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Post by CentreHice on Aug 24, 2012 9:29:02 GMT -5
Wow...he'd better hire the Roger Clemens legal team. ArticleDropped his fight.....playing the victim, using terms such as "witch hunt"....and the officials were having none of it. Took it as an admission of guilt and acted quickly. Makes sense....if the guy's truly innocent, he fights. Especially when his image, legacy, and future earning potential will be destroyed. Thoughts? I recall a story a few years ago concerning one of his employees ratting on him...very convincingly, IIRC. |
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Post by blny on Aug 24, 2012 10:12:28 GMT -5
While I have no doubt in my mind he cheated, they never could prove it. I guess the court of public opinion won this one.
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 24, 2012 10:24:56 GMT -5
If you're innocent (or truly think you can get away with it) are you going to let the "court of public opinion" take away EVERYTHING? Your legacy...plus your future earnings? Seven Tour titles...gone. Shamed forever. Branded as a cheater.
Not a chance you allow that to happen.
I think the officials had more than enough on him, and Lance knew he was done. So, he's now playing the victim. He'll get a lucrative book deal out of that angle...and perhaps a speaking tour, as there are likely many who believe him re: witch hunt.
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Post by Skilly on Aug 24, 2012 10:35:58 GMT -5
I tried last night to find the original Lance Armstrong thread to resurrect ...
Seven titles after immediately beating cancer. A long line of people close to him coming out against him. Failed tests being brushed off as something other than cheating. Where there is smoke and all that .... if he didn't fail that test in 1999 (saddle sores indeed), none of this may never have come to pass.
He'll hang his hat on the many tests he passed, but many Olympic athletes passed tests only to discover in the future with better technology that they cheated.
If he in fact did cheat, I would like to see, and yes I know it is never going to happen, but I'd like to see people who purchased Livestrong items given more than just an apology ... many people bought that stuff as an homage to Armstrong, moreso than the cause.
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Post by Gogie on Aug 24, 2012 10:36:51 GMT -5
I thinik the biggest reason he "gave up" is because a number of his former team members were going to be testifying against him and he probably realized the jig was up.
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 24, 2012 10:49:19 GMT -5
I thinik the biggest reason he "gave up" is because a number of his former team members were going to be testifying against him and he probably realized the jig was up. Exactly....you can refute one guy, perhaps....but 10? |
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Post by blny on Aug 24, 2012 10:56:42 GMT -5
I thinik the biggest reason he "gave up" is because a number of his former team members were going to be testifying against him and he probably realized the jig was up. Exactly....you can refute one guy, perhaps....but 10? Didn't many of the US Postal guys also get found cheating? |
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 24, 2012 11:12:37 GMT -5
From the article:
Included in USADA's evidence were emails written by Armstrong's former U.S. Postal Service teammate Floyd Landis, who was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title after a positive drug test. Landis' emails to a USA Cycling official detailed allegations of a complex doping program on the team.
Landis wasn't about to take the only fall, it seems.
Landis and Tyler Hamilton (don't know if Hamilton was on the Postal Team or not) have both admitted to doping offenses.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Aug 24, 2012 11:21:24 GMT -5
You know in some odd ways Armstrong story kinda reminds me of Dan Brown's Angels and Demons...
Here's a guy who's battle against cancer and rise to become the best have inspired a lot of people to "never give up and be all you can be" type of thing... I.E. his life story has done some good...
...but it's based on some cheating...
...truth must prevail but we lost a good role model in the process.
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Post by Skilly on Aug 24, 2012 18:00:16 GMT -5
From the article: Included in USADA's evidence were emails written by Armstrong's former U.S. Postal Service teammate Floyd Landis, who was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title after a positive drug test. Landis' emails to a USA Cycling official detailed allegations of a complex doping program on the team.Landis wasn't about to take the only fall, it seems. Landis and Tyler Hamilton (don't know if Hamilton was on the Postal Team or not) have both admitted to doping offenses. Over the years many have spoken out and accused Armstrong of cheating ... Landis, Hamilton and Greg Lemont. But they were brushed off as sour grapes cause they got caught. (not sure if Lemont faced allegations). Finally, they are banding together as a group ... One has to wonder what took them so long. |
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 24, 2012 18:20:31 GMT -5
Good question, Skilly.
Seeing as several more have joined them, I'm guessing they took their time to ensure an iron-clad case. Which may be the reason Armstrong decided to drop it and play the victim card...thereby avoiding testimony in court and the public knowledge of it.
I wonder if those stories will come out anyway. I'd read that book before I'd read Lance's take. Innocent til proven guilty, yes....but he's avoiding that process. And if he is truly innocent, then why isn't he fighting it?
