|
|
Post by Tankdriver on Jun 21, 2016 10:27:35 GMT -5
Okay, so how do you think this plays out?
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jun 21, 2016 10:29:50 GMT -5
It's a complete crap shoot imo. Will all depend on who's available. I don't think Sergachev or Chychrun will be available. Both have seen their stock rise. Juolevi might be there. My hope is that Sergachev is there, as he is who I would take at 9 if he were.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jun 21, 2016 16:13:48 GMT -5
Crap shoot indeed. If no move from #9, the it's a) Keller or b) Sergachev if he's fallen (and can't get up  ?) which is unlikely. |
|
|
|
Post by frozone on Jun 21, 2016 19:05:43 GMT -5
As long as nothing crazy happens between 1-8, I think Mtl will be selecting Bean. He seems like a Timmins type of pick... not the best player available, but has more room for growth than most other players in that range. I would love to get a forward like Nylander or Keller, but I don't think they'll be available at 9, so Bean seems to be the likely Timmins choice. Plenty of room for growth:
- He's not short, but certainly hasn't filled out yet. He looks like a 15 year old boy. You just can't compare him directly to someone like Sergachev who is already quite mature physically.
- Just turned 18 in June (fyi, Keller only turns 18 in July)
- 24 goals as a D
- Great skater
- No slouch on the defensive side
- Will be the #1 D next year. Plenty of icetime and important assignments
I'm not implying that Bean will develop anywhere close to Karlsson, but I find their pre-draft situations to be comparable: both great skating offensive D stringbeans expected to go mid first round. There are guys ranked higher that seem to be more complete like Chychrun, Sergachev, Brown (or Bogosian, Luke Schenn, Colin Wilson back in Karlsson's year), but how will they compare once they all mature?
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jun 21, 2016 19:27:39 GMT -5
Interesting perspective frozone. Thanks. I haven't seen Bean play, but I'll look for some video.
Nothing here to really display any speed. Some good footwork. Kid can sure pick corners, especially the short side.
|
|
|
|
Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 21, 2016 23:46:58 GMT -5
Okay, so how do you think this plays out? Julien Gauthier, best francophone available at number 9. Bergevin will announce that he was the guy they really wanted. Actually not a bad choice. |
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Jun 22, 2016 7:32:37 GMT -5
If I had to guess, I will say that they will make a huge push to move up to #4 to get Dubois, much like they did in 2013, when they tried to move up to get Samuel Morin. Much like 2013 though, I think they will fail again.
So I will go with one of the defensemen, and like frozone I will say Jake Bean.
I also think that if Gauthier slides farther than say 20 – and he might – I think they’ll try to move up and get him, much like they did with Latendresse way back when. Teams like Arizona, Carolina, Winnipeg, Boston and Anaheim all have multiple first round picks with their second picks being in the 20-30 range. They would be good targets to throw one, if not both, of those extra second round picks at in a bid to snare the local kid.
Of course if it was me I would be shopping the pick. But that's just me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 22, 2016 10:13:35 GMT -5
I'd like to pick someone, but I don't have my dart board here at work ... lots of good players are available, but as PTH pointed out, just make the right choice ... Nikita Scherbak and Noah Juulsen had off years (or so I've read) ... don't get me wrong, I know they're both just starting out, but I wouldn't want to see another 1st-rounder in that position ... hoping this 1st-rounder will be on the roster sooner, rather than later ...
Cheers.
