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Post by jkr on Mar 18, 2013 17:47:57 GMT -5
In TSN's rumour roundup today, Dreger is on record as saying that the Sharks aren't actively shopping Clowe at this point. They are, however, listening to offers. Dreger expects the Sharks would be looking for the following scenario in return: One 2013 1st or two 2013 2nd round picks, a prospect, and maybe another piece. That is an awful lot for a guy with one 60 point season, one 50 point season, never more than 24 goals, and he has yet to score in 22 games this year. He'll be 31 at the start of the next season, and he's got hard miles on his body. On top of that, after paying the ransom to get him, you have to sign him. Given the crop of UFA players this summer, he's going to command a lot on the open market. It's just too much. Is Wilson on drugs? That's a ridiculously high offer for all the reasons you mentioned. If he sticks to that asking price, Clowe won't be going anywhere. |
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Post by GNick99 on Mar 18, 2013 18:02:18 GMT -5
On Hotstove League, Freidman said prices teams are asking is sky high. Wonder if we should move a guy if can get the big return? We'll have a little depth once injured bodes return
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Post by franko on Mar 18, 2013 18:46:35 GMT -5
Clowe is having a terrible year, being 31 and UFA. I wouldn't offer big. Same here. Beside the fact that his production was good the previous 4 years( around the 20 goal range) I am concerned about his drastic drop off this year. No goals so far. Anybody seen him play? What's going on with him? right now here's injured -- shoulder. |
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Post by blny on Mar 18, 2013 19:15:28 GMT -5
No doubt, teams with bits to auction are are starting the bidding high. We'll see who takes the bait. I'd certainly be in favor of trading off an asset or two if the return was astronomical.
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Post by GNick99 on Mar 27, 2013 15:21:05 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Mar 27, 2013 16:12:35 GMT -5
Hahahahahahaha. Help me up, please. Hahahaha. I'll give Wilson a 3rd rounder. Take it or leave it. |
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Post by blny on Mar 27, 2013 16:44:38 GMT -5
Price appears to be dropping at least. Down to two assets from 3. As I don't think Louis Leblanc gives us anything more than what we already have, I'd consider a trade with him. A second asset would be a conditional one.
We have three second rounders. If Clowe comes in and produces, but the team doesn't make it out of the first round the Sharks get nothing else. Clowe produces, and Montreal makes it to ECF, they get a third. If he produces, and Montreal makes the SCF, they get the worst of the 3 seconds. If he produces, and the Habs win it all, the get the middle pick of the three. If he produces and re-signs in Montreal, they get the best of the three.
That's my best offer. Leblanc is a prospect with some promise. He likely still has value above what should be a pick between 24 and 30. If Clowe has no impact, the Sharks get nothing else. If he has an impact, and the Habs advance the pick escalates. He has to have an impact though. It's an impact AND team success.
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Post by duster on Mar 27, 2013 23:32:18 GMT -5
I wouldn't touch him with a thirty nine and half foot pole. At least, not at the rumoured price. I realize he's playing with Gomez of late but, imo, he's not the player he was in the past. At least, he isn't this season. Giving up prime assets like a first rounder in the hope he regains form is wishful thinking.
Pass, big time.
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Post by Skilly on Mar 28, 2013 6:58:59 GMT -5
Price appears to be dropping at least. Down to two assets from 3. As I don't think Louis Leblanc gives us anything more than what we already have, I'd consider a trade with him. A second asset would be a conditional one. We have three second rounders. If Clowe comes in and produces, but the team doesn't make it out of the first round the Sharks get nothing else. Clowe produces, and Montreal makes it to ECF, they get a third. If he produces, and Montreal makes the SCF, they get the worst of the 3 seconds. If he produces, and the Habs win it all, the get the middle pick of the three. If he produces and re-signs in Montreal, they get the best of the three. That's my best offer. Leblanc is a prospect with some promise. He likely still has value above what should be a pick between 24 and 30. If Clowe has no impact, the Sharks get nothing else. If he has an impact, and the Habs advance the pick escalates. He has to have an impact though. It's an impact AND team success. No GM will agree to that .... My conditional pick, if there is to be one, would be contingent on if he signs in Montreal. Clowe makes us an instant contender. I'd give up the first, at best it will be a 22nd pick ... the only thing that would make me hesitate it the "young prospect". It can't be Gallagher, Galchenyuk, or Eller. So that means all we have left to offer is Tinordi or Beaulieu. We won't do that. No one is going to take Leblanc .... so who can we offer up? |
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Post by blny on Mar 28, 2013 7:33:25 GMT -5
Given the return Iggy got, Clowe's value just took a big hit. Boston will no doubt shift focus to Ryane. Do Khokhlachev, Caron and Bartkowski have similar/greater value than Tinordi or Beaulieu? The Russian put up good points in Windsor. He's only played two games in Providence. He's very skilled, but not very big. Caron is a pf type, but didn't put up a lot of points in Providence, and no goals in Boston. Bartkowski is 24! Since 2010, he's played only 11 games for Boston. He's put up okay offensive stats in the AHL, but certainly nothing to write home about. They're numbers Tinordi could easily accomplish imo, all the while being a far greater physical presence. Beaulieu has considerably more upside. The Gals and Eller are untouchable for a rental.
