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Post by seventeen on Jul 27, 2012 17:53:17 GMT -5
Weird. I never took him for a full fledged nutter.
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Post by CentreHice on Jul 27, 2012 18:22:52 GMT -5
$7.5 million--a $2.95 million raise--for 4 years...at the age of 35?
Could be just a rumour....but, if it's not.....
Jim Rutherford? Paul Holmgren? Glen Sather? Chuck Fletcher? Garth Snow?
How about Dallas, now that Gainey's advising Nieuwendyk?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2012 21:31:35 GMT -5
Some team will pay his asking price...
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Post by blny on Jul 30, 2012 9:39:13 GMT -5
It won't be Detroit. Aaron Ward is reporting that the Wings have bowed out.
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Post by duster on Aug 1, 2012 12:12:51 GMT -5
I just don't see Doan signing in Montreal. I'm sure he remembers Denis Coderre and his ilk. Rather, I think he'll use the Habs to leverage a better deal elsewhere a la Shanahan, Sundin, Lapointe, Hull, etc....
I'm betting on the Rangers.
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Post by Bones on Aug 1, 2012 16:55:31 GMT -5
I just don't see Doan signing in Montreal. I'm sure he remembers Denis Coderre and his ilk. Rather, I think he'll use the Habs to leverage a better deal elsewhere a la Shanahan, Sundin, Lapointe, Hull, etc.... I'm betting on the Rangers. As much as I don't see Doan as a fit in Montreal, especially at the term he's looking for, can you imagine him on the Rangers? With the acquisition of Nash and the team they already had assembled going into the off-season, they would be downright scary. The best team in the east imo, if not the league. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 1, 2012 17:25:58 GMT -5
I just don't see Doan signing in Montreal. I'm sure he remembers Denis Coderre and his ilk. Rather, I think he'll use the Habs to leverage a better deal elsewhere a la Shanahan, Sundin, Lapointe, Hull, etc.... I'm betting on the Rangers. As much as I don't see Doan as a fit in Montreal, especially at the term he's looking for, can you imagine him on the Rangers? With the acquisition of Nash and the team they already had assembled going into the off-season, they would be downright scary. The best team in the east imo, if not the league. It took Sather a while to put that team together but he had help. He brought in Ryan McDonagh and Rick Nash. Mind you he was practically given these guys. And the thing is, I don't find Sather to be all that spectacular a GM. Both the Habs and the Blue Jackets approached Sather, which put him in the driver's seat right away. He got what he wanted in both cases and those pieces have made the Rangers a legit chance at the Cup. The Rangers are a big-market team with stars in the lineup (how nice would that be) as it is now. If they land Doan ... even get one good year out of him ... Cheers. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Aug 5, 2012 9:24:41 GMT -5
...frankly, Sather is a GM who eventually "got it" and adapted to what the GM job should be now and that is focusing on the right player at the right time, go all out when the opportunity warrants it and correct mistakes swiftly.
People always talk about the tax and media as knock out criterias here, but the main thing that real top players want, is a contending team, being part of an organisation that year after year genuinely tries to be the best. Montreal is the typical example of an organisation that just wants to be "good enough for playoff revenue" and continually focus on overpaying mediocrity to stay afloat.
So far I am greatly underwhelmed by Bergevin's work. Unspectacular work, we're looking at coasting through next season on a loosely patched up job of what the previous regime put together... Montreal's best asset remains it's incredibly faithful fan base, who wants nothing more than to believe that a last place team can bounce back without much work.
