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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Sept 14, 2004 18:00:04 GMT -5
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Post by FormerLurker on Sept 14, 2004 18:11:17 GMT -5
Huh? How did this happen? Could there be a deal in the works with Columbus? Gainey had absolutely no reason to put him on waivers.
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Post by montreal on Sept 14, 2004 18:22:59 GMT -5
Huh? How did this happen? Could there be a deal in the works with Columbus? Gainey had absolutely no reason to put him on waivers. Players that need to clear waivers to play in the AHL, have to clear by tomorrow. I assume that they tried to get Beauchemin back in Hamilton and it backfired. Sucks, cause I like the game he played. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Sept 14, 2004 19:04:32 GMT -5
Too bad. I also liked Beauchemin's hard-nosed game. Oh well, looks like Columbus picks uo a solid young d-man.
Smoothes the path for Hainsey. Is that a good thing for Ron? He strikes me as the type who needs some rocks on the road.
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Post by blaise on Sept 14, 2004 20:10:07 GMT -5
And beyond Hainsey, who could step up? The depth at D looks frayed and worn.
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Post by Goldthorpe on Sept 14, 2004 20:30:17 GMT -5
I don't think Beauchemin had a big future in Montreal, since I don't see him having a realistic shot of cracking the D. So, good for him. Nice pickup for Colombus.
Now, I think our lack of prospect depth in defense is even more obvious. Sure, we have a couple of huge fridges still a few years away, but no real blueship puck moving defenseman beyond maybe Hainsey to replace the like of Brisebois. I hope this will be addressed in the next draft.
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Post by blaise on Sept 14, 2004 21:34:23 GMT -5
And in how many years will the first D prospect be playing for the Habs? In this respect a lockout would be a blessing. Of course, in other respects it would be a sorrow.
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Post by blny on Sept 14, 2004 21:37:41 GMT -5
It's an unfortunate loss, but I don't think it will make a huge impact on the club. Beauchy is a fringe NHLer IMO. I don't think he has the size and overall game to be an everyday NHLer. He would have been nice to have around fo injuries, but that's it.
If it wasn't clear before, it is now. Hainsey will be in Montreal for all of the next season (whenever that is). Ron needs the push. He needs to be in Montreal to either make it, or end the torment. You hear that Ron? No more Hollywood Hainsey.
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Post by HabbaDasher on Sept 14, 2004 23:41:25 GMT -5
I'm with Blaise.
What happens if we get a few injuries?
Where's the depth?
Maybe the Habs are resigned to keeping Dykhuis if there's a season?
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Post by blny on Sept 15, 2004 6:39:32 GMT -5
I'm with Blaise. What happens if we get a few injuries? Where's the depth? Maybe the Habs are resigned to keeping Dykhuis if there's a season? Depth is an issue. After Dykhuis the pickens get slim for NHL ready defencemen. Heck, (dare I say it but) even Traverse would have been worth having around in a pinch. With Beauchy gone, that leaves us with: Markov Rivet Souray Komisarek Brisebois Hainsey Bouillon Dykhuis Cote As I see it, that is likely the top 9 in terms of depth. If we lose more than two to injury we could be in real trouble. Perhaps Gainey knew what we feel in the pit of our stomach: it's going to be a long lockout. Once resolved we can fix the issue, and by that time some pricey blueliners will be off the books. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Sept 15, 2004 7:42:23 GMT -5
I think depth is alright. Counting on 8 NHL dmen is a lot. Many teams count on 6, with a 7th guy who's really a fringe one. We'll have to sustain 3 simultaneous injuries before going to Cote. And then again there is Archer, O'Byrn, Korpikari, etc...
