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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 9, 2014 10:59:21 GMT -5
Myers is not playing like he use to nor grew to where they dreamed he would be. Which means he either needs a change of scenery or he is a reclamation project. Considering he is a 5.5 million a year cap hit until 2019. At this point, his play is no better then Tinordi and his value even less. www.capgeek.com/player/728I would avoid Myers. He hasn't played anywhere near his potential and his great 1st year or 2. It's like the pressure is too much for him and it would only be amplified in MTL. I agree with Cranky, JT is a much cheaper D man, who can basically provide what Myers does for a lot less. I would like to see a Weaver-Tinordi as the 3rd D.... A Tinordi-Beaulieu 3rd pairing would be interesting as well. I don't follow the Sabres at all so this is news to me fellas, thanks ... Cheers.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 9, 2014 10:59:32 GMT -5
I don't think Tinordi is anywhere near the puck-handler that Myers is. I have been impressed just about every time I watch him play, and still think he's an instant upgrade on the back end which was a weakness in the playoffs. I believe Myers has a higher ceiling than Tinordi.
And, I agree Dis that Myers is the type of player that Buffalo should be building around which is probably why a deal like that wouldn't happen. The only way to do it would be to give enough good assets back plus a comparable player in Tinordi to soften the blow.
But it's also an illustration that Bergevin has options. He has 4 natural centers for 3 spots (DD, Pleks, Eller, Galchenyuk), and he has good prospect depth on defense (Beaulieu, Tinordi). Combine that with other picks/prospects and the elements are there for him to swing a trade that changes the shape of the team and either makes us bigger, deeper, more scoring, etc.
I think we need to upgrade upfront and on the back end, especially if we end up losing Vanek, and relying on and waiting for draft picks to mature or signing free agents is part of the solution, but smart trades where you can deal surplus assets to address other needs is hugely important as well. Yes, it takes a willing partner, but you also need a GM with the stones to do something bold.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 9, 2014 11:54:57 GMT -5
And, I agree Dis that Myers is the type of player that Buffalo should be building around which is probably why a deal like that wouldn't happen. The only way to do it would be to give enough good assets back plus a comparable player in Tinordi to soften the blow. Right on ... I think you're right in that acquiring Myers would require a younger prospect(s) going the other way ... I think we need to upgrade upfront and on the back end, especially if we end up losing Vanek, and relying on and waiting for draft picks to mature or signing free agents is part of the solution, but smart trades where you can deal surplus assets to address other needs is hugely important as well. Yes, it takes a willing partner, but you also need a GM with the stones to do something bold. I read on Sports Illustrated that the Bruins will be active on the trade front as well ... I'd hate to see them land Dan Boyle ... as far as upgrades on the back end, I don't know if there would be enough cap space to sign Boyle, but Weaver would be an excellent mentor to both Beaulieu and Tinordi ... as for the front end, well, I think Plekanec would probably be a good fit in Vancouver ... someone already mentioned Kesler ... I'm not sure what the deal would be but here's another player who I wouldn't want to see in Boston ... then, again, there's the cap to consider again ... Cheers.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 9, 2014 13:41:12 GMT -5
Kesler - great player, but lots of miles on him and he's tended to be prone to injury the last few years (blocking too many damn shots. Tyler Myers - disappointment after a couple of very good first years. Almost like the expectations got to him. Talent wise, he is loaded. Long stride, strong, good hands. I'd love to have a shot at him, and I suspect not having to be the go to guy would solve a lot of his confidence problems. PK looks after that in Montreal. Buffalo has Rasmus Ristolainen, Nikolai Zadorov and Jake McCable drafted and ready to join the team in the next 1 to 3 years. Ristolainen could probably make it next year at 19. McCabe played 7 games for them last year. Zadorov is man sized already. Myers might be available.....though that would leave them thin for next year, which in a Connor McDavid year, might be what they want anyway.
