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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 13, 2014 11:58:03 GMT -5
I heard a documentary on radio, where it was shown Don Adams (Get Smart) had stolen material from another comic (a well known guy, but I can't recall his name) and it seems he had a bad habit of doing that. I didn't realize Williams had the same flaw. He really was manic and might be classed as a comic genius. Depression and other mental illnesses seem to follow geniuses around. It seems like there's a fine line between amazing creativity and going bonkers and Williams seems to have walked that line a lot. Too many voices in your head? With most of us, it's our own thoughts bouncing around up there, but I wonder, with expecially bright and creative people, if it isn't a number of thoughts voicing themselves and overwhelming them. In the interviews that I saw of Robin Williams, (nothing really recent), he didn't really look happy or content. Too many demons I guess. They're gone now. I honestly hope he's found peace ... |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Aug 13, 2014 13:44:23 GMT -5
I heard a documentary on radio, where it was shown Don Adams (Get Smart) had stolen material from another comic (a well known guy, but I can't recall his name) and it seems he had a bad habit of doing that. I didn't realize Williams had the same flaw. He really was manic and might be classed as a comic genius. Depression and other mental illnesses seem to follow geniuses around. It seems like there's a fine line between amazing creativity and going bonkers and Williams seems to have walked that line a lot. Too many voices in your head? With most of us, it's our own thoughts bouncing around up there, but I wonder, with expecially bright and creative people, if it isn't a number of thoughts voicing themselves and overwhelming them. In the interviews that I saw of Robin Williams, (nothing really recent), he didn't really look happy or content. Too many demons I guess. They're gone now. I honestly hope he's found peace ... I have the highest admiration for Robin. His style was rapid fire and he often did other people using their voices. I don't know if he stole material or just replayed it as part of his style and since his jokes were rapid fire he may have used things he heard. I give him the benefit of the doubt but don't preclude that he may have plagerised. I have heard him attribute some of his comments to others, but it's difficult to say as much as he did without referencing things he had heard. Regardless of where the material emanated, his delivery was unique and excellent. He patterned himself after Jonathan Winters and they were good friends. I have not heard many complaints. At the bottom of my posts I have five quotes from others that are not my original ideas and they are attributed to the original authors. |
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Post by franko on Aug 13, 2014 14:51:26 GMT -5
At the bottom of my posts I have five quotes from others that are not my original ideas and they are attributed to the original authors. and that's the difference and the reason for the discussion/concern/slag (if that's the word). |
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 13, 2014 16:34:40 GMT -5
In no way am I discrediting his talent. He was a comic savant who didn't need the "boost" he got from pilfering jokes. Yet he did it.
I read a Facebook post from a colleague who appeared with him in "Man of the Year". She said he had the cast and crew in stitches between takes with his natural improv abilities. But one day, Christopher Walken told a joke on set. The next day, Williams told the same joke...seemingly unaware that he'd heard Walken tell it the day before. He had the reputation of "Robbing" Williams for a reason.
As I've said, he was tremendously gifted but he still felt he needed that extra oomph--the insecurity which is no doubt part of the more important bigger picture of mental illness/depression. Hopefully, something good can come from this tragedy.
When such a beloved, high-profile person commits suicide, it seems there's widespread awareness and discussion. There's a ton of pressure in reaching the top, let alone staying there. So many factors. And it may have had nothing to do with show biz pressures at all.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 13, 2014 18:06:45 GMT -5
Lots of comics "borrow" from other comics, Jeff Foxworthy with his red neck routines, Tim Allen when he did stand up before he got his show. The list goes on and on. It's so common that most comics will only practice their routines in small underground clubs. Williams wasn't the first comic to plagiarize material ... I remember my folks loving Milton Berle and Bob Hope and I found this article while looking for "joke theft" ... A cut and paste from Time Magazine:Milton Berle is perhaps the most famous joke thief ever, and didn’t exactly deny it. The thievery caused Hollywood feuds—Zoglin says that, according to showbiz legend, Bob Hope was once so mad at Milton Berle that at a series of benefits in New York in the 1930s he went on stage first and did all of Berle’s material. In later interviews, Berle claimed that it was all a publicity hoax, that he wasn’t really a thief.There's also a reference to what CH was referring to earlier ... Williams was caught doing the same and at least offered to pay for the material if challenged ... in this context I can see the business being kind of cutthroat ... comedians Carlos Mencia and Dane Cook are also mentioned, too ... Cheers. |
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 13, 2014 19:26:53 GMT -5
Right Dis.