I don't think Beauchemin was going to get much of a chance here and I'm happy for him if he gets one in Columbus.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Sept 15, 2004 8:18:30 GMT -5
Heck, (dare I say it but) even Traverse would have been worth having around in a pinch. Dallas will likely send him to Hamilton. We will just have to drool with envy. |
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Post by Rimmer on Sept 15, 2004 8:22:36 GMT -5
We'll have to sustain 3 simultaneous injuries before going to Cote. And then again there is Archer, O'Byrn, Korpikari, etc... I don't think the latter two can be called upon. isn't O'Byrne in college and Korpikari in Finland? btw, i agree that 8 dmen is a solid depth R. |
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Post by blny on Sept 15, 2004 8:32:40 GMT -5
I think depth is alright. Counting on 8 NHL dmen is a lot. Many teams count on 6, with a 7th guy who's really a fringe one. We'll have to sustain 3 simultaneous injuries before going to Cote. And then again there is Archer, O'Byrn, Korpikari, etc... I don't think Beauchemin was going to get much of a chance here and I'm happy for him if he gets one in Columbus. I agree that Beauchy wasn't going to progress with us. I hope he gets a good chance in Columbus. That said, I don't know if Archer, O'Byrne or Korpikari are ready for any NHL duty. I could see Cote getting a call up. He really impressed people last year, and it got him a contract. He physical and mean. I agree that there are some very good prospects in Hamilton (including Shasby perhaps), but I'm not sure many of them are ready for primetime. I also don't see many puck carriers on the list. That worries me too. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Sept 15, 2004 8:42:52 GMT -5
O'Byrne and Korpikari must be signed before they can even be considered for any role with the Habs.
The "loss" of Traverse and Vydareny takes a nip out of the depth.
Hainsey, Dykhuis and Côté ensure some flexiblity when injuries hit. Who knows, maybe young Archer will get a taste, dependent on his progress. Flood will likely be too raw at this point.
Gainey should be able to easily pick up some MOR filler.
Hainsey
Dykhuis
Côté<br>Archer
--
Shasby ?
Flood
O'Byrne
Korpikari (I've got a hunch this guy becomes a fixture)
Korneev
Yemelin
Linhart
Dulac-Lemelin
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Post by Habit on Sept 15, 2004 8:50:43 GMT -5
I believe, according to the rules, if the Blue Jackets want to send him down to the minors, the Habs will get him back. The same thing happened to Boullion a few years back when he was claimed by Nashville and then sent back to the Habs. Don't count him out yet. This might just be a sneak play by the GM's.  |
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Post by BadCompany on Sept 15, 2004 9:11:00 GMT -5
So much for my "eight defensemen" theory.  Kind of sucks for Beauchemin, especially if, as habit points out, the Blue Jackets can't send him down to the minors without fearing of losing him back to Montreal. Means he won't be playing for a year or more. But what does this mean for Hainsey and Hossa? Since they have one-way contracts (does Hossa?), and they have to clear waivers too, does this mean they won't be playing the AHL?? That would really suck for their development. Hossa could probably play in Europe (with his brother?) but Hainsey? I know he is slated to play in the OSHL league, but really... As for the defense depth, as habit pointed out, we could get him back, and as Doc also pointed out, we'd have to be pretty unlucky to have three guys go down long term, before our depth gets really tested. In that case, I'm sure there are a lot of fringe depth guys who could be signed (Tverdovsky, for example). Course, this is all assuming they start playing again within 2 years. Otherwise, by the time they get back guys like Archer, Flood, Korpikari and so on might be ready anyways. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Sept 15, 2004 9:50:16 GMT -5
I think in any "normal" year, the loss of the following pro defencemen at the NHL and AHL level would have had Bob Gainey scrambling: Quintal, Traverse, Beauchemin, and Vydareny (with honourable mention to Plante who is still a UFA and likely off the radar screen it would appear). However, with an announcement today likely confirming that Bob has a bit more time on his hands to deal with this gap, I am a little less worried.
I like the young defence core that will likely be poised to make a mark in 3 or so years, as Korpikari, Archer, O'Byrne, Korneev and Yemelin all show some promise. However, there is now a gap in NHL and AHL ready defencemen that likely will have to be addressed in the interim. Gainey quietly made Hamilton a lot tougher and meaner up front with some free agent signings over the summer, so I am sure he has some close to the vest plans for his D.
