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Post by UberCranky on Jul 18, 2014 12:26:09 GMT -5
PK is better than Trouba and Kane, but the team may be better than with PK at $10.5 per year. I rally like PK, no question about his star power, but the team comes first. If Subban gets traded than this team won't be first in anything for a long time. Winnipeg gets the best player & MTL is trading a solid citizen in Subban for a problem child like Kane. Sounds like a great deal. I'm not trading PK because I want to, I would be trading him because what he wants would make it much harder to achieve what we want. A Hab fan first and foremost. Besides, "problem children" like like Chelios had great careers.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 18, 2014 12:26:17 GMT -5
PK is better than Trouba and Kane, but the team may be better than with PK at $10.5 per year. I rally like PK, no question about his star power, but the team comes first. Bingo. I was a Hab fan before PK was born and will be a fan long after PK has retired. I've referred "the team" several times in the thread ... No one is bigger that the team ... That refers to both Subban and Bergevin ... Cheers.
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Jul 18, 2014 13:00:25 GMT -5
A problem child like someone who in his first few years argued with every coach he had,, was a healthy scratch several times, was called out by senior NHL players for being a mouthpiece on the ice, was talked to for throwing his sweater on the floor of the dressing room? Yes we wouldn't want that on the team but they do grow up eventually, plus Trouba has the potential to be a superstar defenseman for many many years plus getting an up and coming power forward. I don't know if Winnipeg would make that deal.
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Post by jkr on Jul 18, 2014 13:13:16 GMT -5
A problem child like someone who in his first few years argued with every coach he had,, was a healthy scratch several times, was called out by senior NHL players for being a mouthpiece on the ice, was talked to for throwing his sweater on the floor of the dressing room? Yes we wouldn't want that on the team but they do grow up eventually, plus Trouba has the potential to be a superstar defenseman for many many years plus getting an up and coming power forward. I don't know if Winnipeg would make that deal. I think you're overstating Subban's earlier problems particularly the calling out by people like Mike Richards. Do we relly care about that one? This board was widely critical of those people. You didn't see Subban posing with stacks of cash in a hotel room or hear him offer lacklustre statements about playing for his team. Sure Kane may grow up but he may not and what then?. And I don't want Trouba's potential, I want what Subban has now.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 18, 2014 14:28:04 GMT -5
PK is better than Trouba and Kane, but the team may be better than with PK at $10.5 per year. I rally like PK, no question about his star power, but the team comes first. If Subban gets traded than this team won't be first in anything for a long time. Winnipeg gets the best player & MTL is trading a solid citizen in Subban for a problem child like Kane. Sounds like a great deal. It's a slow news week when we talk about a hypothetical trade and a guestimate salary offer and conjectured demands in a confidential negotiation. Subban is not now and has never been a problem child. No one wants to get rid of him. He is a great player with star power, production and highlight reel plays. Hypothetically is there is no agreement on his contract and an arbitrator establishes FAIR MARKET value and we have him for two more years with the possibility to monitor his progress and sign him either before or after he becomes a UFA, it's not a terrible situation. I am certain we will learn more down the line.
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Post by jerry_dog on Jul 18, 2014 14:31:35 GMT -5
Memo to MB: PK is a fan favourite. No one will criticize you for paying huge coin. This goes sideways and the lynch mob will be out! There are a lot of PK fans....but they are Hab fans first. If PK wants to set a record to satisfy his ego, damn the consequences, then MB has to do whatever it takes. I would trade PK before I give him 10.5 million. I feel Mr. Meehan's ego may be the one involved if anyone is out to 'set a record' on this deal.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 18, 2014 15:58:08 GMT -5
A problem child like someone who in his first few years argued with every coach he had,, was a healthy scratch several times, was called out by senior NHL players for being a mouthpiece on the ice, was talked to for throwing his sweater on the floor of the dressing room? Yes we wouldn't want that on the team but they do grow up eventually, plus Trouba has the potential to be a superstar defenseman for many many years plus getting an up and coming power forward. I don't know if Winnipeg would make that deal. The sweater-throwing incident was blown out of proportion ... I run into two guys I used to work with who are Habs fans that absolutely hate Subban ... when they talk about his faults they cite things two years past and don't let it go ... Trouba may/may not turn into a superstar, I couldn't tell you one way or the other ... however, IMHO, Subban is a borderline generational talent and we haven't had a player of his talent in what seems to be forever ... he's a Norris winner and a former 1st team all star ... Bergevin has to sign him and PK has to want to stay ... Cheers.