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jun 22, 2016 10:20:33 GMT -5
I'd like to pick someone, but I don't have my dart board here at work ... lots of good players are available, but as PTH pointed out, just make the right choice ... Nikita Scherbak and Noah Juulsen had off years (or so I've read) ... don't get me wrong, I know they're both just starting out, but I wouldn't want to see another 1st-rounder in that position ... hoping this 1st-rounder will be on the roster sooner, rather than later ... Cheers. Both had some injury issues that hampered their seasons. For Nikita, it was his first pro year. I'm hoping to see a strong move forward for him, and a healthy season. |
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jun 22, 2016 11:16:18 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 22, 2016 12:48:18 GMT -5
I'd like to pick someone, but I don't have my dart board here at work ... lots of good players are available, but as PTH pointed out, just make the right choice ... Nikita Scherbak and Noah Juulsen had off years (or so I've read) ... don't get me wrong, I know they're both just starting out, but I wouldn't want to see another 1st-rounder in that position ... hoping this 1st-rounder will be on the roster sooner, rather than later ... Cheers. Scherbak's injury really messed up his year, although he was showing signs of promising games near the end of the season when the rest of the lineup was pretty gutted. I expect this year, if he can stay healthy, to be a better gauge of what he is capable of at the pro level. Juulsen did not put up big offensive numbers, but he was the go-to guy on a defense-first Kevin Constatine team that lost even more of its offensive kick last season, so he played a much bigger shut down role against opposing top lines. By all accounts, he had a very good season in what he was asked to do given that the team was riding its good goalie and ability to play impeccable team defense. Both of the two above are mid 20's picks, so the expectation around a #9 pick will be quite a bit higher that they can become an impact player sooner rather than later. I really do not see too many of the 2016 first rounders making the show outside of the top three or five guys right away, so some patience will be needed as our pick will not be in that NHL ready category in all likelihood. |
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 22, 2016 12:49:56 GMT -5
I really don't see Brown as a shutdown centre, I think he can still be a top six guy. Not as dynamic as Keller (few are) and not as balanced as Jost, but I still think his game is more about offense at this point. |
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 22, 2016 12:52:11 GMT -5
Okay, so how do you think this plays out? Julien Gauthier, best francophone available at number 9. Bergevin will announce that he was the guy they really wanted. Actually not a bad choice. Gauthier is a gym rat in incredible shape, and a very good power forward. That being said, he should not be the BPA of any team picking in the 9th spot. I could see this pick if they move down. There will be better players available at 9. |
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jun 22, 2016 12:53:35 GMT -5
I really don't see Brown as a shutdown centre, I think he can still be a top six guy. Not as dynamic as Keller (few are) and not as balanced as Jost, but I still think his game is more about offense at this point. One can hope. I just see a big lumbering guy who uses his size against small kids to score modestly. I'd prefer to use the pick to add someone dynamic. Julian Gauthier may slip to the second round at this rate. If he slips far enough, you can get the lumberjack with him. |
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 22, 2016 14:35:18 GMT -5
I really don't see Brown as a shutdown centre, I think he can still be a top six guy. Not as dynamic as Keller (few are) and not as balanced as Jost, but I still think his game is more about offense at this point. One can hope. I just see a big lumbering guy who uses his size against small kids to score modestly. I'd prefer to use the pick to add someone dynamic. Julian Gauthier may slip to the second round at this rate. If he slips far enough, you can get the lumberjack with him. Brown has been one of the biggest risers in the draft rankings over the season. I saw a few of his games on TV this season, and he had a good U-18's although I still think he picked the wrong country (he is a dual citizen). He does not play a big physical game yet, but he seems to be a bit more agile and skilled than McCarron. I know the comparisons are unfair, but he is a big guy amongst his peers a lot like Mike was in juniors. I just see a more refined offensive game out of Brown at the same point, and that even considers that pre-draft McCarron was playing in the USHL with the USNDP team...so lower competition than Brown playing top minutes in the OHL. If both Brown and Keller are available when the Habs pick (very possible), it would be very interesting to see how they rank two very different players. Keller's skill set is really hard to ignore, as is his smaller frame. |
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jun 22, 2016 15:25:15 GMT -5
Yes, Brown has a lot of promoters and perhaps justifiably so. Despite his size, he isn't a bad skater from what I've read. The key for me (who likes Keller), is that Keller is just offensively brilliant. He's really creative and finds open guys. He also is an elite skater and I always have a soft spot for those guys. I think fast guys can adjust to the better speed of the NHL more easily than big guys, who have played against a lot of smaller guys in juniour. That advantage is definitely taken away from them in the NHL and while everyone is faster there than in juniour, I don't think it hurts as much. If Keller was Jost's size, he'd probably be picked 4 or 5. Personal preferences I guess.
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jun 22, 2016 15:53:43 GMT -5
That may all well be. I just cringe at the idea of what appears to be the 'safe' pick.
|
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Jun 22, 2016 16:56:13 GMT -5
I would like to see Nylander or Sergachev fall to #9, unlikely as this may be.
The kids in most mock draft going in the 9-18 range for me from talent package perspective look like they have good but not great NHL player ceiling and more than a couple of them would not surprise me if they do not reach good NHL player tier. This worries me a little. I am begin to feel moving down a few spots may not be bad business.
|
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jun 22, 2016 17:18:46 GMT -5
Reports are ten teams are inquiring about Subban.
