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Post by Polarice on Sept 10, 2014 10:01:26 GMT -5
TSNOne of my favorite Habs....I still wear his Sweater every now and again. It would be nice to have him sign a one day contract and then retire a Hab....get it done MB!!
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Post by habsorbed on Sept 10, 2014 10:26:31 GMT -5
TSNOne of my favorite Habs....I still wear his Sweater every now and again. It would be nice to have him sign a one day contract and then retire a Hab....get it done MB!! I'm in favour! Still brings me chills and tears when i watch the ovation he got when he returned from cancer. He was a class act and a great Habs captain!
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Post by habernac on Sept 10, 2014 10:29:27 GMT -5
O Captain, my Captain!
This courageous little man is my favourite player. My 8 year old wears #11 because of him. Happy retirement, sir. Well deserved.
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Post by blny on Sept 10, 2014 12:45:44 GMT -5
Bring up Koivu, and like you guys, emotions stir. I too had a strong connection to him, the player. I wish him nothing but the best in retirement. I know he found some peace when he went to Anaheim. I'm sure he'll find even more post playing days.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 10, 2014 13:06:33 GMT -5
He has a tremendous amount of heart, and if not for the early knee injury would probably have his sweater retired. He would have scored a ton of points. He and Henri Richard had a lot in common (other than his teammates and the Cups, of course).
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Post by Polarice on Sept 10, 2014 13:58:09 GMT -5
He has a tremendous amount of heart, and if not for the early knee injury would probably have his sweater retired. He would have scored a ton of points. He and Henri Richard had a lot in common (other than his teammates and the Cups, of course). I think he will still have his sweater retired.
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Post by blny on Sept 10, 2014 14:38:40 GMT -5
He has a tremendous amount of heart, and if not for the early knee injury would probably have his sweater retired. He would have scored a ton of points. He and Henri Richard had a lot in common (other than his teammates and the Cups, of course). I think he will still have his sweater retired. Possible. If so, I think it's more a sentimental retirement than one based on stats/accomplishments. He was certainly my favorite player during his tenure. By a mile. There are several 'what ifs' that hover over him though. That first knee injury when he was leading the league in scoring. The eye injury. The fact management did a horrible job surrounding him with talent. He was a prime time player though, and consistently elevated his game during the playoffs. The heart, guts, and determination are what I'll remember most.
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Post by christrpn on Sept 10, 2014 16:36:47 GMT -5
I think he will still have his sweater retired. Possible. If so, I think it's more a sentimental retirement than one based on stats/accomplishments. He was certainly my favorite player during his tenure. By a mile. There are several 'what ifs' that hover over him though. That first knee injury when he was leading the league in scoring. The eye injury. The fact management did a horrible job surrounding him with talent. He was a prime time player though, and consistently elevated his game during the playoffs. The heart, guts, and determination are what I'll remember most. define "accomplishment". What Koivu did to represent the Habs organization on AND off the ice rivals anyone else on the team. His donation of the CT scan machine to the Montreal General Hospital cements him as one of the greats for the community. His tenure as captain is one of the longest in Habs history and he wore that with pride. Take away the injuries, give him a team with talent and I think we see a player with more points than he has now. I don't think we fully grasp the lack of talent with which he had to play. With 48pnts in 54 playoff games played, he's one of the best clutch players of my time. We have to stop comparing him to the greats of the past. He's by far the best Hab from my generation.
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Post by blny on Sept 10, 2014 17:13:59 GMT -5
Possible. If so, I think it's more a sentimental retirement than one based on stats/accomplishments. He was certainly my favorite player during his tenure. By a mile. There are several 'what ifs' that hover over him though. That first knee injury when he was leading the league in scoring. The eye injury. The fact management did a horrible job surrounding him with talent. He was a prime time player though, and consistently elevated his game during the playoffs. The heart, guts, and determination are what I'll remember most. define "accomplishment". What Koivu did to represent the Habs organization on AND off the ice rivals anyone else on the team. His donation of the CT scan machine to the Montreal General Hospital cements him as one of the greats for the community. His tenure as captain is one of the longest in Habs history and he wore that with pride. Take away the injuries, give him a team with talent and I think we see a player with more points than he has now. I don't think we fully grasp the lack of talent with which he had to play. With 48pnts in 54 playoff games played, he's one of the best clutch players of my time. We have to stop comparing him to the greats of the past. He's by far the best Hab from my generation. I'm not comparing him to the past. I'm comparing him to his generation. I think he needs to be at the level of a ppg to warrant the honour of a retired jersey, or HOF. That's the standard of a pmc during his generation imo. He was very good. A few less injuries, and one elite winger for the bulk of his career, and he's top tier.