I do think Ryane could get a bit of rejuvenation with a change of scenery. Playing with a fellow Newfie might also be good for him.
I'm not really seeing how anyone of the Boston names offered for Iggy are significantly better, if at all, than Leblanc. The Russian perhaps, but he's only played 2 games as a pro. Like Clowe, a change of scenery may be all that Leblanc needs. Is anyone picked after 22 this year guaranteed to be better?
College players in the end were the return for Iggy, and a first. Does Hankowski have value comparable to Kristo? I don't think so. He's not a Hobey Baker finalist. He's not put up the numbers Danny has. Agostino had a nice career at Yale, but he's a 5th round pick.
Iggy's deal set the bar, and it set the bar low.
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Post by jkr on Mar 28, 2013 7:41:06 GMT -5
Skilly, I like Clowe too but how does he make MTL an instant contender?
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Post by jkr on Mar 28, 2013 7:42:38 GMT -5
Price appears to be dropping at least. Down to two assets from 3. As I don't think Louis Leblanc gives us anything more than what we already have, I'd consider a trade with him. A second asset would be a conditional one. We have three second rounders. If Clowe comes in and produces, but the team doesn't make it out of the first round the Sharks get nothing else. Clowe produces, and Montreal makes it to ECF, they get a third. If he produces, and Montreal makes the SCF, they get the worst of the 3 seconds. If he produces, and the Habs win it all, the get the middle pick of the three. If he produces and re-signs in Montreal, they get the best of the three. That's my best offer. Leblanc is a prospect with some promise. He likely still has value above what should be a pick between 24 and 30. If Clowe has no impact, the Sharks get nothing else. If he has an impact, and the Habs advance the pick escalates. He has to have an impact though. It's an impact AND team success. Maybe in desparation, Boston will overpay for Clowe. They have to do something now to combat the acquisitons of Morrow, Murray & Iginla. |
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Post by blny on Mar 28, 2013 7:48:47 GMT -5
Boston might get desperate, but they wouldn't guarantee the first for Iggy. No way they give up a first for Clowe do they? Can't see it. I can still see the Russian as the focal point of an offer. He's a center. The Sharks are old at that position. Injecting some skilled youth there would benefit them. Caron could perhaps replace Clowe's production someday. I'd say that's his ceiling anyway. Khokhlachev was a second rounder, and Caron was a first. I think we can beat that offer easily and not hugely impact the core group of prospects we hold dearest.
Are we instant contenders? Well, in THIS season we are already imo.
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher
Ryder-Plekanec-Gionta
Clowe/Bourque-Eller-Galchenyuk
Prust-Halpern-Armstrong/Moen
We're a tad stacked on the left side. Not sure how many can mover to the right easily. I think we could use some muscle on D. That's harder to address though.
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Post by sergejean on Mar 28, 2013 7:51:41 GMT -5
Based on the Iggy trade I would offer the Sharks a second tier prospect (someone like Pateryn, Vail, Bozon etc) plus a third round pick. Nothing more. It's not like Clowe is having a good season anyway.
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Post by BadCompany on Mar 28, 2013 8:15:46 GMT -5
I don't know if they are on the market or not, but I'd rather target another Ryan - the one who spells his name right, Malone. Granted, he's hurt right now, but so is Clowe. Malone is also under contract for next season, and unlike Clowe has actually scored this year. Of course if he's out long term, and there is talk about maybe needing surgery, I pass, but it would be something I would want to look into. And heck, I may do it anyways, just to get him for next year.
I'd even try to expand it to include Eric Brewer, who is also under contract for next year. Both Brewer and Malone are pretty cheap, all things considered.
I don't know if Yzerman wants to blow it up, but those two are over 30, and the clock is ticking on them. I don't know what the cost would be, but we do have a bunch of assets that I would be willing to part with; Dumont, Nygren, Ellis, Patryn, those second round picks, Kristo... maybe even Beaulieu (but not Tinordi) and Ryan White.
