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Post by CentreHice on Nov 27, 2014 12:47:13 GMT -5
A dedicated, sticky thread for updates, comments, suggestions concerning our PP….until it's no longer an issue.
We currently sit 25th @ 12.7%. Only 1 PP goal on the road.
It can't go anywhere but up….here's what MT/Lacroix had going today--Thursday, Nov. 27.
The only change is 4 forwards on the first wave.
As per TSN690...
1st Unit
Pacioretty, Desharnais, Parenteau
Subban, Eller (rotating with Sekac)
2nd Unit
Gallagher, Pleks, Galchenyuk
Markov, Gonchar
We gotta get it going against Buffalo this weekend…they sit 24th in PK%.
I'm not sure it's the personnel….I think it's the strategies. Perimeter play hoping to clear an opening for a point shot (which is usually well-covered) isn't cutting it.
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Post by frozone on Nov 27, 2014 16:52:06 GMT -5
I agree. The units are quite good imo. The point shot simply won't work unless the coaching staff designs another weapon. It can be a shooter positioned on the half boards a la Kovalev, or the back-door play that Markov perfected a few years ago.
We have Patches and Galchenyuk, 2 forwards with lethal shots, that should be shooting threats on the 2 PP units. DD and Pleks are the obvious passers. Subban, Markov and Gonchar are all great quarterbacks on the point. Clearly, our weakness is in net presence. Between Eller, Gallagher, Sekac and Prust, I think we should be able to correct that issue. Heck, even Weise or Bournival once healthy... anyone with enough jam to set up shop in front of the net.
At this point, every wasted PP just proves to the rest of the league that the way to shut down our PP is by covering the point shot. Putting Parenteau on the PP and Eller/Sekac up front is a good start imo, so I'm glad the coaching staff is evolving, albeit slowly.
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Post by blny on Nov 27, 2014 17:43:34 GMT -5
I've been begging for Eller and Sekac to get a chance at first PP unit. I'm tired of them getting on with 30 seconds or less left and being the first to generate a shot.
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 27, 2014 22:31:04 GMT -5
I've been begging for Eller and Sekac to get a chance at first PP unit. I'm tired of them getting on with 30 seconds or less left and being the first to generate a shot. Me to. I heard on tsn690 that they were doing a 1-3-1. I wonder if that is Lacroix's doing.
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Post by blny on Nov 28, 2014 9:36:31 GMT -5
I've been begging for Eller and Sekac to get a chance at first PP unit. I'm tired of them getting on with 30 seconds or less left and being the first to generate a shot. Me to. I heard on tsn690 that they were doing a 1-3-1. I wonder if that is Lacroix's doing. It still bothers me that a goon who played less than 200 NHL games is our power play coach. Special teams coaches should be people who were effective in that role as players first, and can then actually teach it second. It's no different than getting a custodian to teach a physics class.
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Post by halihab on Nov 28, 2014 10:03:32 GMT -5
My ideal PP would be:
Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Sekac
Subban - Gonchar
DD can't win any face-offs in the off. zone.
Second unit:
Parenteau - Plekanec - Eller/Gallagher
Markov - Gilbert
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Post by Polarice on Nov 28, 2014 11:10:14 GMT -5
They have been practicing with Parenteau on the point with Subban. I guess he has had some experience on the point in previous years.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 28, 2014 14:22:18 GMT -5
Me to. I heard on tsn690 that they were doing a 1-3-1. I wonder if that is Lacroix's doing. It still bothers me that a goon who played less than 200 NHL games is our power play coach. Special teams coaches should be people who were effective in that role as players first, and can then actually teach it second. It's no different than getting a custodian to teach a physics class. Its not quite that cut and dry, blny. Ok, not a custodian doing brain surgery, so lets take that brain surgeon as an example. Has the knowledge and tools and has that great touch that's needed, to avoid cutting the spinal cord, or some other important bit as they chop away. How do you teach that great touch? It's not a surprise that the greatest coaches have not been anywhere near the best players when they played. Usually you get some guy who has had to bust their butt and learn every nuance and trick, just to stay in the league or in the business, who become the best coaches. Look at the top coaches today. Babcock, Tippet, Trotz, Quenneville, maybe Vigneault, Cooper, and I could go on...none will make the hall of fame as a player. Quenneville at least, played in the NHL. I can't find any playing stats on Cooper, who may be one of the better PP coaches around. I didn't know he was born in Prince George BC either. Not important. Anyway, the best coaches are people who can teach, while the best players, as you know, do things intuitively and instinctively and have no idea how they did it, or they are part of a select group who are athletically able to do something, which 99% of the rest of us can't, so what's the point of trying to teach it? Having said that, I have no idea what kind of coach Lacroix is. There's not much data on hockeydb to show how his teams did, without spending more time that I haven't got. Cheers.
