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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 25, 2014 9:46:35 GMT -5
I heard on tsn690 this am that habs and kings are discussing Markov. Not sure who else involved but tinordi was called up to see what he's got so that could mean tinordi and beau added to the D to replace Diaz and Markov?
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Post by Polarice on Feb 25, 2014 10:29:40 GMT -5
I'd take Carter.
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 25, 2014 11:31:13 GMT -5
I heard on tsn690 this am that habs and kings are discussing Markov. Not sure who else involved but tinordi was called up to see what he's got so that could mean tinordi and beau added to the D to replace Diaz and Markov? I heard tht also...they offered him one year deal at 6 million. If this is true sounds like Markov could be moved. Why they called up Tinordi over Beaulieu. See just what they had. I would guess anyway. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Feb 25, 2014 12:00:14 GMT -5
Markov is now well removed from his knee injuries. He played a full 48 games last year and hasn't missed a game yet this year. Yes. he has slowed down a bit but I would argue he actually looks better this year than he did last year. It takes a while to build strength and stamina back in the legs after an injury like that.
In other words, Markov has earned the right to a deal of greater than ONE YEAR! He's 35 years old not 40. You don't go year-to-year on a guy with his talent and history with the organization. I'm fine with the posturing for negotations, but (if true) I think a 1-year offer to Markov is an insult. Berg's baseline should be a 2-year deal with maybe incentives for a 3rd year, and if push comes to shove, you give Markov the 3rd year.
Even at his age and diminished ability, Markov still has elite talent and his minutes, points, leadership, and savvy are very hard to replace. I don't see his performance dropping off that much over the next couple of years. Berg has an annoying habit of playing hard-ball with the guys he should be placating (Subban, Markov) and handing out contracts like Halloween candy to guys like DD and Briere.
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Post by jkr on Feb 25, 2014 13:06:00 GMT -5
Markov is now well removed from his knee injuries. He played a full 48 games last year and hasn't missed a game yet this year. Yes. he has slowed down a bit but I would argue he actually looks better this year than he did last year. It takes a while to build strength and stamina back in the legs after an injury like that. In other words, Markov has earned the right to a deal of greater than ONE YEAR! He's 35 years old not 40. You don't go year-to-year on a guy with his talent and history with the organization. I'm fine with the posturing for negotations, but (if true) I think a 1-year offer to Markov is an insult. Berg's baseline should be a 2-year deal with maybe incentives for a 3rd year, and if push comes to shove, you give Markov the 3rd year. Even at his age and diminished ability, Markov still has elite talent and his minutes, points, leadership, and savvy are very hard to replace. I don't see his performance dropping off that much over the next couple of years. Berg has an annoying habit of playing hard-ball with the guys he should be placating (Subban, Markov) and handing out contracts like Halloween candy to guys like DD and Briere. I'm conflicted aboot this. They should make an all-in committment to him so that he can finish his NHL career in Montreal (2 - 3 years)or trade him now. Don't do what the Flames did with Iginla - ie:make a poor deal for someone past his prime. IMO any deal would have to start with a first rounder, a young player & a prospect. If we are talking about the Kings then the Habs may be targeting Toffoli and or Clifford. |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 25, 2014 13:46:14 GMT -5
Toffoli once played for the Toronto Jr. Canadiens. He''s a right winger, 6'1" 187 lbs or so, and seems to have that scoring ability. Would fit right in.
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 25, 2014 13:59:55 GMT -5
Toffoli once played for the Toronto Jr. Canadiens. He''s a right winger, 6'1" 187 lbs or so, and seems to have that scoring ability. Would fit right in. He also played for the ottawa 67s and is a very good promising prospect imo. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 25, 2014 14:02:48 GMT -5
I love what markov had done for the habs but how many of us crucified BG for letting free agents walk. If MB trades markov and gets something we can really use I am fine with this. It would be nice if markov went to a cup contender, he put up with enough crap years in mtl.