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Post by CentreHice on Jul 18, 2014 16:18:21 GMT -5
however, IMHO, Subban is a borderline generational talent and we haven't had a player of his talent in what seems to be forever ... he's a Norris winner and a former 1st team all star ... Bergevin has to sign him and PK has to want to stay ... Cheers. Perhaps it's been mentioned elsewhere, but I think we'd have to go back to Chelios to find the same "presence" on D. Am I missing someone else? We've had other solid d-men….but not with that combo of skills. Markov has been great….but not in that same way. I agree…he must be signed. Certain players embody the Habs' aura. I think he's well on his way to doing just that.
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Post by franko on Jul 18, 2014 16:35:49 GMT -5
Bergevin has to sign him and PK has to want to stay ... and there it is. the first part might be predicated on the second.
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Post by christrpn on Jul 18, 2014 17:45:34 GMT -5
PK is better than Trouba and Kane, but the team may be better than with PK at $10.5 per year. I rally like PK, no question about his star power, but the team comes first. If Subban gets traded than this team won't be first in anything for a long time. Winnipeg gets the best player & MTL is trading a solid citizen in Subban for a problem child like Kane. Sounds like a great deal. I really couldnèt care less about the players off ice activity. We put too much into players actions off the ice. If the player comes to the rink on time, makes practice and makes the team better, so be it. Remember, how we see Kane is how the rest of the league sees PK. Maybe we're wearing the same glasses as they are. Pk would fill the rink in Winnipeg and satisfy their fans for the time being. cheveldayoff would buy himself some time. MB would make the Habs better. Trouba would make the team at the same time all the young forwards should be in their prime. Between Trouba and Kane we'd still have less than what PK would be getting paid, which would allow MB to get better forwards to help out. PK is great, but he is NOT Kane or Toews. Shouldnèt get anywhere near what they get.
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Post by jkr on Jul 18, 2014 18:15:47 GMT -5
If Subban gets traded than this team won't be first in anything for a long time. Winnipeg gets the best player & MTL is trading a solid citizen in Subban for a problem child like Kane. Sounds like a great deal. I really couldnèt care less about the players off ice activity. We put too much into players actions off the ice. If the player comes to the rink on time, makes practice and makes the team better, so be it. Remember, how we see Kane is how the rest of the league sees PK. Maybe we're wearing the same glasses as they are. Pk would fill the rink in Winnipeg and satisfy their fans for the time being. cheveldayoff would buy himself some time. MB would make the Habs better. Trouba would make the team at the same time all the young forwards should be in their prime. Between Trouba and Kane we'd still have less than what PK would be getting paid, which would allow MB to get better forwards to help out. PK is great, but he is NOT Kane or Toews. Shouldnèt get anywhere near what they get. I can't agree with anything here. The off ice activity may not mean much to you but it matters a lot to the media in Montreal. One misstep & Kane will be wishing he was back in Winnipeg. They were all over guys like Kovalev & Kostitsysn. They can make live miserable because they live for that kind of scoop. Cheveldayoff doesn't need to fill his rink, he needs a better team & I don't care a lot about his problems. Although Kane , on the ice, is an upgrade to the forwards, Trouba is a step back from Subban. It doesn't make the Habs better, at best it's a wash. Teams that win it all have studs in the lineup. Just look at the last few years - P. Kane, Toews, Doughty, Chara, Crosby. Subban is that on this team. And I'm not going to slag him for his contract demand because I don't know what they are.