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Post by Polarice on Sept 10, 2014 17:46:11 GMT -5
The HHOF is one thing....I don't think he'll ever get a sniff.....but retiring his number is totally different. It's not about his stats, its about how he wore that sweater, what he did on and off the ice, and how much he meant to the fans for many years. His standing ovations are second only to the Rockets. Like Blny said, when you mention his name, emotions stir, and why is that? It's not because he has over 800 points, its about how he got those points.....that's what makes him special to us.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 10, 2014 18:23:42 GMT -5
I always respected him ... thought he was the target of a lot of unfair, unwarranted criticism ... he was expected to carry the team on his back all by himself, but he wasn't that type of player ... great triggers from his career in Montreal, the return from illness being right up there ... quite the night ... wish him well ...
Cheers.
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Post by Willie Dog on Sept 10, 2014 20:29:30 GMT -5
what Mb needs to do is make him an ambassador for the team. That is how you honor him. I don't think they'll retire his number. Molson should put in a ring of honour and put his number there
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Post by frozone on Sept 10, 2014 22:16:42 GMT -5
Few athletes manage to connect with their team's city the way Saku connected with Montreal. He indeed was exceptional and deserves to be honoured. Its a must. I won't be disappointed if his number is retired, but I think it would be more fitting to name an award or trophy after him.
I don't know if it's too late, but I would think that now is the perfect time to sign him for a day as Habs captain and let him retire with the C (and #11, as I'm sure Gal would allow it).
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Post by habsorbed on Sept 10, 2014 22:54:10 GMT -5
I love Saku and believe his number should be retired. However the only way i see that ever happening is if we don't win a Cup in the next 20 years. Right now, our standards remain high as the past is still close. But if we don't win soon those standards will drop and people will recognize how good Saku was and how little he had to play with. Teams with less prestigious histories than the Habs are always retiring numbers of less than great players (Stan Smyl, Trevor Linden, Danny Gare). To illustrate the Habs history and Saku's predicament: he is not getting into the HHOF and no Habs number has been retired without the player being in the HHOF. There are many Habs in the HHOF whose numbers have not been retired. When they do raise #11 I hope they don't misspell Saku's namer so it reads "Gomez"
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Post by BadCompany on Sept 11, 2014 7:08:54 GMT -5
His return from cancer, and the ovation that followed, is still one of the most emotional things I have ever seen in the sporting world. Magical. Time tends to fade our memories of things, but here is a great article on what Koivu was going through, written in the middle of his battle. espn.go.com/magazine/vol5no07koivu.htmlAnd, just for fun, a little Koivu tribute video. With Finnish subtitles of course! www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bHdfYh4pYE&wide
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Post by Willie Dog on Sept 11, 2014 9:22:55 GMT -5
His return from cancer, and the ovation that followed, is still one of the most emotional things I have ever seen in the sporting world. Magical. Time tends to fade our memories of things, but here is a great article on what Koivu was going through, written in the middle of his battle. espn.go.com/magazine/vol5no07koivu.htmlAnd, just for fun, a little Koivu tribute video. With Finnish subtitles of course! www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bHdfYh4pYE&wideThanks for posting the vid BC... you captured the right word to describe it... Magical. They unfortunately it would be more difficult to sign him for 1 day. I heard he submitted his retirement papers so he would have to unretire, sign 1 day contract and then resubmit his retirement papers with the league.
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Post by CentreHice on Sept 11, 2014 9:46:24 GMT -5
A special place for him, yes.
Not sure if it's #11 in the rafters….but a special place, nonetheless.
During our darkest era, Saku Koivu held the torch high.
