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Post by blny on May 8, 2016 12:25:46 GMT -5
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Post by BadCompany on May 8, 2016 12:32:21 GMT -5
Well now we'll get to see how much is the man, and how much is the myth...
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 8, 2016 13:17:30 GMT -5
He's a good lineup to start with ...
Cheers.
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Post by Forum Ghost on May 9, 2016 8:10:26 GMT -5
Therrien can breathe a huge sigh of relief in his foxhole now that Boucher is off the market.
Was hoping that Boucher would still be available at the start of the season in case things fell off the rails for Therrien. Now, even if they do, I'm not sure who would be an NHL ready replacement that could be parachuted in.
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Post by Boston_Habs on May 9, 2016 8:20:05 GMT -5
Therrien can breathe a huge sigh of relief in his foxhole now that Boucher is off the market. Was hoping that Boucher would still be available at the start of the season in case things fell off the rails for Therrien. Now, even if they do, I'm not sure who would be an NHL ready replacement that could be parachuted in. There won't be. Bergevin and Therrien are joined at the hip, as Berg made very clear. Next year is potentially make or break for both of them. It will be the 5th season of the regime and we better be right back to being in the mix: 47-50 wins, 100-110 points, top 2 in the division. I wanted Therrien axed, but in some ways the bar is even higher now for both of them. We'll give you a Mulligan for a year where we didn't have Price, but that's it. This is not a stacked conference. No use for Guy Boucher, or Bruce Boudreau, or trying to poach an innovative coach like Dave Tippett? Fine, then you better make sure the guy you kept gets the job done. Pas d'excuses. |
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Post by The Habitual Fan on May 9, 2016 9:41:05 GMT -5
I'm glad that Boucher has gotten another NHL job because I don't think he proved anything in Tampa so to me he is still pretty much an unknown . I always felt there was more to his firing than the record and why he was not considered a top candidate for any other job until now or landed an assistant position. It will be interesting to see the next couple of years and how he does because he was also mentioned to be an MT replacement so the Habs have either dodged a bullet or missed the boat.
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Post by CentreHice on May 9, 2016 10:37:41 GMT -5
We'll give you a Mulligan for a year where we didn't have Price, but that's it. Not me. Therrien didn't even hint at assuming any blame or the need for personal improvement from him and his staff. There's an entitlement issue at work, IMO. No use for Guy Boucher, or Bruce Boudreau, or trying to poach an innovative coach like Dave Tippett? Fine, then you better make sure the guy you kept gets the job done. Unless Tippet and Boudreau are bilingual…only the idea of Boucher would've been entertained. They've already ushered that statement to the Hypocrisy section of the Bell Centre. |
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Post by Polarice on May 9, 2016 10:45:48 GMT -5
From what I've seen from Boucher, he's just a younger version of MT.
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Post by BadCompany on May 9, 2016 11:19:31 GMT -5
If record means anything, it's a mixed bag with Boucher:
QMJHL: 3 seasons
* Lost in the 2nd round
* Missed the playoffs
* Won the championship
AHL: 1 season
* Lost in the 3rd round
NHL: 2.5 seasons
* Lost in the 3rd round
* Missed the playoffs
* Fired half-way through, with his team on the way to missing the playoffs again
Swiss League: 2.5 seasons
* Missed the playoffs
* Lost in the 2nd round
* Fired half-way through, with his team on the way to missing the playoffs again
So, he was head coach 10 times:
* 1 championship
* Made the playoffs 4 times
* Missed the playoffs 3 times, and was coach in 2 more partial seasons where his team ended up missing the playoffs after he was fired. Don't know if that should count as missing the playoffs 5 times or not.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 9, 2016 11:47:32 GMT -5
Therrien can breathe a huge sigh of relief in his foxhole now that Boucher is off the market. Was hoping that Boucher would still be available at the start of the season in case things fell off the rails for Therrien. Now, even if they do, I'm not sure who would be an NHL ready replacement that could be parachuted in. Hello FG, nice to see you checking in ... as an outsider looking in, I don't think Michel Therrien's job was ever in jeopardy ... unless Carey Price does his version of a tank, Therrien will probably be around until his contract runs out ... if Price is good enough to carry the team, then I suspect he'll be good enough to carry Therrien, as well ... that's just me, though ... Cheers. |
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Post by The Habitual Fan on May 9, 2016 11:47:40 GMT -5
Really the two things about Boucher that stick out to me are his yelling at everyone from the bench including refs and his players and the infamous Tampa-Philly game where he played the trap and refused to attack while the players just stood In standoff looking at each other.