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Post by christrpn on Jun 9, 2014 17:54:44 GMT -5
I would try and see if we could swing a Gorges+ for Myers. I would hate to give up on Tinordi. Imagine a D core that includes Myers AND tinordi. Myers might have better hands but Tinordi has a mean streak. A Tinordi Myers pairing would be great in the future
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 9, 2014 22:50:48 GMT -5
I would give a first and Gorges for Myers.
With PK......Markov playing decent....Beau and Tinordi developing to top 4.....add Myers.....best defense in NHL.
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Post by PTH on Jun 10, 2014 0:07:11 GMT -5
A first and Gorges for Myers.... I can't see Buffalo doing that. What use do they have for an expensive veteran D when they're going through a rebuild ?
Mention Myers to a Buffalo fan, and they'll want Gallagher, Galchenuyk or Subban in the discussion. At the very least, Beaulieu, a first and a roster player.
Let's stay realistic.
What I like to consider is what I'd trade for a guy, from my own team. For example, last season I wanted a 1st round pick and Leblanc, for Plekanec. I might have been overshooting a bit, but I think we have more knowledge of our own team, and then we can "map" that value to players from other teams, and find what might be possible.
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Post by blny on Jun 10, 2014 6:06:28 GMT -5
I'd do this year's first and Beaulieu for Myers. He's had some struggles, but I think part of it is being the ONLY guy on the back end. He'd be sheltered in Montreal more. He's got oodles of size, bit of a mean streak, mobility, and he'll put up good points. I'm not including his d partner in Ehrhoff because not long after signing Sabres fans were wondering how to get rid of him. I think you can chalk up a significant portion of Myers' minuses last year to playing with Christian.
Putting Gorges in the deal would be for cap balance in the trade. Say Buffalo throws in a second this year to balance off the young assets. In essence, it would be Gorges and first for Myers and second for Beaulieu. Gorges gives them a reasonably steady stay-at-home guy for shorter term and less money.
Markov-Subban Emelin-Myers Tinordi-Weaver
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Post by christrpn on Jun 10, 2014 17:28:36 GMT -5
A team going through a rebuild needs Veterans in the beginning until their rookies become leaders. Look at Edmonton, packed to the raters in talent, but none of them came up the ranks with a true leader. They went and got Ryan Smith back but it was too late. They needed him when Eberle came in the mix.
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 11, 2014 6:54:06 GMT -5
A team going through a rebuild needs Veterans in the beginning until their rookies become leaders. Look at Edmonton, packed to the raters in talent, but none of them came up the ranks with a true leader. They went and got Ryan Smith back but it was too late. They needed him when Eberle came in the mix. And it appears that the team is on the verge of re-signing Brian Gionta. All depends on the details of course, but assuming the term and/or money is right then I have no problem with it. You can't praise a team for it's character and then dismiss the input of it's captain, even if we don't happen to see any of it. Obviously he means something to the guys in the dressing room. But beyond that Gionta DID score 18 goals last year, and was one of our primary penalty killers. While nobody, myself included, expects that to continue it is nonetheless good production, production that would have to be replaced. It's not like Gionta is completely finished in other words. Nor do we have a plethora of on-the-cusp right-wingers chomping at the bit to get into the lineup.
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Post by blny on Jun 11, 2014 9:10:36 GMT -5
Not entirely sure how close they are, but it would certainly appear both sides want it. www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=454550Gionta wants clarification of what his role will be, what the near future direction of the club is etc. I get keeping the captain if it's to aide in the transition to the next one. Yes, he had a decent regular season. I just think we can get the same production from a bigger, younger, body.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 11, 2014 9:30:58 GMT -5
Not entirely sure how close they are, but it would certainly appear both sides want it. www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=454550Gionta wants clarification of what his role will be, what the near future direction of the club is etc. I get keeping the captain if it's to aide in the transition to the next one. Yes, he had a decent regular season. I just think we can get the same production from a bigger, younger, body. Gionta looked OK on the 3rd line with Eller and Bourque and that's really where he belongs right now. A 3rd line winger who can kill penalties, provide leadership, and chip in maybe 10 goals. Part of me says that Louis Leblanc could probably give you everything Gionta can at this point at a cheaper price and with more upside, but I agree with BC that you have to balance that with what Gio provides off the ice and in the room. That's the part that only MB, MT and the players know about and if they feel that keeping Gio is important to the stability of the team, then I can live with that.... to a point. Loyalty only gets you so far. 2 years, $6 million?