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 25, 2014 14:19:58 GMT -5
Markov is now well removed from his knee injuries. He played a full 48 games last year and hasn't missed a game yet this year. Yes. he has slowed down a bit but I would argue he actually looks better this year than he did last year. It takes a while to build strength and stamina back in the legs after an injury like that. In other words, Markov has earned the right to a deal of greater than ONE YEAR! He's 35 years old not 40. You don't go year-to-year on a guy with his talent and history with the organization. I'm fine with the posturing for negotations, but (if true) I think a 1-year offer to Markov is an insult. Berg's baseline should be a 2-year deal with maybe incentives for a 3rd year, and if push comes to shove, you give Markov the 3rd year. Even at his age and diminished ability, Markov still has elite talent and his minutes, points, leadership, and savvy are very hard to replace. I don't see his performance dropping off that much over the next couple of years. Berg has an annoying habit of playing hard-ball with the guys he should be placating (Subban, Markov) and handing out contracts like Halloween candy to guys like DD and Briere. I agree with you on Markov. Hate to see him go also, as nobody his caliber in our system nor be on the free agent market. He plays a lot of minutes and will leave big hole in our team. Habs must want him back to offer him 6 million one year, but if he wants long term deal and LA willing to move a Toffoli and a first pick can't see Montreal turning it down. |
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Post by franko on Feb 25, 2014 14:49:35 GMT -5
Toffoli once played for the Toronto Jr. Canadiens. He''s a right winger, 6'1" 187 lbs or so, and seems to have that scoring ability. Would fit right in. He also played for the ottawa 67s and is a very good promising prospect imo. yup the 67s seem to find one "good one" a year |
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Post by blny on Feb 25, 2014 15:24:33 GMT -5
If the right deal crossed my desk, I'd do it. Don't think Toffoli would do it for me. Markov on a multi year contract just doesn't make sense anymore. Year to year, I can get behind. You've got cushion as an organization; a buffer for the prospects.
I'm not overly afraid of Markov walking. If ever there was an athlete who'd do anything to stay where he is, it's Andrei. However, if he truly wants a multi year deal, find the best offer out there and weigh it against keeping beyond another year.
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Post by Cranky on Feb 25, 2014 15:35:38 GMT -5
Who is the shortest player on the Kings? What about their AHL club?  The Kings have a number of young defenseman not named Doughty. Voynov, Martinez, Mazzin. Without knowing anything about the players, on paper, Muzzin looks like a nice return. Please Note....I'm not going to bother to discuss if he should go. As far as I'm concerned, every time he sits down to negotiate, Markov is looking to get the best deal possible for himself and is prepared to go elsewhere. So should the Habs. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Feb 25, 2014 15:46:32 GMT -5
I wouldn't do it. I have no firm opinion of Toffoli, but I have no interest in sacrificing current performance for uncertain future return. Markov is a guy we can't replace and we would add a nice but "not a sure thing" forward and maybe a late 1st round draft pick that won't be worth anything for another 3-4 years. And we lose a top pair dman with no replacement in the system? Explain to me how that makes us better right now? I don't see the risk-reward being in our favor. All it does is get Bergvin off the hook for completely botching his job as GM since the day he got here. So now we just need to be patient and hope Toffoli turns into a top 6 forward, and hope Nathan Beaulieu can come close to replacing Andrei Markov.
I'm not saying that Markov for Toffoli and a 1st is a bad trade, but it's not the trade made by a team with contending aspirations. You try and move surplus assets to fill holes, not one of the best players on the team for which there is no replacement.
I would be looking to deal and/or package the likes of Gionta, Gorges, Beaulieu (still not sold on him), and our 1st for an established top 4 dman or a forward.
How about Gorges and Beaulieu or a 1st to Columbus for James Wisniewski? Maybe throw in Gionta to try and get them some extra offense for the stretch run. The Jackets have some nice depth on D with Murray, Johnson, and Tyutin. They don't need the Wiz, who is a right-handed top 4 dman with 3 more years left on his deal at a reasonable $5.5m per year.