In the interim, it gives young Shasby a good shot at Hamilton, and I hope he does well as he seemed to do quite well in the ECHL last season. Management may also take another step along the youth movement that is alive and well and give Flood a chance with a pro contract. If Korpikari has another good year in the sm-liiga, I wouldn't be surprised to see him signed and playing in Hamilton a year from now.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Sept 15, 2004 12:43:02 GMT -5
I think in any "normal" year, the loss of the following pro defencemen at the NHL and AHL level would have had Bob Gainey scrambling: Quintal, Traverse, Beauchemin, and Vydareny (with honourable mention to Plante who is still a UFA and likely off the radar screen it would appear). However, with an announcement today likely confirming that Bob has a bit more time on his hands to deal with this gap, I am a little less worried. I like the young defence core that will likely be poised to make a mark in 3 or so years, as Korpikari, Archer, O'Byrne, Korneev and Yemelin all show some promise. However, there is now a gap in NHL and AHL ready defencemen that likely will have to be addressed in the interim. Gainey quietly made Hamilton a lot tougher and meaner up front with some free agent signings over the summer, so I am sure he has some close to the vest plans for his D. In the interim, it gives young Shasby a good shot at Hamilton, and I hope he does well as he seemed to do quite well in the ECHL last season. Management may also take another step along the youth movement that is alive and well and give Flood a chance with a pro contract. If Korpikari has another good year in the sm-liiga, I wouldn't be surprised to see him signed and playing in Hamilton a year from now. Beauchemin and Quintal are character guys. Beau is a stay at home safe kitty bar the door worker, and Q-ball bleeds for his team and does whatever needs to be done. Still you have to make changes to get better. I wanted to give 6'4" Traverse one last chance, but no big loss there. Hainsey is not a character guy who bleeds for the team and after him we need to hope for an injury free year instead of 300+ games lost. It's like hoping the hurricane doesn't hit you. It would be a shame for this rising team to be gutted by injuries and forced into weak trades to shore up deficiencies. Our farmhands have talent but are not ready for prime time. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Sept 15, 2004 15:24:12 GMT -5
Beauchemin and Quintal are character guys. Beau is a stay at home safe kitty bar the door worker, and Q-ball bleeds for his team and does whatever needs to be done. Still you have to make changes to get better. I wanted to give 6'4" Traverse one last chance, but no big loss there. Hainsey is not a character guy who bleeds for the team and after him we need to hope for an injury free year instead of 300+ games lost. It's like hoping the hurricane doesn't hit you. It would be a shame for this rising team to be gutted by injuries and forced into weak trades to shore up deficiencies. Our farmhands have talent but are not ready for prime time. Still working on a way to combine Q's brain and heart into Hainsey's body and skill set. These experiments keep failing in my Acme Lab. Darn it, back to the lab I go. Whoooohahahaha. The really tough part with Q is that he was a guy who wore the CH on his sleeve, stood up for the boys, etc, but how long does a team keep investing in 35 year old legs in a game that isn't getting any slower. Gainey is steadfast in his move to get younger, bigger, better. Others will have to pick up the heart and soul slack left in his absence. Traverse was everyone's favourite whipping boy, but he was the wrong end of a salary dump trade...so what did we all expect we were getting? I hope he does well and my only regret is the huge experience gap on D that he and Beauchy leave behind in Hamilton. I still think Gainey will plunk someone new into that fold. As for Beauchy, I still think he was always going to be either an injury depth guy at the NHL level or else your vet presence down in the farm. I don't like losing him, and I am sure that Gainey thought the waiver thing was a non issue like last year, but there was a snake in the grass this year. With no hockey at the NHL level in the forseeable future, what a shame for Beauchy who before yesterday at least had the Dogs camp starting at the end of the month to look forward to...now what? |
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Post by blaise on Sept 15, 2004 16:23:02 GMT -5
Beauchemin and a host of other players of his caliber are consequential only if the lockout ends soon. If it goes on for a long time, say 2-3 years, then putting all the Habs' fringe players on waivers right now could actually be helpful, because then Gainey could reload with better, younger, and less expensive players without being burdened with holdover contracts that would resume upon resumption of play. ;D
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Sept 15, 2004 16:52:56 GMT -5
Beauchemin and a host of other players of his caliber are consequential only if the lockout ends soon. If it goes on for a long time, say 2-3 years, then putting all the Habs' fringe players on waivers right now could actually be helpful, because then Gainey could reload with better, younger, and less expensive players without being burdened with holdover contracts that would resume upon resumption of play. ;D Works great if teams take their "sucker" pills and take Dykhuis off our hands, as he earns $1.7M whether he plays in Montreal or Hamilton. Beauchy on the other hand, is probably pretty cheap depth for the Habs and likely only costs in the neighbourhood of $75K while earning his keep in Steeltown. Gainey has actually done a good job of letting a lot of UFA's loose, and culling the herd that way. Dowd, Langdon, Juneau, Perreault, Gratton, Damphousse, Fichaud, Traverse, Dwyer, Plante, Vrdareny all were left to go their merry way. Lots of roster room left for Gainey to wait out the lockout and to lock up some good young talent once play resumes, and likely at less cost. Gainey is using the strategy that you propose. |
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Post by Skilly on Sept 15, 2004 21:20:38 GMT -5
Scotty Bowman once said that he didn't feel comfortable going into the playoffs unless his depth chart on defense was 10 deep. If it was a good enough philosophy for Scotty, then I am weary of "6-7 deep". When your eighth guy is Cote, then you know you have problems on defense. I would say our eighth guy is more likely to be Mark Streit than Cote. (they both have the same NHL experience, but the older Streit maturity may be the deciding factor).