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Post by Skilly on Sept 11, 2014 11:00:46 GMT -5
We have to stop comparing him to the greats of the past. He's by far the best Hab from my generation. No ... let's do compare him to the Habs greats of the past Saku Koivu's next point will be his 500th of his career. Not a bad accomplishment for a guy who has been injured one-third of his career. And with four more points Koivu will be the 20th highest scoring Hab of all-time. So with that in mind, I compiled a list of Saku Koivu's Montreal Canadien career highlights. Event | Game# | Opponent | Date | Scoring-PLay | Goalie | 1st-goal/point | 7 | Kings | Oct.23,95 | Koivu(Petrov,Bure) | B.Dafoe | 1st-assist | 8 | Panthers | Oct.25,95 | Brunet(Koivu,Damphousse) | J.Vanbiesbrouk | 100th-point | 131 | Capitals | Apr.10,97 | Bure(Malakhov,Koivu) | B.Ranford | 100th-assist | 187 | Panthers | Mar.9,98 | Brisebois(Koivu,Savage) | J.Vanbiesbrouk | 200th-point | 264 | Lightning | Apr.13,99 | Savage(Koivu,Zubrus) | D.Wilkinson | 200th-assist | 373 | Avalanche | Dec.6,02 | Kilger(Koivu,Petrov) | P.Roy | 300th-point | 381 | Sabres | Dec.21,02 | Koivu(Rivet) | M.Norenen | 100th-goal | 401 | Capitals | Jan.25,03 | Koivu(Brisebois) | O.Kolzig | 400th-point | 500 | MapleLeafs | Oct.8,05 | Perezhogin(Koivu,Kovalev) | E.Belfour | 300th-assist | 530 | Stars | Jan.16,06 | Ryder(Koivu,Higgins) | M.Turco | 500th-point | 611 | Thrashers | Jan.9,07 | Ryder(Koivu,Markov) | K.Lehtonen | 400th-assist | 689 | Lightning | Jan.3,08 | Higgins(Koivu,Markov) | K.Ramo | 600th-point | 733 | Lightning | Oct.20,08 | Koivu(Markov,Tanguay) | T.Vokoun | last-HAB-point | 791 | Bruins | Apr.09,09 | Schneider(Hamrlik,Koivu) | T.Thomas | 200th-goal | 830 | Red Wings | Jan.5,10 | Koivu(unassisted) | J.Howard |
Top 20 Montreal Canadien Career Point LeadersRank | Player | Games | Goals | Assists | Points | 1 | G.Lafleur | 961 | 518 | 728 | 1246 | 2 | J.Beliveau | 1125 | 507 | 712 | 1219 | 3 | H.Richard | 1256 | 358 | 688 | 1046 | 4 | M.Richard | 978 | 544 | 421 | 965 | 5 | L.Robinson | 1202 | 197 | 686 | 883 | 6 | Y.Cournoyer | 968 | 428 | 435 | 863 | 7 | J.Lemaire | 853 | 366 | 469 | 835 | 8 | S.Shutt | 871 | 408 | 368 | 776 | 9 | B.Geoffrion | 766 | 371 | 388 | 759 | 10 | S.Koivu* | 792 | 191 | 450 | 641 | 11 | E.Lach | 664 | 215 | 408 | 623 | 12 | M.Naslund | 617 | 243 | 369 | 612 | 13 | D.Moore | 654 | 254 | 340 | 594 | 14 | C.Provost | 1005 | 254 | 335 | 589 | 15 | M.Tremblay | 852 | 258 | 326 | 584 | 16 | G.Lapointe | 777 | 166 | 406 | 572 | 17 | P.Mahovlich | 581 | 223 | 346 | 569 | 18 | G.Carbonneau | 912 | 221 | 326 | 547 | 19 | H."Toe"Blake | 577 | 235 | 292 | 527 | 20 | R.Rousseau | 644 | 200 | 322 | 522 |
Accomplishments:1) Co-holds the record for most overtime goals in a season by a Montreal Canadien (3) 2) Won Bill Masteron Trophy - 2001 3) Won King Clancy Trophy - 2007 4) NHL all-star game (1998) ... was invited 2 other times and turned it down 5) Ranks 10th on career Habs scoring list 6) Ranks 3rd on career Habs scoring list for centers 7) Ranks 4th on career Habs assist list for centers 8) Led WC in scoring - 1999 9) WC all-star team - 1994, 1995, 1999 10) Named Best forward at WC - 1995, 1999 11) Led NHL in scoring in 1996 (13-25-38) prior to knee injury on December 7th
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Post by Skilly on Sept 11, 2014 11:04:28 GMT -5
To retire Saku's number ... first Mats Naslund and Steve Shutt would have to be retired.