No wait. Let's do this:
To Columbus: Gionta, Gorges, Bourque, and Beaulieu or a 1st
To Montreal: Wisniewski and Umberger
The Jackets get a rental in Gionta, they get a solid vet in Gorges for the next 4 years at OK money, and they get a top prospect in Beaulieu or someone comparable. They get stuck with Rene Bourque but he only has 2 years at $3.3m left on his deal, while Umberger has 3 years at $4.6 million. I say that's a fair trade. Plus we get the Wiz who is a solid top 4 guy, shoots right, and has offense.
Pacioretty/DD/Gallagher
Umberger/Pleks/Briere
Galchenyuk/Eller/Bournival/Leblanc
Prust/White/Moen/Weise
Markov/Subban
Emelin/Wisniewski
Tinordi/Bouillon
Then in the summer we figure out how to get rid of DD and Briere, move Galchenyuk to centre, and go from there.
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Post by jkr on Feb 25, 2014 15:46:46 GMT -5
If the right deal crossed my desk, I'd do it. Don't think Toffoli would do it for me. Markov on a multi year contract just doesn't make sense anymore. Year to year, I can get behind. You've got cushion as an organization; a buffer for the prospects. I'm not overly afraid of Markov walking. If ever there was an athlete who'd do anything to stay where he is, it's Andrei. However, if he truly wants a multi year deal, find the best offer out there and weigh it against keeping beyond another year. Didn't mean to start a rumor.  Saw the Kings connection, looked at their roster & this was the only name that looked logical because I can't see L.A. giving up a "big name" in any deal for Markov. |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 25, 2014 16:32:58 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind Toffoli. I haven't seen him play enough to give a personal opinion, but his stats look good. He shows consistent improvement, his Plus minus is good, he scored 50 goals twice in the OHL and is averaging half a point a game for LA as a 21 year old on an offensively challenged team, averaging about 15 minutes a game in his last 5 games. NHL.com has him at 196 pounds. The profile fits, though, a good young prospect, old enough to contribute next year not 4 years from now.
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Post by franko on Feb 25, 2014 16:57:48 GMT -5
on paper, Muzzin looks like a nice return. big and nasty. so where does/how can he fit in to the Habs plans? he's 6'3", so he's too big. he's not afraid to hit, so he can't be on the ice. |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 25, 2014 17:33:35 GMT -5
He's a defensive type defenseman. We have Tinordi coming up as that type. Nope, give me a scorer instead, please.
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 25, 2014 20:43:44 GMT -5
I have no interest in sacrificing current performance for uncertain future return. Markov is a guy we can't replace and we would add a nice but "not a sure thing" forward and maybe a late 1st round draft pick that won't be worth anything for another 3-4 years. And we lose a top pair dman with no replacement in the system? Explain to me how that makes us better right now? You could always try to get creative/cute and have it both ways. Trade Markov and Gionta in your classic player/prospect/picks type of deals, and then use your accumulated assets to go after the types of players you mention. Dennis Wideman and David Perron also come to mind, if you're looking at bottom feeders who might be looking to get some kids or picks. |
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 26, 2014 8:04:56 GMT -5
You could always try to get creative/cute and have it both ways. Trade Markov and Gionta in your classic player/prospect/picks type of deals, and then use your accumulated assets to go after the types of players you mention. Dennis Wideman and David Perron also come to mind, if you're looking at bottom feeders who might be looking to get some kids or picks.
In the PlayStation world:
* Markov and a 3rd rounder to Anaheim for Lucas Sbisa, Emerson Etem and a 1st round pick. Your classic UFA for a player, prospect and pick deal.