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Post by Polarice on Jun 11, 2014 10:30:29 GMT -5
Not entirely sure how close they are, but it would certainly appear both sides want it. www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=454550Gionta wants clarification of what his role will be, what the near future direction of the club is etc. I get keeping the captain if it's to aide in the transition to the next one. Yes, he had a decent regular season. I just think we can get the same production from a bigger, younger, body. Right now I would rather cut bait and either sigh a free agent or bring someone up like Leblanc.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 11, 2014 10:40:18 GMT -5
Not entirely sure how close they are, but it would certainly appear both sides want it. www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=454550Gionta wants clarification of what his role will be, what the near future direction of the club is etc. I get keeping the captain if it's to aide in the transition to the next one. Yes, he had a decent regular season. I just think we can get the same production from a bigger, younger, body. Gionta looked OK on the 3rd line with Eller and Bourque and that's really where he belongs right now. A 3rd line winger who can kill penalties, provide leadership, and chip in maybe 10 goals. Part of me says that Louis Leblanc could probably give you everything Gionta can at this point at a cheaper price and with more upside, but I agree with BC that you have to balance that with what Gio provides off the ice and in the room. That's the part that only MB, MT and the players know about and if they feel that keeping Gio is important to the stability of the team, then I can live with that.... to a point. Loyalty only gets you so far. 2 years, $6 million? I pretty well watched 24CH all year and I did not find Gio to be Captain-like, IMO. Gorges, PK and even Budaj were more vocal in the room. Maybe I'm biased, but we should let him go to NJ and retire a Devil and bring up Leblanc, who will be a lot less cap hit. I for one, want PK as captain. He would, I believe, thrive and grow as captain and reach the potential we know he has. Also it would be a big FU you to the league, the media and the haters. But with MT as coach, I can see all the vets being resigned... he does love his vets. This means Pleky ain't going anywhere and the kids on D will have to wait.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jun 11, 2014 10:58:58 GMT -5
…Gionta saw players signing here like Briere, Murray, Moen, Bouillon, Parros, etc… who all went from being regular NHL players to becoming depth players… My take is that he probably doesn’t want that to happen to him so soon... at his age he knows he won’t be climbing in the depth chart and if he looks just over his shoulder he’s got Dale Weise there who’s playing to take his spot and push him further down the depth chart. Assuming Gio is the best guy in the world for the room (…and I don’t buy that personally… ), but once a player struggles to keep his spot in the lineup it becomes a different story me thinks…
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 11, 2014 11:21:13 GMT -5
Not entirely sure how close they are, but it would certainly appear both sides want it. www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=454550Gionta wants clarification of what his role will be, what the near future direction of the club is etc. I get keeping the captain if it's to aide in the transition to the next one. Yes, he had a decent regular season. I just think we can get the same production from a bigger, younger, body. Right now I would rather cut bait and either sigh a free agent or bring someone up like Leblanc. Agreed. We are not winning anything anytime soon with a small, aging, declining player. I don't care if he wants to play for free, he sets the bar low enough that either LL or a FA can take over. The object is to win cups, not offer parachute contracts to aging players.