I'm with BC, I don't think we select at #9
Size vs speed ... I like durable guys. No idea who we will select, I'll have to check the NCAA rosters first
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jun 22, 2016 17:42:30 GMT -5
Reports are ten teams are inquiring about Subban. I'm with BC, I don't think we select at #9 Size vs speed ... I like durable guys. No idea who we will select, I'll have to check the NCAA rosters first Then it must be Charlie McAvoy who played with Boston University last year. There are no other NCAA defensemen available anywhere near our spot. But it could be Keller as a vicarious pick. He's committed to Boston U next year. Or Kiefer Bellows who is also a Boston U commit. There, have I saved you some research time?  |
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Jun 22, 2016 17:43:34 GMT -5
Reports are ten teams are inquiring about Subban. I'm with BC, I don't think we select at #9 Size vs speed ... I like durable guys. No idea who we will select, I'll have to check the NCAA rosters first Based on a guy who once got had a Junior hockey scoop for a reporter, apparently Winnipeg is looking at PK very seriously. 2nd overall and Trouba ? More, less ? If it means adding Laine, on a cost-controlled contract and he's not eligible for the expansion draft, you have to think about it. |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 22, 2016 17:43:47 GMT -5
Okay, so how do you think this plays out? Julien Gauthier, best francophone available at number 9. Bergevin will announce that he was the guy they really wanted. Actually not a bad choice. Is he another Eric Daze, or is he another Guillaume Latendresse ... and I liked Latendresse, by the way ... you know, when he decided to play ... now his career is over at 29 ... I suspect Daze ( (6'6, 222 lbs)) would have put more impressive numbers had he remained healthy ... Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Jun 22, 2016 17:44:29 GMT -5
On the poll, I voted Jost, for no good reason since I think we just don't know the players well enough.
|
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Jun 22, 2016 20:20:28 GMT -5
Of course teams inquire about Subban before July 1. Subban is under contract long-term and as player he is proven real deal (in prime, elite #1 d-man, Norris winner). Even to leave aside the bad publicity hit the organisation absorbs for dealing a superstar with big heart for local community, there are not many teams that can begin to put together a realistic package.
Winnipeg with the #2 pick is one team that could be serious. Edmonton would have to give up more quality assets off current roster since the #4 pick is worth far less than #2 in this draft; likewise for Vancouver and the Canucks have fewer attractive roster assets than Oilers.
With risk this kind of deal entail, I have hard time to believe Bergevin would dare to trade Subban to Eastern Conference club.
I stay on record believing this is not going to happen. A host of factors say no. For one, few serious suitors are likely out there because only kings ransom justifies giving up proved elite piece like Subban. Second, it would be strange approach for risk averse Marc Bergevin. Another, Geoff Molson is smart businessman (or least this ownership group that his family leads believe he is) and smart businessmen do not anger clients/customers.
For me teams are calling in large reason because thanks to Therriens habit of publicly criticizing Subban. Teams smell possibility that poor relationship could make one foxhole buddy more open to trading an elite piece since the other foxhole buddy sees Subban as non-conformist.
|
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Jun 22, 2016 21:40:25 GMT -5
Of course teams inquire about Subban before July 1. Subban is under contract long-term and as player he is proven real deal (in prime, elite #1 d-man, Norris winner). Even to leave aside the bad publicity hit the organisation absorbs for dealing a superstar with big heart for local community, there are not many teams that can begin to put together a realistic package. Winnipeg with the #2 pick is one team that could be serious. Edmonton would have to give up more quality assets off current roster since the #4 pick is worth far less than #2 in this draft; likewise for Vancouver and the Canucks have fewer attractive roster assets than Oilers. With risk this kind of deal entail, I have hard time to believe Bergevin would dare to trade Subban to Eastern Conference club. I stay on record believing this is not going to happen. A host of factors say no. For one, few serious suitors are likely out there because only kings ransom justifies giving up proved elite piece like Subban. Second, it would be strange approach for risk averse Marc Bergevin. Another, Geoff Molson is smart businessman (or least this ownership group that his family leads believe he is) and smart businessmen do not anger clients/customers. For me teams are calling in large reason because thanks to Therriens habit of publicly criticizing Subban. Teams smell possibility that poor relationship could make one foxhole buddy more open to trading an elite piece since the other foxhole buddy sees Subban as non-conformist. Well, I've always thought trading Subban only made sense if we got star power in return, and a #2 overall pick (Patrick Laine) would do that... If we could work an Ehlers-9th overall into all that, we might be able to add Ehlers and Laine to our forward lineup next season. Our backend would suffer, of course, but we aren't adding elite top line talent just by doing nothing. Then again, whoever we pick might be the best forward of the draft, you just never know. |
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jun 23, 2016 0:36:49 GMT -5
