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Post by seventeen on Jun 2, 2018 22:24:17 GMT -5
Main things I took out of that interview is that Timmins feels there's a top 11 in this draft and then it can go in any direction. Course, that doesn't mean his top 11 is the same as Carolina's top 11 or Minny's top 11 and so on, but it sounded like he felt there was a consensus. His hope was that when their first 2nd round pick comes along, their 12th rated player is still available. Could be. Individual teams' lists vary considerably and this year is especially volatile. The Habs also conduct some extensive pysochological questioning. Timmins didn't go into it a lot, but it sounded like one criteria they were very interesting in was a player's confidence level. If they're not confident, it hurts them. A lot of prospects are sent this questionnaire to complete during the season and then a Dr. Scott, the Habs' official scouting shrink, devises some questions to pose during the combine interview. As Timmins says, it's all designed to obtain as much information as possible. This might be new for the Habs, but I don't think it's new for other NHL clubs. I've heard of this before. Good to see Montreal adding it to their process though. But one has to be careful with that stuff. It CAN mislead you. I wonder what Phil Kessel's profile would have looked like? Or Subban's. Confident yes...but there would have been a ton of other flags.  . |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 3, 2018 0:03:09 GMT -5
My guess then is TT’s top 11 could look something like this (in no particular order after the top three):
Dahlin, Svechnikov, Zadina, Tkachuk, Dobson, Boqvist, Hughes, Kotkaniemi, Bouchard, Wahlstrom, and one of Smith/Farabee.
My sense of this draft is that there is a lot of variability after the middle of the first. TT said as much and was much more specific that he sees a top 11 as the top tier. That makes those early seconds really helpful, as kids will drop based on teams’ preferences from pick 12 onwards.
My biggest take away was that TT referenced “skill” a couple of times alongside the big emphasis on speed. I want our guy responsible for drafting looking at skill. Berg has avoided this word, but glad to see Trevor reinforcing it. I want guys that can play and not just grind it out.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 3, 2018 7:32:01 GMT -5
NHL Combine: Top centre
Kotkaniemi poses a dilemma for the Habs
If Montreal is intent on landing the Finnish forward, the team must be prepared to gamble. PAT HICKEY, MONTREAL GAZETTE Updated: June 2, 2018BUFFALO — The Montreal Canadiens are very interested in Finnish centre Jesperi Kotkaniemi, and that poses a dilemma for the team. Montreal will have the third pick in the opening round of the NHL draft on June 22 in Dallas. If they follow their time-honoured tradition of selecting the best player available, it’s not Kotkaniemi. While the Finn’s stock had risen since mid-season, most scouts rank him outside the top 10 although many regard him as the top centre in a draft dominated by high-end defencemen and wingers. The Canadiens’ interest in Kotkaniemi came into focus Saturday as 104 prospects went though a battery of tests at the NHL Combine in Buffalo. He revealed that the Canadiens were one of three teams which took him out for a steak dinner in the past week. Detroit and Chicago were the others. When a reporter noted that the Canadiens were interested in drafting him, he replied: “I hope so.” The interest in Kotkaniemi opens up some intriguing possibilities. If Montreal is intent on landing Kotkaniemi, they must be prepared to gamble. The easy but most risky solution would be to select Kotkamieni with the No. 3 pick. The downside to this approach is that Montreal may be passing on a high-scoring winger (Filip Zadina) or a potential stud defenceman (Noah Dobson or Adam Boqvist). The Canadiens have had only two top-five picks over the past three decades — Carey Price at No.5 in 2005 and Alex Galchenyuk at No. 3 in 2012 — and it’s important to get it right. ======================================================================= RELATED Canadiens’ prospective draft picks for 2018: Jesperi Kotkaniemi, centre Don’t expect Canadiens GM Marc Bergevin to trade No. 3 overall pickCanadiens’ prospective draft picks for 2018: Filip Zadina, left winger Canadiens’ prospective draft picks for 2018: Noah Dobson, defenceman ======================================================================= The second option is to use the No. 3 pick to trade down. The goal would be obtain an NHL-ready centre in return for the pick and select Kotkaniemi later in the first round. The risk in this move is that another team would have a shot at Kotkaniemi before the Canadiens made their pick. If you’re keeping track of those