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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 3, 2014 10:42:18 GMT -5
Bob MacKenzie suggested that the Sharks will be looking to trade Joe Thornton ... Doug Wilson: "... I want players that want to play here, not just live here ..." I think Plekanec would be a good no.2 fit in SJ ...
Cheers.
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Post by blny on Jun 3, 2014 11:27:04 GMT -5
There's a definite house cleaning afoot in San Jose. Out with the old(er). Thornton and Marleau are likely to be shopped. Boyle has already been told he won't be offered a contract. To be honest, I wouldn't have much interest in either, but Marleau would be my preferred. He's expensive and 34, but still skates well, would take less of a pounding in the east, and could slide in well on the second line.
My preference, in dealing with the Sharks, would be to try and package Plekanec and Gorges for Burns and maybe Torres. Gorges, Torres and Burns have NMC/NTCs so there would be complications to work out. Torres would give us a fabulous addition to the lower lines, and a guy who can chip in clutch goals. Burns is big, mobile, and tough. He played a lot of wing the last couple of years, which is less of a pounding than absorbing hits on the fore check. They plan to move him back to D though. We're sending more salary the other way in the deal, by $1.14 million.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 11:30:20 GMT -5
Not sure what it is, but Thornton gets shut down when you need him most.
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Post by blny on Jun 3, 2014 12:28:15 GMT -5
Not sure what it is, but Thornton gets shut down when you need him most. No speed, and he's not that strong for his size. |
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Post by madhabber on Jun 3, 2014 13:33:44 GMT -5
I would prefer to go after younger players that would go well with our core of Subban, Price, Patches, Eller, and the Gallys. Specially in acquiring assets for our a good trade chip like Pleks. A lot of teams could use this guy and we could possibly get a couple of good pieces back.
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Post by blny on Jun 3, 2014 13:39:31 GMT -5
I would prefer to go after younger players that would go well with our core of Subban, Price, Patches, Eller, and the Gallys. Specially in acquiring assets for our a good trade chip like Pleks. A lot of teams could use this guy and we could possibly get a couple of good pieces back. I'm sure you were speaking specifically to Thornton/Marleau. I'll add that Burns is 29. Still in his prime. I think he'd fit well, and add the mobile size dimension. Subban-Emelin Markov-Burns(he shoots right) Tinordi/Beau-Weaver You've potentially got a big bodied hitter in each pair. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 3, 2014 15:46:16 GMT -5
Not sure what it is, but Thornton gets shut down when you need him most. Thought I was in the Vanek thread ... seriously, there is a pattern to Joe Thornton not showing up in the post-season ... Pros: Pacioretty/Thornton/ Marleau Vanek (if he re-signs) could be one of the best lines in the league ... Cons: All three didn't do well in the playoffs this year ... #idlookatitCheers. |
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Post by HFTO on Jun 3, 2014 16:46:33 GMT -5
Lots of work and additions needed for this team to even duplicate this season's surprise run.....and it has to be done while getting our up and coming D corp in the rotation sooner than later.
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Post by blny on Jun 7, 2014 16:59:24 GMT -5
Toronto Sun is reporting that the Leafs are making a push to acquire Thornton.
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Post by franko on Jun 7, 2014 19:09:49 GMT -5
Toronto Sun is reporting that the Leafs are making a push to acquire Thornton. heard that . . .  |
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 8, 2014 4:11:39 GMT -5
Wouldn't touch Thornton. Big contract little will to win
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Post by Skilly on Jun 8, 2014 11:28:39 GMT -5
I've never understood the "Joe Thornton doesn't show up in the playoffs" argument.
He has 100 points in 132 career playoff games. In the last 5 years, the so-called declining years, he has 47 points in 56 games. And it's not like one good year pulled those numbers up ... He is consistently around the point a game mark.
I'd take him if the cost was Plekanec. Eller can take over Plekanec's duties. The only problem I see, is that Thornton-Galchenyuk looks way better than Thornton-DD , but we know it means another year on the wing for Galchy
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Post by blny on Jun 8, 2014 11:56:30 GMT -5
I guess you could say he gets his points but never seems to win the big ones.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 8, 2014 13:21:12 GMT -5
I'm going to defend big Joe a bit. I don't think he's that bad in the playoffs. He's got the bad rap in San Jose and he was indeed not very productive in his playoffs with Boston, but he has gotten 82 points in 97 playoff games in San Jose. That's not bad. Most of the time he was almost a ppg player. That's the quantity. The quality would require a better memory and more games viewed than I can recall, but I do remember one year 2010/11 where he got 17 points in 18 games and was a real force. So I don't think his play is as disappointing as, say, Plekanec in the playoffs. Different styles, definitely. What concerns me most about Joe is his age and the Cap hit (about $7mm). If he keeps getting close to 1 ppg, maybe he's worth it. He's signed through the next 3 years, so that's a bit of a concern. He'll be 35 in July and 37 in the last year of his contract. A bit long in the tooth.