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Post by blny on Nov 28, 2014 14:42:31 GMT -5
It still bothers me that a goon who played less than 200 NHL games is our power play coach. Special teams coaches should be people who were effective in that role as players first, and can then actually teach it second. It's no different than getting a custodian to teach a physics class. Its not quite that cut and dry, blny. Ok, not a custodian doing brain surgery, so lets take that brain surgeon as an example. Has the knowledge and tools and has that great touch that's needed, to avoid cutting the spinal cord, or some other important bit as they chop away. How do you teach that great touch? It's not a surprise that the greatest coaches have not been anywhere near the best players when they played. Usually you get some guy who has had to bust their butt and learn every nuance and trick, just to stay in the league or in the business, who become the best coaches. Look at the top coaches today. Babcock, Tippet, Trotz, Quenneville, maybe Vigneault, Cooper, and I could go on...none will make the hall of fame as a player. Quenneville at least, played in the NHL. I can't find any playing stats on Cooper, who may be one of the better PP coaches around. I didn't know he was born in Prince George BC either. Not important. Anyway, the best coaches are people who can teach, while the best players, as you know, do things intuitively and instinctively and have no idea how they did it, or they are part of a select group who are athletically able to do something, which 99% of the rest of us can't, so what's the point of trying to teach it? Having said that, I have no idea what kind of coach Lacroix is. There's not much data on hockeydb to show how his teams did, without spending more time that I haven't got. Cheers. No doubt that knowledge and teaching are not directly related. But, you can't teach something you have no background in. As a head coach, imo, it's about motivation, critical thinking and analysis. That's where grinders often make good coaches. When it comes to specialty items, the skill set needs to be there to be able to pass on. George Parros isn't going to teach Galchenyuk how to take penalty shots, and a guy like Lacroix shouldn't be doing our power play. It may not have been perfect under Gallant, but at least Gallant was a guy who knew about scoring goals in various ways, playing with skill players, and playing in power play situations.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 28, 2014 15:56:19 GMT -5
Me to. I heard on tsn690 that they were doing a 1-3-1. I wonder if that is Lacroix's doing. It still bothers me that a goon who played less than 200 NHL games is our power play coach. Special teams coaches should be people who were effective in that role as players first, and can then actually teach it second. It's no different than getting a custodian to teach a physics class. ...to be fair, Lacroix also has 12 years of coaching under his belt. *** 1-3-1 is the system Boucher was kinda famous for... and Lacroix worked with Boucher many years at different levels.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 28, 2014 17:53:34 GMT -5
It still bothers me that a goon who played less than 200 NHL games is our power play coach. Special teams coaches should be people who were effective in that role as players first, and can then actually teach it second. It's no different than getting a custodian to teach a physics class. ...to be fair, Lacroix also has 12 years of coaching under his belt. *** 1-3-1 is the system Boucher was kinda famous for... and Lacroix worked with Boucher many years at different levels. I thought the most effective specialty teams in recent memory were under Kirk Muller's tenure ... don't know what he did right but his strategies seemed to work ... Cheers.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 28, 2014 18:09:12 GMT -5
They have been practicing with Parenteau on the point with Subban. I guess he has had some experience on the point in previous years. Well, it's something new, anyway ... me, I'd try plunking Tinordi at the top of the crease and tell him to stand there ... the Bruins do it with Chara and it's effective ... I remember Bowman doing it with Jacques Laperierre (and Gilles Lupiens maybe) and it was effective back in the day ... not something you'd do all the time, but it might be worth a try ... Cheers.
