Subban for Kane ?

[Doc Holliday]

...just internet winds pushing this but since there's nothing much going on, why not:

Evander Kane+Ron Hainsey for Subban, Eller, Bourque

What do you think?

[blny]

I think it's funny there's a rumour about using Subban to acquire Kane. People ... I mean sheep ... question Subban's attitude and character regularly, but there have been stories about Evander's attitude in the last year. And then there's Hainsey.

Personally, I wouldn't make this deal. Subban is worth more to me than Kane.

[jkr]

At first I thought you were talking about Patrick Kane.

These rumors concern me because of Therrien's public criticism of Subban when he was a TV commentator. Finding dominant young D man is difficult. Sign the guy & hang on to him.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

No, I wouldn't do that one. I wouldn't even entertain trading Subban for that matter. He's our best defenceman and we should get someone's "best player" in return.

Cheers.

[seventeen]

I thought it was Patrick Kane, too, and in that case, even up, I'd do it. Subban for Evander Kane even up is a much closer trade, thought I think D-men are more valuable than forwards, so carry a premium. The spare parts thrown in don't do it for me.

[madhabber]

We go absolutely nowhere if we don't have a #1 D. Does Hainsey become our #1 D. No, he is 2nd pair at best maybe even 3rd. You'd have to think that Markov reclaims his spot, but I'm not convinced. Far from it based on last year. The Jets have Bogosian, they don't need PK. Kane is a player I'd love to have, but the price will need to include someone else because we can't afford to have the worst D in hockey just to upgrade our forwards.

When we traded Chelios we at least had Desjardins, Schneider, and Lefebvre ready to step in and all had NHL games under their belt. This time around, Beaulieu, Tinordi, and Ellis are not ready. They don't even have AHL game experience yet. So a big NO from me.

[sergejean]

No thanks. I keep PK and work with him to maximize his talent.

[Forum Ghost]

I would also keep PK. As much as I like Kane, PK is just beginning to scratch the surface of his potential and trading him would be a mistake. He has the skills, ability and raw talent to be one of the best defenceman in the game.

[BadCompany]

Kane is going to be a very, very good player, for a long time, so it would be hard to dismiss that out of hand. Having two 35 goal power-forwards in Kane and Pacioretty anchoring your offense would be nice indeed.

But of course you're opening up a huge hole on your blueline to do so. If I thought that one - or both - of Tinordi or Beaulieu were ready (or close to ready) to assuming a #1 role (like, say in 2 years) then I would be seriously tempted. But honestly, I'm not all that high on either Tinordi or Beaulieu (yet?). So I keep my bird in hand.

[blny]

If we had a replacement for Subban ready, I'd consider a trade that landed us a Kane type. He is a dynamic player, and I agree with BC that having another young power forward would be great.

I think Tinordi and Beaulieu are going to be good NHLers. If there is one of the two that concern me a bit, it's Nathan. I think he could max out as a 5-6 guy who's strictly a power play specialist. We'll see.

[BadCompany]

Yeah, somewhat off topic, but I’m concerned about both Beaulieu and Tinordi. Neither one of them seems to be the sharpest knife in the drawer. Granted, I’ve never met either of them, but Beaulieau’s twitter handle is n8THEggr8 and he actually tattooed his own name on himself. Not sure if he’s egotistical or just stupid. Of course that doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll be a bad hockey player, but it’s kind of weird anyways. As for Tinordi, I don’t know… I’ve always subscribed to the theory that if you’re going to be an NHL player, and a good NHL player, then you should be a dominant player at the lower levels, especially junior. We’re talking about a huge kid here, who is physically bigger and stronger than just about everyone else on the ice. He should be able to impose his will just about anywhere, including the offensive zone. I’m not saying he has to put up a hundred points or anything, but 16? You can almost get 16 by accident, just by clearing the puck up the boards. I would think that if he was so great he should be getting all the prime minutes, offensive and defensive, and that if he had any hockey smarts whatsoever he’d be picking up points all over the place, even as a “defensive” defenseman. His physical skill-set alone means he should be able to whatever he wants, and with any modicum of hockey-sense he’d be able to control the puck and make offensive plays. But he’s not. Which leads me to believe that he either isn’t all that smart, hockey-wise, or he has serious self-confidence issues, a la Komisarek, and is content, already, to play within his physical ability.

