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Post by Polarice on Jun 11, 2012 6:33:47 GMT -5
Twitter is alive with rumours that the Habs are offering up Subban for Edmonton's 1st pick so that they would have the 1st and 3rd picks.
Not sure how I feel about this one....would love to have both picks, but to trade Subban would be very difficult!!
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 11, 2012 7:05:11 GMT -5
I can't see that happening. Both Bergevin and Therrien went out of their way to mention Subban as a key part of the team, Bergevin especially. I can't see him then turning around and trading him three weeks later.
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Post by Polarice on Jun 11, 2012 7:12:51 GMT -5
I can't see that happening. Both Bergevin and Therrien went out of their way to mention Subban as a key part of the team, Bergevin especially. I can't see him then turning around and trading him three weeks later. I guess it all depends on how the contract talks are going. |
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 11, 2012 7:18:29 GMT -5
I can't see that happening. Both Bergevin and Therrien went out of their way to mention Subban as a key part of the team, Bergevin especially. I can't see him then turning around and trading him three weeks later. I guess it all depends on how the contract talks are going. Back when Jose Theodore was holding the organization over the barrel I floated a similar, Machiavellian idea. If a player thinks he holds all the cards, but you know that player really wants to stay in Montreal, then you simply leak a couple of rumors that you are looking at trading said player. To some backwater place. Might scare the player into telling his agent to not be such a hard-a**. That Subban loves Montreal is a given. He just spent the weekend here basking in the F1 party, and by all accounts he had a whale of time. I think he would be devastated to be exiled to Edmonton. We also know he's a Twitter freak. So what better way to play with his head than to Twitter him to the Oilers? It's just crazy enough to work! |
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Post by franko on Jun 11, 2012 7:55:03 GMT -5
I hear Toronto is going to counter that offer with Komisarek . . . er, Gardiner, er . . . never mind.
Not sure that I want to give away [OK, it isn't a give away] PK and weaken our d, though that is one heck of an upgrade up front.
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Post by Gogie on Jun 11, 2012 7:58:00 GMT -5
I sure hope this is just pure fantasy, but I guess I could see it happening. If the Habs can be sure of getting Murray plus the forward they really want in exchange (effectively) for Subban maybe they would entertain this idea.
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Post by CentreHice on Jun 11, 2012 8:14:12 GMT -5
I've read that, on L'Antichambre, Therrien was a harsh critic of Subban's play. Now he becomes coach and calls PK a thoroughbred. What else can he say?
If Subban isn't Therrien's type of player....and they think his cache can get Edmonton's #1 pick....you never know. But if Therrien thought he was on thin ice before....he'd better know how to swim. He just might "lose" Price in the process.
Gretzky was traded after winning his 4th Cup in 5 years....even though it was for different reasons. Anyway, nothing would surprise me.
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Post by Polarice on Jun 11, 2012 8:18:25 GMT -5
I sure hope this is just pure fantasy, but I guess I could see it happening. If the Habs can be sure of getting Murray plus the forward they really want in exchange (effectively) for Subban maybe they would entertain this idea. That's what I was thinking, but not the case....Habs were interested in drafting two forwards and not Murray....if you can believe it. But it was from two good sources on twitter, not just people making up rumours. I kind of agree with BC.....it could be a way to get Subbans agent to make a better deal. |
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Post by franko on Jun 11, 2012 8:19:18 GMT -5
I don't see Edmonton doing it.
Optics: bad.
Cost: bad [Edmonton is cheap frugal; they can maybe squeak into the playoffs with and upgrade in goal and a few more goals themselves at the same time as having a guy on an entry level contract . . . "we are doing the best for the future of the team and could not give up a number one pick for a d-man that may or may not live up to his potential".
If they wanted to do it it would be PK plus.
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Post by jkr on Jun 11, 2012 8:30:03 GMT -5
I've read that, on L'Antichambre, Therrien was a harsh critic of Subban's play. Now he becomes coach and calls PK a thoroughbred. What else can he say? If Subban isn't Therrien's type of player....and they think his cache can get Edmonton's #1 pick....you never know. But if Therrien thought he was on thin ice before....he'd better know how to swim. He just might "lose" Price in the process. Gretzky was traded after winning his 4th Cup in 5 years....even though it was for different reasons. Anyway, nothing would surprise me. Enough of trading players to please a coach. There was enough of that crap during Martin's tenure where players were moved for next to nothing. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 11, 2012 9:32:48 GMT -5
I'm hoping this is just a bogus Twitter rumour. Subban is sorting out what issues he has and he's going to be a star in the future. We can't afford to let this kid go. We need stars in Montreal in a HUGE way and, besides, Trevor Timmins has been rung through the ringer enough.
