|
|
Post by jkr on Nov 11, 2019 18:03:15 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Nov 11, 2019 18:05:40 GMT -5
McKenzie was speaking to this today. All the games Hutch played were in the second of back-to-backs, and the Leafs' skaters have been horrible on them. |
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Nov 11, 2019 18:09:29 GMT -5
McKenzie was speaking to this today. All the games Hutch played were in the second of back-to-backs, and the Leafs' skaters have been horrible on them. Babcock deserves some blame. He will not move off his plan - Andersen in game one of back to backs. The backup gets game 2. Doesn't matter who the team is, where they are playing or any other factor. But hey, he's the best coach in the world, right? |
|
|
|
Post by blny on Nov 11, 2019 18:32:05 GMT -5
McKenzie was speaking to this today. All the games Hutch played were in the second of back-to-backs, and the Leafs' skaters have been horrible on them. Babcock deserves some blame. He will not move off his plan - Andersen in game one of back to backs. The backup gets game 2. Doesn't matter who the team is, where they are playing or any other factor. But hey, he's the best coach in the world, right? Excellent point. Good friend of mine is a Leafs fan and he loathes Babcock. Thinks he's the most overrated coach in the game. |
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Nov 11, 2019 20:07:18 GMT -5
Hutchinson has not been good at all, though Babcock never gave the guy much of a chance to get any traction, always drawing the second game in those back to backs. In particular, that is a tough deal when the team in front of him is not willing/able to lock things down and grind out games. Toronto gives up a tonne of grade A scoring chances.
For comparison sake, Kinkaid has exactly the same save percentage as Hutchison, albeit in two fewer starts and their goals against numbers are close (4.35 Kinkaid and 4.44 Hutchinson).
Unless Toronto believes that Finnish guy with the Marlies is actually NHL material, I tend to think the Leafs management overreacted a little here.
|
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Nov 11, 2019 20:40:32 GMT -5
I think Dubas had to shoulder a lot of blame too for choosing Sparks over McElhenny & starting this cycle of bad backups.
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Nov 11, 2019 20:40:35 GMT -5
Hutchinson has not been good at all, though Babcock never gave the guy much of a chance to get any traction, always drawing the second game in those back to backs. In particular, that is a tough deal when the team in front of him is not willing/able to lock things down and grind out games. Toronto gives up a tonne of grade A scoring chances. For comparison sake, Kinkaid has exactly the same save percentage as Hutchison, albeit in two fewer starts and their goals against numbers are close (4.35 Kinkaid and 4.44 Hutchinson). Unless Toronto believes that Finnish guy with the Marlies is actually NHL material, I tend to think the Leafs management overreacted a little here. The McElhinney curse. |
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Nov 12, 2019 2:26:30 GMT -5
Hutch was bad. Now what, Dubas? No cap space, no legit backup. Oh, and now that Cherry is gone, is Andersen still the best in the world? Just askin’
|
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Nov 12, 2019 16:52:18 GMT -5
People.....listen up. Laffs are the Center Of the Universe...and if you don't agree, you are not.....ummm...an idiot? LOL!
The Laffs will be a textbook case of how to pay four guys all the money and try to fill in the rest with bargain bin specials.
I bet the outhouse (aka, tool shed) they will never win the cup with such a philosophy.
|
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Nov 12, 2019 19:03:36 GMT -5
Hutchinson has not been good at all, though Babcock never gave the guy much of a chance to get any traction, always drawing the second game in those back to backs. In particular, that is a tough deal when the team in front of him is not willing/able to lock things down and grind out games. Toronto gives up a tonne of grade A scoring chances. For comparison sake, Kinkaid has exactly the same save percentage as Hutchison, albeit in two fewer starts and their goals against numbers are close (4.35 Kinkaid and 4.44 Hutchinson). Unless Toronto believes that Finnish guy with the Marlies is actually NHL material, I tend to think the Leafs management overreacted a little here. They have to blame someone, they cant blame the coaches or the rich players... he was a scapegoat imo |
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Nov 14, 2019 10:24:20 GMT -5
Would you do Cayden Primeau and Karl Alzner for William Nylander?