dinner reservations, the Canadiens aren’t the only team that feels Kokaniemi is undervalued. Detroit picks sixth overall and Chicago is at No. 8. Each of those teams also has some flexibility in terms of trades because they have a second pick later in the first round. In an interview with nhl.com earlier in the week, Montreal general manager Marc Bergevin appeared reluctant to trade the pick. But director of player personnel Trevor Timmins said Saturday that the Canadiens have the ability to move up or down in the draft because they have four second-round picks in addition to the No. 3 pick. Timmins was non-committal on the subject of steak dinners, saying: “We’re all vegetarians.” Montreal has struggled up the middle in recent years with Galchenyuk and Jonathan Drouin both proving they are better suited to playing on the wing. Ironically Kotkaniemi has spent the past seasons playing on the wing with Assat Pori in the SM-Liiga, the top league in Finland. “I played on the wing because I was young but my position is centre,” said the 17 year old. Kotkaniemi turned in a strong performance as a winger with 10 goals and 19 assists in 57 games against older players. He was Assat’s third-leading scorer. But Kotkaniemi’s stock took off when he played as the first-line centre on the Finnish team which won the World Under-18 Championship. He had three goals and six assists in nine games and set up Niklas Nordgren with the shorthanded winner in the gold-medal game against the United States. Kotkaniemi was the second-best player in the tournament behind U.S. centre Jack Hughes, who is projected to become the No. 1 overall pick in the 2019 draft. Kotkaniemi has two years remaining on his contract in Finland but there is an out clause if he lands a job in the NHL. He expressed confidence that he could play in the NHL next season if he gets the opportunity. He does need some work on his skating but that is one area which showed improvement over the past season. In addition to the work at this combine, Timmins said Montreal will invite 28 other payers to a combine on June 7 in Montreal and will also travel to Stockholm to assess 16 European players. phickey@postmedia.com Twitter: zababes1
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 3, 2018 23:26:27 GMT -5
We can only hope so. Time to focus on skill with so many picks this year. TT has been shifting that way the last few drafts.
Draft skill and speed, and then draft more skill and speed!
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Post by blny on Jun 4, 2018 6:40:50 GMT -5
Button throwing Barrett Hayton's name into the mix of guys Montreal should be looking at. The Greyhound player must have jumped up the standings late, because I don't remember his name in the top 10 as recently as March/April. Sub ppg centers in the CHL don't blow my skirt up. I'll concede that he was behind 2017 first round pick Morgan Frost, but that just means he wasn't up against the other team's best every night. thehockeywriters.com/barrett-hayton-2018-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/"skills aren't elite, but are good". "needs to improve first couple of steps". Sorry, that doesn't check the boxes of a #3 pick for me. That's a pick you make with assets acquired from trading Pacioretty. Button can extol the virtue of 'taking the player you like' and compare that to Kopitar in '05 all he likes. www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/two-top-end-centres-the-habs-should-consider-with-third-pick%7E1408900The bottom line is who's the better player? Ignore position and the pressure to draft based on it, especially with the depth of centers that will be available next year. If Pacioretty can't return a pick high enough to land the likes of Hayton, I don't think you're that far off if at all looking at Benoit-Olivier Groulx in Halifax. Groulx may have slipped out of the first, depending on where you look, but he had first round potential most of the year. Like Hayton, Groulx will no doubt be the #1 center on his junior team next year. That brings me to my next point. It's very unlikely imo that Hayton makes the jump to the NHL next year. To that end, I don't see the rush. Grab the bpa, which will be Zadina - who can make the jump. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 4, 2018 7:27:49 GMT -5
I take what The Hockey Writers say with a grain of salt ... unless they've brought in some high-end talent, they're basically a group of bloggers with a nice looking website ... when they need a writer for a specific team they'll canvass Twitter to try and land another blogger writer that way ... Craig Button is confusing ... I'm not sure if he actually believes in his oft-changing pecking orders or whether he's just trying to influence teams with his selections ... not a fan of either his or THW ...
Cheers.
