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Post by blny on May 11, 2015 16:52:21 GMT -5
Well, NFL has handed out the penalties to the Patroits for deflating footballs in the AFC championship game.
Brady gets 4 games.
Team is fined $1 million.
Team loses first round pick in 2016 and 4th round pick in 2017.
I get the feeling that part of the 4 games is a result of Brady not relinquishing his phone data in the hopes that it would have implicated Bellichek (who the NFL was really after).
While I fully understand the early negative reaction to the amount of the penalty, especially in relation to what Ray Rice ended up with for beating his fiance, I have no problem with the judgement. This organization has a clear pattern of circumventing the rules and the spirit of the game whenever and wherever it suits them.
I'm sure there will be an appeal launched by Brady and the club.
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Post by Polarice on May 11, 2015 16:59:01 GMT -5
They were saying last night that the Pats lawyers will tear apart the report if there is any suspensions or fines during the appeal. They were saying the thing is full of holes and never directly blamed Brady.
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Post by franko on May 11, 2015 18:33:23 GMT -5
can't prove Brady knew but "he should have", therefore he is guilty.
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Post by Skilly on May 11, 2015 20:26:46 GMT -5
This isn't court ... The standard of care in the NFL player contract is
1) was is more probable than not.
2) players must fully co-operate in League investigations.
Those terms are in the players contracts. It doesn't matter what lawyers they get involved. Brady did not co-operate, that was enough to suspend him.
As for "more probable than not", that's the exact reason they suspended Greg Hardy for 10 games. Hardy's girlfriend retracted her statements, the courts couldn't find her when Hardy appealed, which in Carolina triggers an automatic jury trial. There were all sorts of holes in the girlfriend's story. But the league reviewed the evidence and deemed, regardless of Hardy's probable legal avenues, and technicalities, it was more probable than not that he did some of the things he was accused of ...
Brady got of light ....real light.
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Post by Skilly on May 11, 2015 20:27:52 GMT -5
can't prove Brady knew but "he should have", therefore he is guilty. This was the reasoning Sean Payton was suspended for a full year ...they could not prove he knew about BountyGate, but the league deemed, he should have known. |
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Post by BadCompany on May 12, 2015 7:09:24 GMT -5
I think the suspension will be appealed, and then reduced. The fine and the draft picks will probably stay, but I don't see Brady missing more than two games, even if he should.
People keep saying that "a deflated ball made no difference in a 38 point game" but clearly this wasn't the ONLY game that this was done. How about the game before, when the Patriots beat the Ravens with touchdown scored late in the 4th quarter? Did cheating give them the extra edge that they needed to win THAT game? We're talking about a four point difference in THAT game. One score, in other words. If cheating gives you an edge, and you win by (almost) the slightest of edges, then could you not say that you won because you cheated? Is it that big of a leap?
Bah. I hate the Cheatriots.
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Post by blny on May 12, 2015 7:55:35 GMT -5
If anything comes of this, my hope would be that the NFL changes its policy on how it distributes the game balls on game day. Teams shouldn't get them 4 hours before a game. Essentially, 30 balls arrive for game day and each team gets 15 of them 4 hours before kick off. At the time they're given to the teams, they're inflated to league specs. However, there's 4 hours for the teams to meddle. Should be a cart with all the balls, and league officials just rotate in and out, and teams shouldn't get them before hand. As the guys from PTI were saying, imagine if Gaylord Perry got the balls he was going to pitch with that day four hours before first pitch. Crazy.
