|
|
Post by Lord Bebop on Jun 30, 2015 16:11:34 GMT -5
Bob McKenzie @tsnbobmckenzie · 22s22 seconds ago
Brandon Saad traded to CBJ.
|
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 30, 2015 16:15:34 GMT -5
That was unexpected ... I thought he would have been part of their plans ...
Cheers.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lord Bebop on Jun 30, 2015 16:17:22 GMT -5
Aaron Portzline @aportzline 2m2 minutes ago
#CBJ acquire Brandon Saad and two prospects from #Blackhawks for Anisimov, Dano, Morin, Troop and a 4th rd pick in 2016
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jun 30, 2015 16:20:48 GMT -5
Wow. Anisimov was overseas too. Hawks knew they weren't going to be able to sign Saad and were going to lose him to an offer sheet. They got a lot for him.
|
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 30, 2015 16:20:49 GMT -5
Chicago Blackhawks @nhlblackhawks 24s24 seconds ago
Blackhawks acquire Anisimov, Dano, Morin and Tropp and a 4th-rounder from CBJ for Brandon Saad, Paliotta, Broadhurst
|
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Jun 30, 2015 16:26:08 GMT -5
I wonder if they tried trading him at the draft.....you you think they could have done better.
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jun 30, 2015 16:34:55 GMT -5
Not overly familiar with the secondary pieces, but Morin is a former Hawks prospect. Dano is well thought of by those that know him. A year younger than Saad, similar player, put up 21 points in 35 games for Columbus. Anisimov is really talented. Chicago having to give up two prospects shows what happens with your RFAs. Sign them or risk losing them.
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jun 30, 2015 16:44:26 GMT -5
McKenzie reporting, despite denial from Saad's agent, that player was seeking 6 year deal for $6.5 million a year. Saad's a good young player, who's benefited from playing with Kane and Toews, et al. He's not a $6.5 million player yet.
|
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 30, 2015 17:07:41 GMT -5
Wonder if Marc Bergevin asked about him ...
Cheers.
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jun 30, 2015 17:12:33 GMT -5
Wonder if Marc Bergevin asked about him ... Cheers. He'd have hung up quickly after finding out the player wanted $6.5 million a season. |
|
|
|
Post by Lord Bebop on Jun 30, 2015 17:15:38 GMT -5
Y Just not fair...how many powerforwards can a team have lol..Saad, Foligno,Dubinsky, Jenner, Hartnell, Clarkson, Bourque and Rychel Really like their team if they can get 1or2 quality defenseman.... Built similar to the ducks team except they might be bigger then the ducks Watch out for these guys next year in playoffs |
|
|
|
Post by HFTO on Jun 30, 2015 18:43:51 GMT -5
.... Seems we are told these players aren't available but other teams find ways to get the type of players we are sorely lacking.
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jun 30, 2015 19:02:32 GMT -5
.... Seems we are told these players aren't available but other teams find ways to get the type of players we are sorely lacking. Columbus doesn't have him yet. Gotta sign him before noon. Then, they have to live with a guy who's had a nice start to his career but not yet hit 25 goals. Oh yeah, he's gotten to play with Toews and Kane too. Galchenyuk had 20 goals this year. Three less than Saad. If someone offered him the apparent $6.5 million deal that Saad is looking for it really hamstrings us. That salary, if unmatched would net the 'losing' team a first, second, and third. I like Saad. I don't like Saad at $6.5 million a year. If the Jackets successfully sign him to that, they'll have a fine forward core and one of the worst defensive units in the league. |
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jun 30, 2015 20:11:12 GMT -5
Wonder if Marc Bergevin asked about him ... Cheers. My first thought when I saw this pop up on my phone was ,..., Bergevin was talking to Chicago all week about Sharp and Versteeg, and not Saad? Because we could afford what Saad went for. Anisimov is good, but he isn't anything special. He is 27, never cracked 20 goals and gets you about 35-40 points. He is slightly better than Lars Eller, and Lars plays third line checking minutes. If he wanted 6.5 million. I can see pausing for a moment for a sober second thought. But Bergevin could afford it, ...., I'm not sure if Saad was the answer, I'm not going to hang Bergevin for not getting him, but as was said, other teams seem to find ways to get their missing piece, we sit in the pumpkin patch. |
|
|
|
Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 30, 2015 20:11:30 GMT -5
I'm confused. First Dougie Hamilton and now Brandon Saad. TSN made a comment in their piece about the changing NHL and that 22-year olds are now demanding long-term deals and bypassing the "bridge contract" that the Habs and others have used so frequently.