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Post by jkr on Aug 6, 2012 6:54:35 GMT -5
...frankly, Sather is a GM who eventually "got it" and adapted to what the GM job should be now and that is focusing on the right player at the right time, go all out when the opportunity warrants it and correct mistakes swiftly. People always talk about the tax and media as knock out criterias here, but the main thing that real top players want, is a contending team, being part of an organisation that year after year genuinely tries to be the best. Montreal is the typical example of an organisation that just wants to be "good enough for playoff revenue" and continually focus on overpaying mediocrity to stay afloat. So far I am greatly underwhelmed by Bergevin's work. Unspectacular work, we're looking at coasting through next season on a loosely patched up job of what the previous regime put together... Montreal's best asset remains it's incredibly faithful fan base, who wants nothing more than to believe that a last place team can bounce back without much work. I'm not impressed with Sather. He spent years in NY coasting on his reputation. This is a 15th place team & it's going to take a while to fix it. I wasn't expecting a huge bounce back this season. Some of the signings, like Boullion, are stop gaps until the D prospects are ready. Bergevin wasn't left with a lot to work with. What were you expecting Doc? |
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Post by Skilly on Aug 6, 2012 10:05:45 GMT -5
What were you expecting Doc? I don't want to speak for Doc here, but I imagine he was looking for what alot of us were looking for. That being, play the guys that play the hardest, get rid of the guys that aren't playing up to their contracts, and spend that money on value players to give the core of our team a shot in the arm. That was very doable this year ... but Bergevin decided to sign Armstrong and Prust and keep pretty much the same team going forward. Imagine if we now knew Gomez was being demoted and MB was actively trying to get a 7 million dollar player? There would be hope spread throughout the organization and fanbase, and other available players may start trying to be apart of something special here, instead of status quo. These moves may end up working ... but I don't see many people saying we will be a vastly improved team this year. |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 6, 2012 11:07:19 GMT -5
Imagine if we now knew Gomez was being demoted and MB was actively trying to get a 7 million dollar player? Like Doan?  I think the Berg's doing fine. Clean up some obvious, fixeable weaknesses like the bottom 6. Unless you're lucky enough to have exclusive trading rights with Scott Howson, like Sather, you can't fix the top 6 problems right away. Get a strong management team in place, and he's done that. The rest takes time. |
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Post by blny on Aug 6, 2012 11:56:48 GMT -5
I'm not really sure how you can be completely unhappy with what Berg has done. My only concern is the coaching choice. I'm 50/50 on it. I think Therrien can work, but it could also blow up.
Berg made a clear statement on July 1, addressing needs that were apparent since 2011. This team will be harder to play. We'd all love to see some more scoring added, but we can see the price is astronomical.
This team will have a better year. They won't be 15th in the east.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Aug 6, 2012 12:24:25 GMT -5
This is a 15th place team & it's going to take a while to fix it. I wasn't expecting a huge bounce back this season. Some of the signings, like Boullion, are stop gaps until the D prospects are ready. Bergevin wasn't left with a lot to work with. What were you expecting Doc? ...I don't know it seems like erverytime we change GM we expect nothing at ice level and accept that past mistakes are unsolvable and that going along with the previous regime plan is the only thing left to do... As it stands the lineup is set: Pax - DD - Cole Bourque - Pleks - Gionta Prust - Eller - Moen White - Nokaleinen - Armstrong Gomez Subban - Gorges Markov - Emelin Bouillon - Kaberle Diaz Webber That might not be a last place team (but it may just be) but it sure ain't a playoff team either. No room for rookies and no real improvement to a team that badly needed fire power. It's a mediocre patched up job of the Gainey and Goat design. Not sure what I expected JKR, but I doubt anyone wished for our new GM to just follow in Goat's footsteps and offer us a reheated edition of last year's team. I mean sign our RFAs, pick up 3 average UFAs, no trades. That's Bergevin's job so far this summer on the team. As I said, i'm underwhelmed. Not thoroughly disgruntled. But not impressed either. My expectations were that our new GM would have done something else than take a mulligan for next season. |
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Post by blny on Aug 6, 2012 13:01:24 GMT -5
I don't think there's any real need to make room for rookies. What ones are ready? Palushaj?
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Post by Forum Ghost on Aug 7, 2012 16:41:30 GMT -5
Yes, Bergevin's work has been less than impressive because he didn't trade for Staal and Nash and he didn't sign Semin.  Let's look at this realistically folks. Would it really have been possible to overhaul the roster in one offseason?? MB inherited one of the worst teams in the league last year and we are expecting him to turn garbage into gold in 4 months? I think he's on the right track and he can further execute his game plan in the coming year. Since coming on board in May, Bergevin has beefed up the front office and scouting, created new positions responsible for player development, added a brand new coaching staff for the Habs and the Bulldogs, had a lights out draft - arguably the best among the 30 teams - and has added much needed toughness and grit for our bottom six forwards. That's a pretty productive offseason if you ask me. In addition to all of this, should he have signed Semin for $7M? Or should he sign Doan for $7M? Oh wait, then we would complain about how he gave them too much money... |
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Post by Skilly on Aug 7, 2012 17:32:19 GMT -5
Yes, Bergevin's work has been less than impressive because he didn't trade for Staal and Nash and he didn't sign Semin. Let's look at this realistically folks. Would it really have been possible to overhaul the roster in one offseason?? MB inherited one of the worst teams in the league last year and we are expecting him to turn garbage into gold in 4 months? I think he's on the right track and he can further execute his game plan in the coming year. Since coming on board in May, Bergevin has beefed up the front office and scouting, created new positions responsible for player development, added a brand new coaching staff for the Habs and the Bulldogs, had a lights out draft - arguably the best among the 30 teams - and has added much needed toughness and grit for out bottom six forwards. That's a pretty productive offseason if you ask me. In addition to all of this, should he have signed Semin for $7M? Or should he sign Doan for $7M? Oh wait, then we would complain about how he gave them too much money... Who said the 7 million had to be spent on one player .... The first step to improvement, was dumping Gomez, showing the league we are serious about winning. Starting the season with Gomez, shows me MB thinks he is still a top six player ... I don't see Gomez being on the bottom six. If he did that, then we can speculate on what free agency moves or trades could have been made .... |
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Post by Forum Ghost on Aug 7, 2012 18:15:48 GMT -5
Who said the 7 million had to be spent on one player .... The first step to improvement, was dumping Gomez, showing the league we are serious about winning. Starting the season with Gomez, shows me MB thinks he is still a top six player ... I don't see Gomez being on the bottom six. If he did that, then we can speculate on what free agency moves or trades could have been made .... It's only early August. There's still time plenty of time for Gomez to be dumped. Besides, with a new CBA in the works, now is not the time to dump Gomez anyways. There may or may not be an amnesty clause in the new agreement. Without knowing what the new landscape will look like, it's too soon to make a major move like that. MB's playing it smart by being patient. He'll see what's in the new CBA and will then act accordingly. Just because it hasn't been done yet, doesn't mean that it won't happen and it's very premature to criticize him for it with the season quite a distance away. |
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Post by blny on Aug 7, 2012 21:33:45 GMT -5
It's all about waiting to the last minute with Gomez. No need to do it now. Wait for the CBA to sort out.
