year old KID who is defenseless, yes, DEFENSELESS against an army of powerful man and their acquiescing cronies. NO WAY! I don't know about you people but to me it REEKS of injustice!

Puck it, I for one will not stand for it and it's time for “money where your mouth is”……I am talking to my labour lawyer on Monday......and......

A Hamilton I will go,
A Hamilton I will go,
High ho the cheerio
An evil lawyer I will bring...

P.S. Anybody else who wants to help find justice for Perez against the persecution of powerful man and their cronies can send me an e-mail or a pm.

My personal e-mail address is [e-mail]

[spotter]

Although it is understandable, I do not see how we can not differeniate between the AHL and the NHL. What has transpired in the Perezhogin/Stafford affair is an AHL internal matter. It should have nothing to do with the NHL, the IIHL or any other ice hockey league. Certainly, goodwill exisits between leagues, but to suggest Bertuzzi of the NHL will get a severe suspension based on Perezhogin's of the AHL seems to be patently absurd.

Dave Andrews is to the AHL what Gary Bettman is to the NHL. Mr. Andrews has the right to make decisions for his league without the sanction of Mr. Bettman and vice versa. If Perezhogin has any recourse, perhaps he ought to seek counsel from the PHPA where Larry Landon is Executive Director and not Bob Goodenow.

Given the circumstances, if Perezhogin is to continue with his career and realize his ambition of playing in the NHL, he will have to serve the better part of his suspension before any concessions are made that would permit him to resume play next season in another league. However, nothing can stop Perezhogin from practising his trade under a well constructed plan. Although a year may seem like a lifetime when you are twenty, in reality, it is not and it will pass and probably quite quickly.

My biggest concern in this entire affair is the appearance of prejudice/bias in the punishment. Perezhogin deserves the suspension, of that I am certain. However, it does not appear as though all the extenuating circumstances were taken into consideration, given his actions seemed completely retaliatory. Unfortunately, with cynicism being the order of the day, desicions of this variety are met with such skepticism and the instigator gets off with a slap on the wrist.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

HabsAddict said:

Using my well honed CIA skills, I was able to blow this photograph so all can see our very own axe murderer.

Notice clearly that at this point, all it would have been is a arm slash.

Note the position of the hands on the stick. That is definitely *not* a "baseball swing".

Where are the photos of Stafford crosschecking Perezhogin in the back with sufficient force to knock him down, and bouncing his stick off Perezhogin's helmet?

This is a photo useful, if one doesn't analyse it, for propaganda purposes against Perezhogin, but it hardly presents the big picture.

A video clip (roughly 20 seconds in length) that covers the sequence of events from the moment that Perezhogin beats Stafford to the puck to nullify an icing call to Perezhogin's slash would be objective.

[Cranky]

Mr. said:

Note the position of the hands on the stick. That is definitely *not* a "baseball swing".

Where are the photos of Stafford crosschecking Perezhogin in the back with sufficient force to knock him down, and bouncing his stick off Perezhogin's helmet?

This is a photo useful, if one doesn't analyse it, for propaganda purposes against Perezhogin, but it hardly presents the big picture.

A video clip (roughly 20 seconds in length) that covers the sequence of events from the moment that Perezhogin beats Stafford to the puck to nullify an icing call to Perezhogin's slash would be objective.

ARE YOU KIDDING? Of course you will not see the pictures of Staffords attempts to dicapitate Perez. That would intefere with the propaganda the AHL and NHL wants us to believe.

Get is straight Mr. Bozo, the AHL has served the public well by suspending this 20 year old axe murderer. Just nod your approval and move on......

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

HabsAddict said:

EXACTLY!

Perez suspension is nothing more then PR related. They are making an EXAMPLE of a 20 year old KID who is defenseless, yes, DEFENSELESS against an army of powerful man and their acquiescing cronies. NO WAY! I don't know about you people but to me it REEKS of injustice!

Puck it, I for one will not stand for it and it's time for “money where your mouth is”……I am talking to my labour lawyer on Monday......and......

A Hamilton I will go,
A Hamilton I will go,
High ho the cheerio
An evil lawyer I will bring...

P.S. Anybody else who wants to help find justice for Perez against the persecution of powerful man and their cronies can send me an e-mail or a pm.

My personal e-mail address is [e-mail]

Hmmm....why this penalty? Why now?

• because a Russian (who's nation stayed out of Iraq) put an American in the hospital?
• because there was a lot of blood?
• because the AHL is a testing ground for innovations adopted by the NHL, and Bettman saw a golden opportunity to avoid having to pass down a landmark ruling in his own league?
• because the retaliator traditionally receives a harsher sentence than the instigator in North American ice hockey (often the latter gets off scot-free)?
• because while lip-service was paid to the events leading up to the incident and to other extenuating circumstances, this is the quality of "justice" one can expect in our society?