Cheers.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 11, 2012 10:06:22 GMT -5
This seems like more of a "made in Edmonton" twitter rumour than one made in Montreal. There are lots of fans and media folks here who would love to lure Subban away from Montreal, as it would immediately improve their biggest weakness. They have been very open about this for ages. As the draft approaches, it is not surprising to see it get legs again. Oil fans and media want management to address their immediate gap on defense. They also see that most of the top prospects are forwards. GMs pick based on BPA, impatient fans and media was to address need through the draft.
I don't see anything happening on this front. I think we have enough smart folk around now that can properly assess talent and know what it takes to build a proper hockey team. That wasn't the case not too long ago though. Glad that's over.
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Post by blny on Jun 11, 2012 10:17:31 GMT -5
I can't see much truth to this, though nothing would surprise me much.
In reality, I think it would take more than Subban to get the first overall away from Edmonton. Not Subban and our third mind you, but likely PK and at least one second.
Would I do it? Not this year. For Nathan MacKinnon, I'd consider it strongly. It would still be hard to pull the trigger though. That level of personality, combined with huge talent, and he's a defenceman? Hard to let that go.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 11, 2012 10:46:07 GMT -5
In reality, I think it would take more than Subban to get the first overall away from Edmonton. It shouldn't. You think it would cost Subban AND another pick to trade up to #1? Subban is an elite talent. He's young and cheap and has a great future ahead of him. Personally, I think it's the other way around. If I was Tambellini and I had the chance to trade the #1 pick, say Ryan Murray, straight up for PK Subban I'd do it in a heartbeat. PK gets some bad press for being cocky and a bit undisciplined, but he's a world class talent and every GM knows that. Anyway it won't happen because there is no chance we're dealing Subban. Even for Yakupov. Just too much risk there compared to what you know you have with Subban. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 11, 2012 10:54:03 GMT -5
I think we have enough smart folk around now that can properly assess talent and know what it takes to build a proper hockey team. That wasn't the case not too long ago though. Glad that's over. Well, there are certainly a lot of good hockey men as it is now in Montreal. And if what I'm reading is correct, I dare say those good hockey men are forming one heck of a management team. Dictation will take a back-seat to facilitation. Decisions will be made from a collaborative process rather than the unilateral process we've been privy to for some years now. Just on that turnaround, alone, I'm waiting to see what this management team does as a group. They're being scrutinized as it is right now and their first major decision will have to be a good one. If they trade PK to Edmonton then they're looking at the 1st and 3rd picks overall. This isn't a bad thing, but I'd hate to lose this kid. The price of business is high, though. Cheers. |
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Post by madhabber on Jun 11, 2012 11:27:07 GMT -5
Gorges-Markov (Could still be half a Markov)
Emelin-Diaz
Weber-Kaberle
St-Denis
Nathan McKinnon lottery, here we come.
Does this make sense to anyone. That defense is horrid. Unless we are sure of signing Suter or trading something else for a #1D, PK is here to stay whether Therrien likes him or not. Therrien couldn't be that stupid. What is he gonna do, coax Bill Lindsay out of retirement and put him on defense.
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Post by jkr on Jun 11, 2012 11:32:08 GMT -5
Gorges-Markov (Could still be half a Markov) Emelin-Diaz Weber-Kaberle St-Denis Nathan McKinnon lottery, here we come. Does this make sense to anyone. That defense is horrid. Unless we are sure of signing Suter or trading something else for a #1D, PK is here to stay whether Therrien likes him or not. Therrien couldn't be that stupid. What is he gonna do, coax Bill Lindsay out of retirement and put him on defense. If Bergevin hired Therrien knowing there was a problem between him & Subban then I would lose even more confidence in this hire. |
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 11, 2012 11:45:13 GMT -5
I would be willing to trade a Beaulieu for the first. If we are doing a complete rebuild I'd offer up Markov. I think MB actions at the draft, will give a good indication of which way he is going to remake this team.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 11, 2012 11:48:59 GMT -5
I would be willing to trade a Beaulieu for the first. If we are doing a complete rebuild I'd offer up Markov. I think MB actions at the draft, will give a good indication of which way he is going to remake this team. I thought about this as well, TD. Could they be swayed into taking one of either Beaulieu or Tinordi. And since they're unproven assets Bergevin would probably have to sweeten the pot a bit more. Not saying this is so, though. Cheers. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jun 11, 2012 11:54:49 GMT -5
...I don't think we'll be seeing much of the Swiss shrimps next year...