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 11, 2014 11:28:28 GMT -5
A team going through a rebuild needs Veterans in the beginning until their rookies become leaders. Look at Edmonton, packed to the raters in talent, but none of them came up the ranks with a true leader. They went and got Ryan Smith back but it was too late. They needed him when Eberle came in the mix. And it appears that the team is on the verge of re-signing Brian Gionta. All depends on the details of course, but assuming the term and/or money is right then I have no problem with it. You can't praise a team for it's character and then dismiss the input of it's captain, even if we don't happen to see any of it. Obviously he means something to the guys in the dressing room. But beyond that Gionta DID score 18 goals last year, and was one of our primary penalty killers. While nobody, myself included, expects that to continue it is nonetheless good production, production that would have to be replaced. It's not like Gionta is completely finished in other words. Nor do we have a plethora of on-the-cusp right-wingers chomping at the bit to get into the lineup. We have one and there are plenty of FA that can provide more then Gionta. I don't see were Gionta provides leadership. He is just another guy on the ice and from clips on 24, he's no leader to the young ones. The team belongs to PK, Price and company. Gionta is filler....and we can get better filler. It will be a huge mistake to sign him for 4 million and not bring in a FA. Last but not least, you want sentimentality? I rather have Koivu then Gionta. Not that Koivu is going to help much, but at least, I still see him as "captain, my captain" then Gionta.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 11, 2014 11:35:29 GMT -5
And it appears that the team is on the verge of re-signing Brian Gionta. All depends on the details of course, but assuming the term and/or money is right then I have no problem with it. You can't praise a team for it's character and then dismiss the input of it's captain, even if we don't happen to see any of it. Obviously he means something to the guys in the dressing room. But beyond that Gionta DID score 18 goals last year, and was one of our primary penalty killers. While nobody, myself included, expects that to continue it is nonetheless good production, production that would have to be replaced. It's not like Gionta is completely finished in other words. Nor do we have a plethora of on-the-cusp right-wingers chomping at the bit to get into the lineup. We have one and there are plenty of FA that can provide more then Gionta. I don't see were Gionta provides leadership. He is just another guy on the ice and from clips on 24, he's no leader to the young ones. The team belongs to PK, Price and company. Gionta is filler....and we can get better filler. It will be a huge mistake to sign him for 4 million and not bring in a FA. Last but not least, you want sentimentality? I rather have Koivu then Gionta. Not that Koivu is going to help much, but at least, I still see him as "captain, my captain" then Gionta. I would love to see Saku end his career with the Habs.
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 11, 2014 11:41:06 GMT -5
I would love to see Saku end his career with the Habs. So would I. Gainey-Is-God completely blew it and ended his career as GM the minute he traded for the Gomez nightmare. We would be way, way ahead right now with Koivu and McDo in our line-up.
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Post by habsorbed on Jun 11, 2014 11:51:20 GMT -5
Gionta brings a good work ethic, maturity, and a solid and stable, if not boring, personality. This is good for the young ones to see how professionals behave. i'm OK if it's about $3 million for a couple of years. i'll be upset if he gets more than 4.
But i would;t read too much into the current posturing. The Habs have to say they want to keep their captain; that's part of the protocol. Always bad to mistreat your captain. Gio has to say he'd love to stay. Captain's should be loyal to their team and teammates. But once they start talking dollars and term they will both agree to part amicably to allow each other to get on with their future in a respectful manner.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 11, 2014 12:42:48 GMT -5
Gionta brings a good work ethic, maturity, and a solid and stable, if not boring, personality. This is good for the young ones to see how professionals behave. i'm OK if it's about $3 million for a couple of years. i'll be upset if he gets more than 4. But i would;t read too much into the current posturing. The Habs have to say they want to keep their captain; that's part of the protocol. Always bad to mistreat your captain. Gio has to say he'd love to stay. Captain's should be loyal to their team and teammates. But once they start talking dollars and term they will both agree to part amicably to allow each other to get on with their future in a respectful manner. I hope you're right...
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Post by habsorbed on Jun 11, 2014 12:45:13 GMT -5
Gionta brings a good work ethic, maturity, and a solid and stable, if not boring, personality. This is good for the young ones to see how professionals behave. i'm OK if it's about $3 million for a couple of years. i'll be upset if he gets more than 4. But i would;t read too much into the current posturing. The Habs have to say they want to keep their captain; that's part of the protocol. Always bad to mistreat your captain. Gio has to say he'd love to stay. Captain's should be loyal to their team and teammates. But once they start talking dollars and term they will both agree to part amicably to allow each other to get on with their future in a respectful manner. I hope you're right... About the $3 million or the amicable parting?