IMO, Armstrong's the one who prefers to fight in the court of public opinion....because it appears as if he knows he'd lose in a court of law.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 24, 2012 21:23:25 GMT -5
... people who purchased Livestrong items given more than just an apology ... many people bought that stuff as an homage to Armstrong, moreso than the cause. Similar to Hulk Hogan's vitamins aimed right at his "little Hulkamaniacs." He testified under oath that he had used anabolic steroids for years. Deflated a few youngsters no doubt. Cheers. |
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Post by Skilly on Aug 25, 2012 7:37:13 GMT -5
Hard way to get a medal, but I'm sure Abraham Olano will take Lance's 2000 Olympic bronze medal in the men's time trial and hang it on his wall next to his silver in the same event from 1996
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Aug 25, 2012 10:33:07 GMT -5
Hard way to get a medal, but I'm sure Abraham Olano will take Lance's 2000 Olympic bronze medal in the men's time trial and hang it on his wall next to his silver in the same event from 1996 Lance cheated and didn't get caught. We don't go back and replay the Stanley Cup because a goal from the crease is later discovered. How about a hooking penalty missed so we cancel the Habs 5 consecutive cups. They all cheated. The best cheaters didn't get caught. What if Lance died of cancer last year and wasn't here to defend himself. Would they still strip him of his accomplishments? Are we sure that the riders that all move up a notch didn't cheat? It's over, let it go. |
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 25, 2012 12:03:32 GMT -5
Big difference between a missed hooking call and breaking the laws of your sport...or breaking the law period. The best cheaters don't get caught because their masking agents are better, or officials are paid to look the other way.
Yes, there is the argument that such a person is the best cheater in a sea of cheaters, so it's all relative. But their sport has rules against blood doping and illegal performance enhancing substances. Shouldn't matter when it comes to light. Many crimes take years to surface and justice is still expected to be carried out. I don't see why athletes should get a pass and continue to rake in millions as frauds and cheats.
But, it seems ALL celebrities (and people of means) not only get a pass....but second, third, and more chances, whereas most of us would be tarred and feathered in our workplaces and communities for the same behaviours.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 25, 2012 12:53:20 GMT -5
...truth must prevail but we lost a good role model in the process. Very good way of putting it, Doc. Personally, I didn't like seeing this come down, but as Skilly pointed out, Lance has been suspected of doping for some years now. The things about this story for me are, how long it's been around and how no one let it go. It never went away. I was listening to the TSN radio feed yesterday and one of the guys they interviewed was on the USADA. He suggested that it's entirely possible that Lance simply caved in because he knew he'd eventually wind up in court. Apparently with the evidence the USADA had on him, Lance had no chance whatsoever. If true he probably saved himself a media-driven, over-publicized public disgrace. Like you, I also believe that there should be discipline if warranted. But, I also once admired Lance for his accomplishments. He was pretty good at playing the role model. And now I'm disappointed. As an aside, I greatly admire Usain Bolt's accomplishments. But, that doping thing is always hanging around. There's always going to be a "but" somewhere in the sentence when you're talking about raising the human limits. Cheers. |
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Post by Skilly on Aug 25, 2012 14:03:39 GMT -5
Hard way to get a medal, but I'm sure Abraham Olano will take Lance's 2000 Olympic bronze medal in the men's time trial and hang it on his wall next to his silver in the same event from 1996 Lance cheated and didn't get caught. We don't go back and replay the Stanley Cup because a goal from the crease is later discovered. How about a hooking penalty missed so we cancel the Habs 5 consecutive cups. They all cheated. The best cheaters didn't get caught. What if Lance died of cancer last year and wasn't here to defend himself. Would they still strip him of his accomplishments? Are we sure that the riders that all move up a notch didn't cheat? It's over, let it go. Personally, I have always thought that Lance should be stripped of his victories, regardless of if he was using illegal substances or not. Why? Well, most avid cyclers, and cycling fans, are pretty quick to tell you (well, the ones I know anyway) that cycling is moreso a team sport than an individual sport. I've been told, that most riders are told they are there to support a particular teammate who is thought to have a chance of winning .... So if Lemond, Hamilton, and Landis were doping to keep up with Armstrong, and give him a chance to win (drafting, protecting him in the peloton and so forth) then whether Lance doped himself or not, his victories were aided by doping/cheaters. Yes, we pretty much know now that a lot of high end cycles and sprinters use illegal substances .. Doesn't make it right. A more apt example would be if Canada won the hockey gold medal in the Olympics, and years later we discover Crosby was blood doping. Would Canada lose their medals? I think they would ... Now, if their respective sport bodies all of a sudden said there is no way to control the cheating and allowed it, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Even playing field and all. Just keep two records , clean and doped. But there is a way to control cheating. It's the mandate of USADA and WADA. And my biggest problem with the cheating is the athletes getting in front of the cameras and adamantly denying it time after time ... |
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 29, 2012 12:44:59 GMT -5
Let the Armstrong Violin Spin begin. ArticleCourt of law, Lance. If you're innocent, I'm sure your Foundation would kick in some legal fees, which you could pay back once you win the case and sue for defamation/pain/suffering. His conquering of cancer and contribution to research are inspirational and commendable beyond words....but such things can't be used as a Teflon coating. You know what, though? It just may be deemed "too damaging to the cause" to strip him of the titles...and he may retain hero/champion status. Right in line with politicians and other big shots who skirt justice. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Aug 29, 2012 15:02:52 GMT -5
Violins aside:
He became a role model for thousands of cancer survivors and established a charitable foundation that has raised $500 million to fight the disease.
That's one side of the coin.
The other?
What does this USADA which hunt achieves?
