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Post by CentreHice on Aug 24, 2016 18:23:00 GMT -5
Benn and Keith No-Go Jay Bouwmeester takes Duncan Keith's place. Logan Couture in for Jamie Benn. Canada has selected Jay Bouwmeester to replace Duncan Keith on its roster for the World Cup of Hockey.
Keith is still rehabbing a right knee injury he suffered last season, the Chicago Blackhawks said. The two-time Norris Trophy winner as the NHL’s top defenceman had surgery to repair a torn meniscus in October.
Bouwmeester rejoins Canada after winning gold at the 2014 Sochi Olympics. He was chosen as Keith’s replacement by Canadian general manager Doug Armstrong, who’s also his GM with the St. Louis Blues.
The 32-year-old smooth-skating lefty will presumably again be paired with fellow Blues defenceman Alex Pietrangelo at the World Cup, which begins Sept. 17 in Toronto.
Canada already had an injury replacement at forward with Logan Couture taking Jamie Benn’s place.
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Post by seventeen on Aug 24, 2016 19:29:49 GMT -5
I am willing to be accused of being a moron, but I find some of the picks for Canada a bit puzzling. In fact, I don't even think they should be favourites anymore.
My prejudice is obviously getting in the way, but I wouldn't have picked Shea Weber except as a power play specialist and given the rest of the talent available that means I wouldn't have picked him at all. Couture is an excellent choice to replace Benn, but they'll miss Benn. He's a monster. Couture is a real clutch guy though, and I probably would have had him on the original team.
I'm not sure about Joe Thornton either. I know he's been very good for a long time, but once again, the speed that we're going to see in this tournament is not NHL speed. It's going to be above that level and I'm not sure Joe can keep up. He's 37 years old, which is a bit long in the tooth. Pittsburgh exploited the age of the Sharks with their speed and it worked. I get the feeling Canada's picks were made with too much of an emphasis on what a player has done in the past. That's important, of course, but at some point in a career a players stops being what he once was.
The most puzzling choice of all is Bouwmeester. I wouldn't even have picked him on the 2014 team where he was our weakest defenseman. It seems his talent is playing with Pietrangelo. It's the same reasoning they used in picking Muzzin, (paired with Doughty) who is a better defenseman than most people realize. The issue I have is that Mark Giordano and T.J. Brodie are both available and I think they're both head and shoulders above Bouwmeester. Bouwmeester can skate and that's about it. Pretty average everywhere else. He's paired with Pietrangelo for a reason, but if a team forechecks with emphasis on keeping Pietrangelo from getting the puck and making Bouwmeester move it or carry it out, they'll have success.
I think Sweden is the team to beat. Their forwards are not gamebreakers, but they're solid. Backstrom and Forsberg are probably the most prominent and they'd both have trouble making Team Canada, but that defense is tough. Hedman, Stralman, Ekman-Larsson, Karlsson, (3 of those guys could win the Norris in any given year) Hjalmarsson, Ekholm and Lindholm. Lindholm should have made the original team, so Kronwall's injury actually made them stronger. Lots of speed on that team. Sweden's historical issue is not playing their best on the big stage. If they can get over that hump, they will be tough. It looks to be boiling down to Canada's forwards vs Sweden's defensemen.
And I have to like the North American team. Any team with McDavid and Eichel has to be fun to watch.
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Post by Skilly on Aug 24, 2016 19:41:35 GMT -5
Good thing you put it here ... Snubbing Subban again is worth 20 more pages
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Post by folatre on Aug 24, 2016 19:49:24 GMT -5
Nice post, seventeen.
Canada brain trust is right to degree forging team is not same as picking all star team. But under guise of forging team they are susceptible to sheltering guys who may be a step off from being truly best in their position. Time will say.
Sweden has elite d-corps. I am not sure there is enough diversified firepower for them to win the gold, but they should be in mix.
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 24, 2016 19:58:44 GMT -5
Team Europe and Team North America...
"It's always an honour to represent my continent...."
Whatever....
I'll be watching to see how Price performs...(and to scratch my hockey itch a bit)....but that's about it.