Dennis Leary is another one. He took from the great Bill Hicks. Mencia stole a deceased comic's entire act.
I remember Dennis Miller as a guest on Tom Snyder's late night show talking about being the house comic in Pittsburgh before trying his hand in LA. After his first set at the Improv, Budd Friedman (the owner) told him that he'd heard all that material before. Touring comics had been stealing Miller's golden bits on their way through Pittsburgh. Miller said, "It's a good thing I can write, because I had to come up with a whole new act."
Robin Williams knew what he was doing. I vividly remember watching one of his Letterman appearances and he did Ray Romano's closing bit about telephone technology, right down to the final tag line about a fax coming out of his butt. That was well over 15 years ago and it tainted my perception of him.
And to all those who call it "borrowing"...it's not. It's taking credit for and benefitting from someone else's work.
Perhaps this should be a separate thread as I don't want to reduce Williams to being solely a thief. I've mentioned several times that he was a brilliant comedic mind and gifted actor.
Marc Maron interviewed Williams on his WTF web show, and the topic came up. I'll try to find a link.
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 14, 2014 9:54:40 GMT -5
Can't post the link from where I am, but if you search on YouTube for "WTF with Robin Williams" you'll get a great interview. (1:01:58 in length, audio only, with a picture of Marc Maron with a bearded Williams). Maron is a stand-up who has been conducting brilliant (and very candid) podcast interviews with fellow comics.
He's reposted this interview in the wake of the tragedy. Williams talks about everything...even touching on suicide, thievery, substance abuse, etc.
Granted, Williams may be softening things a bit, but Maron has a way of eliciting the most from his subjects.
Definitely worth a listen.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Aug 14, 2014 14:52:59 GMT -5
The quality I admired most in Robin Williams was his delivery, not his jokes.
My heroes in content are Ted Blackman, Jack Todd, and Dennis Miller.
Robin didn't tell great jokes as much as he delivered voices and rapid fire stacato comebacks.
He made auctioneers sound like slow Texas drawls.
As one who has to be slow and deliberate in speaking, I listened to Robin in wonder and awe.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 14, 2014 17:12:25 GMT -5
He could sell it, that's for sure ...
Cheers.
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Post by christrpn on Aug 14, 2014 18:06:50 GMT -5
I don't remember Williams as a stand-up. Or in interviews. He most definately didn't steal his performances on GWH, One hour Photo, dead poet society and Athority on Law and ordre SVU. What amazed me was his ability to be the funiest guy, yet give a dramatic bordering psychotic role and it being flawless. Name me another actor who excelled in both those genres?
Not to mention his personality. The story that Norm Macdonald told on twitter is a perfect example.
We didn't lose just an excellent acadamy award winning actor. We lost a great human being, who seemed to put everyone else's needs before his own.
If hell has both Carlin and Williams, I'm not sure I want to go to heaven.
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Post by Cranky on Aug 15, 2014 5:39:46 GMT -5
The podcast.
Bit of a confession.......I have a problem understanding people with alcoholism, drug and gambling addictions. I had a supervisor that I hired when he was a teen and by his early 30's, very heavy drinker. I tried everything I could to help him overcome alcoholism, until one day, he sliced off his fingers sticking them through a lift truck. I brought him back after he recovered but I never could trust him with multi ton loads and high speed machinery where a mistake could lead to a death......and eventually let him go. No matter what his wife or I did, we never could get him away from drinking for anymore then a few weeks. One of my girls husband and one of my cousins had a gambling addiction. Kept their families in poverty. Never changed.