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 28, 2014 19:20:09 GMT -5
They have been practicing with Parenteau on the point with Subban. I guess he has had some experience on the point in previous years. Well, it's something new, anyway ... me, I'd try plunking Tinordi at the top of the crease and tell him to stand there ... the Bruins do it with Chara and it's effective ... I remember Bowman doing it with Jacques Laperierre (and Gilles Lupiens maybe) and it was effective back in the day ... not something you'd do all the time, but it might be worth a try ... Cheers. You and me Rick. I posted that we need soneone big in front not the midgets DD and bGal. I wanted Tinordi in frint of that net for a while
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 29, 2014 22:42:39 GMT -5
Rule number one.....if something does not work for gameafter game, then that should be a big hint to CHANGE IT.
Our problem is pretty simple, we are playing a perimeter PP. Take out the lanes and we are going nowhere fast.
Solution is also simple, crash the net. As soon as we have the puck, two guys stick their butts in the goalies face. How close? The goalie should know what they ate for breakfast 4 days ago. Let the two bottom defenseman struggle with our two forwards and then it's 3 on 2 five feet past the blue paint. Given PKs skating and puck possession, that should be a nightmare for their 2.
It's not rocket science....do that and we're golden.
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Post by stoat on Dec 12, 2014 3:51:36 GMT -5
They have been practicing with Parenteau on the point with Subban. I guess he has had some experience on the point in previous years. Well, it's something new, anyway ... me, I'd try plunking Tinordi at the top of the crease and tell him to stand there ... the Bruins do it with Chara and it's effective ... I remember Bowman doing it with Jacques Laperierre (and Gilles Lupiens maybe) and it was effective back in the day ... not something you'd do all the time, but it might be worth a try ... Cheers. How long would you be patient with those tactics if they don't succeed. I'd prefer to station a forward who knows what to do with a puck at the top of the crease. I read somewhere about an old referee. Bill Chadwick, who became a radio commentator for the Rangers. He used to say of some players that they're as handy as a cow with a gun. I'm not saying Tinordi is a cow but he's certainly not Datsyuk.
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Post by Skilly on Dec 12, 2014 6:18:12 GMT -5
Daysyuk plays the point usually on the PP, .... There is a reason they call Franzen "The Mule"
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 12, 2014 7:47:17 GMT -5
Well, it's something new, anyway ... me, I'd try plunking Tinordi at the top of the crease and tell him to stand there ... the Bruins do it with Chara and it's effective ... I remember Bowman doing it with Jacques Laperierre (and Gilles Lupiens maybe) and it was effective back in the day ... not something you'd do all the time, but it might be worth a try ... Cheers. How long would you be patient with those tactics if they don't succeed. I'd prefer to station a forward who knows what to do with a puck at the top of the crease. I read somewhere about an old referee. Bill Chadwick, who became a radio commentator for the Rangers. He used to say of some players that they're as handy as a cow with a gun. I'm not saying Tinordi is a cow but he's certainly not Datsyuk. I suggested Tinordi because there isn't a forward on the roster right now that will do just that and nothing seems to be working anyway, so what is there to lose by simply giving it a try ... how long would I wait? ... I do not know, but I've seen it work in the past with both our club and elsewhere ... Tinordi is no cow, sure, but why would you suggest Datsyuk when he even isn't on our team ... tell me one player on our club that would compare to Datsyuk in experience, talent and character (he's one of the most respected players in the league) ... is there a player on our roster that you'd like to see do this ... do you have a solution/suggestion ... Cheers.