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Post by montreal on Sept 15, 2004 21:41:23 GMT -5
Scotty Bowman once said that he didn't feel comfortable going into the playoffs unless his depth chart on defense was 10 deep. If it was a good enough philosophy for Scotty, then I am weary of "6-7 deep". When your eighth guy is Cote, then you know you have problems on defense. I would say our eighth guy is more likely to be Mark Streit than Cote. (they both have the same NHL experience, but the older Streit maturity may be the deciding factor). Actually the 8th guy is Dykhuis, then either Cote or Archer. |
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Post by Rimmer on Sept 16, 2004 3:54:10 GMT -5
...In that case, I'm sure there are a lot of fringe depth guys who could be signed (Tverdovsky, for example). I think Tverdovsky has a solid and pretty rich contract with Avangard Omsk so i doubt he would come back to be a fringe, depth guy. R. |
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Post by Rimmer on Sept 16, 2004 4:06:22 GMT -5
I would say our eighth guy is more likely to be Mark Streit than Cote. (they both have the same NHL experience, but the older Streit maturity may be the deciding factor). i talked to a guy who lives in Switzerland and he said he didn't think Streit was good enough for the NHL. and since he will have a hard time making the 23-men roster, I doubt he will come to NA to play in the AHL or watch from the pressbox for less money than at home. IMO, if Bob is about to make a move to bolster the depth of our defence, it will come during the waiver draft before the next season starts. R. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Sept 16, 2004 10:59:09 GMT -5
Hmmm, been mulling over Beauchemin's hitting the road.
He had to be put on waivers and pass to make it to Hamilton. My understanding is that Columbus must now either keep him on their NHL roster or put him back on waivers. If the latter then the Habs have first crack at him, and since he has already been put on waivers he can safely be sent to Hamilton.
Have the Habs abd Columbus worked out a scratch-my-back-and-I'll-scratch-your's deal? Time will tell.
*
My bad. I'm a day late and many words too long. habit posted these very thoughts much more succinctly at the top of this page.
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Post by blaise on Sept 16, 2004 12:32:39 GMT -5
Hmmm, been mulling over Beauchemin's hitting the road. He had to be put on waivers and pass to make it to Hamilton. My understanding is that Columbus must now either keep him on their NHL roster or put him back on waivers. If the latter then the Habs have first crack at him, and since he has already been put on waivers he can safely be sent to Hamilton. Have the Habs abd Columbus worked out a scratch-my-back-and-I'll-scratch-your's deal? Time will tell. We'll see soon enough whether there's a deal. If Columbus doesn't put him on waivers in time for him to join the Bulldogs, we'll know they intend keeping him. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Sept 16, 2004 13:02:03 GMT -5
Time will tell.
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Post by Habit on Sept 16, 2004 14:41:05 GMT -5
Didn't Beauchemin, Hainsey and Hossa have to clear waivers to play in Hamilton this year?
We know Hainsey in playing in the OSHL, but what of Hossa? He must be staying in Habs land this year if there is Hockey. If there is no hockey, he must be staying home, and playing there.
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