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

IIHF mulls Perezhogin's fate

CANADIAN PRESS

PRAGUE — Alexander Perezhogin needs clearance from the International Ice Hockey Federation to play hockey in the Russian league or anywhere in Europe next season.

But his one-year suspension in the American Hockey League would not automatically be honoured by the IIHF.

"This player was signed by the Montreal Canadiens, under the NHL-IIHF agreement," IIHF spokesman Szymon Szemberg said Saturday at the men's world hockey championship. "So if he returns to Russia, then he's a returnee under that agreement, which means his return ticket, so to speak, must go through the IIHF transfer system.

"Now if the AHL makes it clear to us that he's under suspension for a serious offence, the IIHF council would then decide whether or not he would be cleared to be re-admitted to European hockey."

The AHL suspended the 20-year-old native of Kazakhstan for the remainder of the playoffs and the entire 2004-2005 season Friday for his stick-swinging attack on Cleveland Barons defenceman Garrett Stafford during a post-season game April 30.

While it's an AHL suspension, the IIHF regards Perezhogin as an NHLer playing in the minors, and therefore subject to the NHL-IIHF transfer agreement.

But that agreement does not force the IIHF to recognize AHL suspensions.

"We don't necessarily honour any suspensions laid down by the AHL," said Szemberg. "But the IIHF does have a clause in its statutes and by-laws which clearly states that the player whose actions have been detrimental to hockey or to the reputation of hockey can be suspended by the IIHF council."

There are factors that would help Perezhogin's case with the IIHF council. He has no previous history of violent behaviour and was provoked by Stafford before the incident.

That could sway the IIHF council towards clearing Perezhogin to play in the Russian league.

The IIHF council denied suspended NHL tough guy Marty McSorley from playing in England in 2000 following his stick-swinging incident with Donald Brashear.

Perezhogin's suspension is the longest ever handed down by the AHL, which also banned Stafford for six games for his role in the incident.

Perezhogin struck Stafford in the face with a two-handed, baseball-like swing during a playoff game April 30 in Hamilton.

Stafford had first swung his stick at Perezhogin and it glanced off the back of Perezhogin's helmet. Perezhogin retaliated with Stafford on his knees.

Stafford, 24, had convulsions on the ice and was rushed to hospital. He suffered a concussion and a 20-stitch gash. Perezhogin was assessed a match penalty and immediately suspended pending a league review. Stafford is not believed to have suffered any permanent injury.

Hamilton police are conducting a criminal investigation.

Perezhogin was Montreal's first pick, 25th overall, in the 2001 entry draft. He helped Russia win the 2003 world junior title in Halifax.

He was fourth among AHL rookies with 50 points in 77 games with the Bulldogs this season.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

Mr. said:

Hmmm....why this penalty? Why now?

• because a Russian (who's nation stayed out of Iraq) put an American in the hospital?
• because there was a lot of blood?
• because the AHL is a testing ground for innovations adopted by the NHL, and Bettman saw a golden opportunity to avoid having to pass down a landmark ruling in his own league?
• because the retaliator traditionally receives a harsher sentence than the instigator in North American ice hockey (often the latter gets off scot-free)?
• because while lip-service was paid to the events leading up to the incident and to other extenuating circumstances, this is the quality of "justice" one can expect in our society?

Is his name really Perezhogin or is it "bin Perezhogin"? I smell a conspiracy.

[blaise]

Let's not wax conspiratory even it comes to Gary Bettman.

The article identified Perezhogin as being a native of Kazakhstan, not Russia, and Kazakhstan (and Russia, for that matter) assisted America in routing the Taliban in Afghanistan. Also, even someone as naive as George W. Bush realizes that there's no payoff in baiting the Russian bear out of petty spite. The U.S. has belatedly realized it still needs international cooperation. The action of Jimmy Carter in forbidding American athletes from competing in the 1980 Olympics accomplished exactly nothing besides disappointing the athletes who had made personal sacrifices to prepare for the events.

And yes, Perezhogin is a "bin Perezhogin" because he's his father's legitimate son. A little familiarity with Arabic names and culture would help.

[JohnnyVerdun]

BadCompany said:

Guys, Perezhoghin broke the rules. The AHL is well within their rights to do whatever they please with him, including suspending or firing him. Any company in the world has that right.

This is false. Whether I'm disciplined by the College of Physicians and Surgeons, or the National Volleyball Association, it is not the case that they can do "whatever they please". All of these administrative bodies or associations are subject to having their discipline processes judicially reviewed.