But I don't get why that's happening. The player still is an RFA for another 5 years so the team still has the leverage. They can qualify the player and negotiate a bridge deal or sign them to a Pacioretty deal or whatever.
Are the teams worried about offer sheets? Those are still pretty rare and expensive for the acquiring teams. I know you can end up paying big later like the Habs did with Subban, but there is still value in putting off the big money deal until you have a better cap situation.
But that's 2 deals where emerging players like Saad and Hamilton got dealt and one of the reasons seems to be salary demands.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jun 30, 2015 20:11:55 GMT -5
They can 'ask' for whatever they want. Is some other team going to submit an offer sheet at 6.5M knowing he played with Kane and Toews? Unless there really is a crazy GM out there, and Kekalainen is not one of them, he isn't getting that amount. His agent denied they were asking for that, but it might have been an opening salvo. An offer sheet in that range requires two first rounders, so that would probably replace what Columbus paid for him. Anisimov is another .5 ppg player. It seems that's sort of a standard for an NHL regular these days. Dano is a late first rounder Tropp is a marginal 4th line NHL'r. So in summary the deal is Chicago getting a let's call him solid NHL'r, (Anisimov), a decent prospect, (Dano) and fillers for Saad (uncertain upside given his previous playing mates, but a decent player with more upside), a 22 year old NCAA prospect, and another filler (Broadhurst).
If you distill it away, it looks like Saad for Anisimov and Dano. Is Chicago going to get some CAP relief? Not much as Anisimov has a $3.3M cap hit and Dano will be just shy of $1M if he's on the typical entry level contract. So say, $4M total. It protects from an offer sheet and maybe that's what Bowman was worried about.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jun 30, 2015 20:14:25 GMT -5
Are the teams worried about offer sheets? Those are still pretty rare and expensive for the acquiring teams. I know you can end up paying big later like the Habs did with Subban, but there is still value in putting off the big money deal until you have a better cap situation. Yeah, I think that's it, BH. There's been more talk about offer sheets lately and if you target the right ones, in the right price range (below $5.4M, you can get away with a first and 3rd rounder. Well worth it if it's a guy like Saad or Hamilton who are already proven. I think Boston is going to regret losing Hamilton, but they were forced into it. Doug just didn't want to stay there. |
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jun 30, 2015 20:17:51 GMT -5
Wonder if Marc Bergevin asked about him ... Cheers. My first thought when I saw this pop up on my phone was ,..., Bergevin was talking to Chicago all week about Sharp and Versteeg, and not Saad? Because we could afford what Saad went for. Anisimov is good, but he isn't anything special. He is 27, never cracked 20 goals and gets you about 35-40 points. He is slightly better than Lars Eller, and Lars plays third line checking minutes. If he wanted 6.5 million. I can see pausing for a moment for a sober second thought. But Bergevin could afford it, ...., I'm not sure if Saad was the answer, I'm not going to hang Bergevin for not getting him, but as was said, other teams seem to find ways to get their missing piece, we sit in the pumpkin patch. AS an example, and feel free to correct me if my valuations are wrong, this would equate to us trading Eller, Scherbak, Dietz and Flynn. Bowman wouldn't take DD, even though DD may get more points than Eller, but I don't think the combination I've shown is off by much. |
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jun 30, 2015 20:24:38 GMT -5
I think Scherbak is way better than Dano, .... , but I think your deal would have gotten it done. I wouldn't have parted with Scherbak, McCarron maybe.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jun 30, 2015 20:34:34 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jun 30, 2015 20:45:28 GMT -5
Dano's a promising player. Only 20, and his adv stats numbers are really good. In fact, everyone who played with him saw significant improvement in their own stats.