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Post by seventeen on Aug 24, 2016 21:51:15 GMT -5
Good thing you put it here ... Snubbing Subban again is worth 20 more pages Never occurred to me because they were replacing a left handed shot. I know, I know, it shouldn't matter. Great players can handle both sides. Nonetheless, it would be highly unusual for Babcock to go that route. Greatest player of all time played right D while shooting left. Doesn't seem to matter these days. |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 24, 2016 21:57:56 GMT -5
Nice post, seventeen. Canada brain trust is right to degree forging team is not same as picking all star team. But under guise of forging team they are susceptible to sheltering guys who may be a step off from being truly best in their position. Time will say. Sweden has elite d-corps. I am not sure there is enough diversified firepower for them to win the gold, but they should be in mix. Yes, forging a team is different and I realize that sometimes a certain benefit can outweigh the difference in skill between two players. The Bouwmeester thing annoys me, though. Until that Olympic team, Bouwmeester had won nothing and tended to play on losing teams. As well, that Olympic team, despite having an extremely high talent level, didn't blow out anyone and won most if not all of their games by one goal. So in some respects one could argue they weren't that dominant. Extremely good defensively as Babcock had his forwards backchecking like crazy, and then there was Price. Defense was good, but offense wasn't. They might have been able to use PK in a couple more games than they did. Bouwmeester didn't impress me at all in that Olympics. So when one has the option of picking Giordano (who until he was hurt the year before was a Norris candidate)is really puzzling. He had 56 points in 82 games and was only minus 5 on a team with horrible goaltending. He's a hell of a player. It just seems like a snub. |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 24, 2016 22:58:35 GMT -5
To show just how puzzling the selection of Bouwmeester is, look at the following chart:
Giordano is not only a top 2 defenseman in all categories, he's also a darn good top 2 defenseman. Bouwmeester on the other hand.....
What does one take from this? That the guys picking the players don't give a hoot about advanced stats.
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 24, 2016 22:58:54 GMT -5
Bouwmeester didn't impress me at all in that Olympics. So when one has the option of picking Giordano (who until he was hurt the year before was a Norris candidate)is really puzzling. He had 56 points in 82 games and was only minus 5 on a team with horrible goaltending. He's a hell of a player. It just seems like a snub. Doug Armstrong is also Bouwmeester's GM in St. Louis... Enough said. Couldn't very well pass him by twice. |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 24, 2016 23:11:14 GMT -5
Yzerman didn't pick St. Louis at first either, but that was a much tougher choice than this one. To me it's simply a snub of a much better player. A MUCH better player. That's the kind of choice that can come back to bite you. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Bouwmeester makes a critical mistake that costs the team. He's simply not at the level you need to be to win at that tournament.
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Post by jkr on Aug 25, 2016 11:31:55 GMT -5
The puzzling thing about this tournament for me is why it is even taking place. Isn't the Olympics every 4 years enough? We all get our shorts in a knot discussing the roster but really, who cares? Seems like just a money grab by the league & the sponsors.
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Post by 24in93 on Aug 25, 2016 12:40:34 GMT -5
I think it's a precursor to them pulling out of the Olympics. Probably more money to be made this way.
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Post by seventeen on Aug 25, 2016 21:37:27 GMT -5
Yup.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Aug 26, 2016 14:25:29 GMT -5
The NHL has been balking at the idea of participating in South Korea. Long travel, risk of injury, long layoff during the season, etc. I think they are looking at a similar best on best tournament to replace that Olympic spectacle similar to the buzz that follows the FIFA World Cup. The problem is that this thing just reeks of money-grabbing as there already is an annual World Hockey Championships that actually includes countries not just a mix of countries and made-up teams. That tourney has a huge following in Europe as is the "Stanley Cup" of most non-NHL players based in Europe. The issue is that the NHL gets no money out of that though and it has limited TV sponsorship opportunity in North America as it runs head to head with the Stanley Cup playoffs.
They have already sold off the shoulder patches of the jerseys. What is next? The billboard jersey cannot be too far away as the lure of money will be too large.
There will be a lot of worldly talent in the tournament, so like others, it can serve as a bit of a hockey fix before real hockey kicks in...I guess.
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Post by BadCompany on Aug 26, 2016 14:37:17 GMT -5
The solution, and I’ve suggested this a couple of times, is to simply start the season earlier. The World Championships, as we know, are comprised of teams that use “loser” players –i.e. players that have been knocked out of the NHL playoffs. By starting the season earlier, you finish it earlier, thus freeing up more players (if not all of them), to play in the World Championships. The main problem would be the long layoff for some guys, who play on teams that don’t make the playoffs and then have to wait until the Cup is awarded before playing in real games again, but that can be easily fixed with team training camps, friendlies, and so forth.
Start training camp in August. First NHL games are Labour Day weekend, or simply Labour Day Monday. Make it a new NHL tradition – close the cottage, open the arena. Instead of having the season end in early June, it ends in early May, which is right around World Championship time. Have the draft at the end of May, free agency starts June 1st, everyone goes on holiday in July.