But statistically, Saku fairs well ... just didn't bring glory to the City in the form of Cups, and that will always be his "knock"
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Post by franko on Sept 11, 2014 11:17:55 GMT -5
But statistically, Saku fairs well ... just didn't bring glory to the City in the form of Cups, and that will always be his "knock" as been said, The Montreal Canadiens are measured by Stanley Cups, not Conference or Division championships. Anything less is mediocre. can't blame Saku for management's ineptness to surround him with decent players and acceptance with medioctrity. Habs might need to think about a "second tier honour" . . . though my feeling is that if you don't honour me with the best award you have, don't award me at all.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 11, 2014 13:51:21 GMT -5
Few athletes manage to connect with their team's city the way Saku connected with Montreal. He indeed was exceptional and deserves to be honoured. Its a must. I won't be disappointed if his number is retired, but I think it would be more fitting to name an award or trophy after him. I don't know if it's too late, but I would think that now is the perfect time to sign him for a day as Habs captain and let him retire with the C (and #11, as I'm sure Gal would allow it). I didn't like the way the organization, more specifically, Gainey, treated him on his departure from Montreal ... it had more of a Gauthier-esque touch to it and I thought Koivu commanded a lot more respect than that ... as Willie Dog already suggested, I'd love to see him back in Montreal as an ambassador to the club and I'd hope he'd take if offered ... he's done a lot for the organization over the years and a lot for the city of Montreal, too ... Chapeau!!
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Sept 11, 2014 14:35:31 GMT -5
I think that the emotion of the moment is a nice thing and Koivu played hard, he played hurt and he played with integrity and all that is great..BUT....in all honesty he was un undersized player with slightly above average skills for an NHL player. The best comparison to him would be Mats Naslund who in his own right was a very good player but should never be retired number or HOF considerations. I have been a life long fan of the Habs for 50 years and I had forgotten Naslund until I saw his stats and gave it some thought and in 20 years most Habs fans will not remember Koivu with the same emotion. Koivu was very good but he was never a superstar. He never carried the team on his back for extended periods of time or struck fear in the opposition to mount a third period comeback. You may argue that he was never surrounded by better wingers or played in an era that was a lot more clutch and grab but a great player rises above that. I also remember many debates on this forum of how he should be the second line center which is not where you want your leader to be. I felt when he was let walk as a free agent it was time and the team was not going anywhere with Koivu as your number one star. The Habs also do not need a second tier to honour past almost greats. Do you honour Lambert, Brisbois, or Gionata next? You leaders hold the torch high..you other guys just stand there and try not to burn yourselves.
If you could retire a name or honour a guy for being an excellent human being then by all means but not on his hockey skills.
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Post by Willie Dog on Sept 11, 2014 14:51:23 GMT -5
I think that the emotion of the moment is a nice thing and Koivu played hard, he played hurt and he played with integrity and all that is great..BUT....in all honesty he was un undersized player with slightly above average skills for an NHL player. The best comparison to him would be Mats Naslund who in his own right was a very good player but should never be retired number or HOF considerations. I have been a life long fan of the Habs for 50 years and I had forgotten Naslund until I saw his stats and gave it some thought and in 20 years most Habs fans will not remember Koivu with the same emotion. Koivu was very good but he was never a superstar. He never carried the team on his back for extended periods of time or struck fear in the opposition to mount a third period comeback. You may argue that he was never surrounded by better wingers or played in an era that was a lot more clutch and grab but a great player rises above that. I also remember many debates on this forum of how he should be the second line center which is not where you want your leader to be. I felt when he was let walk as a free agent it was time and the team was not going anywhere with Koivu as your number one star. The Habs also do not need a second tier to honour past almost greats. Do you honour Lambert, Brisbois, or Gionata next? You leaders hold the torch high..you other guys just stand there and try not to burn yourselves. If you could retire a name or honour a guy for being an excellent human being then by all means but not on his hockey skills. I don't have an issue with not retiring his number, but I would like the organisation to do something. For all he did in the community and for all he did for the team, he deserves something. Regarding hockey ability, I would compare what Saku did to what Henri Richard did... Richard's point totals are similar, was a good leader and captain for 5 years, and has 10 cups but his number was retired because he was on stacked teams and he had 20 years with the Habs. If Saku was on the teams Henri Richard was on, number 11 would be retired today imo.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 11, 2014 15:17:32 GMT -5
He never carried the team on his back for extended periods of time ... Certainly not by his own choice, HF, but I thought that kind of responsibility was thrust upon him by the organization ... like, I really thought he had no choice ... no disrespect to Saku, but we never really had a bonafide no.1 centre in Montreal while he was there ... generally speaking his best games were when he was second-fiddle behind Vinny Damphousse ... I just feel he never really had the supporting cast surrounding him ... if he had we'd probably be having a different conversation ... Cheers.