Re the pieces that went for Saad, and 'teams getting the pieces they're missing', people need to take a look at the Jackets defense. It's weak. Tyutin, Johnson, Savard, Murray, Connauton, Goloubef. That's their top 7. I suspect they'll also look at the UFA market for D tomorrow, but they won't be able to make it deep. Their forward group is similar to the Jets in that there's quite a bit of beef. However, when you look closely it isn't perfect. Clarkson will play in their top 6. Foligno got a huge contract after a career year. Can he keep that up? He was never even remotely close to it before. Johansen has a ton of skill, but a questionable attitude and played hardball negotiating. When his current deal is up, I see a hold out. Given how much they have committed to Dubinsky, Foligno, Hartnell, Clarkson, how much they're going to give Saad, he'll be hard to sign. Their forwards play hard, but are any truly elite?
I see them giving up a lot of goals, despite BOBROVSKY! - who's paid over $7 million a year.
In the end, I don't think it's all roses for Columbus, and I think they're far removed from Saad being 'the last piece'.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jun 30, 2015 21:24:12 GMT -5
They may regret simply not keeping Dano.
|
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jun 30, 2015 21:54:59 GMT -5
They may regret simply not keeping Dano. this. young, cheap, decent. |
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 30, 2015 22:36:36 GMT -5
Dano is the coup for CHI, and not forking over $6.5M a year for Saad. Tough to lose a talented 22 year old power forward though.
Really liked Dano at the WJC and hoped the Habs would draft him. He went earlier than expected in his year.
The trade for Clarkson's salary doesn't look so good. That would be better served spent on the blue line methinks.
|
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jul 1, 2015 5:18:01 GMT -5
Dano's a promising player. Only 20, and his adv stats numbers are really good. In fact, everyone who played with him saw significant improvement in their own stats. Re the pieces that went for Saad, and 'teams getting the pieces they're missing', people need to take a look at the Jackets defense. It's weak. Tyutin, Johnson, Savard, Murray, Connauton, Goloubef. That's their top 7. I suspect they'll also look at the UFA market for D tomorrow, but they won't be able to make it deep. Their forward group is similar to the Jets in that there's quite a bit of beef. However, when you look closely it isn't perfect. Clarkson will play in their top 6. Foligno got a huge contract after a career year. Can he keep that up? He was never even remotely close to it before. Johansen has a ton of skill, but a questionable attitude and played hardball negotiating. When his current deal is up, I see a hold out. Given how much they have committed to Dubinsky, Foligno, Hartnell, Clarkson, how much they're going to give Saad, he'll be hard to sign. Their forwards play hard, but are any truly elite? I see them giving up a lot of goals, despite BOBROVSKY! - who's paid over $7 million a year. In the end, I don't think it's all roses for Columbus, and I think they're far removed from Saad being 'the last piece'. Ok, let's not call Saad a missing piece, but after all you detailed above, how can you not call him a missing piece if the team's forwards are in as bad shape with huge question marks .... How about other GMs make deals without touching their core. |
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Jul 1, 2015 7:44:38 GMT -5
I'm confused. First Dougie Hamilton and now Brandon Saad. TSN made a comment in their piece about the changing NHL and that 22-year olds are now demanding long-term deals and bypassing the "bridge contract" that the Habs and others have used so frequently. But I don't get why that's happening. The player still is an RFA for another 5 years so the team still has the leverage. They can qualify the player and negotiate a bridge deal or sign them to a Pacioretty deal or whatever. Are the teams worried about offer sheets? Those are still pretty rare and expensive for the acquiring teams. I know you can end up paying big later like the Habs did with Subban, but there is still value in putting off the big money deal until you have a better cap situation. But that's 2 deals where emerging players like Saad and Hamilton got dealt and one of the reasons seems to be salary demands. Confuses me too. The team holds most of the cards with a RFA. You can play hardball with a player without ruining the relationship. The Habs did it with Subban when he signed the bridge deal. As for offer sheets - I don't know why teams are afraid of them. It seems to be an unspoken agreement among teams - they just don't do it. |
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Jul 1, 2015 8:12:32 GMT -5