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Post by Skilly on Jul 18, 2014 18:19:03 GMT -5
PK is better than Trouba and Kane, but the team may be better than with PK at $10.5 per year. I rally like PK, no question about his star power, but the team comes first. If Subban gets traded than this team won't be first in anything for a long time. Winnipeg gets the best player & MTL is trading a solid citizen in Subban for a problem child like Kane. Sounds like a great deal. I don't know about that. Depends on how the team approached the trade. Do I want to trade Subban? No. But that is also dependant on Marc Bergevin too. If Bergevin thinks he can win the Cup building around Subban as the franchise player, then I think he is crazy. Even if we sign Subban tomorrow, is this team better on paper than last year? I don't think so. Will they score more goals with Subban signed? I don't think so. We still, even with Subban, are lacking the top six forward to make us a competitive team. So if having Subban, means MB isn't addressing that need ... Then I'm not prepared to give Bergevin anything above an average grade. Where does our strength lie? On defense. Where are our strongest prospects? On defense. When Subban was holding out, I believe we went 4-1 or 4-2. Now Im not saying, we are better without Subban, I'm saying that the Montreal defensive system is predicated on team defense, blocking shots, not individual play; where Subban shines. So would I trade Subban? Yes, but only if the return for our generational defensive talent, is a generational offensive talent. Dis mentioned Tavares. Yep, I'd make that trade. Crosby? You betcha. My only issue with either of those guys is that Galchenyuk will be a winger, but could you imagine having Tavares-Galchenyuk down the middle? I think we can prevent goals with the best of them (thank you Carey Price). Scoring?? Not so much
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Post by stoat on Jul 18, 2014 18:56:46 GMT -5
If Subban gets traded than this team won't be first in anything for a long time. Winnipeg gets the best player & MTL is trading a solid citizen in Subban for a problem child like Kane. Sounds like a great deal. I don't know about that. Depends on how the team approached the trade. Do I want to trade Subban? No. But that is also dependant on Marc Bergevin too. If Bergevin thinks he can win the Cup building around Subban as the franchise player, then I think he is crazy. Even if we sign Subban tomorrow, is this team better on paper than last year? I don't think so. Will they score more goals with Subban signed? I don't think so. We still, even with Subban, are lacking the top six forward to make us a competitive team. So if having Subban, means MB isn't addressing that need ... Then I'm not prepared to give Bergevin anything above an average grade. Where does our strength lie? On defense. Where are our strongest prospects? On defense. When Subban was holding out, I believe we went 4-1 or 4-2. Now Im not saying, we are better without Subban, I'm saying that the Montreal defensive system is predicated on team defense, blocking shots, not individual play; where Subban shines. So would I trade Subban? Yes, but only if the return for our generational defensive talent, is a generational offensive talent. Dis mentioned Tavares. Yep, I'd make that trade. Crosby? You betcha. My only issue with either of those guys is that Galchenyuk will be a winger, but could you imagine having Tavares-Galchenyuk down the middle? I think we can prevent goals with the best of them (thank you Carey Price). Scoring?? Not so much I wouldn't want to trade Subban either but we don't know what he and his agent are demanding. I'm sure its a huge sum and for a long time or he would have been signed by now. I'd imagine that the return for him in a trade would be draft choices and prospects rather than established first line players. That would postpone the time when the Habs are serious Cup contenders.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 19, 2014 1:35:05 GMT -5
I wouldn't trade him because I believe he's truly near the top of the league. Top 3, top 5. In that area, and he will be for a long time. Stud defenders like him don't grow on trees, and you need them to win. For all those reason, I'm not even going to contemplate what he might be worth in trade. I'm in the camp that believed the 2 year bridge deal was the right move. His play before was good, but erratic. He had some maturing to do. He stepped up his game during that contract. I believe they'll get a long term deal done. I think Habs will use Doughty as the benchmark. He signed that 8 year $56 million deal the summer before his first cup win. The cap was $64.3 million during the 2011-12 season. That equates to 10.88% of the cap ceiling at the time of signing. Under the new cap ceiling, that's roughly $7.5 million a season. According to tax-brackets.org, Doughty, as a single California resident (don't know if he's single), would pay $2,897,097.55 in Federal tax, and $847,411.56 in state tax. His take home is $3,255,490.89. That's without putting in deductions like union dues etc. Living in Quebec, Doughty would be faced with 25% provincial income tax, and 29% + $28,880 federal (based on his