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Post by jkr on Apr 12, 2015 6:58:17 GMT -5
Ovechkin wins the Richard trophy - no surprise there. But Jamie Benn with a 4 point game wins the Art Ross with only 87 points. He scores the clinching point with just 10 seconds to go. I noticed that 3 of the top ten scorers (Benn, Seguin, Voracek) are on non playoff teams. I guess scoring goals is overrated.  www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=762741&navid=nhl:topheads |
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Post by Skilly on Apr 12, 2015 13:01:07 GMT -5
I guess Montreal and Chicago will share the Jennings Trophy with 189 goals against.
Montreal had 5 SO goals counted in their total, and Chicago had 3 SO goals in theirs.
Price and Crawford get the award since the back-ups didn't play 25 games. Kinda stupid that the goals against the back-ups count toward this award , yet they aren't eligible.
Pacioretty will share the Plus-Minus Award with Nikita Kucherov +38
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Post by Gogie on Apr 12, 2015 15:32:05 GMT -5
I guess Montreal and Chicago will share the Jennings Trophy with 189 goals against. Montreal had 5 SO goals counted in their total, and Chicago had 3 SO goals in theirs. Price and Crawford get the award since the back-ups didn't play 25 games. Kinda stupid that the goals against the back-ups count toward this award , yet they aren't eligible. Pacioretty will share the Plus-Minus Award with Nikita Kucherov +38 What's really stupid is Montreal's GAA was 2.24 vs. Chicago's 2.27. That seems like a more reasonable basis for determining the Jennings winner. |
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Post by Skilly on Apr 12, 2015 16:16:43 GMT -5
The Jennings is defined as the trophy awarded to the goaltenders of the team (so that's team goals and SO goals should count) that allows the least number of goals .... If they play 25 games.
I have no problem with the goals, or the team, but that 25 game criteria should go ....
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Post by Gogie on Apr 12, 2015 17:00:59 GMT -5
The Jennings is defined as the trophy awarded to the goaltenders of the team (so that's team goals and SO goals should count) that allows the least number of goals .... If they play 25 games. I have no problem with the goals, or the team, but that 25 game criteria should go .... The problem I have is that one team can effectively play more games than another (as much as 7 full games if they played a full 5 minutes OT in every game), give up one more goal and by the NHL's definition lose the Jennings. GAA adjusts for this. We can get really silly and use baseball's batting champion as an example. In 1941 Ted Williams was the American League batting champion because he had a batting average of .406. If they gave the batting title to the player with the most hits Williams would have finished 5th and Cecil Travis (remember him? - not likely) would have been the batting champion with 218 hits (Williams "only" had 185 hits that year). Williams played 2 fewer games than Travis but had significantly fewer opportunities to get hits because he was walked almost 100 times more than Travis. Travis' batting average that year was .359, pretty decent but a mile behind Williams. |
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Post by Skilly on Apr 12, 2015 17:11:53 GMT -5
But the GAA doesn't include the SO goals ... Those are team goals against, that should count under the definition of the Jennings
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Post by Gogie on Apr 12, 2015 17:14:42 GMT -5
But the GAA doesn't include the SO goals ... Those are team goals against, that should count under the definition of the Jennings You and I can agree to disagree on that one. Shoot outs are a joke in my view. The shoot out is simply a skills competition designed to try to increase excitement. It's not part of the "game" and certainly not part of the "team" game. Seems to me the team doesn't participate in the shoot out; rather it's an individual competition, so why should any team stat include shoot outs? |
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Post by blny on Apr 12, 2015 17:40:25 GMT -5
Prior to shoot outs, it was GAA that won it.
Benn had 23 points in his last 12 games to come out of relatively nowhere to win the Art Ross. It's the first time in a full season that the winner had less than 100 points since MSL in 2003-04. It's the first time less than 90 points in a full season won it since Mikita's 87 in 1967-68. Overall, without trying to diminish Benn's achievement, 87 points in an 82 game season winning the Art Ross is pretty sad. It feels like there should be an asterisk after it.