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Post by BadCompany on Dec 12, 2014 8:56:49 GMT -5
One thing I've noticed is that the Habs simply do not close the box. I mean, I know everyone complains about perimeter play, but at times this team can be ridiculous. Like during the last 5-3 the puck was back at the point and I swear the defenders were a good 15-20 feet away from the blueline. But the defensemen didn't move in. You gotta collapse the box, squeeze it. Especially when they're giving it to you. It's pretty simple, just move in three or for feet and now you've got a closer shot, and different passing angles.
Alas...
I remember Ron Hainsey used to crash the net on the powerplay for the Bulldogs, way back in the day. Can't remember who the coach was a the time (Boucher? Lever?). But it might not be a bad strategy. Instead of just having a guy stand there, like Tinordi, you have somebody like Subban or Gilbert suddenly just race through the box and plant himself in front of the crease. Work Gallagher in there beside him and suddenly you got all kinds of havoc going on there. The opposing defensemen can leave them there, which creates a problem for the goalie, or they can go in and try and clear them out, which brings more bodies to the front of the net, and frees up the wingers for a one-timer. Once the play starts to deteriorate Markov/Gilbert pop back up to the point and hold the blueline.
Then you throw in the occasional back-door play, which Markov excels at, where the defenseman slides down, but not to the front of net; he goes to the side for the cross-ice pass. Whoever is covering said defenseman won't know if he's going to the net to tip a shot, or off to the side to get a pass. The point being to create confusion and match-up problems for the opposing team. Right now the Habs are pretty easy to defend. One guy covers Subban and the one-timer, one guy covers Markov and his passing. The other two simply play a down-low zone. You gotta start moving guys around, getting the defenders to turn and start chasing players, or wondering where their cover went. If the penalty killers aren't breaking a sweat because they never have to move more than six feet away from their designated area then you just aren't doing a good job. It's very easy to just stand there and get in the way of shots, everybody does it now, they don't even consider it courageous anymore. So you gotta figure out a way to get guys moving around and out of position. Otherwise they'll just stand there, block shots, and wait for the penalty to run out.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 13, 2014 16:17:05 GMT -5
Instead of just having a guy stand there, like Tinordi, you have somebody like Subban or Gilbert suddenly just race through the box and plant himself in front of the crease. Work Gallagher in there beside him and suddenly you got all kinds of havoc going on there. Go to the net = Hockey 101 ... I don't know what happened last night but the PP fired on all cylinders ... Cheers.
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Post by christrpn on Dec 14, 2014 8:33:58 GMT -5
Instead of just having a guy stand there, like Tinordi, you have somebody like Subban or Gilbert suddenly just race through the box and plant himself in front of the crease. Work Gallagher in there beside him and suddenly you got all kinds of havoc going on there. Go to the net = Hockey 101 ... I don't know what happened last night but the PP fired on all cylinders ... Cheers. shooting the puck helps. You wouldn't know because LA did everything they could, but just look at the first PP goal. PK gets the puck, sekac goes to the front of the net and PK takes a simple wrist shot. No fancy dancy stick work hoping to get closer to the net. No looking for that perfect pass.
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 14, 2014 14:57:10 GMT -5
It's very easy to just stand there and get in the way of shots, everybody does it now, they don't even consider it courageous anymore. So you gotta figure out a way to get guys moving around and out of position. Otherwise they'll just stand there, block shots, and wait for the penalty to run out. Back to PK, over to Markov, back to OK, over to Markov, back to PK.....dohhh......rheee....miiii....faaa.....soooo NOTHING Peeeepeeee! Seriously, the Hab's have all the tools to have the best PP in the league and we are bottom third! This is all about lack of coaching. Instead of somebody on the bench forcing them to change what doesn't work, they rely on a perimeter that is more predictable then a broken clock.
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 7, 2015 10:35:33 GMT -5
It's been almost a month since the last comment…..and while there has been some PP success in a few games, it's been even-strength scoring that has us where we are.
We sit 26th (1 space down from the original Nov. 27th post) in the league with a 14.2% PP….with seemingly no solution forthcoming.
Our coaching staff appears clueless in this area of the game.