salary). On the same contract as Doughty, he'd face federal taxes of 2,019,318.7 and provincial taxes of $1,750,000 for a total of $3,769,318.7. Therefore, his net income would be $3,230,681.3. The net income different between California living and Quebec living is only about $25,000. $7.5 million over the same number of years should have been enough. Unfortunately, Phaneuf's contract is for that much, and Subban is significantly better. Phaneuf's deal is the one Meehan will use. Given that position, and the fact there's no one in the organization that can replace, and few in the league that could, $8 million is where I think he'll slot in. I would do 8x8. He's 25. He'll be 33 when it expires. At that point, provided he's still with the club (and he should be), you are in a position to re-sign him to another deal without having to worry about the 35 and over situation. $7 million dollar home (not a palace in California), deduct mortgage payments and property taxes, poof tax bill cut in half. Money managers know how to make income tax disappear.
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Post by Gogie on Jul 19, 2014 6:42:33 GMT -5
I wouldn't trade him because I believe he's truly near the top of the league. Top 3, top 5. In that area, and he will be for a long time. Stud defenders like him don't grow on trees, and you need them to win. For all those reason, I'm not even going to contemplate what he might be worth in trade. I'm in the camp that believed the 2 year bridge deal was the right move. His play before was good, but erratic. He had some maturing to do. He stepped up his game during that contract. I believe they'll get a long term deal done. I think Habs will use Doughty as the benchmark. He signed that 8 year $56 million deal the summer before his first cup win. The cap was $64.3 million during the 2011-12 season. That equates to 10.88% of the cap ceiling at the time of signing. Under the new cap ceiling, that's roughly $7.5 million a season. According to tax-brackets.org, Doughty, as a single California resident (don't know if he's single), would pay $2,897,097.55 in Federal tax, and $847,411.56 in state tax. His take home is $3,255,490.89. That's without putting in deductions like union dues etc. Living in Quebec, Doughty would be faced with 25% provincial income tax, and 29% + $28,880 federal (based on his salary). On the same contract as Doughty, he'd face federal taxes of 2,019,318.7 and provincial taxes of $1,750,000 for a total of $3,769,318.7. Therefore, his net income would be $3,230,681.3. The net income different between California living and Quebec living is only about $25,000. $7.5 million over the same number of years should have been enough. Unfortunately, Phaneuf's contract is for that much, and Subban is significantly better. Phaneuf's deal is the one Meehan will use. Given that position, and the fact there's no one in the organization that can replace, and few in the league that could, $8 million is where I think he'll slot in. I would do 8x8. He's 25. He'll be 33 when it expires. At that point, provided he's still with the club (and he should be), you are in a position to re-sign him to another deal without having to worry about the 35 and over situation. $7 million dollar home (not a palace in California), deduct mortgage payments and property taxes, poof tax bill cut in half. Money managers know how to make income tax disappear. HFLA, there are a few holes in your argument. First of all, only mortgage INTEREST is deductible in the US; mortgage payments are not deductible. Secondly, only interest on the first $1 million of mortgage debt is deductible. Thirdly, only the first $250,000 of gains on a personal home are tax-sheltered in the US. 100% of gains on the sale of a home are tax-sheltered in Canada. With current mortgage rates in California around 4%, a California resident would be able to deduct a maximum of $40,000 in interest per year. If you assume the California resident owned the home for 10 years and it increased in value 10% (not an unreasonable assumption), that would equate to a $700,000 gain, $450.000 of which would be taxable at the top marginal rate for a pro athlete. There are tax advantages to home ownership in the US, but nowhere near as dramatic as you make them out to be.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 19, 2014 9:22:35 GMT -5
Yup, there are lots of factors to throw into the blender, which complicates the calculation. How about the increased medical insurance premiums that have to be paid in the US? Of course, booze is much cheaper there, so if you like your scotch, you could save thousands a year on that alone.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jul 19, 2014 10:08:26 GMT -5
Trouba and Kane would replace Subban's production no doubt about it, but neither would replace his impact. When we traded Roy, we received 2 young top6 players in Rucinsky/Kovalenko and what was considered a top shelf blue chip prospect in Thibault. That trade certainly gave the team a better balance on paper as a Trouba/Kane deal would. But the impact of Roy was never replaced and neither would Subban’s. We waited decades to have one impact player on this team and trading him when he just enters his prime would be a sad joke.