This 'garbage' team also gave the eventual cup winners their stiffest test the season before. Don't confuse a perfect storm and players fed up with the regime as garbage. I sincerely think there will be a turn around.
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Post by Forum Ghost on Aug 9, 2012 20:50:15 GMT -5
It's all about waiting to the last minute with Gomez. No need to do it now. Wait for the CBA to sort out. This 'garbage' team also gave the eventual cup winners their stiffest test the season before. Don't confuse a perfect storm and players fed up with the regime as garbage. I sincerely think there will be a turn around. Fully agree. This team is not nearly as bad as they showed last season. From start to finish, last year was a circus - and Gauthier was the ringmaster. With that kind of atmosphere, it's easy to see why the team lost focus. |
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Post by Skilly on Aug 9, 2012 21:49:52 GMT -5
Why do Habs fans always speak of circuses and perfect storms to justify bad seasons and see hope in the next season? We keep saying in Gomezian fashion that we aren't as bad as our record year after year. Kovalev affair, the death threats, the mafia (both Russian and Hells Angels), the three amigos, the clicks, the long list of seasons where we were near the top of the league in injuries , family deaths, .... The list of distractions is endless, yet we seem to think the previous season is the aberration, when in fact it's the norm. Every year we find something to pin the bad year on. Maybe the team just wasn't good enough.
We want to end the cycle, we have to see a switch from relying on defense and goalies, and find finishers .....
As for waiting to dump Gomez, I don't get why MB should wait. Whether there is an amnesty clause or not, he can dump him for free .... Waiting actually limits the amount he can offer someone like Subban, and hinders his ability to make a trade. He gains nothing by waiting, especially if they decide in the new CBA that you can no longer hide your mistakes in the AHL.
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Post by blny on Aug 9, 2012 22:28:15 GMT -5
There's a big difference between a bad team and a bad season. Some believe it's a bad team. Some believe last year was a bad year. I'm in the latter group, if for no other reason than the core group was good enough the previous two years to have a great run and give the eventual cup winner it's sternest test.
No one can deny that a hornet's nest of things happened in 2011-12. I believe the spiral started on July 1. Aside from adding Cole, nothing was done to address toughness. It clearly had an adverse affect on the attitude of one Michael Cammalleri. Whether it negatively affected others, I don't know. Injuries to key contributors during the season, and not having a contingency for Markov also hurt the club. My point in all this is that the biggest problem was management (and I put Martin in that group). They couldn't adapt. They couldn't communicate. They just weren't the right people to fix a ship that had quickly 'gone out of the lane'. No one can say for sure whether the new regime will do it right.
We all want to believe they will. We can debate the hires, and have, but I like the direction. Clear communication. Clear division of labour. A modern approach to business. It's about increasing accountability and getting people who want to be in Montreal to mentor those that are. It's a top down change.
Will it translate onto the ice? I believe the sandpaper will help. I think the new regime will go a long way to improving moral within the room and thus improve the image of the club as a destination for players.
Onward and upward.