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Post by CentreHice on Sept 11, 2014 15:45:10 GMT -5
To retire Saku's number ... first Mats Naslund and Steve Shutt would have to be retired. Agree...and I would add Jacques Lemaire to that list. Thanks for the stats breakdown above.
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Post by franko on Sept 11, 2014 16:12:42 GMT -5
Every generation of Habs fans has someone to remember. Most in fact more than one. now we have PK and Carry. The Richards are remembered. Beliveau and the Roadrunner.
That generation - only Saku.
I feel for them.
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Post by 24in93 on Sept 11, 2014 18:46:58 GMT -5
I think that the emotion of the moment is a nice thing and Koivu played hard, he played hurt and he played with integrity and all that is great..BUT....in all honesty he was un undersized player with slightly above average skills for an NHL player. The best comparison to him would be Mats Naslund who in his own right was a very good player but should never be retired number or HOF considerations. I have been a life long fan of the Habs for 50 years and I had forgotten Naslund until I saw his stats and gave it some thought and in 20 years most Habs fans will not remember Koivu with the same emotion. Koivu was very good but he was never a superstar. He never carried the team on his back for extended periods of time or struck fear in the opposition to mount a third period comeback. You may argue that he was never surrounded by better wingers or played in an era that was a lot more clutch and grab but a great player rises above that. I also remember many debates on this forum of how he should be the second line center which is not where you want your leader to be. I felt when he was let walk as a free agent it was time and the team was not going anywhere with Koivu as your number one star. The Habs also do not need a second tier to honour past almost greats. Do you honour Lambert, Brisbois, or Gionata next? You leaders hold the torch high..you other guys just stand there and try not to burn yourselves. If you could retire a name or honour a guy for being an excellent human being then by all means but not on his hockey skills. HEY Mats Naslund is one of my all-time favourite Habs! Still the last Hab to score more than 100 pts in a season (pretty sad actually). Marty St. Louis wears #26 in honour of Mats. I get your comparison though and agree neither should be in the HOF or have their number retired. Sidenote - I have one of Mats Naslund's game-used Torspo sticks. It's my prized possession.
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Post by CentreHice on Sept 11, 2014 19:39:44 GMT -5
Every generation of Habs fans has someone to remember. Most in fact more than one. now we have PK and Carry. The Richards are remembered. Beliveau and the Roadrunner. That generation - only Saku. I feel for them. The darkest era....thus far. Even the hope seemed hopeless. Biggest highlight for me: 2001-02. Koivu had returned. Gilmour had held the fort together. Theo was on fire in winning the Hart/Vezina. We pulled it together and made the playoffs after missing the previous 3 seasons. #1 Boston vs. #8 Montreal. Eliminating the Bruins in Game 6 on home ice, with only crowd noise in the background.....as some part of CBC/HNIC was on strike. (Too bad they came back for Round 2....Millen GRRRRR) After the McLaren clotheslining of Zednik in Game 4, we answered with two nail-biting, out-matched 2-1 victories.
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Post by christrpn on Sept 13, 2014 7:10:52 GMT -5
Hockey fans knock Koivu's tenure as HABS captain because he never won any hardware based on stats and never brought the Habs to glory. Here in Lala land, Koivu's tenure as captain is tarnished by the fact that he didn't master a fourth language. Speaking Finnish, Swedish and English fluently wasn't enough. Having his #11 hanging by the rafters along the sides of all the nice FRENCH speaking player would cause... nothing, quebecers are lazy, but you get the point.
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Post by PTH on Sept 13, 2014 12:06:34 GMT -5
.... Having his #11 hanging by the rafters along the sides of all the nice FRENCH speaking player would cause... nothing, quebecers are lazy, but you get the point. Excuse me
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