It’s just money… and we should know that no matter how much you spend, money won’t buy you a Subban if don’t have it. You can throw money at a bunch of Briere, Gionta, Gorges, Bourque, etc… who collectively will cost more than PK and will bring you nowhere.
Sign him, pay him whatever, and let’s move on.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 19, 2014 10:29:22 GMT -5
Trouba and Kane would replace Subban's production no doubt about it, but neither would replace his impact. When we traded Roy, we received 2 young top6 players in Rucinsky/Kovalenko and what was considered a top shelf blue chip prospect in Thibault. That trade certainly gave the team a better balance on paper as a Trouba/Kane deal would. But the impact of Roy was never replaced and neither would Subban’s. We waited decades to have one impact player on this team and trading him when he just enters his prime would be a sad joke. It’s just money… and we should know that no matter how much you spend, money won’t buy you a Subban if don’t have it. You can throw money at a bunch of Briere, Gionta, Gorges, Bourque, etc… who collectively will cost more than PK and will bring you nowhere. Sign him, pay him whatever, and let’s move on. I agree doc. Pk is everything we have wanted in a player. Loves the team loves the city and he is loved in return. The nhl sees how much of a representative he is because he did the red carpet at the nhl awards. Trading him would be a step back imo. Would LA trade doughty? Would the Hawks trade keith or seabrook? Would the blues trade Pietrangelo? Can anyone confirm that beau or tinordi cab replace what pk brings? He will be our general on our D and the captain of this team for the next decade.
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Post by jkr on Jul 19, 2014 11:27:14 GMT -5
Trouba and Kane would replace Subban's production no doubt about it, but neither would replace his impact. When we traded Roy, we received 2 young top6 players in Rucinsky/Kovalenko and what was considered a top shelf blue chip prospect in Thibault. That trade certainly gave the team a better balance on paper as a Trouba/Kane deal would. But the impact of Roy was never replaced and neither would Subban’s. We waited decades to have one impact player on this team and trading him when he just enters his prime would be a sad joke. It’s just money… and we should know that no matter how much you spend, money won’t buy you a Subban if don’t have it. You can throw money at a bunch of Briere, Gionta, Gorges, Bourque, etc… who collectively will cost more than PK and will bring you nowhere. Sign him, pay him whatever, and let’s move on. This x 100.
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Post by CentreHice on Jul 19, 2014 13:11:23 GMT -5
Bergevin has to sign him and PK has to want to stay ... and there it is. the first part might be predicated on the second. Therrien has a big part to play in this situation, IMO. As he did in the playoffs, MT has to lay off the supplementary discipline...especially when other players get carte blanche. The days of benchings and "It's a process." should be over. Subban knows he's going to get big money here or elsehwere….why put up with a coach that makes life difficult? Unless Subban comes out and says that Therrien's tactics have been instrumental in his development, I'm skeptical of a pro-active relationship. I would hope that if it came down to such an ultimatum, Bergevin would have something to say to Therrien….if he hasn't already.
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Post by UberCranky on Jul 19, 2014 13:43:08 GMT -5
I'm sure its a huge sum and for a long time or he would have been signed by now. I'm CERTAIN it is a huge sum. It would of been signed a long time ago if it was 7 or 8 million. MB is conservative with money but he's no fool. If it was a little more then what he wanted to pay, it wouldn't be a problem, but if it's in the 10 plus million, he's not going to bend. Nor do I want him too. This isn't about saving Molson money, if there was no cap, then pay PK 10 or 12 million and it's fine by me. Pay anything he wants is fine by me. But in a cap world, everything he spend more on one player is that much less he has to build a team.