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Post by jkr on May 12, 2015 9:11:59 GMT -5
If anything comes of this, my hope would be that the NFL changes its policy on how it distributes the game balls on game day. Teams shouldn't get them 4 hours before a game. Essentially, 30 balls arrive for game day and each team gets 15 of them 4 hours before kick off. At the time they're given to the teams, they're inflated to league specs. However, there's 4 hours for the teams to meddle. Should be a cart with all the balls, and league officials just rotate in and out, and teams shouldn't get them before hand. As the guys from PTI were saying, imagine if Gaylord Perry got the balls he was going to pitch with that day four hours before first pitch. Crazy. If the balls have to be the same for each team why divide the pool into two? Just have one pool of footballs for both teams. |
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Post by blny on May 12, 2015 9:22:24 GMT -5
If anything comes of this, my hope would be that the NFL changes its policy on how it distributes the game balls on game day. Teams shouldn't get them 4 hours before a game. Essentially, 30 balls arrive for game day and each team gets 15 of them 4 hours before kick off. At the time they're given to the teams, they're inflated to league specs. However, there's 4 hours for the teams to meddle. Should be a cart with all the balls, and league officials just rotate in and out, and teams shouldn't get them before hand. As the guys from PTI were saying, imagine if Gaylord Perry got the balls he was going to pitch with that day four hours before first pitch. Crazy. If the balls have to be the same for each team why divide the pool into two? Just have one pool of footballs for both teams. Exactly. Ball boys that rotate them in and out just pull from the bin. |
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Post by franko on May 12, 2015 9:52:30 GMT -5
If the balls have to be the same for each team why divide the pool into two? Just have one pool of footballs for both teams. Exactly. Ball boys that rotate them in and out just pull from the bin. used to be like that. then some QBs said that they wanted to play with their own balls (hold it . . . I mean . . . ) anyway, QBs -- in particular Brady and Peyton Manning -- said that they felt more comfortable if they could use the footballs that they were used to (something like that) and the NFL changed its policy to allow it. think they regret it? |
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Post by Skilly on May 12, 2015 10:31:24 GMT -5
I think the suspension will be appealed, and then reduced. The fine and the draft picks will probably stay, but I don't see Brady missing more than two games, even if he should. People keep saying that "a deflated ball made no difference in a 38 point game" but clearly this wasn't the ONLY game that this was done. How about the game before, when the Patriots beat the Ravens with touchdown scored late in the 4th quarter? Did cheating give them the extra edge that they needed to win THAT game? We're talking about a four point difference in THAT game. One score, in other words. If cheating gives you an edge, and you win by (almost) the slightest of edges, then could you not say that you won because you cheated? Is it that big of a leap? Bah. I hate the Cheatriots. The league actually did investigate the Patriots for the Ravens game. Jim Harbough didn't kick up a stink about it, because it was determined that the kicking balls were deflated, and both teams used the same kicking balls. When asked about the team balls, I believe he responded with something like, we didn't get one of those in our possession so I can't comment on that, but he thought it was a non-issue. However, I agree with you. Not just about the Ravens game, but how many times has he done this in the past? I'm sure this isn't the first time he did this, the texts read as if these guys were very used to this sort of thing. Brady is willing to do whatever it takes to write his legacy as the only 5-time SuperBowl winning QB. It's too bad that the League can't take away Superboel victories, because this punishment certainly screams "attempting to cheat, and cheating is ok" |
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Post by Skilly on May 12, 2015 10:39:44 GMT -5
Here is a list of all the draft picks that have been taken away from NFL teams since 1980:
2015 New England Patriots
Transgression: Deflating footballs used in the AFC Championship Game
Forfeited pick(s): 2016 first-rounder, 2017 fourth-rounder
2015 Atlanta Falcons
Transgression: Pumping artificial noise into their stadium
Forfeited pick(s): 2016 fifth-rounder
2012 New Orleans Saints
Transgression: Paying bonuses, or "bounties," for injuring opposing players
Forfeited pick(s): 2012 second-rounder, 2013 second-rounder
2011 Detroit Lions
Transgression: Tampering with safety Jarrad Page, who was under contract with the Kansas City Chiefs
Forfeited pick(s): 2011 seventh-rounder plus swap of picks with Chiefs in the fifth round
2008 San Francisco 49ers
Transgression: Tampering with linebacker Lance Briggs, who was under contract with the Chicago Bears
Forfeited pick(s): 2008 fifth-rounder plus swap of picks with Bears in third round
2008 New England Patriots
Transgression: Videotaping New York Jets coaches' signals on the sideline during a 2007 game
Forfeited pick(s): 2008 first-rounder
2002 Denver Broncos
Transgression: Circumventing the salary cap between 1996-98
Forfeited pick(s): 2005 3rd-rounder, 2002 3rd-rounder
2001 San Francisco 49ers
Transgression: Violating salary cap rules
Forfeited pick(s): 2001 5th-rounder, 2002 3rd-rounder
2001 Pittsburgh Steelers
Transgression: Exceeding the 1998 salary cap
Forfeited pick(s): 2001 third-rounder
1986 New England Patriots
Transgression: Illegal use of injured-reserve list
Forfeited pick(s): 1986 third-rounder
1981 Denver Broncos
Transgression: Contract violations involving defensive back Bill Thompson
Forfeited pick(s): 1981 third-rounder
1981 Oakland Raiders
Transgression: Illegally sequestering players in 1978
Forfeited pick(s): 1981 fifth-rounder
1980 Philadelphia Eagles
Transgression: Holding an illegal tryout
Forfeited pick(s): 1980 third-rounder
1980 Oakland Raiders
Transgression: Evasion of player limit
Forfeited pick(s): 1980 fourth-rounder
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Post by CentreHice on May 12, 2015 12:19:34 GMT -5
Don't know if it's been mentioned here, yet…(I'm sure it has somewhere on the board)….but I've heard commentators saying that the Patriots' fumble numbers are also far below those of other teams.