One thing Bergevin knows is that he's got a load of very good dmen coming to the farm next season. One of whom, Beaulieu, was already pretty close to making the team last year. Beaulieu, Tinordi, Dietz, Ellis... That is very very good...
Up front it’s another story… A waaaaaaay less interesting one. From a purely asset management perspective, turning Subban into a #1 overall pick would be brilliant.
If Markov’s knee holds, we know he can be a #1 guy. If Kaberle gets serious and puts himself in real shape, he can take on 2nd pair duty. You sign a cheap vet like Bouillon for the 3rd pair and get him to be the big brother of an up’n comer.
Markov – Gorges
Kaberle – Emelin
Bouillon – Beaulieu
St-Denis
Not immediately brilliant I know but as you add in our other great D prospects over the years, you’re building something that should look pretty darn good in a couple of years and if you can land Yakupov AND Galchenyuk this year, than by all means in 3 years you have a contender in your hands with strong offense AND strong Defense.
Plus, how does Markov feel being second fiddle to Subban? We know for a fact that we have a situation there. Those 2 are not best of friends far from it… And what if Bergevin and Therrien spoke to a few players and that the bad feeling on Subban is generalized among the team?
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 11, 2012 12:12:12 GMT -5
Up front it’s another story… A waaaaaaay less interesting one. From a purely asset management perspective, turning Subban into a #1 overall pick would be brilliant. I disagree. At least as far as this year is concerned. I wouldn't trade PK Subban for Nail Yakupov. I just wouldn't. If this were Nathan MacKinnon, then maybe. I'm not saying I wouldn't trade Subban, but they return would need to be compelling and I just don't see it in this years draft. And just because we have a lot of D prospects now in now way assures us that even one of these guys will be as good as Subban, who is one of the most dynamic dmen in the NHL right now and will only get better as he refines his game. |
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Post by blny on Jun 11, 2012 12:26:55 GMT -5
In reality, I think it would take more than Subban to get the first overall away from Edmonton. It shouldn't. You think it would cost Subban AND another pick to trade up to #1? Subban is an elite talent. He's young and cheap and has a great future ahead of him. I should clarify. Not PK, our #3 and a pick. The concept near the top was picking at 1 AND 3. So, if we're keeping the third, I think it would take more than PK alone to get the first overall. |
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Post by madhabber on Jun 11, 2012 12:54:10 GMT -5
...I don't think we'll be seeing much of the Swiss shrimps next year... One thing Bergevin knows is that he's got a load of very good dmen coming to the farm next season. One of whom, Beaulieu, was already pretty close to making the team last year. Beaulieu, Tinordi, Dietz, Ellis... That is very very good... Up front it’s another story… A waaaaaaay less interesting one. From a purely asset management perspective, turning Subban into a #1 overall pick would be brilliant. If Markov’s knee holds, we know he can be a #1 guy. If Kaberle gets serious and puts himself in real shape, he can take on 2nd pair duty. You sign a cheap vet like Bouillon for the 3rd pair and get him to be the big brother of an up’n comer. Markov – Gorges Kaberle – Emelin Bouillon – Beaulieu St-Denis Not immediately brilliant I know but as you add in our other great D prospects over the years, you’re building something that should look pretty darn good in a couple of years and if you can land Yakupov AND Galchenyuk this year, than by all means in 3 years you have a contender in your hands with strong offense AND strong Defense. Plus, how does Markov feel being second fiddle to Subban? We know for a fact that we have a situation there. Those 2 are not best of friends far from it… And what if Bergevin and Therrien spoke to a few players and that the bad feeling on Subban is generalized among the team? Sorry. Have to disagree here. You've got 2 great big ifs there. If Markov's knee holds up and if Kaberle is serious. Those are huge Ifs. I don't think Markov's knee holding up is the big problem here. Although it is still and will always remain a question mark. The big if from what I can see is If he regains his past form from before the injuries. We've all seen at the end of the year. He did not look good. He made some good plays on offense but on defense, it was labourious and at times, ugly. Sure, we gave him a pass, because he was out so long and the injuries and surgeries. Wait til next year. The season is lost anyways, let him play and get some time in. He should be better next year. But what if he isn't. In my eyes, he wasn't a good enough NHL D last year if we were to be a playoff contender. If he is better this year, great that's what we're all hoping for. If he isn't, I don't see him lasting on the roster. Kaberle looked Traverse-like in his own zone last year. Can we honestly hope to make the playoffs if he plays the same this