I'm confused. First Dougie Hamilton and now Brandon Saad. TSN made a comment in their piece about the changing NHL and that 22-year olds are now demanding long-term deals and bypassing the "bridge contract" that the Habs and others have used so frequently. But I don't get why that's happening. The player still is an RFA for another 5 years so the team still has the leverage. They can qualify the player and negotiate a bridge deal or sign them to a Pacioretty deal or whatever. Are the teams worried about offer sheets? Those are still pretty rare and expensive for the acquiring teams. I know you can end up paying big later like the Habs did with Subban, but there is still value in putting off the big money deal until you have a better cap situation. But that's 2 deals where emerging players like Saad and Hamilton got dealt and one of the reasons seems to be salary demands. Confuses me too. The team holds most of the cards with a RFA. You can play hardball with a player without ruining the relationship. The Habs did it with Subban when he signed the bridge deal. As for offer sheets - I don't know why teams are afraid of them. It seems to be an unspoken agreement among teams - they just don't do it. I think they don't do it because it rarely works and on the rare occasion that it does it usually ends up hurting the buying team (Oilers). Consider Montreal and Galchenyuk; would we let him go for a first and third round pick? Not likely. We'd almost certainly match and then try to deal Emelin or something. So all the offering team has done is create an enemy AND drive up the price for the next RFA, which may be their own. They didnt get the player, they are not a better team and nothing was accomplished. So why do it? What is the benefit? |
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 1, 2015 8:50:30 GMT -5
Look at some of these young guys that are now driving contracts up right out of their entry level deals. ROR is still doing it, Hamilton and Saad good moved, and the Oil routinely throw big deals to their young guns sans bridge deal (Yakupov broke that trend). Add in the threat of offer sheets, whether real or perceived, and you have prices sky rocketing for certain young guns. All before they are even RFAs with arbitration rights. The RFA years were supposed to favour the team in terms of bargaining power, but that has shifted in a few high profile cases.
It will be a bit of an ongoing spiral. Top teams will spend to the cap, but get tighter when their young stars drive the prices up. Bottom feeders with tons of cap space can see an easier fix to their woes through greater use of offer sheets or trading with teams with cap trouble. Another GM challenge in this cap world that does not look to be going away anytime soon.
The reasonable deals that OTT reached with Stone and SoccerSkates and LA did with Toffoli offer some hope, but we shall see how this continues to influence surprising personnel decisions.
p.s. Berg, get the Chucky deal done this morning and avoid this mess please.
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jul 1, 2015 9:12:58 GMT -5
Ok, let's not call Saad a missing piece, but after all you detailed above, how can you not call him a missing piece if the team's forwards are in as bad shape with huge question marks .... How about other GMs make deals without touching their core. Because he's never been a ppg player or scored 30, despite playing with two of the most clutch players in the league. He's not going to have them to fall back on. Yes, he's still young. However, there's nothing to suggest that without them he can still get a lot better. Columbus is banking that he does. |
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jul 1, 2015 10:38:19 GMT -5
Ok, let's not call Saad a missing piece, but after all you detailed above, how can you not call him a missing piece if the team's forwards are in as bad shape with huge question marks .... How about other GMs make deals without touching their core. Because he's never been a ppg player or scored 30, despite playing with two of the most clutch players in the league. He's not going to have them to fall back on. Yes, he's still young. However, there's nothing to suggest that without them he can still get a lot better. Columbus is banking that he does. I don't buy that argument. Sorry, we will have to agree to disagree on that. That argument is the basis of EVERY trade. Every GM is banking that an acquired player can either perform the same or better with new linemates. Player A played great with Player B and C , will he with our guys? Player A played so-so with Player B and C, will he perform better with our guys? There's nothing to suggest any young player can perform outside his current situation, since he has never been outside it before. You are also talking about a 22 yr old player, who never played exclusively with Kane and Toews his entire three years, yes he played a fair bit with one or the other, but we keep saying our players enter their prime around 24-26, why not other teams players? Toews never scored a ppg this year, so we expect his sparingly linemates to do it? And even if he played every minute Toews did, is he to outscore Toews? Are we hard on Galchenyuk for not getting more ppg than Plekanec? I'm not advocating that we should have gotten Saad, just that these type of trades never fall in our GMs lap. Some will point to Petry, but I think he is being grossly over rated now with us. I hope I'm wrong, but we will find out over the course of a full season. I've always wondered why Edmonton, a team that is weak on defense, traded away a top 4 d-man (some are calling him a top 2!) for peanuts. Saad - Plekanec - Galchenyuk would have been some second line though! .... Assuming our first line is Pacioretty - DD - Gallagher, who is our other second line winger? |
|