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Post by blny on Jun 4, 2018 7:49:00 GMT -5
I take what The Hockey Writers say with a grain of salt ... unless they've brought in some high-end talent, they're basically a group of bloggers with a nice looking website ... when they need a writer for a specific team they'll canvass Twitter to try and land another blogger writer that way ... Craig Button is confusing ... I'm not sure if he actually believes in his oft-changing pecking orders or whether he's just trying to influence teams with his selections ... not a fan of either his or THW ... Cheers. Button will do a list of players ranked by skill and he'll also do a list based on what he thinks the teams will/should take. I think he's completely ignoring the talent gap here for the sake of stating where Montreal is the weakest. He's also ignoring the fact center depth in 2019 is much better. IMO, it's quite conceivable that a late first or early 2nd next year could net a center every bit as good or better. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 4, 2018 8:17:28 GMT -5
Zadarnowski: Tkachuk a realistic Habs' Draft targetHabs Eyes on the Prize's Andrew Zadarnowski joins the show to discuss the NHL Draft, the Stanley Cup Final and more. Audio link. Cheers.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 4, 2018 8:26:09 GMT -5
I take what The Hockey Writers say with a grain of salt ... unless they've brought in some high-end talent, they're basically a group of bloggers with a nice looking website ... when they need a writer for a specific team they'll canvass Twitter to try and land another blogger writer that way ... Craig Button is confusing ... I'm not sure if he actually believes in his oft-changing pecking orders or whether he's just trying to influence teams with his selections ... not a fan of either his or THW ... Cheers. Button will do a list of players ranked by skill and he'll also do a list based on what he thinks the teams will/should take. I think he's completely ignoring the talent gap here for the sake of stating where Montreal is the weakest. He's also ignoring the fact center depth in 2019 is much better. IMO, it's quite conceivable that a late first or early 2nd next year could net a center every bit as good or better. Not sure where the team will finish next season but it sounds like the 2019 draft is going to be a deep one ... not trying to be overly critical of Craig Button ... I guess he has his job to do, I just don't buy into it ... to be fair to THW, they remind me of what our board was doing back in the day (18 years ago?) ... a few of us were writing for HabsRus and that's where I see them ... Cheers. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 4, 2018 9:57:39 GMT -5
Hayton likely should not be in any conversation about a top ten pick. I just see too many other guys that most teams should like more than him. Does not make him a bad pick, just a bad pick with other guys still available.
He is part of that next group and will likely be somewhere in 11-15 or so though.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 4, 2018 11:09:57 GMT -5
^^^^^^
Yup.
I've constantly had differences of opinions with Button on some players. I wouldn't want him as head of my scouting department. He's not wrong on some players but seems quite wrong with others.
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Jun 4, 2018 15:16:53 GMT -5
Button will do a list of players ranked by skill and he'll also do a list based on what he thinks the teams will/should take. I think he's completely ignoring the talent gap here for the sake of stating where Montreal is the weakest. He's also ignoring the fact center depth in 2019 is much better. IMO, it's quite conceivable that a late first or early 2nd next year could net a center every bit as good or better. Not sure where the team will finish next season but it sounds like the 2019 draft is going to be a deep one ... not trying to be overly critical of Craig Button ... I guess he has his job to do, I just don't buy into it ... to be fair to THW, they remind me of what our board was doing back in the day (18 years ago?) ... a few of us were writing for HabsRus and that's where I see them ... Cheers. Now that Montreal has the #3 pick it opens options for the future. Picking Zadina they know they would be getting a good player and since they are not going to be a cup contender this year any trade involving Paciroetty could require a non-protected 1st round lottery pick in 2019 and don't worry about this season. They will get some good depth players with the number of 2018 picks they already have but then potentially have 2 good first round picks next year in a draft that is deeper at center. Five years from now we wont care if the #1 center came in 2018 or 2019. |
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Post by Skilly on Jun 4, 2018 16:15:04 GMT -5
Hickey says Montreal, Detroit and Chicago took Kotkaniemi out for steak .... Basu says it was Montreal, Detroit and Edmonton ... Ohhhh who to believe???
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Post by blny on Jun 6, 2018 5:32:45 GMT -5
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Post by franko on Jun 6, 2018 8:00:43 GMT -5
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Post by blny on Jun 6, 2018 8:17:59 GMT -5
I'm just reiterating that he tends to build two lists. One is a ranking based on talent. The other on team need, at which point he takes a stab at who he thinks teams should target. |
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 6, 2018 9:11:25 GMT -5
Best. Player. Available.
I don't like all this talk about Kotkaniemi "because we need a center". So what? Would you pass up a Patrick Laine to get the next Tomas Plekanec "because we need a center?" Ask yourself this; if Arizona had the third overall pick, or Buffalo, or Florida, or Colorado, or just about any other team, would Kotkaniemi be in the discussion? If the answer is "yes, he's a worthwhile 3rd overall pick" then fine. But if not...