The argument being that it's easier to hang on to a "softer" ball.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 12, 2015 13:17:40 GMT -5
can't prove Brady knew but "he should have", therefore he is guilty. You think he would have known just as soon as he wrapped his hand around the ball ... his centre would have known too ... he grips the ball tighter than most ... the receivers and running backs, or anyone who cradled the ball would have known something was different ... that makes Brady the fall guy, I reckon ... why the officials never picked up on it is beyond me ... Cheers. |
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Post by Skilly on Jul 28, 2015 18:55:10 GMT -5
So the Roger Goddell upheld the four game suspension and now Deflategate is heading to Federal Court .... .... In other news, the Patriots signed 37 yr old undrafted free agent QB Tim Brody today.  |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 28, 2015 21:08:46 GMT -5
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 28, 2015 21:36:30 GMT -5
... couldn't resist this one ... |
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Post by blny on Jul 29, 2015 5:56:06 GMT -5
I have no doubt that if it was any other team, the penalty would have been less severe. To that end, "Suck it Patriots!"
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Post by Skilly on Jul 29, 2015 6:50:30 GMT -5
I have no doubt that if it was any other team, the penalty would have been less severe. To that end, "Suck it Patriots!" I agree on the team penalty ... they are repeat offenders afterall. But I think the way Goddell explained Brady's suspension, he would have given the same penalty to anyone. He compared the attempt at gaining an unfair advantage, to that of a PED user. The suspension for a first time PED offender is 4 games. Why do player's use PEDs? To attempt to gain an unfair advantage. Then there is the destruction of the phone. Why destroy it? At the very least it is obstruction of the NFL's investigation, which is 2 games, and at its worst it is an admission of guilt. Plus, I heard one report, that the NFL and Brady came to a settlement where the suspension was going to be 2-3 games, but Brady wanted the documents sealed. Goddell did not agree. If true, why did Brady want the documents sealed? Either there is something in there he does not want to get out, or he does not want to publically admit guilt. So if Brady hasn't co-operated at any point in this investigation, why would Goddell consider reducing the suspension? I think Goddell would treat any player like that. I have to laugh though at some people comparing this to Greg Hardy. You hear on the talk radio "How is what Brady done comparable to what Hardy done"? They are leaving out one word there though ... allegedly. What Hardy "allegedly" done. Hardy went to court in North Carolina, where in the bench trial he wasn't allowed to question the evidence, or witnesses. Appealing the judge verdict, was an automatic jury trial where he would be allowed to cross-examine. There were many inconsistencies in the accuser first story and her bench trial story. But the accuser disappeared, and failed to respond to multiple subpoenas. I'm not claiming Hardy is an angel, and I'm sure he is certainly guilty of something in all this. But he was never convicted, and if he was convicted, it (rightly or wrongly) is considered a misdemeanor in North Carolina. The same as public intoxication. The NFL suspended him based on photos the Prosecutors in North Carolina let the NFL see. But Hardy co-operated. And he came to a settlement with his accuser to stave off civil litigation, which is somewhat an admission of guilt without doing so like Brady did with his phone ... ... I guess privacy laws prevent the NFL from getting the phone company to produce his texts, etc ... So if this is now going to Federal Court, and Brady has to testify, will he commit perjury, if asked point blank about the phone and the texts? Strange thing about texts, they are also on the receiver's phone. If Brady had to co-operate from the start, I doubt he gets suspended. He probably gets a huge fine and all is well. But lying, and conniving, and obstructing the investigators. That goes to the heart of the league's integrity, and is most certainly ground for a big suspension. As convoluted as other comparable suspensions may be ... |
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Post by franko on Sept 3, 2015 15:36:04 GMT -5
0 games.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 3, 2015 15:57:37 GMT -5
The NFL has been taking a few hits over the last few seasons ... this is just another bad drama in a series of bad dramas ... #farce ... Cheers. |
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Post by CentreHice on Sept 8, 2015 21:43:00 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Sept 9, 2015 1:56:38 GMT -5
I read much of that article on Twitter. Geeze it was long. The gist of it as I saw it was that Goodell did indeed cover up a lot of the Spygate stuff, feeling it would hurt the reputation of the NFL with its fans. I believe he thought he was doing the right thing (obviously not, because if it covers up the truth, it distorts reality). The upshot was that the next time anyone was caught cheating, Goodell would come down hard on them, which is what he tried to do with Deflategate. That explains why the punishment seemed harsh.