Sooo… just to bring it back to the point of the original post, I wouldn’t trade Subban because I don’t have enough confidence that either Beaulieu or Tinordi will be able to replace him, either now or in the future.

[blny]

Tinordi really stepped up his physical game this last year. I think the stumbling block for him was playing in the USHL honestly. He may never be a Kevin Stevens type, but I don't think he'll be as timid as Hal Gill either.

[madhabber]

Tinordi will never replace Subban. Never. Tinordi replaces a Hal Gill or Mike Komisarek (when he was paired with Markov). In a couple years or so, if everything goes smoothly, he should be paired with Subban as the Habs' first pairing. No PP time, just even strength and the first guy on the ice for the PK.

Beaulieu, I don't know but I see him more as a Brisebois type. I hope he becomes better than that and if he does become that #1 D, then great, but from the little I've seen on tv, that's what I see in him. A second pairing D, who goes on the first PP with Subban. PK time only when you're short a couple of D.

Ellis, many see a Josh Gorges type in him. I think a better comparable for him will be Craig Rivet. Both close to the same size. Shoot right. Add some toughness, good in his own zone, can chip in offensively and brings leadership skills. He should be on the 2nd pairing with Beaulieu in a few years and also on the 2nd wave of the PP. 1st or 2nd wave of the PK also.

The other D's, from what I know of them at this point, Thrower, Dietz, Pateryn, Nash, St.Denis, Bennett etc, are 2nd-3rd pairings or simply AHL material maybe. So I don't see any ready made replacement in the organization for Subban except maybe Beaulieu and he won't be ready for that role for at least 2 years.

We could get lucky and draft Seth Jones next June, but that is still 1 year away plus at least 1 year to acclimatize to the NHL. Still 2 years from being a #1 D.

The last option is to trade or sign one. Signing one isn't going to happen this year, none left of that type. Trading would cost us assets and create a hole elsewhere.

So for the foreseeable future, Subban stays, no matter how much we like the guy on the other side.

[NWTHabsFan]

I just don't think you trade a young defenseman like Subban unless you get an incredible return. Our depth on defense is actually not that great going into the season (if it happens) as a loss of his minutes would mean the other guys would be instantly over-taxed. I have seen that movie before the last few seasons due to Markov's injury.

As others have mentioned relative to the top defensive prospects, none are ready and able to step into the kind of ice time and role that Subban has been able to take on over the past two seasons. Beaulieu is the big question mark for me, as he has the talent to be a really good defender in the league. Will he reach that potential or will he be another Hollywood Hainsey? Tinordi will likely be a more mobile and more nasty Hal Gill, which is good to have a guy like that who can eat minutes. I just don't see much if any offense out of him at the NHL level. There are a lot of other guys who could also end up having decent NHL careers amongst our defensive prospects, but none are anywhere close to being either proven or ready to step in within a year.

The other unknown to me is which Markov will return this season (whenever that season begins). If it is the Markov of old, then our D looks surprisingly better than last season. If it is the tentative and slower Markov of the end of last season, then a guy like Subban will be needed to eat lots of minutes again. No more Campolis please!

[seventeen]

To BC's post....I don't know if Bealieu is that dumb. It took me 10 seconds to figure out his twitter meant Nate the Great as in Tony the Tiger. That's longer than it normally takes me. Maybe it was his spelling. Egotistical? Probably. I'm much higher on Tinordi. I think he'll be what we might have hoped Gill would be, a shutdown guy with speed and hands. After you pick yourself up off the floor and stop laughing, perhaps I might have used another analogy. It will take Tinordi a year or 2 to get there.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

I really like Subban. Young, talented, confident, brash, coach able, improving, workhorse, fast, skilled. If he has to be traded, the return has to be GREAT, not Kane.
Keep Subban, the best is yet to come!

[NWTHabsFan]

Aug 29, 2012 21:21:05 GMT -5 Habs_fan_in_LA said:

I really like Subban. Young, talented, confident, brash, coach able, improving, workhorse, fast, skilled. If he has to be traded, the return has to be GREAT, not Kane.
Keep Subban, the best is yet to come!

Yup. This^^^.

[Cranky]

NO.