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Post by UberCranky on Jul 19, 2014 13:51:00 GMT -5
Trouba and Kane would replace Subban's production no doubt about it, but neither would replace his impact. When we traded Roy, we received 2 young top6 players in Rucinsky/Kovalenko and what was considered a top shelf blue chip prospect in Thibault. That trade certainly gave the team a better balance on paper as a Trouba/Kane deal would. But the impact of Roy was never replaced and neither would Subban’s. We waited decades to have one impact player on this team and trading him when he just enters his prime would be a sad joke. It’s just money… and we should know that no matter how much you spend, money won’t buy you a Subban if don’t have it. You can throw money at a bunch of Briere, Gionta, Gorges, Bourque, etc… who collectively will cost more than PK and will bring you nowhere. Sign him, pay him whatever, and let’s move on. I don't agree. Subban is good but he's no Bobby Orr. Nor is he the best in the league. Nor is he going to bring a Cup by himself. If the return is someone who can slot in the top 2 in a few years AND arguable a top three forward already, then I would do the trade. Roy went on to win but he had Sakic, Forseberg, Bourque, Foote, Blake, Tangauy and Drury at their best, in other words, Roy did not win the cup or stayed on top by himself, the team did it.
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Post by frozone on Jul 19, 2014 17:30:04 GMT -5
I agree with Cranky. We can't draw parallels to the Roy situation. It was just a bad trade.
I would, in theory, trade Subban for the mere fact that there is always a "right price". PK is a rare breed and I want him to have a long career as a Hab. But at the same time, I try to be realistic about what he will provide for the Habs. He's 25 years old and people are still talking about his potential... To be honest, I think he's pretty close to his peak right now. I highly doubt he's going to get faster, and although he has quick feet I don't consider him that fast to begin with. But as long as people out there still think that he's just scratching the surface of what he can become, then why not trade him so that we can get a return on his remaining "potential".
Don't get me wrong. My choice is to keep Subban, even if he costs 9+ million. But having him on the team is not the only way to win the cup. If he can be moved in a deal that makes winning the cup more likely, I would think we would have to make that trade.
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Post by franko on Jul 19, 2014 18:07:24 GMT -5
having him on the team is not the only way to win the cup. If he can be moved in a deal that makes winning the cup more likely, I would think we would have to make that trade. ask Philadelphia and Quebec City/Colorado having said that, I still want to keep him.
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Post by christrpn on Jul 19, 2014 23:13:24 GMT -5
Lets all be honest here, the only real comparable to Subban is Karlsson, a lot of talent, but has never brought anything to the team.
To prove my point, he was a BEAST in the play-offs, but we still walked away with nothing. He canèt do it all himself. If we give him $9.5M+ MB handcuffss himself and hopes the Cap goes up significantly. Especially since next year both Galleys will be getting a hefty raise. I wouldn't be surprised to see Subban sign a 2-4yr deal at apprx $8M per. While Subban has a lot of talent, Doughty,Toews and Kane have 6 cups, a conn smyth, 4 gold medals, two silver and a Olympic MVP.
Show me the money? Show me the hardware.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jul 20, 2014 7:10:48 GMT -5
Subban won't bring a cup by himself, neither did Doughty, Toews, Chara, etc... Nobody does, but he's a key part to making it all the way if we ever do. Heck he was the best player of this team in the playoffs and took us to the conference finals with our "best" forwards being Lars Eller and Rene Bourque.
Problem here isn't with paying Subban, heck are we going to trade every players who make it among the best in the leagues because we'd rather have cheaper options on the roster? And still how can we say it will handcuff us? Subban will probably be paid about 2.5mil more than he would have been if we had signed him 2 years ago when the time was right to ink an emerging star to a good long term deal. Still if a 2.5M difference is what handcuffs us to the point of trading our best player than I say let's stop wishing for the Holly Grail and let's start enjoying our never ending journey into mediocraty.