They had the perfect opportunity to do this after the lockouts, but didn’t take advantage. When is the next lockout scheduled for? 2022? Instead of sending players to the Olympics that year, redo the whole schedule and make the World Championships the focal point of your international play.
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 26, 2016 14:50:45 GMT -5
Your plan makes too much sense, BC....
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 26, 2016 15:30:48 GMT -5
Good luck to Team Canada ...
Cheers.
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Post by Skilly on Aug 26, 2016 19:06:47 GMT -5
Good thing you put it here ... Snubbing Subban again is worth 20 more pages Never occurred to me because they were replacing a left handed shot. I know, I know, it shouldn't matter. Great players can handle both sides. Nonetheless, it would be highly unusual for Babcock to go that route. Greatest player of all time played right D while shooting left. Doesn't seem to matter these days. I call BS on it meaning anything to Babcock , either. The top pairing in Toronto is Morgan Reilly and Jake Gardiner, both shoot left. Surprise, surprise. Bouwmeester was chosen not because he shoots left. He was chosen because in Canada there is a sentiment to chose players who were there before, and Armstrong is the GM. The conspiracy theorist in me might even point out that Bergevin is one of the 5 GM advisors and I don't think he'd vote for Subban. He prefers the Weber / Bouwmeester type players. The irony of this, is that the World Cup was developed to market the game like soccer internationally. And the biggest player to market the game is being brushed aside. Bettman should step in ... |
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Post by Skilly on Aug 26, 2016 19:16:21 GMT -5
Bah ...the Olympics should be for amateurs, or at the very least athletes that gross under a certain pay threshold (let's say 1M for arguements sake). I don't watch Olympis basketball, hockey , tennis or golf .... Basketball is the worst, no other country has a chance.
And to get on my soap box, until women's hockey is more competitive and not just a joke tournament to watch Canada vs USA, that should be taken out of the Olympics as well.
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Post by seventeen on Aug 26, 2016 23:30:11 GMT -5
Never occurred to me because they were replacing a left handed shot. I know, I know, it shouldn't matter. Great players can handle both sides. Nonetheless, it would be highly unusual for Babcock to go that route. Greatest player of all time played right D while shooting left. Doesn't seem to matter these days. I call BS on it meaning anything to Babcock , either. The top pairing in Toronto is Morgan Reilly and Jake Gardiner, both shoot left. Surprise, surprise. Bouwmeester was chosen not because he shoots left. He was chosen because in Canada there is a sentiment to chose players who were there before, and Armstrong is the GM. The conspiracy theorist in me might even point out that Bergevin is one of the 5 GM advisors and I don't think he'd vote for Subban. He prefers the Weber / Bouwmeester type players. The irony of this, is that the World Cup was developed to market the game like soccer internationally. And the biggest player to market the game is being brushed aside. Bettman should step in ... I'fI was truly focused on winning and not politics, I'd pick Brodie, Giordano and even PK on his wrong side before Bouwmeester. These picks make me question managements desire to win. Giordano on a bad day is better than JB. |
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Post by seventeen on Sept 3, 2016 15:07:50 GMT -5
Is it just me, or does there seem to be a larger than usual number of players getting injured and opting out of the WCOH? Maybe its just the time of the season and guys trying to get in shape are pushing it too hard and getting hurt. They should use the Phil Kessel system. A hot dog a day keeps the doctor away.
If this was the Olympics, I suspect you'd see guys fighting through the injury to retain their spot. Or not. Seems curious.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 4, 2016 13:33:45 GMT -5
Hockey News article on the Team Canada replacements and line-up makeup. www.tsn.ca/talent/canada-opts-for-smarts-over-speed-with-world-cup-roster-1.560857
Canada opts for smarts over speed with World Cup roster
By Gary Lawless
Too slow or just smart enough.
The first could lead to another Turin flop, the other to where Canada is most comfortable in the hockey world. On top.
Comfortable is a word which gets tossed around a lot when it comes to what coach Mike Babcock likes in a player. Trust comes first. Speed and youth are further down the list.
Team Canada got old before our very eyes in Turin just two years after triumph at the 2004 World Cup. The 2006 Olympics saw Canada not only finish off the podium but way down in seventh. It was a disaster.
Team Canada GM Doug Armstrong added Corey Perry to his roster this week after an injury to Jeff Carter. That’s a major downgrade in speed. When Jamie Benn came up lame earlier this summer, Armstrong tapped Logan Couture. Again, a loss of speed.
The roster already includes diminished skaters Joe Thornton and Ryan Getzlaf.