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 11, 2014 12:52:37 GMT -5
About the $3 million or the amicable parting? I'll take the 3 million (baby needs a new Porsche)and Gionta walking.........
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 11, 2014 13:58:34 GMT -5
About the $3 million or the amicable parting? parting.... use the 3 mill on someonelse
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Post by habsorbed on Jun 11, 2014 15:54:53 GMT -5
Gio has to ask himself what are other teams willing to pay. I'd be surprised if anyone went higher that $3. As captain he can't test the FA market as it shows disloyalty so the deal has to be done before July 1. If we let him go, we have yet again given up an asset for nothing.
Article on TSN saying the Bruins are looking to move Marchand to clear his salary so they can sign Iggy. What are these guys smoking?
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Post by Polarice on Jun 11, 2014 17:00:32 GMT -5
Gio has to ask himself what are other teams willing to pay. I'd be surprised if anyone went higher that $3. As captain he can't test the FA market as it shows disloyalty so the deal has to be done before July 1. If we let him go, we have yet again given up an asset for nothing. Article on TSN saying the Bruins are looking to move Marchand to clear his salary so they can sign Iggy. What are these guys smoking? Marchand is a dick....not just as a hockey player but in everyday life. I'm sure his act is getting old in the lockeroom.
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Post by christrpn on Jun 11, 2014 17:56:28 GMT -5
Gio has to ask himself what are other teams willing to pay. I'd be surprised if anyone went higher that $3. As captain he can't test the FA market as it shows disloyalty so the deal has to be done before July 1. If we let him go, we have yet again given up an asset for nothing. Article on TSN saying the Bruins are looking to move Marchand to clear his salary so they can sign Iggy. What are these guys smoking? Marchand is a dick....not just as a hockey player but in everyday life. I'm sure his act is getting old in the lockeroom. Chara is getting old, Thornton is not coming back an Lucic has been exposed as the chicken Saperlipopette we've been saying he is since GL. Marchand will soon have no one to back him. Someone will eventually shut him up and he will no longer be effective. Move will the value is high. Leblanc is a UFA, doubt he'll be back unless he signs the qualifying offer. Gallagher, Gionta,Blank and Weise, those are our right wings. kind of bleak if you ask me. We have to stop making players play outside of their roles. Briere is NOT a fourth line center, Plekanec is NOT a second liine center. I'll take a lot of flak for this but neither Gionta nor Gallagher are effective one/two punch. Gallagher would be a great third line right wing. Energy and spunk with great offensive talent. Making him play hard top two minutes will shorten his career. Let him play against the third pairing.
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Post by PTH on Jun 11, 2014 18:04:19 GMT -5
No, he isn't. He's not 25 yet, and hasn't played enough hockey to be a UFA before 27 anyways. He really has to be hoping MTL offers him a deal, guys his age who get let go often just fade away...
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Post by christrpn on Jun 11, 2014 18:23:18 GMT -5
No, he isn't. He's not 25 yet, and hasn't played enough hockey to be a UFA before 27 anyways. He really has to be hoping MTL offers him a deal, guys his age who get let go often just fade away... sorry, meant RFA
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 13, 2014 8:25:03 GMT -5
Any love for either Devin Setoguchi or Milan Michalek?
Both are bigger bodies who can really skate, both have had some scoring success in the past, both might look good on the wing with Desharnais and Pacioretty. Neither one of them had a particularly good year last season, though neither was horrible. Worst case scenario you're looking at 15-20 goals, best case you might get them back into the 25-30 range. Either would fit our "four lines of skating fury" philosophy, could be moved up and down the lineup as necessary, and shouldn't break any banks to get. Not the sexiest of names out there, but might be the most realistic options for us.
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