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Post by blny on Jun 8, 2014 13:26:07 GMT -5
My concern beyond the big game rep is that he's slow. He plays a down low, cycle game. We're not built for that. We're a transition team. He'd just be getting through the neutral zone by the time we scored off the rush or turned it over.
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 8, 2014 13:54:19 GMT -5
I've never understood the "Joe Thornton doesn't show up in the playoffs" argument. He has 100 points in 132 career playoff games. In the last 5 years, the so-called declining years, he has 47 points in 56 games. And it's not like one good year pulled those numbers up ... He is consistently around the point a game mark. I'd take him if the cost was Plekanec. Eller can take over Plekanec's duties. The only problem I see, is that Thornton-Galchenyuk looks way better than Thornton-DD , but we know it means another year on the wing for Galchy Only 24 goals in 132 games is weak for a guy playing those kind of minutes. Especially playing most of career on powerful teams. He's not willing to pay the price to win. At 35, I wouldn't touch him, he's large caphit whose game has started to erode. |
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Post by franko on Jun 8, 2014 13:54:57 GMT -5
My concern beyond the big game rep is that he's slow. He plays a down low, cycle game. We're not built for that. We're a transition team. no, we're a grinding team. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 8, 2014 21:47:02 GMT -5
My concern beyond the big game rep is that he's slow. He plays a down low, cycle game. We're not built for that. We're a transition team. no, we're a grinding team.  ... very, very good ... Cheers. |
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Post by Skilly on Jun 8, 2014 22:03:35 GMT -5
I've never understood the "Joe Thornton doesn't show up in the playoffs" argument. He has 100 points in 132 career playoff games. In the last 5 years, the so-called declining years, he has 47 points in 56 games. And it's not like one good year pulled those numbers up ... He is consistently around the point a game mark. I'd take him if the cost was Plekanec. Eller can take over Plekanec's duties. The only problem I see, is that Thornton-Galchenyuk looks way better than Thornton-DD , but we know it means another year on the wing for Galchy Only 24 goals in 132 games is weak for a guy playing those kind of minutes. Especially playing most of career on powerful teams. He's not willing to pay the price to win. At 35, I wouldn't touch him, he's large caphit whose game has started to erode. When did Thornton turn into a goal scorer?? Since moving to San Jose, he has been a playmaker, not a goal scorer. Last year he was 13th in scoring, but only had 11 goals. Would any of us turn away a 100 point player because he only gets 15-20 goals a season? If you prorate Thornton's playoff numbers it equates to a 15 goal, 61 point season. That's including the Boston years, and still would be a great season on the Habs. The problem with the subjective "doesn't show up in big games" argument is that no one, no one, remembers the guy who assisted on the big goals. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 22:56:40 GMT -5
Thornton had three points in seven games vs. LA, and those were when the Sharks were scoring in bunches. After game 3, though, he didn't register anything.
Game 1: 1G, +1
Game 2: 1G, -1
Game 3: 1A, even
Game 4: 0 pts, -2
Game 5: 0 pts, -1
Game 6: 0 pts, -1
Game 7: 0 pts, -2
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Post by Polarice on Jun 9, 2014 9:18:27 GMT -5
A big pass on Joe....I would rather go with youth for now. If we are talking a trade deadline rental then I would look at him.
