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Post by blny on Jul 23, 2015 9:23:37 GMT -5
...http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=775458
Lou Lamoriello. Hahahahahahahahaha
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 23, 2015 9:44:47 GMT -5
Very unusual move IMHO. Seems to be more of a GM from a past era and also one who was used to working with a cash strapped budget. Considering the hires at the Assistant GM level, this is a definite different direction for Shanny.
Lou, to the promised land we go!! lmao
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Post by blny on Jul 23, 2015 9:52:03 GMT -5
If he interviewed it was awfully covert, like at the draft. From the Leafs POV, I just don't get it. He hasn't built a winner in years. His pro and amateur scouting, once a strength, have become a weakness. Is he there more to mentor Dubas or something?
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Post by Polarice on Jul 23, 2015 10:11:09 GMT -5
LOL, he's been awful since the cap era.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 10:27:54 GMT -5
Which means he'll be head coach before the end of the season.
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Post by franko on Jul 23, 2015 10:41:48 GMT -5
I guess it's official: the Leafs are actively trying to go over 50 years between Cup appearances, let alone winning one.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 23, 2015 10:42:53 GMT -5
Which means he'll be head coach before the end of the season. You beat me to it, dude ... I'd like to see him try and replace Babcock behind the bench ... even if he doesn't, there's some strong egos in Toronto now ... Shanahan, Lamoriello and Babcock ... Cheers. |
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Post by Polarice on Jul 23, 2015 10:45:29 GMT -5
Which means he'll be head coach before the end of the season. You beat me to it, dude ... I'd like to see him try and replace Babcock behind the bench ... even if he doesn't, there's some strong egos in Toronto now ... Shanahan, Lamoriello and Babcock ... Cheers. Yep it can't go well with those 3 in one room!! |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 23, 2015 11:10:09 GMT -5
Wow. Weird. Typical I guess. There's only one rationale for this that I can see. There are probably a number of duties a GM has to oversee that are logistical in nature and don't involve having any real decision making power. So the Leafs hire a guy who's probably happy enough to complete those duties and doesn't care if 3 other guys are actually guiding the team. Put in some time, collect a pay cheque and handle the press. Wasn't that a strength of Lou's?  I knew they were going to have a tough time finding anyone to take on the GM role as MLSE has defined it in Toronto, but seriously, WTF are they thinking? Can Lou really remain hands off? Won't they ask for his opinion at some point, on some issue? To quote Gary Larson, "Trouble Brewing". |
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Post by jkr on Jul 23, 2015 11:47:00 GMT -5
Would have been a good move about 15 years ago. Who's next in - Brodeur?
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Post by Polarice on Jul 23, 2015 12:19:25 GMT -5
They are hoping his presence will convince Phaneuf to retire and move to Russia as well.
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Post by franko on Jul 23, 2015 13:00:20 GMT -5
the Leafs have given themselves room for another five years of ineptness . . . while raising ticket prices.
maybe that's what's behind the RBC "#someday" thing.
someday . . . the Leafs will be worth watching.
nahhhh
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Post by frozone on Jul 23, 2015 15:49:19 GMT -5
I've been patiently waiting for some good news. I thought it would come in the form of Galchenyuk signing a nice new deal.
But I think this news makes me happier.
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Post by Douper on Jul 23, 2015 16:21:39 GMT -5
So all they are missing now is 2 hall of fame defenseman, a couple of great serviceable #3 and 4. A couple of mutliple cup winning forwards and not to mention the league reverting back to clutch and grab.
He's 72! He's the only guy in the league who still remembers the last leafs cup!
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Post by seventeen on Jul 23, 2015 17:17:46 GMT -5
Read a tweet by Tom Gulitti who has covered the Devils for some time. Lamoriello is dictatorial and not used to mamagement by consensus. That makes it even odder to pick him as a GM. Interim thing until either Hunter or Dubas take over? Weird, weird, weird is all I can say. Weird.
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Post by jkr on Jul 24, 2015 6:16:52 GMT -5
What about LL's policy of letting primo UFAS like Niedermeyer, Rafalski, Parise walk for nothing? Did they ask about that?
Imagine how much better off the Devils would be if he had amassed prime prospects and picks for all those players.