Belichek is a cheater, no other way to look at it, and a big cheater. He (Belicheck) sees it as stretching the rules, but really, the whole League was told not to tape anything from the sidelines and the Pats basically ignored it and taped coaches sending in (mostly defensive) signals. It kinda makes you wonder just how good a quarterback Brady truly is. The Eagles (or Panthers) defense came off the field at half time in one Super Bowl, feeling that the Patriots were in their defensive huddle, they knew exactly what sets they were using. Nice to know what the defense will be doing if you're the quarterback. I have not sympathy for the Patriots in the least. And I, like many others, feel there should be a huge asterisk besides their Super Bowl wins. Preferably, like the Tour de France, their Bowl victories should be taken away, but that will never happen. They're surely tainted.
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Post by CentreHice on Sept 9, 2015 13:53:42 GMT -5
The 2005 Eagles…. they perhaps have the biggest beef. ArticleThe Eagles' 2005 Super Bowl loss to the New England Patriots might the most crushing defeat in franchise history, because it denied the Eagles their first title.
This latest news might make that loss even more devastating.
In a piece for ESPN, detailing just how far the Patriots went to tape the signals of other teams during Spygate, one former Eagles staffer is quoted as saying he believes head coach Bill Belichick robbed the city of a Super Bowl.
From ESPN:
When Spygate broke, some of the Eagles now believed they had an answer for a question that had vexed them since they lost to the Patriots 24-21 in Super Bowl XXXIX: How did New England seem completely prepared for the rarely used dime defense the Eagles deployed in the second quarter, scoring touchdowns on three of four drives? The Eagles suspected that either practices were filmed or a playbook was stolen. "To this day, some believe that we were robbed by the Patriots not playing by the rules ... and knowing our game plan," a former Eagles football operations staffer says. |
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Post by franko on Sept 9, 2015 15:42:20 GMT -5
NOT a Pat apologist. but "belief" "perhaps" "we think".
yes, probably . . . but just not enough proof.
asterisks should be part of the record book, though.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 10, 2015 0:13:06 GMT -5
One is still puzzled how a player can fumble 'x' number of times per season throughout his career and that number suddenly drops when they don a Patriots uniform. There is a lot of smoke around Belichek.
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Post by franko on Sept 10, 2015 5:57:22 GMT -5
One is still puzzled how a player can fumble 'x' number of times per season throughout his career and that number suddenly drops when they don a Patriots uniform. There is a lot of smoke around Belichek. I guess he's just a great coach, 17  |
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Post by Polarice on Sept 10, 2015 9:06:51 GMT -5
Apparently, Brady offered to take a 1 game suspension for interfering with their investigation. He knew who did deflate the balls, but he wouldn't turn the kid in.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 10, 2015 10:39:02 GMT -5
One is still puzzled how a player can fumble 'x' number of times per season throughout his career and that number suddenly drops when they don a Patriots uniform. There is a lot of smoke around Belichek. I guess he's just a great coach, 17 Could be a Marlboro man |
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Post by blny on Sept 21, 2015 7:10:16 GMT -5
First game of the season, and the Pats at it again. Steelers sideline wasn't able to communicate through supplied headsets for the entire first half. All the could do was listen to the Patriots radio broadcast.
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