Perhaps - or I should say I hope - this is what Timmins meant when he talked about "the best player five years from now". In other words, "let's not worry about what our team is going to look like next year, let's think five years down the road as to who the best player will be". Who will be the third best player to come out of this draft? If it's Zadina, or Kotkaniemi, or Tkachuk, or Hughes, or whoever, then fine, have faith in your convictions, make the pick, and take the media shots with good humour because you know you will be vindicated in the end. Don't get cute and stray from the plan just because you need a center next year.
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Post by jkr on Jun 6, 2018 9:58:54 GMT -5
If they don't take Zadina at #3 it won't matter to them what the team looks like in 5 years because they will probably be canned for not taking him.  |
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Post by blny on Jun 6, 2018 10:09:54 GMT -5
Best. Player. Available. I don't like all this talk about Kotkaniemi "because we need a center". So what? Would you pass up a Patrick Laine to get the next Tomas Plekanec "because we need a center?" That's the same drum I've been beating. I don't see any center in this first round, with maybe the Finn being the exception, being any better than Poehling. Would anyone draft Poehling ahead of Zadina this year? Nope. |
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Jun 6, 2018 10:42:50 GMT -5
Best. Player. Available. I don't like all this talk about Kotkaniemi "because we need a center". So what? Would you pass up a Patrick Laine to get the next Tomas Plekanec "because we need a center?" Ask yourself this; if Arizona had the third overall pick, or Buffalo, or Florida, or Colorado, or just about any other team, would Kotkaniemi be in the discussion? If the answer is "yes, he's a worthwhile 3rd overall pick" then fine. But if not... Perhaps - or I should say I hope - this is what Timmins meant when he talked about "the best player five years from now". In other words, "let's not worry about what our team is going to look like next year, let's think five years down the road as to who the best player will be". Who will be the third best player to come out of this draft? If it's Zadina, or Kotkaniemi, or Tkachuk, or Hughes, or whoever, then fine, have faith in your convictions, make the pick, and take the media shots with good humour because you know you will be vindicated in the end. Don't get cute and stray from the plan just because you need a center next year. I tend to think this is what Timmins was referring when he made that comment and don't think the Habs will be swayed to take the popular pick if they really feel who they select will be the better player in a few more years. I mentioned before but if they think Kotkaniemi will be the next Scheifele, Kopitar or Sakic, guys that were taken high but not the prize of that draft then we would all be happy with that outcome. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 6, 2018 13:08:18 GMT -5
If they don't take Zadina at #3 it won't matter to them what the team looks like in 5 years because they will probably be canned for not taking him. Not if Molson is giving Bergeron an 11 year plan to move up from 28th to 16th best team. |
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Post by folatre on Jun 6, 2018 13:33:59 GMT -5
For me picking third in a draft where the very top is very good means that Montreal must pick an offensive game changer. It is not good enough to pick a kid that profiles as a good two-way player. If I see a kid with a 60-70 percent chance of being a point a game sniper, I take him without hesitation over a more balanced player who is 80-85 percent likely to be a ceiling 60 point player.
Also, in a draft like this one sitting where the Habs are sitting, I would not start factoring in intangibles like leadership.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 7, 2018 16:18:12 GMT -5
Canadiens hosting combine
at Bell Sports ComplexTwenty-eight prospects will be on-site in Brossard on Thursday, before the Habs' brass heads to Stockholm for an overseas combine by Matt Cudzinowski @canadiensmtl / canadiens.com MONTREAL - The Canadiens continue their prep work ahead of the 2018 NHL Entry Draft by hosting a combine of their own at the Bell Sports Complex in Brossard on Thursday. Twenty-eight prospects will be in attendance for medicals, interviews, and fitness evaluations at the Habs' practice facility, including 13 players from the QMJHL. The event is not open to the public. None of the players on-site in Brossard were invited to participate in the 2018 NHL Scouting Combine last week in Buffalo. Some of the players attending may not be drafted at the 2018 NHL Entry Draft. In such cases, the Canadiens will have collected data that will aid in the future decision-making process of potentially signing these players as unrestricted free agents, whether it be to AHL or NHL contracts. On Friday, Trevor Timmins and his staff will travel to Stockholm, Sweden where they'll be staging another combine featuring 16 European prospects. The overseas event will be a first for the Canadiens. More ...