...Oh yeah, ultimately meddling with wich athletes should have been in what positions on bicycle races done 10 years ago... ya know... important stuff...
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 29, 2012 16:10:04 GMT -5
Doc, that's what I mean by "too damaging to the cause"....and that's the approach he and his people are obviously taking. From the article: “I think the real issue here is one of distraction,” he said. “I’m going to tell this to you all as if you’re friends and partners and allies: ‘I’m not going to be distracted from this fight.’”First, it's a witch hunt...now his detractors want cancer research to be hindered. One-two guilt punch. What does this USADA which hunt achieves? ...Oh yeah, ultimately meddling with wich athletes should have been in what positions on bicycle races done 10 years ago... ya know... important stuff... Finishing 1st seven times has been very important stuff to Armstrong. He's made his fame and fortune from those titles. He's still espousing that he's a 7-time champion because that's his bread-and-butter reputation. Yep, very important stuff. If I'd finished a "clean" second in any one of those races, I'd be quite ticked to say the least...especially now that he's not fighting the charges. Have his guilty, disgraced teammates made anywhere NEAR what he has? It appears he's making it into an "If you say I cheated, then you don't like cancer research" argument....which isn't logical at all. I don't know...maybe it's best in the long run to drop it when you consider how many lives will be improved/saved....but I wonder how many people will be quick to donate to his foundation now. And I wonder how many previous donors feel more than a bit deceived, as Skilly and Dis have mentioned above. ======================================================== Here's an interesting take. Even though I have my leanings, I respect and will hear all sides. I think your thoughts are echoed in this piece, Doc. An argument well-made. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Aug 29, 2012 21:15:33 GMT -5
How many others haven't been caught and punished. Guilty of success and jealous teamates who showed no loyalty or class.
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Post by Skilly on Aug 30, 2012 12:54:26 GMT -5
How many others haven't been caught and punished. Guilty of success and jealous teamates who showed no loyalty or class. Thats not a very good arguement. So if you kill someone, should you be set free because someone else got away with it? I saw a graphic on the TV the other day that showed almost all the second place finishers to Armstrong were associated or caught in various doping scandals. So shouldn't your arguement apply there ... Armstrong WAS someone who wasn't caught or punished. As for the last comment ... jealous teammates? No doubt. I have watched shows where the US Postal team was told outright, that only Lance could win. Flyod Landis believed he could have been a multiple winner before he actually won, but he was told his role on the team was to support Lance. No Loyalty? I dont buy that one. They kept it a secret for over a decade, for the sole reason that they were loyal to Lance and his cause. No class? I don't buy that one either. It takes an exceptional type of character to speak up when they know their character is going to be questioned / ruined and face a firing squad. |
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Post by jkr on Aug 30, 2012 19:45:34 GMT -5
Violins aside: He became a role model for thousands of cancer survivors and established a charitable foundation that has raised $500 million to fight the disease.That's one side of the coin. The other? What does this USADA which hunt achieves? ...Oh yeah, ultimately meddling with wich athletes should have been in what positions on bicycle races done 10 years ago... ya know... important stuff... I'm with you here. He won the races then. Stripping him of the tirles now means nothing to me. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Aug 30, 2012 20:46:17 GMT -5
How many others haven't been caught and punished. Guilty of success and jealous teamates who showed no loyalty or class. Thats not a very good arguement. So if you kill someone, should you be set free because someone else got away with it? I saw a graphic on the TV the other day that showed almost all the second place finishers to Armstrong were associated or caught in various doping scandals. So shouldn't your arguement apply there ... Armstrong WAS someone who wasn't caught or punished. As for the last comment ... jealous teammates? No doubt. I have watched shows where the US Postal team was told outright, that only Lance could win. Flyod Landis believed he could have been a multiple winner before he actually won, but he was told his role on the team was to support Lance. No Loyalty? I dont buy that one. They kept it a secret for over a decade, for the sole reason that they were loyal to Lance and his cause. No class? I don't buy that one either. It takes an exceptional type of character to speak up when they know their character is going to be questioned / ruined and face a firing squad. It isn't. Zero sum equation. Yes, he probably cheated. He cheated well and wasn't caught not unlike Gordie Howe who used his elbows to intimidate and usually wasn't caught. News flash! Twelve deciples testify that Mary wasn't a virgin and Jesus switched the clay pot of water for one containing wine. We can't go back and change called balls and strikes in the year 2000 and rearward the World Series. We can't even go back to yesterday's game and adjust the standings. Lance played by the rules and won. He passed all the drug tests and stood on the podium. Ten years later testimony by teamates reverse the results. How many years does Wayne Gretzky have to defend his records against someone coming out to say his contracts were invalid, he used marijuana or his stick was curved beyond legal limits? When does the cup winner become official? If Obama falsified his birth certificate, can we declare that he never was president? Can we overturn all the laws he passed and repatriate all the people that were hurt? |
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 31, 2012 9:41:08 GMT -5
Cheating and fraud have always been part of the sports landscape, it seems....and not getting caught is just as good as playing by the rules. Integrity in 100% pure form is a rare find. Ben Johnson was not only stripped of his 1988 World Record and Olympic Gold, but also of his 1st place finish and World Record set in Rome in 1987. Why? He wasn't caught in 1987. Was there a hue and cry to retain the 87 title and record? Nope. Good riddance to a cheater. That was the sentiment then...and he's still branded with the disgrace. I think it's common knowledge, though, that he WAS the fastest cheater in a sea of cheaters....just not the smartest. Maybe it would've helped his cause if he'd started a charity in the mid-80s.  |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Aug 31, 2012 13:06:34 GMT -5
Violins aside: He became a role model for thousands of cancer survivors and established a charitable foundation that has raised $500 million to fight the disease.That's one side of the coin. The other? What does this USADA which hunt achieves? ...Oh yeah, ultimately meddling with wich athletes should have been in what positions on bicycle races done 10 years ago... ya know... important stuff... I'm with you here. He won the races then. Stripping him of the tirles now means nothing to me. That's the only point I'm trying to make. It serves no real purpose other than to descredit Armstrong. From the article: If Tour de France officials follow USADA's lead and announces that Armstrong has been stripped of his titles, Jan Ullrich could be promoted to champion in three of those years. Ullrich was stripped of his third-place finish in the 2005 Tour and retired from racing two years later after being implicated in another doping scandal.