I get it, it's an addiction, but what I don't get is in all three cases, refusing to get any help. They knew they were destroying their families and themselves and yet, never wanted to do anything about it.
Anywho....
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Post by jkr on Aug 15, 2014 7:05:45 GMT -5
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 15, 2014 9:02:42 GMT -5
I get it, it's an addiction, but what I don't get is in all three cases, refusing to get any help. They knew they were destroying their families and themselves and yet, never wanted to do anything about it. Anywho.... Always seemed to be on course when I was in the service ... one of those courses was in suicide prevention ... a very common course available to the troops that picked up momentum as the war progressed ... two of the most-poignant things I remembered from that course ... we covered addictions and while some people may know they have addictions, they may not know how to ask for help ... secondly, if you're unsure whether someone is contemplating suicide, then come right out and ask them ... I've had to do this once in my life and I never would have thought of asking had I not had that course ... keep coming back to ADHD ... if what I read on the condition is true, then I was certainly ADHD when I joined the service; however, the structure I received from the army certainly kept that in check ... I still don't understand the condition, though ... our prisons are filled with ADHD inmates, but so is our entertainment world ... really enjoyed Mr Williams over the years and that's what I'll remember from him, the joke theft issue not withstanding ... Cheers. |
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 15, 2014 11:01:41 GMT -5
Being diagnosed with such a disease would have a potentially devastating effect on anyone, let alone someone prone to severe depression. I started another thread a while back on comedian Billy Connolly's public disclosure of his relatively recent diagnosis with the same disease. He appears to be handling it a la Michael J. Fox, as he's already woven it into his stage act. Perhaps for Williams--and others already beset with depression--it's the final straw. |
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Post by Cranky on Aug 15, 2014 15:39:57 GMT -5
I get it, it's an addiction, but what I don't get is in all three cases, refusing to get any help. They knew they were destroying their families and themselves and yet, never wanted to do anything about it. Anywho.... Always seemed to be on course when I was in the service ... one of those courses was in suicide prevention ... a very common course available to the troops that picked up momentum as the war progressed ... two of the most-poignant things I remembered from that course ... we covered addictions and while some people may know they have addictions, they may not know how to ask for help ... secondly, if you're unsure whether someone is contemplating suicide, then come right out and ask them ... I've had to do this once in my life and I never would have thought of asking had I not had that course ... keep coming back to ADHD ... if what I read on the condition is true, then I was certainly ADHD when I joined the service; however, the structure I received from the army certainly kept that in check ... I still don't understand the condition, though ... our prisons are filled with ADHD inmates, but so is our entertainment world ... really enjoyed Mr Williams over the years and that's what I'll remember from him, the joke theft issue not withstanding ... Cheers. The military people get a pass in taking some of the personal responsibility. We ask them to do what needs to be done, particularly on the battlefield and for some, that will take a toll. On the other hand, a guy working in a factory who sliced his finger off because he came to work hung over.....is a different matter. With a wife and three children, he needs a head shake....ditto for the gamblers. Coincidentally, now that I think about it, they all had three children. They certainly can't use their jobs or family as excuses for their addictions. I hope I'm not mixing things up. I'm talking about gambling, drinking, drugs. Not something PTSD. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Aug 18, 2014 13:49:00 GMT -5
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 20, 2014 12:49:53 GMT -5
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Post by CentreHice on Sept 23, 2014 10:29:07 GMT -5
As mentioned in another thread, Billy Connolly has also been diagnosed with Parkinson's….and HERE he relates how he's managing…and his final experiences with Robin Williams. Not in-depth by any means, but an interesting read. |
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 17, 2016 8:05:58 GMT -5
Updating the thread with the autopsy results from November of 2014. Autopsy Revealed Lewy Body DementiaKelsey Grammer's character in Boss is diagnosed with LBD in Episode 1...and the series illustrates its devastating progression. Horrible. |
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