Hard to say what is "fair" value, but would White, Kristo (Hobey Baker finalist), Nygren (SEL defenseman of the year) and our second round pick be enough? One NHL player, two good prospects and a high-ish pick?
I like that better than overpaying for Clowe to be honest with you. But of course we don't know if that is even remotely feasible.
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Post by blny on Mar 28, 2013 8:17:59 GMT -5
Interesting options BC. Both have extensive playoff experience.
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Post by Skilly on Mar 28, 2013 9:51:25 GMT -5
Given the return Iggy got, Clowe's value just took a big hit. Boston will no doubt shift focus to Ryane. Do Khokhlachev, Caron and Bartkowski have similar/greater value than Tinordi or Beaulieu? The Russian put up good points in Windsor. He's only played two games in Providence. He's very skilled, but not very big. Caron is a pf type, but didn't put up a lot of points in Providence, and no goals in Boston. Bartkowski is 24! Since 2010, he's played only 11 games for Boston. He's put up okay offensive stats in the AHL, but certainly nothing to write home about. They're numbers Tinordi could easily accomplish imo, all the while being a far greater physical presence. Beaulieu has considerably more upside. The Gals and Eller are untouchable for a rental. I do think Ryane could get a bit of rejuvenation with a change of scenery. Playing with a fellow Newfie might also be good for him. I'm not really seeing how anyone of the Boston names offered for Iggy are significantly better, if at all, than Leblanc. The Russian perhaps, but he's only played 2 games as a pro. Like Clowe, a change of scenery may be all that Leblanc needs. Is anyone picked after 22 this year guaranteed to be better? College players in the end were the return for Iggy, and a first. Does Hankowski have value comparable to Kristo? I don't think so. He's not a Hobey Baker finalist. He's not put up the numbers Danny has. Agostino had a nice career at Yale, but he's a 5th round pick. Iggy's deal set the bar, and it set the bar low. You can't compare Clowe, based on Iginla. Iginla is 5 yrs older, and without a doubt, a pure rental. Clowe may still end up testing the market, but teams trying to acquire him will be trying to lock him up. Habs fans are famous, ask any of your non-Habs friends, for over valuing their prospects. And then under-valuing once it comes time to sign them .... Clowe may have not scored this year, but you put him in Montreal, and trust me, come playoff time, we will be screaming for MB to find a way to sign him. |
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Post by Skilly on Mar 28, 2013 9:53:21 GMT -5
Skilly, I like Clowe too but how does he make MTL an instant contender? He will give us three power forwards, lots of grit, lots of heart, and the ability to put out three lines like no other team in the east. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Mar 28, 2013 10:08:26 GMT -5
I'd even try to expand it to include Eric Brewer, who is also under contract for next year. Both Brewer and Malone are pretty cheap, all things considered. Right now I want another dman. We're going to get Prust back and possibly Bourque, although that is looking dicey. I have a hard time trading for a guy who has 0 goals in 26 games! I know he's a big guy, but jeez. I'd consider trying to get Dan Boyle. He has another year on his contract at like $6.6 million (expensive) but I think we can fit him under our cap, assuming Kaberle gets bought out. |
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Post by blny on Mar 28, 2013 11:07:43 GMT -5
Given the return Iggy got, Clowe's value just took a big hit. Boston will no doubt shift focus to Ryane. Do Khokhlachev, Caron and Bartkowski have similar/greater value than Tinordi or Beaulieu? The Russian put up good points in Windsor. He's only played two games in Providence. He's very skilled, but not very big. Caron is a pf type, but didn't put up a lot of points in Providence, and no goals in Boston. Bartkowski is 24! Since 2010, he's played only 11 games for Boston. He's put up okay offensive stats in the AHL, but certainly nothing to write home about. They're numbers Tinordi could easily accomplish imo, all the while being a far greater physical presence. Beaulieu has considerably more upside. The Gals and Eller are untouchable for a rental. I do think Ryane could get a bit of rejuvenation with a change of scenery. Playing with a fellow Newfie might also be good for him. I'm not really seeing how anyone of the Boston names offered for Iggy are significantly better, if at all, than Leblanc. The Russian perhaps, but he's only played 2 games as a pro. Like Clowe, a change of scenery may be all that Leblanc needs. Is anyone picked after 22 this year guaranteed to be better? College players in the end were the return for Iggy, and a first. Does Hankowski have value comparable to Kristo? I don't think so. He's not a Hobey Baker finalist. He's not put up the numbers Danny has. Agostino had a nice career at Yale, but he's a 5th round pick. Iggy's deal set the bar, and it set the bar low. You can't compare Clowe, based on Iginla. Iginla is 5 yrs older, and