To me moving forward means getting rid of too many ordinary players eating up the cap... Not trading studs to have money for more ordinary players.
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Post by jkr on Jul 20, 2014 7:28:22 GMT -5
Show me the money? Show me the hardware. At the junior level - 2 World Junior Championships. As a pro - one Gold medal, one Norris Trophy.
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Post by jkr on Jul 20, 2014 7:30:04 GMT -5
Subban won't bring a cup by himself, neither did Doughty, Toews, Chara, etc... Nobody does, but he's a key part to making it all the way if we ever do. Heck he was the best player of this team in the playoffs and took us to the conference finals with our "best" forwards being Lars Eller and Rene Bourque. Problem here isn't with paying Subban, heck are we going to trade every players who make it among the best in the leagues because we'd rather have cheaper options on the roster? And still how can we say it will handcuff us? Subban will probably be paid about 2.5mil more than he would have been if we had signed him 2 years ago when the time was right to ink an emerging star to a good long term deal. Still if a 2.5M difference is what handcuffs us to the point of trading our best player than I say let's stop wishing for the Holly Grail and let's start enjoying our never ending journey into mediocraty. To me moving forward means getting rid of too many ordinary players eating up the cap... Not trading studs to have money for more ordinary players. Exactly. Do people want to see the Montreal Expos on ice or do they want a team that tries to win?
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Post by jkr on Jul 20, 2014 7:32:52 GMT -5
Subban won't bring a cup by himself, neither did Doughty, Toews, Chara, etc... Nobody does, but he's a key part to making it all the way if we ever do. Heck he was the best player of this team in the playoffs and took us to the conference finals with our "best" forwards being Lars Eller and Rene Bourque. Problem here isn't with paying Subban, heck are we going to trade every players who make it among the best in the leagues because we'd rather have cheaper options on the roster? And still how can we say it will handcuff us? Subban will probably be paid about 2.5mil more than he would have been if we had signed him 2 years ago when the time was right to ink an emerging star to a good long term deal. Still if a 2.5M difference is what handcuffs us to the point of trading our best player than I say let's stop wishing for the Holly Grail and let's start enjoying our never ending journey into mediocraty. To me moving forward means getting rid of too many ordinary players eating up the cap... Not trading studs to have money for more ordinary players. Exactly. I don't buy the argument that it will handcuff the team. Hell, Chicago is paying two guys 10 million each & they will still compete. Do people want to see the Montreal Expos on ice or do they want a team that tries to win?
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Post by Skilly on Jul 20, 2014 8:14:36 GMT -5
Subban won't bring a cup by himself, neither did Doughty, Toews, Chara, etc... Nobody does, but he's a key part to making it all the way if we ever do. Heck he was the best player of this team in the playoffs and took us to the conference finals with our "best" forwards being Lars Eller and Rene Bourque. Problem here isn't with paying Subban, heck are we going to trade every players who make it among the best in the leagues because we'd rather have cheaper options on the roster? And still how can we say it will handcuff us? Subban will probably be paid about 2.5mil more than he would have been if we had signed him 2 years ago when the time was right to ink an emerging star to a good long term deal. Still if a 2.5M difference is what handcuffs us to the point of trading our best player than I say let's stop wishing for the Holly Grail and let's start enjoying our never ending journey into mediocraty. To me moving forward means getting rid of too many ordinary players eating up the cap... Not trading studs to have money for more ordinary players. Apart of building around superstars, is those superstars realizing what the team is trying to do. I'm not sure how Chicago is now going to fare with Towes and Kane, at over 10 million, but I think they are going to find that keeping other really good players is now going to be hard. Would you trade Subban for a 26yr old Sidney Crosby, if it became available? Crosby and Malkin decided that neither would make more that 8.7 million to keep the team together. So trading Subban for the games best player saves us cap space ...funny huh? Never say never when it comes to trading a player
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