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Post by Skilly on Apr 12, 2015 18:03:08 GMT -5
GAA was never a criteria for the Jennings
From 1946 until the 1980–81 season, the Vezina Trophy was awarded to the goaltender(s) of the National Hockey League (NHL) team allowing the fewest number of goals during the regular season.[2] However, it was recognized that this system often meant the trophy went to the goaltender of the better team rather than the individual and was changed to offer the trophy to the most outstanding goaltender, as voted by the NHL General Managers. The William M. Jennings Trophy was created as a replacement and is awarded to the starting goaltender(s) playing for the team with the fewest goals against.[3]
The Jennings Trophy was donated by the NHL's board of governors and first presented at the conclusion of the 1981–82 season. It is named in honor of the late William M. Jennings, who was a longtime governor and president of the New York Rangers and a builder of ice hockey in the United States.[1] Normally the minimum number of games a goaltender must play to be eligible for the trophy is 25, but for the lockout shortened 1994–95 season, the required minimum was fourteen games.[4]
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Post by Skilly on Apr 12, 2015 18:04:36 GMT -5
I know I have hockey cards from the 1980s, and those sticker books, and it was always goals against .... Now you are going to make me go look to confirm, lol
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Post by Skilly on Apr 12, 2015 18:11:00 GMT -5
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Post by franko on Apr 13, 2015 16:51:05 GMT -5
• And finally, your weekly dose of NHL standings stupidity: The Canadiens and Blackhawks ended up splitting the Jennings Trophy, which is supposed to go to the goaltenders on the team that allows the fewest goals, even though Montreal gave up two fewer goals than Chicago. Why? Because (as we’ve mentioned before) the NHL counts shootout wins and losses as goals for the purpose of the award. The lesson, as always: The shootout is terrible. And we’ve seen the last of it for another year. Bring on the playoffs. McIndoe aka downgoesbrown, who ranks the Habs as his #5 choice to win it all |
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Post by blny on Apr 13, 2015 18:41:31 GMT -5
GAA = goals against avg?
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Post by Skilly on Apr 15, 2015 11:02:36 GMT -5
Yes .. Goals against average was never used to determine the Jennings. It was always fewest goals allowed. Take this year for example. Carey Price has a better GAA than Corey Crawford. However, Crawford has allowed fewer goals. If there were no back-up goalie stats to consider for this trophy, Crawford would get the Jennings because he gave up fewer goals It's pretty dumb to be considering stats to back-ups and calling it a "team" trophy when the back-up goalies can't even get their name on it becuase they have a minimum games requirement. I remember years ago, you'd get O-Pee-Chee cards and they'd have the trophy, the winners, and the total stat ... on the Jennings card it would say Patrick Roy / Brian Hayward "220 goals allowed" (as an example). Next year, one of those cards would have Price and Crawford and say "196 goals allowed" ... that's foolish. Price allowed 130, Crawford allowed 126. It should be for the team, and either the organization gets the trophy (so engrave Montreal Canadiens / Chicago Black Hawks on it) or all goalies who played should get their name on it ... my opinion anyway |
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Post by Gogie on Apr 15, 2015 11:39:12 GMT -5
Yes .. Goals against average was never used to determine the Jennings. It was always fewest goals allowed. Take this year for example. Carey Price has a better GAA than Corey Crawford. However, Crawford has allowed fewer goals. If there were no back-up goalie stats to consider for this trophy, Crawford would get the Jennings because he gave up fewer goals It's pretty dumb to be considering stats to back-ups and calling it a "team" trophy when the back-up goalies can't even get their name on it becuase they have a minimum games requirement. I remember years ago, you'd get O-Pee-Chee cards and they'd have the trophy, the winners, and the total stat ... on the Jennings card it would say Patrick Roy / Brian Hayward "220 goals allowed" (as an example). Next year, one of those cards would have Price and Crawford and say "196 goals allowed" ... that's foolish. Price allowed 130, Crawford allowed 126. It should be for the team, and either the organization gets the trophy (so engrave Montreal Canadiens / Chicago Black Hawks on it) or all goalies who played should get their name on it ... my opinion anyway I agree with you 100% on this. It's really a total team effort that's involved in preventing goals scored. To use total goals given up as any kind of a measure for individual (i.e., goal tender) performance is dumb. Too many other factors involved in preventing goals. It may start in net but the defensive ability of the skaters has a lot to do with the outcome as well. You could even argue that good offensive players prevent goals by maintaining puck possession. If you want to put individual names on the Jennings trophy, put every player who suited up a minimum number of games for the team on the trophy (kind of like the Stanley Cup). Otherwise, put the team name only on the trophy. |
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Post by franko on Apr 15, 2015 11:43:03 GMT -5
To use total goals given up as any kind of a measure for individual (i.e., goal tender) performance is dumb. especially if you include SO goals |
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Post by blny on Apr 15, 2015 16:16:36 GMT -5
I recall in all my O-Pee-Chee sticker books from back in the day, and on hockey cards, that the Jennings award showed the goalies and their GAA. Same for Score, Upper Deck, etc. Either way ...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 11:24:25 GMT -5
Should be the best team defence award, and I'm sure that that is how players look at it. Probably one of the most boring trophies in sports history.
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Post by Skilly on Apr 21, 2015 18:26:01 GMT -5
LADY BING FINALISTS
Pavel Datsyuk
Jiri Hudler
Anze Kopitar
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Post by Skilly on Apr 22, 2015 18:44:08 GMT -5
SELKE FINALISTS
Patrice Bergeron
Anze Kopitar
Jonathan Toews
Same three as last year. LA Kings must have had some good year, huh? Kopitar nominated for 2 awards. And Bergeron was pretty much invisible all year.
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