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Post by blny on Jul 24, 2015 7:33:24 GMT -5
What about LL's policy of letting primo UFAS like Niedermeyer, Rafalski, Parise walk for nothing? Did they ask about that? Imagine how much better off the Devils would be if he had amassed prime prospects and picks for all those players. Or blowing $100 million contracts on Kovalchuk and getting penalized for it. His inability to adapt to the cap era cost him and the team big time. AFAIC, Dubas is better equipped to run a modern team than Lou. |
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Post by Skilly on Jul 24, 2015 10:50:42 GMT -5
Lou is the master of finding loopholes in the rules that benefits his team though ... Alex Mogilny contract hiding; asking and getting Scott Stevens as compensation when the Blues signed, coincidentally enough, Brendan Shanahan as a restricted free-agent; and he is the GM that traded Tom Kurvers to the Leafs in 1989, for their first rounder in the 1991 draft... which turned into the #3 overall selection , Scott Niedermayer.
Lou is well respected through-out the league. I think Toronto has done well in their coach and GM selections,... their president on the other hand. How hands off will he be??
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Post by jkr on Jul 24, 2015 13:07:28 GMT -5
Lou is the master of finding loopholes in the rules that benefits his team though ... Alex Mogilny contract hiding; asking and getting Scott Stevens as compensation when the Blues signed, coincidentally enough, Brendan Shanahan as a restricted free-agent; and he is the GM that traded Tom Kurvers to the Leafs in 1989, for their first rounder in the 1991 draft... which turned into the #3 overall selection , Scott Niedermayer. Lou is well respected through-out the league. I think Toronto has done well in their coach and GM selections,... their president on the other hand. How hands off will he be?? But he has put himself into difficult situations. It was well known here in Toronto that Mogilny had a chronically injured hip and was pretty much done. He shouldn't have been signed & LL had to scramble to find a solution for his own mistake. Same deal with Malakhov - he had to include his 1st rounder to get SJ to take him off his hands in 2006. Yes he drafted Niedermeyer but if you look at the rest of that 1st round the only player that really rivals Niedermeyer in quality is Peter Forsberg. And that was 26 years ago. Then he loses Niedermeyer for nothing as a UFA. As mentioned above in previous posts his asset management is poor. He has let a number quality players walk for nothing instead of turning them into young assets and this strategy has left the Devils in a tough spot. The media is taking the good with out mentioning the negative. Big surprise. |
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Post by blny on Jul 24, 2015 17:02:10 GMT -5
Lou is the master of finding loopholes in the rules that benefits his team though ... Alex Mogilny contract hiding; asking and getting Scott Stevens as compensation when the Blues signed, coincidentally enough, Brendan Shanahan as a restricted free-agent; and he is the GM that traded Tom Kurvers to the Leafs in 1989, for their first rounder in the 1991 draft... which turned into the #3 overall selection , Scott Niedermayer. Lou is well respected through-out the league. I think Toronto has done well in their coach and GM selections,... their president on the other hand. How hands off will he be?? Pre cap, yes. During the cap era, he's largely shot himself in the foot and failed to put together a deep prospect pool or a deep roster. Mogilny was right at the start of the cap era. Either he, or someone on his staff, found that one. All those other moves are prehistoric. It's been a long long time since he pulled a rabbit out of his hat. |
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Post by Skilly on Jul 24, 2015 18:14:49 GMT -5
Lou is the master of finding loopholes in the rules that benefits his team though ... Alex Mogilny contract hiding; asking and getting Scott Stevens as compensation when the Blues signed, coincidentally enough, Brendan Shanahan as a restricted free-agent; and he is the GM that traded Tom Kurvers to the Leafs in 1989, for their first rounder in the 1991 draft... which turned into the #3 overall selection , Scott Niedermayer. Lou is well respected through-out the league. I think Toronto has done well in their coach and GM selections,... their president on the other hand. How hands off will he be?? But he has put himself into difficult situations. It was well known here in Toronto that Mogilny had a chronically injured hip and was pretty much done. He shouldn't have been signed & LL had to scramble to find a solution for his own mistake. Same deal with Malakhov - he had to include his 1st rounder to get SJ to take him off his hands in 2006. Yes he drafted Niedermeyer but if you look at the rest of that 1st round the only player that really rivals Niedermeyer in quality is Peter Forsberg. And that