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 8, 2018 14:59:48 GMT -5
Best. Player. Available. I don't like all this talk about Kotkaniemi "because we need a center". So what? Would you pass up a Patrick Laine to get the next Tomas Plekanec "because we need a center?" Ask yourself this; if Arizona had the third overall pick, or Buffalo, or Florida, or Colorado, or just about any other team, would Kotkaniemi be in the discussion? If the answer is "yes, he's a worthwhile 3rd overall pick" then fine. But if not... Perhaps - or I should say I hope - this is what Timmins meant when he talked about "the best player five years from now". In other words, "let's not worry about what our team is going to look like next year, let's think five years down the road as to who the best player will be". Who will be the third best player to come out of this draft? If it's Zadina, or Kotkaniemi, or Tkachuk, or Hughes, or whoever, then fine, have faith in your convictions, make the pick, and take the media shots with good humour because you know you will be vindicated in the end. Don't get cute and stray from the plan just because you need a center next year. I haven't bought into the Jesperi Kotkaniemi hype ... mind you, he's played professional for several teams already and I dare say he'd have a good chance at developing into a starting NHL centre under Joel Bouchard's tutelage ... my gut feeling is that Brady Tkachuk will be a Hab on June 22nd ... he's listed as a C/LW and he might be required to fill a need if Max Pacioretty is dealt ... I'm not saying Filip Zadina wouldn't do the same, I just keep hearing Tkachuk's name more often right now ... that said, IMO, passing on either Zadina or Andrei Svechnikov would be a folly ... I liken Zadina to Martin Havlat and Svechnikov to Evgeni Malkin ... I honestly don't have a comparison for Tkachuk ... I'm not saying he's a bad player, but he's not in the top-3 ... edit: I'll also add that, if the Habs' philosophy has been to draft who they 'think' will be the better player in five years, then they haven't been too successful at that under Marc Bergevin's watch ... might be time to consider a different approach and take the best player available ... Cheers. |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 8, 2018 15:25:34 GMT -5
One thing Bergevin is very good at is misdirecting observers into thinking he's doing one thing while planning to do another. These rumours about Tkachuk make me think Berg will not be taking him. But that's just me speculating. There's been enough criticism about the lack of skill on the Habs and the lack of a centre and LHD that I think pick #3 boils down to Zadina, Kotkaniemi or Quinn Hughes. Not Tkachuk.
Two more weeks and we'll know.
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Post by Cranky on Jun 8, 2018 16:13:50 GMT -5
Here is a very interesting article and even more important, a new take on possibilities...if Svechnikov falls into our hands, a trade with Detroit for their 6th and 2nd rounder. I wouldn't do that, I would want Larkin and their second. At 21, Larkin is the young 1C that we need.....adn Detroit also needs. Mantha would be another option but he's 24 starting the season and it makes no sense to trade a 24 year old goal scorer of an 18 year old 40 goal scorer. There has to be a lot of add to do that. And one can never get away that the team that gets the best player wins. Svech has 40 goal scorer written all over him so I doubt we will see the drop....or Bergy trading him. Besides, Bergy can always trade with Detroit for his brother. Although the idea of having two Russian control the future of the Habs is a bit concerning. thehockeywriters.com/2018-nhl-mock-draft-round-1/ |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 8, 2018 19:34:24 GMT -5
One thing Bergevin is very good at is misdirecting observers into thinking he's doing one thing while planning to do another. These rumours about Tkachuk make me think Berg will not be taking him. But that's just me speculating. There's been enough criticism about the lack of skill on the Habs and the lack of a centre and LHD that I think pick #3 boils down to Zadina, Kotkaniemi or Quinn Hughes. Not Tkachuk. Two more weeks and we'll know. Bergy WILL pick Brady Tkachuk. Brady has been playing out of position and will be groomed as a big strong backup for Price. Niemi will be utilized as a left defenseman and powerplay specialist while Drouin centers a rejuvenated Brian Gionta and Gomez. It would be funnier if it wasn't so sad! |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 9, 2018 23:29:24 GMT -5
Odd to let an amateur scout go two weeks before the draft. He was an OHL scout for the team.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 10, 2018 1:25:52 GMT -5
I thought that was really weird too. Wonder what the background story on that is.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 10, 2018 12:56:57 GMT -5
We had the fourth pick and moved up to three. This year number one is special and two and three are close followed by the rest who are a notch lower. Why waste a pick on Tkachuk (not really a waste, more of a missed special opportunity) when Svetchnikov or Zadina are available.
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