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 9, 2014 14:15:18 GMT -5
Only 24 goals in 132 games is weak for a guy playing those kind of minutes. Especially playing most of career on powerful teams. He's not willing to pay the price to win. At 35, I wouldn't touch him, he's large caphit whose game has started to erode. When did Thornton turn into a goal scorer?? Since moving to San Jose, he has been a playmaker, not a goal scorer. Last year he was 13th in scoring, but only had 11 goals. Would any of us turn away a 100 point player because he only gets 15-20 goals a season? If you prorate Thornton's playoff numbers it equates to a 15 goal, 61 point season. That's including the Boston years, and still would be a great season on the Habs. The problem with the subjective "doesn't show up in big games" argument is that no one, no one, remembers the guy who assisted on the big goals. Thornton has only averaged a goal every 5.5 games in playoffs. For his career, not counting just his declining years. In playoffs you need strength down the middle, #1 center is critical. If he is not scoring, much of the #1 center is wasted. |
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Post by Skilly on Jun 10, 2014 10:11:37 GMT -5
Thornton had three points in seven games vs. LA, and those were when the Sharks were scoring in bunches. After game 3, though, he didn't register anything. Game 1: 1G, +1 Game 2: 1G, -1 Game 3: 1A, even Game 4: 0 pts, -2 Game 5: 0 pts, -1 Game 6: 0 pts, -1 Game 7: 0 pts, -2 Post Niemi's numbers .... So does that mean that Subban doesn't show up in big games?? He scored almost all of his points when we had a series lead ... in his last 8 playoff games he had 1 goal and 1 assist. We didn't lose because PK didnt show up offensively and neither did San Jose lose soley because of Joe Thornton. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 10, 2014 10:27:38 GMT -5
A big pass on Joe....I would rather go with youth for now. If we are talking a trade deadline rental then I would look at him. Sounds like Joe Thornton has absolutely no positives to his game whatsoever, or at least that's what the thread is reflecting ... what would Thornton bring to Montreal if he were to land there ... #objectivelyspeaking Cheers. |
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Post by franko on Jun 10, 2014 10:52:39 GMT -5
A big pass on Joe....I would rather go with youth for now. If we are talking a trade deadline rental then I would look at him. Sounds like Joe Thornton has absolutely no positives to his game whatsoever, or at least that's what the thread is reflecting ... what would Thornton bring to Montreal if he were to land there ... #objectivelyspeaking Cheers. a new whipping boy. |
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Post by Polarice on Jun 10, 2014 11:46:49 GMT -5
A big pass on Joe....I would rather go with youth for now. If we are talking a trade deadline rental then I would look at him. Sounds like Joe Thornton has absolutely no positives to his game whatsoever, or at least that's what the thread is reflecting ... what would Thornton bring to Montreal if he were to land there ... #objectivelyspeaking Cheers. If we could swap out Davey for him then I would strongly look at it, I believe he would bring probably the same production, but give us more size down the middle. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2014 15:26:14 GMT -5
Post Niemi's numbers .... We're not talking about Niemi. Nor PK, but fine, I'll bite. Where did I suggest that San Jose lost because solely because of Thornton? I said that when San Jose needed Thornton to score, he didn't come through. In games 4 through 7, he registered no points and was a collective -6. If you want to make the same argument about PK, fine, I do believe that he didn't come through against the Rangers when we needed him. That does not mean that either team lost because of it. Please don't put words into my mouth. |
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 10, 2014 17:27:08 GMT -5
A big pass on Joe....I would rather go with youth for now. If we are talking a trade deadline rental then I would look at him. Sounds like Joe Thornton has absolutely no positives to his game whatsoever, or at least that's what the thread is reflecting ... what would Thornton bring to Montreal if he were to land there ... #objectivelyspeaking Cheers. Scored 11 goals last year, 35 years old with 7 million dollar caphit. |
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Post by Skilly on Jun 10, 2014 19:04:48 GMT -5
Post Niemi's numbers .... We're not talking about Niemi. Nor PK, but fine, I'll bite. Where did I suggest that San Jose lost because solely because of Thornton? I said that when San Jose needed Thornton to score, he didn't come through. In games 4 through 7, he registered no points and was a collective -6. If you want to make the same argument about PK, fine, I do believe that he didn't come through against the Rangers when we needed him. That does not mean that either team lost because of it. Please don't put words into my mouth. And my argument is Joe Thornton doesn't score much ...period. He sets the scorers up. A lot went wrong in San Jose. Joe Thornton was a tiny part, Niemi's sub 0.900 save percentage in those last fours games was a part. Where did I put words in your mouth? I asked you a question, with a parallel to the Habs. And then gave you my answer.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2014 19:21:58 GMT -5
And my argument is Joe Thornton doesn't score much ...period. He sets the scorers up. A lot went wrong in San Jose. Joe Thornton was a tiny part, Niemi's sub 0.900 save percentage in those last fours games was a part. Where did I put words in your mouth? I asked you a question, with a parallel to the Habs. And then gave you my answer. But he still is counted on to generate offense. In the last four games, he neither scored nor set up anything. I said he gets shut down when he is counted on most, which would - if anything - suggest that teams know how to target him and keep him off the score sheet. It doesn't necessarily go hand-in-hand with the "Thornton doesn't show up in big games" opinions that you seem to be so strongly against. You offered a statement which says that the Sharks didn't lose because of Thornton - something that you came up with when I had posted his stats for the series (and nothing more). I'm merely talking about Thornton's production, not the Sharks. If you want to philosophize various factors as to why they lost, be my guest; I'm not going to get pulled into it. |
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... very, very good ... 