The retired German racer expressed no desire to rewrite the record book of cycling's greatest event, even though he would be the biggest beneficiary.
"I know how the order was on the finishing line at the time," Ullrich said. "I've finished with my professional career and have always said that I was proud of my second-place finishes."
So strip Armstrong of his title to give it to the next guy in line, who has been found guilty of doping on other occasions? Again, what are we achieving here ?
Ben Johnson was not only stripped of his 1988 World Record and Olympic Gold, but also of his 1st place finish and World Record set in Rome in 1987. Why?
Huge difference IMO. Johnson got caught when doing a test. Just like Landis, did the test, failed, you're busted.
Armstrong never tested positive, and now 10 years later, the USADA is claiming "new evidence"... |
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Post by Skilly on Aug 31, 2012 14:19:45 GMT -5
Everyone seems to want to rewrite history ... Armstrong did not pass ALL his tests. He had many qustionable tests that authorities wanted explanations on. His first Tour de France victory his sample tested positive for a steroid. Armstrong's camp explained it away as medication for saddle sores. He also had tests in other Tours and events that authorities did not feel the answers provided passed the smell test. This is why WADA and USADA have kept up the fight ... This all kind of reminds me of the new rules put forth by the School Board here in Newfoundland. People caught cheating on tests are no longer allowed to be given failing grades. The school board has "recognized" that there is pressure on little Johnnie and Jane that may cause them to cheat, so caught cheaters now are allowed to re-write the test (if they get caught that is). Yep, thats what we should be teaching our kids nowadays .... cheat away, the benefits are huge, the penalties are limited, ....  |
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Post by Skilly on Aug 31, 2012 14:37:11 GMT -5
From Wikipedia ...
Allegations of dopingFor much of the second phase of his career, Armstrong has faced persistent allegations of doping.[55] A number of high-profile cyclists and journalists have alleged that he cheated although Armstrong retains respect and prestige in some circles.[56]
Armstrong has been criticised for his disagreements with outspoken opponents of doping such as Paul Kimmage[57][58] and Christophe Bassons, the only cyclist in his team to come clean of drugs during the infamous Festina affair.[59][60] Bassons wrote a number of articles for a French newspaper during the 1999 Tour de France which made references to doping in the peloton. Subsequently, Armstrong had an altercation with Bassons during the 1999 Tour de France where Bassons said Armstrong rode up alongside on the Alpe d'Huez stage to tell him "it was a mistake to speak out the way I (Bassons) do and he (Armstrong) asked why I was doing it. I told him that I'm thinking of the next generation of riders. Then he said 'Why don't you leave, then?'"[61] Armstrong confirmed the story. On the main evening news on TF1, a national television station, Armstrong said: "His accusations aren't good for cycling, for his team, for me, for anybody. If he thinks cycling works like that, he's wrong and he would be better off going home".[62] Kimmage, a professional cyclist in the 1980s who later became a sports journalist, referred to Armstrong as a "cancer in cycling".[60] He also asked Armstrong questions in relation to his "admiration for dopers" at a press conference at the Tour of California in 2009, provoking a scathing reaction from Armstrong.[60] This spat continued and is exemplified by Kimmage's articles in The Sunday Times.[63][dead link]
Armstrong has continually denied using illegal performance-enhancing drugs and has described himself as the most tested athlete in the world.[64] A 1999 urine sample showed traces of corticosteroid in an amount that was not in the positive range. A medical certificate showed he used an approved cream for saddle sores which contained the substance.[65] Emma O' Reilly, Armstrong's masseuse said she heard team officials worrying about Armstrong's positive test for steroids during the Tour. She said: "They were in a panic, saying: 'What are we going to do? What are we going to do?'". According to O'Reilly the solution was to get one of their compliant doctors to issue a pre-dated prescription for a steroid-based ointment to combat saddle sores. O'Reilly said she would have known if Armstrong had saddle sores as she would have administered any treatment for it. O'Reilly said that Armstrong told her: "Now, Emma, you know enough to bring me down." O'Reilly said on other occasions she was asked to dispose of used syringes for Armstrong and pick up strange parcels for the team.[66]
From his return to cycling in the fall of 2008 through March 2009, Armstrong submitted to 24 unannounced drug tests by various anti-doping authorities. All of the tests were negative for performance-enhancing drugs.[67][68]
U.S. federal prosecutors pursued allegations of doping by Armstrong from 2010–2012. The effort convened a grand jury to investigate doping charges, including taking statements under oath from Armstrong's former team members and other associates; met with officials from France, Belgium, Spain, and Italy; and requested samples from the French anti-doping agency. The investigation was led by federal agent Jeff Novitzky, who also investigated suspicions of steroid use by baseball players Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens. The probe was terminated on February 3, 2012 with no charges filed.[69]