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Post by seventeen on May 9, 2016 13:22:11 GMT -5
To provide some context around his record (skeptical me never takes anything at face value) If record means anything, it's a mixed bag with Boucher: QMJHL: 3 seasons* Lost in the 2nd round * Missed the playoffs * Won the championship Juniour hockey teams are very volatile as some times they clear the decks in order to have a much better team the following year. That happened in Boucher's second year. Drummondville had a .236 record that season and an .824 record the next when they loaded up for the Mem Cup and lost an OT semi-final to Windsor, who had Taylor Hall, Ryan Ellis, Adam Henrique and Greg Nemisz, all 1st round picks. Clucher had some decent guys too, Mike Hoffman, Dimitri Kulikov, and a 15 year old Sean Couturier. Not quite the same quality, and only lost in OT. AHL: 1 season* Lost in the 3rd round Yes, that was a good team, but that was also the year the Habs got those injury problems on defense, calling up PK. He played 7 games for Boucher in the playoffs, scoring 10 points. Think if he'd been around the entire time, they'd have won the CAlder that year? Very likely. You can't pull a future Norris Trophy winner off your team and not have it hurt big time. Check out the roster of that team. DD and Brock Trotter were the top playoff scorers, followed by Mike Glumac and Andre Benoit. www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0007912010.htmlI'd say that was probably a pretty good coaching job that year. NHL: 2.5 seasons* Lost in the 3rd round * Missed the playoffs * Fired half-way through, with his team on the way to missing the playoffs again I've written enough about the crappy goaltending on Tampa except for that one 3rd round team where Dwayne Roloson was so good. Swiss League: 2.5 seasons* Missed the playoffs * Lost in the 2nd round * Fired half-way through, with his team on the way to missing the playoffs again C'mon, BC, he only coached 6 games that first year the team missed the playoffs, probably being hired at the tail end after the other coach was fired. He's only a coach, not Moses. His final season, he was fired because he wouldn't commit to coming back the following season, not for performance reasons. He wanted to return to the NHL, and Bern decided he could go then and there. He coached 22 games out of 50, so I'm not sure its fair to blame him for missing the playoffs. So, he was head coach 10 times: * 1 championship * Made the playoffs 4 times * Missed the playoffs 3 times, and was coach in 2 more partial seasons where his team ended up missing the playoffs after he was fired. Don't know if that should count as missing the playoffs 5 times or not. So of the times he missed the playoffs, one was for taking over a team that was probably well out of it by then, one was for political, a reasons, a couple were for horrible goaltending and once was for having a juniour team that was rebuilding. Ask NWT about those as he follows the WHL really closely. It's really hard in juniour hockey to rebuild and remain competitive. Often, you're better to tank. I'm not saying Boucher is the next Quenneville, Tippett or Sutter. He does seem to take an awful lot of criticism that may not be deserved. Just consider THF's post above, which is what really registers with most fans when Boucher's name comes up. I was just thinking that with Ottawa getting Boucher and Crawford, we now probably have the worst coaching in our Division. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on May 9, 2016 13:25:41 GMT -5
Ultimately ownership and Geoff Molson will decide if the "excuses" are sufficient. Again, I don't have a huge problem with Therrien coming back. Guy Boucher was probably the only viable alternative out there, and for whatever reason the Habs felt that the "devil they know" with Therrien would be better than the one they don't know with Boucher.
Absent a compelling alternative, it would be a big risk for Bergevin and the Habs to switch coaches and staff and the whole thing falls flat. And who can say with confidence that Boucher would get more out of this team than Therrien? We're not talking about Scotty Bowman.