Team Canada isn’t loaded with burners. The roster has been built on smarts rather than speed.
There’s an old Bob Gainey quote on the subject of an aging Guy Carbonneau which might best describe Team Canada thinking as it doggedly lumbers its way into the World Cup of Hockey.
Gainey was in the process of claiming Carbonneau from the St. Louis Blues roster when a pro scout claimed the centre could no longer skate.
“Yeah. But he knows where to stand,” uttered Gainey, who then watched Carbo play five more years for his Dallas Stars including a Stanley Cup championship run in 1999.
Armstrong would love to have experience, smarts, and speed on his roster. Who wouldn’t? But the World Cup format and Babcock’s preference for tested wisdom over untethered pace leaves Armstrong in questionable territory.
Maybe this team grinds its way through the tournament in grim, workmanlike efficiency and comes away the winner. Or perhaps it finds itself just a bit behind the play. Speed kills in today’s NHL. So does slow.
Babcock has a formula and Armstrong has given him the elements he prefers. Team Canada may plod a touch but that’s OK says the GM.
“It’s the North American rink and the NHL game. You don’t want to be the fastest guy to the wrong spot,” Armstrong told TSN on Saturday. “We’ve built this team with a premium on hockey IQ.”
In some respects, Armstrong and Babcock have been limited in their choices due to the prescence of Team North America in this event. Connor McDavid would certainly be on Team Canada if he were 24 or older. And now that Canada has begun mining for injury replacements, players such as Nathan MacKinnon and Mark Scheifele might enter the equation.
But with players 23 and under only eligible for Team North America, Armstrong says they don’t even cross his mind.
“Those are the rules of this tournament. Those players are out. So you don’t even think about them,” said Armstrong. “There are certainly some very good players on the under-23 roster. But there are lots of players in Canada that are 24 or older that give us excellent depth. Our depth is still very strong as a nation.”
Chemistry and commitment are also qualities Canada is banking on. Perry is an excellent example of this. The veteran went to the World Championship this spring and captained a championship squad. Still, even after winning a pair of gold medals on Babcock teams in Vancouver and Sochi, he didn’t get the happy phone call. Only after two injuries and just a month outside of NHL training camps did Armstrong ring him up.
Lots of players would have said no thanks. Not Perry. He’s a hockey hound and he’d go anywhere to play in an event of this type. Babcock will likely pair him with Getzlaf and the duo have had success at the highest levels both in the NHL and on the international scene for close to a decade. They’ve had magic. Team Canada is banking they still do.
That’s really the only question here for Canada. Can the bulk of this group crank it up one more time or should the roster have included younger forwards such as Taylor Hall and Ryan O’Reilly.
Will leaving P.K. Subban, Kris Letang, T.J. Brodie and Mark Giordano at home turn out to be a mistake?
Team Canada management certainly didn’t board the plane for Turin back in 2006 expecting to get run out of the rink. They had their plan and they believed. It just didn’t work out.
That’s what makes these events so nerve-wracking for those in power. If it works out, you’re a hero. If it doesn’t? A nation of second guessers will be ready to pounce. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 5, 2016 7:56:45 GMT -5
... 3rd pairing for Team Russia ...
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 5, 2016 8:02:19 GMT -5
... Seven Red Wings participating in the tournament ... |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 5, 2016 8:27:56 GMT -5
World Cup of Hockey: Krejci, Hertl, Gudas out for Czech Republic Non-NHL players named replacements
The Associated Press
Posted: Sep 04, 2016 10:17 AM ET Last Updated: Sep 05, 2016 9:00 AM ETThe Czech Republic added forward Michal Birner and defenceman Tomas Kundratek to its team for the forthcoming World Cup of Hockey to replace injured Tomas Hertl and Radko Gudas. more
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 5, 2016 15:37:33 GMT -5
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 5, 2016 15:39:18 GMT -5
... Team USA practice lines ...
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 5, 2016 15:45:11 GMT -5
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Post by Skilly on Sept 5, 2016 15:55:35 GMT -5
There is no way RNH should be on Team NA over Galchenyuk
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Post by seventeen on Sept 5, 2016 16:16:36 GMT -5
I agree, Skilly, and Drouin is another guy who shouldn't be there ahead of Chucky. RNH was practicing as a forward on the penalty kill, so that might have been a reason for choosing him but a far more likely reason is that Chiarelli is picking the guys and RNH is his man. Even if he cheats toward his own players, there's no reason for choosing Drouin over Chucky, especially for a wing position. That should be incentive for Chucky, though, to prove the 'experts' wrong.
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