Specific allegationsArmstrong has been criticized for working with controversial trainer Michele Ferrari. Greg LeMond described himself as "devastated" on hearing of them working together, while Tour de France organizer Jean-Marie Leblanc said, "I am not happy the two names are mixed."[70] Following Ferrari's later-overturned conviction for "sporting fraud" and "abuse of the medical profession", Armstrong suspended his professional relationship with him, saying that he had "zero tolerance for anyone convicted of using or facilitating the use of performance-enhancing drugs" and denying that Ferrari had ever "suggested, prescribed or provided me with any performance-enhancing drugs."[71] Ferrari was later absolved of all charges by an Italian appeals court of the sporting fraud charges as well as charges of abusing his medical license to write prescriptions. The court stated that it overturned his conviction "because the facts do not exist" to support the charges.[72] Ferrari, however, is still banned from practicing medicine with cyclists by the Italian Cycling Federation. According to Italian law enforcement authorities, Armstrong met with Ferrari as recently as 2010 in a country outside of Italy.[73]
In 2004, reporters Pierre Ballester and David Walsh published a book alleging Armstrong had used performance-enhancing drugs (L. A. Confidentiel – Les secrets de Lance Armstrong). It contains allegations by Armstrong's former masseuse, Emma O'Reilly, who claimed Armstrong once asked her to dispose of used syringes and to give him makeup to conceal needle marks on his arms.[citation needed] Another figure in the book, Steve Swart, claims he and other riders, including Armstrong, began using drugs in 1995 while members of the Motorola team, a claim denied by other team members.[74][75] Allegations in the book were reprinted in the UK newspaper The Sunday Times in a story by deputy sports editor Alan English in June 2004. Armstrong sued for libel, and the paper settled out of court after a High Court judge in a pre-trial ruling stated that the article "meant accusation of guilt and not simply reasonable grounds to suspect."[76] The newspaper's lawyers issued the statement: "The Sunday Times has confirmed to Mr. Armstrong that it never intended to accuse him of being guilty of taking any performance-enhancing drugs and sincerely apologized for any such impression." (See also[77] in The Guardian). The same authors (Pierre Ballester and David Walsh) subsequently published "L.A. Official" and "Le Sale Tour" (The Dirty Trick), further pressing their claims that Armstrong used performance-enhancing drugs throughout his career.
On March 31, 2005, Mike Anderson filed a brief[78] in Travis County District Court in Texas, as part of a legal battle following his termination in November 2004 as an employee of Armstrong. Anderson worked for Armstrong for two years as a personal assistant. In the brief, Anderson claimed that he discovered a box of androstenone while cleaning a bathroom in Armstrong's apartment in Girona, Spain.[79] Androstenone is not on the list of banned drugs. Anderson stated in a subsequent deposition that he had no direct knowledge of Armstrong using a banned substance. Armstrong denied the claim and issued a counter-suit.[80] The two men reached an out-of-court settlement in November 2005; the terms of the agreement were not disclosed.[81]
In June 2006, French newspaper Le Monde reported claims by Betsy and Frankie Andreu during a deposition that Armstrong had admitted using performance-enhancing drugs to his physician just after brain surgery in 1996. The Andreus' testimony was related to litigation between Armstrong and SCA Promotions, a Texas company attempting to withhold a $5-million bonus; this was settled out of court with SCA paying Armstrong and Tailwind Sports $7.5 million, to cover the $5-million bonus plus interest and lawyers' fees. The testimony stated "And so the doctor asked him a few questions, not many, and then one of the questions he asked was... have you ever used any performance-enhancing drugs? And Lance said yes. And the doctor asked, what were they? And Lance said, growth hormone, cortisone, EPO, steroids and testosterone."[82] Armstrong suggested Betsy Andreu may have been confused by possible mention of his post-operative treatment which included steroids and EPO that are taken to counteract wasting and red-blood-cell-destroying effects of intensive chemotherapy.[83] The Andreus' allegation was not supported by any of the eight other people present, including Armstrong's doctor Craig Nichols,[84] or his medical history. According to Greg LeMond (who has been embroiled with his own disputes with Armstrong), he (LeMond) had a recorded conversation,[85] the transcript of which was reviewed by National Public Radio, with Stephanie McIlvain (Armstrong's contact at Oakley Inc.) in which she said of Armstrong's alleged admission 'You know, I was in that room. I heard it.' However, McIlvain has contradicted LeMond allegations on the issue and denied under oath that the incident in question ever occurred in her sworn testimony.[82]
In July 2006, the Los Angeles Times published a story on the allegations raised in the SCA case.[86] The report cited evidence at the trial including the results of the LNDD test and an analysis of these results by an expert witness.[87] From the LA Times article: "The results, Australian researcher Michael Ashenden testified in Dallas, show Armstrong's levels rising and falling, consistent with a series of injections during the Tour. Ashenden, a paid expert retained by SCA Promotions, told arbitrators the results painted a "compelling picture" that the world's most famous cyclist "used EPO in the '99 Tour."[86] Ashenden's finding were disputed by the Vrijman report, which pointed to procedural and privacy issues in dismissing the LNDD test results. The LA Times article also provided information on testimony given by Armstrong's former teammate, Swart, Andreu and his wife Betsy and instant messaging conversation between Andreu and Jonathan Vaughters regarding blood-doping in the peloton. Vaughters signed a statement disavowing the comments and stating he had: "no personal knowledge that any team in the Tour de France, including Armstrong's Discovery team in 2005, engaged in any prohibited conduct whatsoever." Andreu signed a statement affirming the conversation took place as indicated on the instant messaging logs submitted to the court. The SCA trial was settled out of court, and the LA Times reported: "Though no verdict or finding of facts was rendered, Armstrong called the outcome proof that the doping allegations were baseless." The L.A. Times' article provides a review of the disputed positive EPO test, allegations and sworn testimony against Armstrong, but notes that: "They are filled with conflicting testimony, hearsay and circumstantial evidence admissible in arbitration hearings but questionable in more formal legal proceedings."[88]