without a doubt, a pure rental. Clowe may still end up testing the market, but teams trying to acquire him will be trying to lock him up. Habs fans are famous, ask any of your non-Habs friends, for over valuing their prospects. And then under-valuing once it comes time to sign them .... Clowe may have not scored this year, but you put him in Montreal, and trust me, come playoff time, we will be screaming for MB to find a way to sign him. Sure you can compare them. Similar styles. Iggy the far superior player. Even if Iggy is five years older, I'd wager he's got far more gas in the tank. Who's to say Clowe isn't a pure rental? There's no greater guarantee he signs with the team that trades for him (if one does). Every fan over values and under values. It comes from not knowing the prospect pool from the other team. All we can go on is comparable things - stats, where they played, draft position, size, etc. I do my best to be as level objective as I can. I don't see anything about the prospects sent to Calgary to warrant any significant level of excitement. |
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Post by blny on Mar 28, 2013 11:26:00 GMT -5
I'd even try to expand it to include Eric Brewer, who is also under contract for next year. Both Brewer and Malone are pretty cheap, all things considered. Right now I want another dman. We're going to get Prust back and possibly Bourque, although that is looking dicey. I have a hard time trading for a guy who has 0 goals in 26 games! I know he's a big guy, but jeez. I'd consider trying to get Dan Boyle. He has another year on his contract at like $6.6 million (expensive) but I think we can fit him under our cap, assuming Kaberle gets bought out. I thought about Boyle myself, but feel money would have to be going back the other way. I don't know what side he plays. Where does he fit in? I like the idea of Brewer. He has his haters out there, but he's a big body, cheaper than Boyle (though he does have 2 years left on his deal), and he's a plus player on a bad Bolts team. I think there's a more logical fit with him - on the third pair. |
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Post by blny on Mar 28, 2013 11:47:26 GMT -5
Sarich would be another option in Calgary. He'll definitely be available.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 28, 2013 12:20:32 GMT -5
Clowe, Malone and anyone with grit will command a higher price, more in line with a top 6 then what they are. If we can't get those two, I want to improve the bottom end big time. Ell and Galch are team with a water buffalo who is a huge step behind them in talent and speed. The fourth line are monks praying that nobody scores on their shift.
Who I like to bring in a a couple of Stajan like players. They may not be able to take on Luchicks but then again, why bother if it's 5-1. We are NOT three lines of furry, let alone four. Going back to last month when nobody was injured, we could upgrade Armstrong and White. After teh injuries, none of the kids that came up made a difference.
Blunden MAY have a career but it's more journeyman then power forward. Dumont probably is goign to be better but he's not goign to serve what we need from the fourth line. He doesn't bring enough scoring and he certainly not going to give us hard checking.
Four lines of flying furry is what I want built for a run. We have the defense to match and the goaltending to back it up. Remember, four lines, don't forget, four lines, four lines is what we need, hard working four lines. Lines, we need to do lines. Four of them.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 28, 2013 12:22:35 GMT -5
Four lines.
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 1, 2013 9:44:36 GMT -5
As per TSN690.....Lebrun is fully expecting Clowe to be traded today.
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Post by blny on Apr 1, 2013 10:06:38 GMT -5
According to his morning blog, it's "could be traded" today. More teams in the mix. Philadelphia, Montreal, Boston, Minnesota, Vancouver and the Rangers have at least kicked tires. Could be Wilson trying to drive the price up.
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Post by Skilly on Apr 1, 2013 10:27:37 GMT -5
Lebrun saying there is a report out of Newfoundland that Clowe is going to go to Philly ... not sure about that one. I would think that Philly is in more of a sell mode ...
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 1, 2013 10:42:44 GMT -5
Lebrun saying there is a report out of Newfoundland that Clowe is going to go to Philly ... not sure about that one. I would think that Philly is in more of a sell mode ... Flyers are only two points out of the final playoff spot. Rumors are its Couturier going the other way. Rumors are, anyways... |
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Post by blny on Apr 1, 2013 10:49:45 GMT -5
Big young center. Something Sharks need going forward. If true.
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Post by blny on Apr 1, 2013 11:08:43 GMT -5
According to MacKenzie, Philly and Min are front runners for Clowe. Other teams mentioned above still in mix. He thinks 50/50 it happens today.
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