[blaise]

JohnnyVerdun said:

This is false. Whether I'm disciplined by the College of Physicians and Surgeons, or the National Volleyball Association, it is not the case that they can do "whatever they please". All of these administrative bodies or associations are subject to having their discipline processes judicially reviewed.

That's not quite right either. The American College of Physicians and Surgeons, the American College of Cardiology, and others like them certify that a physician has met the requirements for board certification on the basis of education, years of experience as a resident in that specialty, and passing the mandated examinations. Disciplinary actions are taken by state medical boards, which can suspend or revoke licenses to practice medicine. A disciplined physician can apply for a license in another state.

[JohnnyVerdun]

Blaise said:

That's not quite right either. The American College of Physicians and Surgeons, the American College of Cardiology, and others like them certify that a physician has met the requirements for board certification on the basis of education, years of experience as a resident in that specialty, and passing the mandated examinations. Disciplinary actions are taken by state medical boards, which can suspend or revoke licenses to practice medicine. A disciplined physician can apply for a license in another state.

What does that have to do with anything? The decisions of those boards, and law societies, and volleyball associations, are often subject to judicial review. Administrative bodies can do all sorts of things, but if they overstep their bounds, or act improperly, their decisions are reviewable....

[blaise]

It has everything to with it in the medical profession. The physician who loses his license has to sue a state medical board--a governmental agency-- to get it back, not the professional association of his specialty.

There are other things that can happen to a physician short of losing his license. He may lose his privileges to place patients in a particular hospital. In that case he or she would have to take legal action against that hospital.

[JohnnyVerdun]

You're incredible.

I don't care who has to be sued. The point was that none of these boards, associations, clubs or other groups can "do whatever they please". Whether it's a self-disciplining body or not, their decisions are subject to review. All you've managed to tell us (not that anybody asked) is who would be sued if Perezhogin were a doctor in Pennsylvania. While your efforts are appreciated, maybe you should wait until somebody asks next time....

[blaise]

JohnnyVerdun said:

You're incredible.

I don't care who has to be sued. The point was that none of these boards, associations, clubs or other groups can "do whatever they please". Whether it's a self-disciplining body or not, their decisions are subject to review. All you've managed to tell us (not that anybody asked) is who would be sued if Perezhogin were a doctor in Pennsylvania. While your efforts are appreciated, maybe you should wait until somebody asks next time....

Glad to be of assistance.

[Habit]

I think this thread is starting to get under everybody's skin!

[PTH]

JohnnyVerdun said:

..... if Perezhogin were a doctor in Pennsylvania. ....

Hey, Zhogin will have to do *something* during that year off, he might just become a doctor (like a good surgeon he has some terrific hands), and who knows, as a surgeon he might get in trouble with a professionnal association.

Stranger things have happened.
(the spontaneous combustion of the mayor of Warsaw comes to mind, along with the time in 15th Century Burgundy when it rained live herring).

[blaise]

PTH said:

Hey, Zhogin will have to do *something* during that year off, he might just become a doctor (like a good surgeon he has some terrific hands), and who knows, as a surgeon he might get in trouble with a professionnal association.

Stranger things have happened.
(the spontaneous combustion of the mayor of Warsaw comes to mind, along with the time in 15th Century Burgundy when it rained live herring).

Perhaps he could work in a cattle slaughterhouse.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

I don't know guys. I have no problem with a stiff suspension, but I feel professional hockey would do itself a favour by instituting a clause where the offending player is out of hockey for the duration of the injury inflicted.

I also feel they might want to come down extremely hard on ALL stick-related offences regardless of how severe the infraction was. Come down hard on slashes, cross-checks, hookings and, of course, high-sticking. Anything that involves the lumber should be in a separate category of penalty. I don't know, five-and-a-game; five-and-a-misconduct ... anything at all that serves a message.

And, of course, for severe penalties like the one in question, suspension without pay for the duration of the injury.

Just my take.

Cheers.

[PTH]

Disgruntled70sHab said:

I don't know guys. I have no problem with a stiff suspension, but I feel professional hockey would do itself a favour by instituting a clause where the offending player is out of hockey for the duration of the injury inflicted.

The problem is that this means punishing the result, and not the intent.

Few high-sticks lead to severe injuries, but the odd one will. I'd try to punish the act and the intent, separately from the result.

The hit that almost killed Savage was pretty much legal, say it's deemed a tad iffy, do we want players taken out of the game for playing it hard ? I'd rather see suspensions based on the act than on the result.

Take 2 crosschecks to the head, one leads to a nasty headache, the other, by another pair of players, leads to a concussion that has severe long-term ramifications on the player who got it. The act was the same, why should the punishment be different ?