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Post by Skilly on Aug 11, 2012 6:51:44 GMT -5
There's a big difference between a bad team and a bad season. Some believe it's a bad team. Some believe last year was a bad year. I'm in the latter group, if for no other reason than the core group was good enough the previous two years to have a great run and give the eventual cup winner it's sternest test. No one can deny that a hornet's nest of things happened in 2011-12. I believe the spiral started on July 1. Aside from adding Cole, nothing was done to address toughness. It clearly had an adverse affect on the attitude of one Michael Cammalleri. Whether it negatively affected others, I don't know. Injuries to key contributors during the season, and not having a contingency for Markov also hurt the club. My point in all this is that the biggest problem was management (and I put Martin in that group). They couldn't adapt. They couldn't communicate. They just weren't the right people to fix a ship that had quickly 'gone out of the lane'. No one can say for sure whether the new regime will do it right. We all want to believe they will. We can debate the hires, and have, but I like the direction. Clear communication. Clear division of labour. A modern approach to business. It's about increasing accountability and getting people who want to be in Montreal to mentor those that are. It's a top down change. Will it translate onto the ice? I believe the sandpaper will help. I think the new regime will go a long way to improving moral within the room and thus improve the image of the club as a destination for players. Onward and upward. Good post! |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Aug 11, 2012 8:19:35 GMT -5
Yes, Bergevin's work has been less than impressive because he didn't trade for Staal and Nash and he didn't sign Semin. Let's look at this realistically folks. Would it really have been possible to overhaul the roster in one offseason?? MB inherited one of the worst teams in the league last year and we are expecting him to turn garbage into gold in 4 months? I think he's on the right track and he can further execute his game plan in the coming year. Since coming on board in May, Bergevin has beefed up the front office and scouting, created new positions responsible for player development, added a brand new coaching staff for the Habs and the Bulldogs, had a lights out draft - arguably the best among the 30 teams - and has added much needed toughness and grit for our bottom six forwards. That's a pretty productive offseason if you ask me. In addition to all of this, should he have signed Semin for $7M? Or should he sign Doan for $7M? Oh wait, then we would complain about how he gave them too much money... Why not Semin for 7MM? For one year? What's the big risk there? We badly need scoring help on the top 6, if he goes back to being the offensive threat he was, we're happy, if it doesn't work so what, at the end of the season he's gone. Turn Gomez into Semin for one year. |
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Post by franko on Aug 11, 2012 8:34:33 GMT -5
Doc, I see what you're saying . . . but why? Is Semin going to make us a Stanley Cup contender? Is Doan? I don't have much hope for this year -- let a contract or two run out and let the young guys get some experience [though I may let them get the experience in the NHL rather than the A].
Year 1: make the playoffs
Year 2: excel in the playoffs
Year 3: win the playoffs
I'd be happy with that.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Aug 11, 2012 8:47:58 GMT -5
Franko I don't have much hope for next year either, Semin won't bring us a cup, but then again maybe he improves us a little next year. Maybe the offensive influx he'd bring gets us into the playoffs? Maybe not. But wouldn't you rather see Gomez in the minor and that 7MM used on something that may help a little?
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Post by blny on Aug 11, 2012 9:33:34 GMT -5
Too late for Semin. He signed that deal in Carolina.
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Post by franko on Aug 11, 2012 13:28:02 GMT -5
Franko I don't have much hope for next year either, Semin won't bring us a cup, but then again maybe he improves us a little next year. Maybe the offensive influx he'd bring gets us into the playoffs? Maybe not. But wouldn't you rather see Gomez in the minor and that 7MM used on something that may help a little? yes I'd like Gomez gone, but I was never interested in the second coming of Kovalev. This season is a write-off unless the stars align for us. I can [sort of] accept that. But I want to see improvement, and the young guys get a bit of maturity. first call-ups. And on the ice. And if they make a mistake, back on the ice, none of this stapled to the bench for three games. |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 11, 2012 23:14:16 GMT -5
What I think the non-signing of Semin proves is that the Berg is really keen on character. Semin has none, so he was done like dinner as far as coming to Montreal. Doan, on the other hand, was of interest, but not at that price.
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Post by blny on Aug 12, 2012 12:54:16 GMT -5
What I think the non-signing of Semin proves is that the Berg is really keen on character. Semin has none, so he was done like dinner as far as coming to Montreal. Doan, on the other hand, was of interest, but not at that price. No doubt. Skill can't come at the sacrifice of character. And, vice versa. |
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Post by Forum Ghost on Aug 12, 2012 18:23:06 GMT -5
Why not Semin for 7MM? For one year? What's the big risk there? We badly need scoring help on the top 6, if he goes back to being the offensive threat he was, we're happy, if it doesn't work so what, at the end of the season he's gone. Turn Gomez into Semin for one year. This guy is known as one of the laziest, most selfish and enigmatic players in the league. I wouldn't want him on the Habs and have that rub off on the young players and the rest of the team - even if it's for one year. Bergevin obviously feels the same way. He's bringing in players with character. He has said it time and time again and under this criteria Semin is not a fit. |
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The Lords Of The Rings