On May 20, 2010, former U.S. Postal teammate Floyd Landis accused Armstrong of doping in 2002 and 2003, and claimed that U.S. Postal team director Johan Bruyneel had bribed former UCI president Hein Verbruggen to keep quiet about a positive Armstrong test in 2002.[89][90] Landis admitted there was no documentation that supports these claims.[91] However, in July 2010 the president of the UCI, Pat McQuaid, revealed that Armstrong made two donations to the UCI: $25,000 in 2002, used by the juniors anti-doping program, and $100,000 in 2005, to buy a blood testing machine, and documentation of those payments does exist.[92] Landis also maintains that he witnessed Armstrong receiving multiple blood transfusions, and dispensing testosterone patches to his teammates on the United States Postal Service Team.[93] On May 25, 2010, The International Cycling Union disputed comments from Floyd Landis, "Due to the controversy following the statements made by Floyd Landis, the International Cycling Union wishes to stress that none of the tests revealed the presence of EPO in the samples taken from riders at the 2001 Tour of Switzerland," the UCI said in a statement. "The UCI has all the documentation to prove this fact." According to ESPN, "Landis claimed that Armstrong tested positive while winning in 2002, a timeline Armstrong himself said left him 'confused,' because he did not compete in the event in 2002."[94]
In May 2011, former Armstrong teammate Tyler Hamilton told CBS News that he and Armstrong had together taken EPO before and during the 1999, 2000, and 2001 Tours de France. Armstrong's attorney, Mark Fabiani, responded that Hamilton was lying.[95] The accompanying 60 Minutes investigation alleged that two other former Armstrong teammates, Frankie Andreu and George Hincapie, have told federal investigators that they witnessed Armstrong taking banned substances, including EPO, or supplied Armstrong with such substances.[95] Fabiani stated in response that, "We have no way of knowing what happened in the grand jury and so can't comment on these anonymously sourced reports."[96] Hamilton further claimed that Armstrong tested positive for EPO during the 2001 Tour de Suisse; 60 Minutes reported that the Union Cycliste Internationale intervened to conceal those test results, and that donations from Armstrong totaling US$125,000 may have played into said actions.[95] Martial Saugy, chief of the Swiss anti-doping agency, later confirmed that they found four urine samples suspicious of EPO use at the 2001 race, but said there was no "positive test" and claimed not to know whether the suspicious results belonged to Armstrong. As a result, Armstrong's lawyers demanded an apology from 60 Minutes.[97] Instead of apologizing, CBS News chairman Jeff Fager said CBS News stands by its report as "truthful, accurate and fair", and added that the suspicious tests which Saugy confirmed to exist have been linked to Armstrong "by a number of international officials".[98]
On February 2, 2012, U.S. federal prosecutors officially dropped their criminal investigation with no charges.[99]
1999 Tour de France urine testsOn August 23, 2005, L'Équipe, a major French daily sports newspaper, reported on its front page under the headline "le mensonge Armstrong" ("The Armstrong Lie") that 6 urine samples taken from the cyclist during the prologue and five stages of the 1999 Tour de France, frozen and stored since at "Laboratoire national de dépistage du dopage de Châtenay-Malabry" (LNDD), had tested positive for erythropoietin (EPO) in recent retesting conducted as part of a research project into EPO testing methods.[100][101] Armstrong immediately replied on his website, saying, "Unfortunately, the witch hunt continues and tomorrow's article is nothing short of tabloid journalism. The paper even admits in its own article that the science in question here is faulty and that I have no way to defend myself. They state: 'There will therefore be no counter-exam nor regulatory prosecutions, in a strict sense, since defendant's rights cannot be respected.' I will simply restate what I have said many times: I have never taken performance enhancing drugs."[102] In October 2008, the AFLD gave Armstrong the opportunity to have samples taken during the 1998 and 1999 Tours de France retested.[103] Armstrong immediately refused, saying, "the samples have not been maintained properly." Head of AFLD Pierre Bordry stated: "Scientifically there is no problem to analyze these samples – everything is correct" and "If the analysis is clean it would have been very good for him. But he doesn't want to do it and that's his problem."[104]
In October 2005, in response to calls from the International Olympic Committee and the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) for an independent investigation, the UCI appointed Dutch lawyer Emile Vrijman to investigate the handling of urine tests by the French national anti-doping laboratory, LNDD. Vrijman was head of the Dutch anti-doping agency for ten years; since then he has worked as a defense attorney defending high-profile athletes against doping charges.[105] Vrijman's report cleared Armstrong because of improper handling and testing.[106][107] The report said tests on urine samples were conducted improperly and fell so short of scientific standards that it was "completely irresponsible" to suggest they "constitute evidence of anything."[108] The recommendation of the commission's report was no disciplinary action against any rider on the basis of LNDD research. It also called upon the WADA and LNDD to submit themselves to an investigation by an outside independent authority.[109] The WADA rejected these conclusions stating "The Vrijman report is so lacking in professionalism and objectivity that it borders on farcical."[110] The IOC Ethics Commission subsequently censured Dick Pound, the President of WADA and a member of the IOC, for his statements in the media that suggested wrongdoing by Armstrong.