* Beaulieu and Leblanc for David Perron. We give up a good prospect who can step in right away for Edmonton, and a stalled prospect, for a top six winger, albeit one with injury concerns. But he's been mostly healthy this year after playing every game last year. And he's a local boy. If you are Edmonton would you rather give up Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Eberle, Yakupov or Perron?
* Brady Vail and a first to Calgary for Dennis Wideman. Might have to up the prospect quality here (Andrighetto?) and it would probably have to be the higher of the two firsts we now have, but so what? I can live with it. Wideman is a right-shooting offensive defenseman, who is very underrated in my opinion.
* Brian Gionta and a 2nd round pick back to New Jersey for Danius Zubrus and Reid Boucher. Yeah, I admit it, I've always had a man-crush on Zubrus. Never turned into the offensive player many thought he would be but he's had a very underrated career nonetheless. Very versatile, capable of playing any forward position, any role, from centering Kovalchuk to 3rd line penalty killer. A guy like Eller could really learn from Zubrus, I think. Boucher used to play with Galchenyuk in Sarnia. Don't think that will matter in the long run, but still. Admittedly the second round pick is the only thing about this deal that is attractive to New Jersey, so maybe throw in Christian Thomas as well.
We'd still have a first round pick, would add tonnes of depth for the playoffs, AND get younger and cheaper:
Forwards:
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Zubrus : Zubrus is no Cole... But still, he's defensively responsible and a big body who likes to work the corners.
Perron - Plekanec - Prust: Perron is perhaps the best winger not named Kovalev that Plekanec has ever had, though they might fight for the same ice.
Galchenyuk - Eller - Gallagher: Re-united, and it feels so good...
Weise - White - Bournival: Our suddenly very good fourth line.
(Briere, Moen, Bourque, Etem, Parros, Boucher): That's very good depth for a playoff run.
Defense:
Tinordi - Subban: Play your rookie with your best defenseman. Tinordi doesn't have to play 24 minutes a night - minus power-play time, penalty-killing time, last minute of periods, etcetera, and he's probably in at 17-18 minutes, give or take.
Gorges - Wideman: Both on their proper sides, Wideman has underrated offensive abilities.
Sbisa - Emelin: Emelin is on his wrong side, but he's probably getting used to that.
(Murray, Bouillon, Drewiski, Paetryn): Again, very good depth for a playoff run.
I'll call Marc and give him the plan.
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Post by franko on Feb 26, 2014 8:48:29 GMT -5
Re-united, and it feels so good... ouch. next time just take a straight pin and stick it in my eye. |
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Post by franko on Feb 26, 2014 8:49:54 GMT -5
Lucas Sbisa, Emerson Etem, David Perron, Dennis Wideman, Danius Zubrus and Reid Boucher any of these guys grinders? you know that's what kind of team we are. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Feb 26, 2014 9:01:15 GMT -5
I like it BC, except for the Markov trade. Those classic UFA for a player-pick-prospect deals rarely work out for the team giving up the player. I think we're better off keeping Markov and signing him to another contract.
I would do Beaulieu and Leblanc for Perron, and the Gionta/Zubrus idea makes sense for the Devils to free up some future cap space. Zubrus is up there at 35 years old but like you said a versatile, big bodied forward that can play anywhere in the top 9.
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Post by Skilly on Feb 26, 2014 9:47:22 GMT -5
You could always try to get creative/cute and have it both ways. Trade Markov and Gionta in your classic player/prospect/picks type of deals, and then use your accumulated assets to go after the types of players you mention. Dennis Wideman and David Perron also come to mind, if you're looking at bottom feeders who might be looking to get some kids or picks.
In the PlayStation world:
* Markov and a 3rd rounder to Anaheim for Lucas Sbisa, Emerson Etem and a 1st round pick. Your classic UFA for a player, prospect and pick deal.
* Beaulieu and Leblanc for David Perron. We give up a good prospect who can step in right away for Edmonton, and a stalled prospect, for a top six winger, albeit one with injury concerns. But he's been mostly healthy this year after playing every game last year. And he's a local boy. If you are Edmonton would you rather give up Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Eberle, Yakupov or Perron?