Reports are ten teams are inquiring about Subban. I'm with BC, I don't think we select at #9 Size vs speed ... I like durable guys. No idea who we will select, I'll have to check the NCAA rosters first Based on a guy who once got had a Junior hockey scoop for a reporter, apparently Winnipeg is looking at PK very seriously. 2nd overall and Trouba ? More, less ? If it means adding Laine, on a cost-controlled contract and he's not eligible for the expansion draft, you have to think about it. Now that's one I hadn't heard before and it certainly makes one pause and think. I'm not sure it makes sense from Winnipeg's viewpoint. They already have Big Buf and Tyler Myers on right D. Where are they going to find time for P.K.? From a CAP standpoint, it makes more sense to sign Trouba and Laine (should be about the same salary combined for a few years at least). They've got a decent back line already. Perhaps they'd look then at moving Myers or Buf for a centreman. On the merits of the trade itself, it seems fair. Habs would need someone to play right D. Petry moves up to top pair and Trouba falls into the second pair for now. Laine or Puljujarvi add a bunch to Habs offense, right now. Habs could sign Lucic for the left wing  and they'd have two pretty good lines with Pleks centering Lucy and Laine. Not to mention that we keep our 9th pick and the chance to draft another centreman or defenceman. Makes sense, except for the fact P.K. is an icon in Montreal. |
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jun 23, 2016 0:44:14 GMT -5
Winnipeg with the #2 pick is one team that could be serious. Edmonton would have to give up more quality assets off current roster since the #4 pick is worth far less than #2 in this draft; likewise for Vancouver and the Canucks have fewer attractive roster assets than Oilers. I'm beginning to think Vancouver is our best shot to remain 'safe' by not giving up P.K. and simply do a switch of draft choices. The Canucks really need help on Defense and could use some wingers too. They're plenty strong at centre. If we can package either Beaulieu or Pateryn (preferably Pateryn as Juulsen is his obvious replacement in a couple of years) with say Ghetto or Carr and our 9th, that allows us to nab either Tkatchuk or Dubois (hopefully Dubois) and have a winger that might be able to play this year or next at the latest. We'd lose little and gain some real talent. Canucks would likely be able to pick up Keller, Jost, Brown or a defenceman at #9 and have an improved defense along with a good young winger. It would allow the Canucks to be better next year and a few years down the road. I think that's one of the more plausible and not quite so dramatic scenarios. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 3:22:17 GMT -5
They trade the pick along with desharnais and Emelin for a top six scoring forward that is taller than 6'0".
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jun 23, 2016 9:40:52 GMT -5
As good as Laine projects to be, and as nice as Trouba is, it's not enough imo. PK is more than just the product of his on ice play. You can't easily replace his presence in the community. It's enormous. Price and Pacioretty just aren't up to it. Laine appears to be a character, and full of charisma, but it's far too much of a burden for an 18 year old.
After 2017, Markov is gone. Trouba, Petry, and co aren't as good as Subban, Petry and co. For me, it's as simple as that.
Teams are calling because pending UFAs are being moved and signing. Teams see how valuable puck movers are, and Montreal simply has one of the best. To get a player of his caliber requires over payment. To get a person of his caliber requires more than any team is willing to part with imo.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jun 23, 2016 12:41:44 GMT -5
As good as Laine projects to be, and as nice as Trouba is, it's not enough imo. PK is more than just the product of his on ice play. You can't easily replace his presence in the community. It's enormous. Price and Pacioretty just aren't up to it. Laine appears to be a character, and full of charisma, but it's far too much of a burden for an 18 year old. After 2017, Markov is gone. Trouba, Petry, and co aren't as good as Subban, Petry and co. For me, it's as simple as that. Teams are calling because pending UFAs are being moved and signing. Teams see how valuable puck movers are, and Montreal simply has one of the best. To get a player of his caliber requires over payment. To get a person of his caliber requires more than any team is willing to part with imo. I wasn't seriously thinking of trading P.K. It was more of a theoretical exercise. I can't see him being traded. P.K is an icon in Montreal and to trade him, you'd have to get back so much that it would make no sense for any rival GM. I think Laine's going to be awfully damn good, so the Jets would be crazy to trade that pick. There seems to be more scuttlebutt about Columbus trading their pick, though. It would have to be a darned good deal, but I can understand that. Columbus needs to replace Johansen at centre and there aren't any centres that justify that choice at #3. Trading down a few spots makes sense, though I'm not sure going down to #9 is safe enough for Columbus. Calgary's pick at #6 is a much better bet to have Brown or Keller available. Centres and defensemen are going to garner more attention than wingers, unless there a sizeable difference in potential. That might make Nylander slide a bit. Not quite as good as Tkachuk or Dubois but better than Brown or Keller, but a winger, so less impactful. This is such fun! |
|
?) which is unlikely. 
and they'd have two pretty good lines with Pleks centering Lucy and Laine. Not to mention that we keep our 9th pick and the chance to draft another centreman or defenceman. Makes sense, except for the fact P.K. is an icon in Montreal.