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Post by blny on Jan 7, 2015 10:59:05 GMT -5
They have a former goon as the power play coach. What's to be expected?
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Post by HabSolute on Jan 7, 2015 11:58:25 GMT -5
It's been almost a month since the last comment…..and while there has been some PP success in a few games, it's been even-strength scoring that has us where we are. We sit 26th (1 space down from the original Nov. 27th post) in the league with a 14.2% PP….with seemingly no solution forthcoming. Our coaching staff appears clueless in this area of the game. Which begs the question: Where would we be with good PP ? Or even a descent one ....
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 7, 2015 12:06:42 GMT -5
They have a former goon as the power play coach. What's to be expected? Lacroix was with the Rangers last year….and the Bolts the 3 seasons prior to that. If I just look at last year, we weren't that far behind the Rangers on the PP. NYR 18.2% (15th) MON 17.2% (19th) We've actually regressed…back to where we were in the disastrous 2011-12 season. With our talent, we should definitely be higher than 14.2%. That said, the Kings won the Stanley Cup last year after ranking 27th at 15.1% in regular season PP. In the playoffs however….it mushroomed to 23.5%….while ours went up slightly from 17.2% to 19.7%. We had a strong PP against the Bruins….8/25…32%. But it completely fizzled against the Rangers. 2/23…8.69%….and was a big reason we lost. I don't know what the solution is…
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Post by blny on Jan 7, 2015 12:14:17 GMT -5
Less perimeter play, greater net presence, and quicker to shoot. No player should have the puck on their stick for more than 2 seconds. One one thousand, two one thousand, then pass or shoot.
Our go to set up, once in is to slowly work it around the perimeter and try to set up a diagonal pass from the point to the opposite wing for a one timer. It's beyond worn out, and because there's no real threat in the crease the opposition cheats up to close that gap.
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 7, 2015 12:21:09 GMT -5
It's been almost a month since the last comment…..and while there has been some PP success in a few games, it's been even-strength scoring that has us where we are. We sit 26th (1 space down from the original Nov. 27th post) in the league with a 14.2% PP….with seemingly no solution forthcoming. Our coaching staff appears clueless in this area of the game. Which begs the question: Where would we be with good PP ? Or even a descent one .... No kidding. In the last 11 games, in which we're 9-2-0, our PP has gone only 5/37…13.5%. Price has been the main reason. Penalty killing, which also relies upon strong goaltending, was a stellar 31/34…91%. When you look at numbers beyond goaltending, it's hard to believe we're where we are.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 7, 2015 12:30:15 GMT -5
I love gallaghers game but even when he's screening and Bishop is on his knees he can see over him. We need someone who can park in front of the net and not b
I'd like to see sekac with patches and galchy on the pp. Sekac is strong on the boards, is a good passer and has a good shot. I'd even try Weise he's had good chemistry with patches.
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 7, 2015 13:23:08 GMT -5
I love gallaghers game but even when he's screening and Bishop is on his knees he can see over him. We need someone who can park in front of the net and not b I'd like to see sekac with patches and galchy on the pp. Sekac is strong on the boards, is a good passer and has a good shot. I'd even try Weise he's had good chemistry with patches. Last night, the non-usage of Sekac on the PP was a criticism on TSN690's post-game show. He got only 15 seconds. In contrast, they said, was the usage of DD. DD had a great game, IMO, at even-strength….I don't know if that had anything to do with his PP time, but MT was back to using him a lot. The most among forwards @ 3:19. He also had DD on late in the game with the extra attacker....as he was called for that bogus penalty. Our PP is pretty hapless, though. With our player personnel, you'd think the coaches would have it figured out by now….or at least be trying new things. Maybe we'll be like the Kings…and wait til the playoffs. Uh…..no….
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Post by Gogie on Jan 7, 2015 13:54:26 GMT -5
We're playing Mohamed Ali hockey until the playoffs - a little rope-a-dope on the PP to fool the opposition and then we'll pound them come playoff time when they don't expect it.
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