* Brady Vail and a first to Calgary for Dennis Wideman. Might have to up the prospect quality here (Andrighetto?) and it would probably have to be the higher of the two firsts we now have, but so what? I can live with it. Wideman is a right-shooting offensive defenseman, who is very underrated in my opinion.
* Brian Gionta and a 2nd round pick back to New Jersey for Danius Zubrus and Reid Boucher. Yeah, I admit it, I've always had a man-crush on Zubrus. Never turned into the offensive player many thought he would be but he's had a very underrated career nonetheless. Very versatile, capable of playing any forward position, any role, from centering Kovalchuk to 3rd line penalty killer. A guy like Eller could really learn from Zubrus, I think. Boucher used to play with Galchenyuk in Sarnia. Don't think that will matter in the long run, but still. Admittedly the second round pick is the only thing about this deal that is attractive to New Jersey, so maybe throw in Christian Thomas as well.
We'd still have a first round pick, would add tonnes of depth for the playoffs, AND get younger and cheaper:
Forwards:
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Zubrus : Zubrus is no Cole... But still, he's defensively responsible and a big body who likes to work the corners.
Perron - Plekanec - Prust: Perron is perhaps the best winger not named Kovalev that Plekanec has ever had, though they might fight for the same ice.
Galchenyuk - Eller - Gallagher: Re-united, and it feels so good...
Weise - White - Bournival: Our suddenly very good fourth line.
(Briere, Moen, Bourque, Etem, Parros, Boucher): That's very good depth for a playoff run.
Defense:
Tinordi - Subban: Play your rookie with your best defenseman. Tinordi doesn't have to play 24 minutes a night - minus power-play time, penalty-killing time, last minute of periods, etcetera, and he's probably in at 17-18 minutes, give or take.
Gorges - Wideman: Both on their proper sides, Wideman has underrated offensive abilities.
Sbisa - Emelin: Emelin is on his wrong side, but he's probably getting used to that.
(Murray, Bouillon, Drewiski, Paetryn): Again, very good depth for a playoff run.
I'll call Marc and give him the plan.
There is only one problem I can see .... There is no way MT or MB will have Briere, Moen, Bourque and Bouillon benched. Especially Briere. |
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Post by Tankdriver on Feb 26, 2014 12:53:17 GMT -5
Dennis Wideman is not worth a first. So I think you are overpaying there and you might be able to get Perron for Leblanc and Pateryn (need more defencive than offensive defenceman)
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Post by FREEHAB on Feb 26, 2014 13:23:35 GMT -5
Muzzin. No question.
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Post by blny on Feb 26, 2014 14:09:09 GMT -5
If Zubrus were 30, I might consider that one. He's not though, and regardless of what he's accomplished there's just too much of a sour taste in my mouth when it comes to him (though it's no fault of his own, it's strictly a result of poor asset management by Houle).
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Feb 26, 2014 14:17:03 GMT -5
Reminds me a lot of Koivu. Honest, hardworking, gave us years of good service, getting older, still productive, team needs to get younger and better. I want a good return for a man who is still a star and could help a team headed for a cup run.
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 26, 2014 21:47:44 GMT -5
Bob McKENZIE ON 690 TODAY SAYS Markov going rate is a draft pick. If that is so...can't see him being moved.
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Post by christrpn on Mar 1, 2014 12:30:06 GMT -5
Given the return on Miller, I would think Markov could get more than a pick. Markov has shown more talent in a defensmans role that Miller has for goaltenders.
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Post by jkr on Mar 1, 2014 13:31:51 GMT -5
Bob McKENZIE ON 690 TODAY SAYS Markov going rate is a draft pick. If that is so...can't see him being moved. I guess we are doing what fans do & overvaluing their players. If that's all the return, then I agree - pass. |
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