was 26 years ago. Then he loses Niedermeyer for nothing as a UFA. As mentioned above in previous posts his asset management is poor. He has let a number quality players walk for nothing instead of turning them into young assets and this strategy has left the Devils in a tough spot. The media is taking the good with out mentioning the negative. Big surprise. There were extenuating circumstances involved in Lou getting nothing for Niedermayer. Niedermayer went to arbitration at the end of the 2003-04 season. The arbitrator awarded him a one year, 7 million dollar contract. But that award was voided when the 2004-05 lockout happened and he was deemed to be a UFA . Not much Lou could have done there. And when Niedermayer was deemed to be a UFA, Lamorello immediately offered a 5 yr , 7.8 million contract, the max allowed at the time. Since Niedermayers last restricted year was wiped off the books, he decided to play with his brother, for 4 yrs at 6.75 million. I can't see blaming Lou for how that shook out |
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Post by Skilly on Jul 24, 2015 18:30:36 GMT -5
Lou is the master of finding loopholes in the rules that benefits his team though ... Alex Mogilny contract hiding; asking and getting Scott Stevens as compensation when the Blues signed, coincidentally enough, Brendan Shanahan as a restricted free-agent; and he is the GM that traded Tom Kurvers to the Leafs in 1989, for their first rounder in the 1991 draft... which turned into the #3 overall selection , Scott Niedermayer. Lou is well respected through-out the league. I think Toronto has done well in their coach and GM selections,... their president on the other hand. How hands off will he be?? Pre cap, yes. During the cap era, he's largely shot himself in the foot and failed to put together a deep prospect pool or a deep roster. Mogilny was right at the start of the cap era. Either he, or someone on his staff, found that one. All those other moves are prehistoric. It's been a long long time since he pulled a rabbit out of his hat. I don't know ... I know people want to point to the Kovalchuck deal as a bad mark against him, but it was also a point in his favour, they needed goal scoring and he went out and got the best goal scorer available, and included in that deal was the pick they used to select Jon Merril. Every piece that went the other way no longer plays in Atlanta/Winnipeg. And this trade was instrumental in them getting to the Cup Final. Martin Brodeur needed to be replaced and he gets Corey Schneider out of Vancouver. It might not look like much, but he got a #1 when they desperately needed it |
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Post by blny on Jul 24, 2015 20:23:11 GMT -5
Pre cap, yes. During the cap era, he's largely shot himself in the foot and failed to put together a deep prospect pool or a deep roster. Mogilny was right at the start of the cap era. Either he, or someone on his staff, found that one. All those other moves are prehistoric. It's been a long long time since he pulled a rabbit out of his hat. I don't know ... I know people want to point to the Kovalchuck deal as a bad mark against him, but it was also a point in his favour, they needed goal scoring and he went out and got the best goal scorer available, and included in that deal was the pick they used to select Jon Merril. Every piece that went the other way no longer plays in Atlanta/Winnipeg. And this trade was instrumental in them getting to the Cup Final. Martin Brodeur needed to be replaced and he gets Corey Schneider out of Vancouver. It might not look like much, but he got a #1 when they desperately needed it I don't dispute the trade for Kovalchuk. He certainly addressed an issue. Lou tried to pull a fast one on the back loaded contract, got penalized for it, had to reorganize the deal, and from the outside it appeared to hamper their ability to augment the roster further. They let Parise, Niedermeyer etc walk for nothing. They threw a lot of money at Zajac. He and Conte were also considered to be amongst the best at drafting. Can't say that's very true since the likes of Parise. Far more misses than hits. |
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Post by jkr on Jul 24, 2015 20:41:46 GMT -5
Pre cap, yes. During the cap era, he's largely shot himself in the foot and failed to put together a deep prospect pool or a deep roster. Mogilny was right at the start of the cap era. Either he, or someone on his staff, found that one. All those other moves are prehistoric. It's been a long long time since he pulled a rabbit out of his hat. I don't know ... I know people want to point to the Kovalchuck deal as a bad mark against him, but it was also a point in his favour, they needed goal scoring and he went out and got the best goal scorer available, and included in that deal was the pick they used to select Jon Merril. Every piece that went the other way no longer plays in Atlanta/Winnipeg. And this trade was instrumental in them getting to the Cup Final. Martin Brodeur needed to be replaced and he gets Corey Schneider out of Vancouver. It might not look like much, but he got a #1 when they desperately needed it This is a pattern Skilly. He gets himself into bad situations like Mogilny or Malakhov then is forced to wiggle out of them. Yes he did get Schneider but he had to give up his 1st rounder in 2013 & by that time Brodeur was 41. He should have been looking for a replacement long before that. Maybe if he had dealt some of the other UFAs he would have something in the cupboard to use instead of trading away high picks. |