year. I don't care if he says he'll do better next year, Gomez said the same thing and look at the results. He's gonna have to prove it and so far his track record isn't good. We've only had a small sample size, but he needs to improve and at his age, it's more likely to be a decline then an improvement. Like em or not, our 2 swiss friends are part of the team until they are sent out. They will be part of the lineup on openning night or 1 will be the 7th. At this point I have more faith in them then Kaberle (unless he turns things around). Moreso Diaz. BTW Dietz still has a year of junior eligibility. The other incoming youths, I don't see in the lineup in October. Subban played 2 games in his first year of pro, plus playoffs. I see Beaulieu following the same path. I think he has too much to learn before he dons the sainte flannelle as a regular. I actually wouldn't be surprise to see one of the other 2, Tinordi or Ellis play their first NHL games before Beaulieu, but at this point I consider them all at the same level. Defensively, last year, I believe we were okay. No better, just okay. The forwards, though were the ones that under-achieved. The first line did great. Pleks line was too cold too long and too often. And the other 2 didn't bring enough. Pleks, Bourque, Eller, Gionta are the 4 that can give more. No Gomez should help Eller right away. If Beaulieu, Tinordi and Ellis all had 1 season of NHL experience under their belts, then I could see us trading Subban. But at this point, we need these guys to develop first before being thrown in the fire. The one good point though. Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Pateryn, Nash, St-Denis. All these guys are gonna be playing hard to leapfrog each other to the NHL. That should speed things up a little. |
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Post by Skilly on Jun 11, 2012 13:02:55 GMT -5
The idea of getting the first and the third overall is very tempting ... but you don't trade Subban to get it.
Open up the cupboards to the Oilers, but Subban, Pacioretty and Price are in the fridge.
If they are willing to take Beaulieu, then pull the trigger. Heck Beaulieu+2nd+Gallagher .... but Subban stays here.
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Post by madhabber on Jun 11, 2012 13:16:31 GMT -5
The idea of getting the first and the third overall is very tempting ... but you don't trade Subban to get it. Open up the cupboards to the Oilers, but Subban, Pacioretty and Price are in the fridge. If they are willing to take Beaulieu, then pull the trigger. Heck Beaulieu+2nd+Gallagher .... but Subban stays here. I could see something like that. Subban has to stay, but the others are not NHLers yet. I don't see the Oilers going for it, because they want help now, but that is all we can do. |
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Post by halihab on Jun 11, 2012 13:16:56 GMT -5
IMO - Subban is not going anywhere - not even for a #1 pick. He is the corner stone of our D. I would have to say - talent wise, Subban is probably better then all 3 of the top picks put together.
Subban, Pacs and Price are untouchable.
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Post by franko on Jun 11, 2012 13:56:11 GMT -5
Markov – Gorges Kaberle – Emelin Bouillon – Beaulieu St-Denis Boy, Doc, that is just a scary scenario. It is scary seeing Kaberle on the team in the first place; and now he's on the second pairing? His money puts him there but not his talent. What ever happened to the Habs having a great d? Now we're using everyone else's cast-offs to bolster what we have. Cut to the heart, that's what I am. If Markov’s knee holds, we know he can be a #1 guy. In my dreams, yes, but he won't be who he was, unfortunately, and I can't see him playing the minutes that many expect him to play. If Kaberle gets serious and puts himself in real shape, he can take on 2nd pair duty. You're sounding too much like Bones to me, and I'm sounding too much like HA, I know, but this frightens me. I guess I'm just agreeing with . . . Sorry. Have to disagree here. You've got 2 great big ifs there. If Markov's knee holds up and if Kaberle is serious. Those are huge Ifs. |
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 16, 2012 13:35:28 GMT -5
Twitter is alive with rumours that the Habs are offering up Subban for Edmonton's 1st pick so that they would have the 1st and 3rd picks. Not sure how I feel about this one....would love to have both picks, but to trade Subban would be very difficult!! I wouldn't deal Subban for small Russian winger? |
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Post by HABSINFL on Jun 17, 2012 8:01:22 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, Suban has to stay, no way we trade that stalion, 20:00mins + per game, he is our number one defensemen for many years to come, like or better the Larry Robinson.
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Post by clear observer on Jun 17, 2012 9:01:10 GMT -5
A bonafide top-flight CURRENT star for an 18 yr old Russian "hopeful"  I fail to see ANY logic in a move of this nature. |
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