So keeping Therrien has removed an excuse from Berg if we crash and burn again. Can't say we were breaking in a new coach as the reason for another bad season.
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Post by seventeen on May 9, 2016 13:26:25 GMT -5
Therrien can breathe a huge sigh of relief in his foxhole now that Boucher is off the market. Was hoping that Boucher would still be available at the start of the season in case things fell off the rails for Therrien. Now, even if they do, I'm not sure who would be an NHL ready replacement that could be parachuted in. Hello FG, nice to see you checking in ... as an outsider looking in, I don't think Michel Therrien's job was ever in jeopardy ... unless Carey Price does his version of a tank, Therrien will probably be around until his contract runs out ... if Price is good enough to carry the team, then I suspect he'll be good enough to carry Therrien, as well ... that's just me, though ... Cheers. Wouldn't we love to have Therrien say some of the following: |
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Post by blny on May 9, 2016 14:25:19 GMT -5
Sens announce that Crawford has accepted a position as associate coach.
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Post by franko on May 9, 2016 14:51:19 GMT -5
I believe that if coaching makes a difference the Habs are going to be in trouble this coming season. unless, of course, Price pitches about 82 shut-outs.
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Post by Skilly on May 9, 2016 15:09:10 GMT -5
Ottawa gets the two bilingual coaches on the market ...
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Post by Forum Ghost on May 9, 2016 15:18:17 GMT -5
With Crawford and Boucher, it's looking like a really solid coaching staff in Ottawa already. That's bad news for us because it means that a division rival just got better and they haven't even made changes to their roster yet.
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Post by blny on May 9, 2016 16:18:28 GMT -5
It was reported over the weekend that Marc was said to be willing to accept a secondary role to get back to the NHL. It showed humility on his part, and Boucher showed guts to allow a Cup winning coach to be his assistant. Lots wouldn't ... right Therrien?
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Post by madhabber on May 9, 2016 17:32:34 GMT -5
Daigneault, Lacroix and Lefebvre in the minors. No fear of losing your job to anyone in the organization.
Now the only French guy with any current experience on his CV is Hartley. Someone I never wanted on this team but would be happy to trade MT for now. I'm depressed.
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Post by CentreHice on May 9, 2016 20:20:26 GMT -5
It was reported over the weekend that Marc was said to be willing to accept a secondary role to get back to the NHL. It showed humility on his part, and Boucher showed guts to allow a Cup winning coach to be his assistant. Lots wouldn't ... right Therrien? My thoughts exactly.....  |
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Post by jkr on May 9, 2016 20:22:52 GMT -5
Ottawa gets the two bilingual coaches on the market ... Strategy on their part? Hire the available replacements. |
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Post by folatre on May 9, 2016 20:48:43 GMT -5
It requires wisdom to surround oneself with individuals with equal or greater acumen and equal or greater achievement.
Daigneault is high school pal of Bergevin. Lacroix is Therrien buddy. Without knowing, I venture to say Lefebvre meets friendship requirement with someone because he is not accomplishing anything that resemble high level outcomes in St. John's and yet he continues to occupy key position in the organisation.
Maybe Therrien is wise in the cynical sense of the word. Why, for instance, would he seek out let us say Larry Robinson to serve as Associate Coach and defense expert when this giant of hockey and Canadien history could fill a foxhole or two with silverware?
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Post by seventeen on May 10, 2016 0:58:11 GMT -5
I think its quite evident, folatre, that Therrien's wisdom is only exceeded by his ego and his arrogance. He can do it all himself. Of course, one year without Carey and that theory was disproved. I'm still puzzled by Geoff Molson's attitude in all this. I certainly hope that Therrien's tenure is hanging by a very slim thread. And if not, then both he and Bergevin should be replaced.