In April 2009, Dr. Michael Ashenden said that "the LNDD absolutely had no way of knowing athlete identity from the sample they're given. They have a number on them, but that's never linked to an athlete's name. The only group that had both the number and the athlete's name is the federation, in this case it was the UCI." He added "There was only two conceivable ways that synthetic EPO could've gotten into those samples. One, is that Lance Armstrong used EPO during the '99 Tour. The other way it could've got in the urine was if, as Lance Armstrong seems to believe, the laboratory spiked those samples. Now, that's an extraordinary claim, and there's never ever been any evidence the laboratory has ever spiked an athlete's sample, even during the Cold War, where you would've thought there was a real political motive to frame an athlete from a different country. There's never been any suggestion that it happened."[111]
Dr. Michael Ashenden's statements are at odds with the findings of the Vrijman report. "According to Mr. Ressiot, the manner in which the LNDD had structured the results table of its report – i.e. listing the sequence of each of the batches, as well as the exact number of urine samples per batch, in the same (chronological) order as the stages of the 1999 Tour de France they were collected at – was already sufficient to allow him to determine the exact stage these urine samples referred to and subsequently the identity of the riders who were tested at that stage." The Vrijman report also says "Le Monde of July 21 and 23, 1999 reveal that the press knew the contents of original doping forms of the 1999 Tour de France".[109]
2012 USADA chargesIn June 2012, the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) officially charged Armstrong with doping and trafficking of drugs, based on blood samples from 2009 and 2010, and testimonies from other cyclists. Armstrong, denying all doping use in a statement,[112][113] was suspended from competition in cycling and triathlon.[114][115] Armstrong was charged in a letter from USADA, along with five others including former team manager Johan Bruyneel.[116] USADA says Armstrong used banned substances, including the blood-booster EPO and steroids, as well as blood transfusions dating back to 1986.[117]
On July 9, 2012, Armstrong filed a lawsuit in federal court in Austin, Texas against the USADA, which a judge threw out later the same day because the pleading was too long.[118] The following day, Armstrong filed a revised lawsuit against the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, once again asking to stop the agency from stripping his seven Tour de France titles and banning him from sport for life if he fails to submit to arbitration over alleged doping violations.[119] Also on July 10, the USADA announced lifetime bans against three of his former U.S. Postal Service cycling team associates: Luis Garcia del Moral, a team doctor, Michele Ferrari, a consulting doctor, and Jose "Pepe" Marti, team trainer.[120] Armstrong's lawsuit claimed that USADA did not have jurisdiction and that his right to due process was being violated. U.S. District Judge Sam Sparks issued his ruling on August 20, 2012.[121] While ruling in favor of USADA he did however question the timing and the motivation of the USADA's investigation of Armstrong, and their apparent "single minded determination to force Armstrong to arbitrate" but also noting "in direct conflict with UCI's equally evident desire not to proceed against him". Sparks affirmed the USADA had the authority to investigate Armstrong, and that Armstrong's right to due process could not be violated by the USADA before any proceedings occur.[122] Three days later, Armstrong, while maintaining his innocence, decided to end his fight against USADA instead of having the case arbitrated.[123]
Armstrong's decision to stop fighting USADA means he forfeits, in the eyes of USADA, all awards and prizes earned after August 1, 1998, including his Tour titles, and is banned from any sport that uses the World Anti-Doping Code.[117][124] As of August 24, 2012, the UCI was waiting for a reasoned decision from USADA, before any action would be taken.[125]
On August 30, 2012, the French Cycling Federation came forward in support of the USADA decision stating that "Armstrong's refusal to contest USADA's accusations sounds like an admission of his guilt with regards to breaches of anti-doping regulation." The FFC wants the vacated positions to not be reassigned. The FFC also announced they "wants reimbursement of Lance Armstrong's prizes obtained during the Tour de France and other competitions for an amount assessed at 2.95 million Euros for the development of cycling among the youth and the prevention of doping." [126]
Seems to me there are an awful lot of people with evidence against Armstrong ... whose real name is Lance Gundersen for you trivia buffs out there ... whats the old saying "I'm ok, the rest of the world is &^%$ed up"
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 31, 2012 16:27:13 GMT -5