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Post by franko on Jul 24, 2015 21:11:26 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Jul 25, 2015 1:10:28 GMT -5
I have a Occam's razor solution, both to Lou Lamoriello's success and Ken Holland's success. The reasons are called Scott Niedermayer and Nicklas Lidstrom. Both guys show up and suddenly Stanley Cups appear. They leave and the Stanley Cups disappear. I'd bet big bucks that if Jonathan Toews got hurt and missed the playoffs, the Hawks wouldn't win a thing. It's that simple. If one analyzed the moves that both Lamoriello and Holland made over the years, you'd probably conclude they were ok GM's who simply didn't make a lot of mistakes. Average in other words, but they had the good fortune to draft a couple of guys who carried the team for years. Niedermayer not only won cups with NJ, he also won one with Anaheim in 2007 and a couple of Olympic gold medals as well.
So much of Lucky Lou's success relates to Niedermayer and Brodeur, of course. Stevens was compensation for St. Louis getting Shanahan, but if you look at the drafting record of David Conte and Lamoriello, you wonder how NJ got the reputation for drafting so wisely. They had the occasional decent pick, but if you look at where they should be drafting good prospects (in the first and second rounds), they've been a graveyard since 1997. I won't list them all, but here are the good players (the guys who made an impact) they've picked in those rounds since 1996:
Scott Gomez - Zach Parise - that's it.
If you go down one rung, some decent players selected in those rounds are Travis Zajac and Eric Gelinas. That's over a 20 year period! If we had that kind of scouting, we'd be hanging the GM and the head scout from the rafters. Talk about living off two players!
Anyway, I point this out because it's easy to be misled into thinking some GM's are good, when really there was a lot of luck involved.
I still haven't figured out why Toronto would hire Lamoriello except for perhaps he was the only one who wanted the job. I read one story on him that had Lou waiting in hallways while fired employees left the building holding their cardboard boxes of personal stuff. Supposedly, he heckled them as they left. If that's true, what a nice guy. The Leafs can have him.
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Post by CentreHice on Jul 25, 2015 13:59:14 GMT -5
Lamoriello Sued Here's the story seventeen is talking about. No excuse for that behaviour, unless those 6 executives were lobbying for Lou's dismissal over the years, and he was getting literally "the last laugh".
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Post by seventeen on Jul 25, 2015 19:40:59 GMT -5
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 27, 2015 13:15:24 GMT -5
I guess you can't argue results, but the first thing Lou Lamoriello had was Martin Brodeur tending goal ... he also had one of the best captains in the game in Scott Stephens ... they seemed to draft well during the Cup years (hockeydb.com) but if you look at the last 10, or so years, Lamoriello hasn't been all that succesful at building a team through the draft ... since the cap was introduced in the 2005/2006 season his teams haven't had the same impact ... one side of me wants to see the Leafs get better, but the other side says ... well, just a sec ... both sides of me want to see the Leafs crash and burn and remain in the basement ... yeah, that's what I really wanted to say, eh ... Cheers. |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 27, 2015 13:46:32 GMT -5
I guess you can't argue results, but the first thing Lou Lamoriello had was Martin Brodeur tending goal ... he also had one of the best captains in the game in Scott Stephens ... they seemed to draft well during the Cup years (hockeydb.com) but if you look at the last 10, or so years, Lamoriello hasn't been all that succesful at building a team through the draft ... since the cap was introduced in the 2005/2006 season his teams haven't had the same impact ... one side of me wants to see the Leafs get better, but the other side says ... well, just a sec ... both sides of me want to see the Leafs crash and burn and remain in the basement ... yeah, that's what I really wanted to say, eh ... Cheers. That's better Dis. For a second I thought you were experiencing early onset Alzheimer's, but it appears you're fully recovered. Good to have the real Dis back. |
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