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Post by BadCompany on May 10, 2016 6:00:00 GMT -5
Or it could be a complete disaster. You've got a meddlesome owner, a rookie GM, and two nakedly ambitious men desperate to revive their moribund NHL coaching careers. Crawford in particular has said that he will "do whatever it takes to become an NHL head coach again" and while on the surface that simply means he is willing to start at the bottom of the mountain again, we all know that in order to get to the summit you have to climb over some bodies. Is he really going to tie what remains of his career to the good ship S.S. Boucher? Is Boucher going to sleep easily, knowing Crawford has no intention of going down with him? I'm sure everything will be fine and dandy if they win... but what happens when they don't? This is a team that has missed the playoffs two out of the last three years, and didn't make it out of the first round in that other year. It's a long NHL season, and every team faces adversity at some point or another - how will they handle it? The first time they lose three in a row will Melnyk berate Dorion, demanding to know what is going on? Will Crawford sneak into Eugene's office and say something like " Guy's a good guy... but here is what I would have done...?" Will Boucher stand in front of the press and state that they " just need to get our special teams going" knowing full well that Crawford is in charge of the special teams? I don't know... everything is good if they win. It's always good when you win. But if they don't, will Boucher and Crawford still be blowing sunshine up each other's skirts, or will the knives come out? |
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Post by blny on May 10, 2016 6:04:30 GMT -5
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Post by Polarice on May 10, 2016 6:39:48 GMT -5
I wouldn't have hired either boucher or crawford, both coach the same style as MT, that's why they were fired in the first place.
I can see MB hiring a non-french speaking coach if he decides to part ways with MT early in the season. I don't thing the press or the fans would make too much noise. It wouldn't be on the same level as hiring a new GM.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 10, 2016 6:48:21 GMT -5
Or it could be a complete disaster. You've got a meddlesome owner, a rookie GM, and two nakedly ambitious men desperate to revive their moribund NHL coaching careers. Crawford in particular has said that he will "do whatever it takes to become an NHL head coach again" and while on the surface that simply means he is willing to start at the bottom of the mountain again, we all know that in order to get to the summit you have to climb over some bodies. Is he really going to tie what remains of his career to the good ship S.S. Boucher? Is Boucher going to sleep easily, knowing Crawford has no intention of going down with him? I'm sure everything will be fine and dandy if they win... but what happens when they don't? This is a team that has missed the playoffs two out of the last three years, and didn't make it out of the first round in that other year. It's a long NHL season, and every team faces adversity at some point or another - how will they handle it? The first time they lose three in a row will Melnyk berate Dorion, demanding to know what is going on? Will Crawford sneak into Eugene's office and say something like " Guy's a good guy... but here is what I would have done...?" Will Boucher stand in front of the press and state that they " just need to get our special teams going" knowing full well that Crawford is in charge of the special teams? I don't know... everything is good if they win. It's always good when you win. But if they don't, will Boucher and Crawford still be blowing sunshine up each other's skirts, or will the knives come out? I'd send this to Bruce Garrioch to run with, but he's already accepted the Dynamic Duo ... if Ottawa starts losing I suspect it won't be long before the media gyrates some bad drama ... Guy Boucher has also put Erik Karlsson on a pedestal already ... we'll see how that goes ... like you said, so long as they're winning ... Cheers. |
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Post by blny on May 10, 2016 7:49:12 GMT -5
Sens better focus on signing Hoffman. Two strong seasons in a row. What offense they have up front drives through him and Stone.
I think Boucher and Crawford are capable of adjusting. Certainly Crawford.
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Post by CentreHice on May 10, 2016 8:36:58 GMT -5
I think that, having coached against each other in the Swiss League the past few seasons, they'll work very well together. Gives them a common, recent base from which to chat, bond. Maybe that's why Boucher agreed to Crawford's hiring.
They're both aware of the politics of coaching, the politics of ooooo, feeling good….(sorry)….
And if they both want to re-establish their NHL careers, I can't see how subterfuge and back-stabbing would improve either's reputation.
If Anderson can regain the form that beat the Habs one year, and almost beat us the next…then they might have something. Then again, he'll be 35 this month...so goaltending will be an issue, most likely. I wonder if they regret the Bishop for Conacher deal. Ah, hindsight. (Side note: Conacher ended up on Boucher's Bern roster this past season.)
I'm sure the systems guys on this board will keep us informed as to the strategies Boucher/Crawford deploy. i.e. do they devise talent-driven systems….or force the players to their regimens.
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