Cheating and fraud have always been part of the sports landscape, it seems....and not getting caught is just as good as playing by the rules. Integrity in 100% pure form is a rare find. Ben Johnson was not only stripped of his 1988 World Record and Olympic Gold, but also of his 1st place finish and World Record set in Rome in 1987. Why? He wasn't caught in 1987. Was there a hue and cry to retain the 87 title and record? Nope. Good riddance to a cheater. That was the sentiment then...and he's still branded with the disgrace. I think it's common knowledge, though, that he WAS the fastest cheater in a sea of cheaters....just not the smartest. Maybe it would've helped his cause if he'd started a charity in the mid-80s. I was stung big time by the Ben Johnson revelation. Was watching it on German TV. My German wasn't that good but I knew Ben was in trouble. Then I heard it later that day on the Canadian Forces Network. True story: Europeans take their athletics very seriously. Week-long TV coverage for major meets. After Johnson was busted, Mrs Dis and I were pulling up to a toll booth to a ferry in Denmark (same year). The operator there asked me in very good English, "Ah Canadians ... what about Ben Johnson?!" He was nice about it, but he associated that debacle with being Canadian but he was serious. He really wanted to know what I thought about the whole thing. I had no response for him. But, Johnson was jacked to the max. His eyes were yellow and there were external indicators on his body that showed it. Like Johnson, I admired what Armstrong accomplished. I even would have liked to see him win a few more Tour de France races. But, deciding to bow out at this juncture suggests to me that he has no more defence and that his empire is starting to crumble. Hated to see either of these guys go down. But ... if the rules don't apply to everyone then they cease to be rules. Cheers. |
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 31, 2012 17:40:28 GMT -5
Ben Johnson was not only stripped of his 1988 World Record and Olympic Gold, but also of his 1st place finish and World Record set in Rome in 1987. Why? Huge difference IMO. Johnson got caught when doing a test. Just like Landis, did the test, failed, you're busted. Armstrong never tested positive, and now 10 years later, the USADA is claiming "new evidence"... I'm just questioning why they also stripped him of the 1987 achievements, when he obviously didn't test positive then, if he was tested at all. I recall Carl Lewis was doing an awful lot of public complaining and alleging back then....as Johnson was beating him regularly. In 2009, Lewis also suggested that Bolt and the other Jamaican sprinters were suspect. "Wow, that’s a huge improvement in a year. And in the 100m it’s gone from ten flat to nine seven. It’s a huge improvement."
"We’ve (Americans) dominated and then all of a sudden, one Olympics and these Jamaicans come along and run these crazy times and performances and all of a sudden everyone says now they are the fastest. It’s like everyone just lays down.
"Really, it’s ridiculous."Yeah, the American sprinters have all been clean... ...talk about ridiculous. How about this tidbit from 2003.... Olympic legend Carl Lewis is among more than 100 American athletes involved in a cover-up of drug use, documents reveal.
Lewis and two of his training partners all took the same three types of banned stimulants and were caught at the 1988 US Olympic trials, according to the documents released by a disgruntled former senior US anti-doping official, Dr Wade Exum.
But on appeal to their national Olympic committee, all were cleared of inadvertent doping. Two months later, at the Seoul Olympics, Lewis finished second in the 100 metres sprint. But when Canadian Ben Johnson failed his Olympic drug test, Lewis was awarded the 100m gold.
Lewis also won the Olympic long jump - as part of his career tally of nine Olympic gold medals - and his training partner, Joe De Loach, won the 200m in Seoul.
Lewis's lawyer, Martin Singer, has responded to the revelations by saying his client had taken only a herbal remedy.
"Carl did nothing wrong," Mr Singer told The Orange County Register. "There was never intent."
The latest documents show Lewis tested positive for the banned stimulants found in cold medications: pseudoephedrine, ephedrine and phenylpropanolamine.
The World Anti-Doping Agency's chairman, Dick Pound, dismissed the "no intent" defence. Mr Pound has seen copies of the documents and said that in some instances there was almost "automatic forgiveness" by the US officials.
Letters written by a US Olympic Committee executive, Baaron Pittenger, were sent advising some athletes of their positive drug-test results - and at the same time told them they were being cleared.
"It's got to be pretty embarrassing to the USOC," said Mr Pound, "to have their secretary-general writing in the letter, where he advises an athlete of a positive A sample, 'I have to send you this, but we already decided this was inadvertent.' That whole process turned into a joke."
Dr Exum said there were more than 100 positive tests for US athletes who won 19 Olympic medals between 1988 and 2000, but many were allowed to keep competing.Imagine that....the best masking agents are your own officials AFTER you've tested positive....at least in some countries. |
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