Pros for Toronto:
* Clear ups their cap problem
* Gives them a guy who could probably play 20+ games in the NHL this season, and who will be the logical heir-apparent to Andersen, whose contract expires after next season. Perfect timing for them.
Pros for Montreal:
* Gets rid of the Alzner contract, which could be a big deal in the summer of 2021, when we face cap-ageddon. Tatar, Gallagher, Danault, Armia, and Petry are all potential UFAs that summer, and while we'll actually be ADDING salary in this deal, at least we will be adding it with an NHL player. Alzner's cap hit while in the minors is $3.55 million, and we are getting nothing from it. Swapping him for Nylander could be viewed as getting Nylander for about $3.5 million (Nylander's contract minus Alzner's).
* While you don't want to help out a divisional rival, eventually somebody will. Why not us? Isn't this what all this extra cap space is supposed to be used for? To take advantage of somebody in cap trouble?
* Gives us a legitimate top 6 winger. While Nylander's stats would suggest he is more of a playmaker than a goal-scorer he does shoot a lot. In the neighborhood of 200 a season, which would place behind him Gallagher on our team, but in the same neighborhood as Domi and Tatar. Not a pure sniper mind you, but still.
* Nylander just turned 23, and is signed long term.
Cons for Montreal:
* It gives a divisional rival much needed cap space, and as Napoleon said, never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake.
* I believe Primeau will be a very good, if not elite, #1 goalie in the NHL.
* Nylander may not be a perfect fit. For all the praise coming from the center of the universe his career highs are 22 goals and 61 points. Solid second line numbers, but not elite.
* While 200 shots a season is nothing to sneeze at, the ideal player on our team of playmakers would be somebody north of 250. If you got an elite asset to trade you might want to wait for a perfect fit, and not a "good enough" fit.
* William Nylander at $6.9 million means Max Domi gets $7.5 million.
What say you?
|
|
|
|
Post by frozone on Nov 14, 2019 10:40:43 GMT -5
Would you do Cayden Primeau and Karl Alzner for William Nylander? Pros for Toronto: * Clear ups their cap problem * Gives them a guy who could probably play 20+ games in the NHL this season, and who will be the logical heir-apparent to Andersen, whose contract expires after next season. Perfect timing for them. Pros for Montreal:* Gets rid of the Alzner contract, which could be a big deal in the summer of 2021, when we face cap-ageddon. Tatar, Gallagher, Danault, Armia, and Petry are all potential UFAs that summer, and while we'll actually be ADDING salary in this deal, at least we will be adding it with an NHL player. * While you don't want to help out a divisional rival, eventually somebody will. Why not us? * Gives us a legitimate top 6 winger. While Nylander's stats would suggest he is more of a playmaker than a goal-scorer he does shoot a lot. In the neighborhood of 200 a season, which would place behind him Gallagher on our team, but in the same neighborhood as Domi and Tatar. Not a pure sniper mind you, but still. * Nylander just turned 23, and is signed long term. Cons for Montreal:* It gives a divisional rival much needed cap space, and as Napoleon said, never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake. * I believe Primeau will be a very good, if not elite, #1 goalie in the NHL. * Nylander may not be a perfect fit. For all the praise coming from the center of the universe his career highs are 22 goals and 61 points. Solid second line numbers, but not elite. * While 200 shots a season is nothing to sneeze at, the ideal player on our team of playmakers would be somebody north of 250. If you got an elite asset to trade you might want to wait for a perfect fit, and not a "good enough" fit. * William Nylander at $6.9 million means Max Domi gets $7.5 million. What say you? I say no. Not because we lose the trade. Au contraire, we win that trade value-wise. Nylander just isn't a top 6 winger that I would target. For all of his skill and flash, he's the opposite of clutch. He's more likely to lose the game for you at the worst possible time than he is to deliver when your team really needs it. We already have Drouin who has regularly struggled to fit into the gameplan, and I'm not thrilled about acquiring version 2.0. That being said, you've laid the groundwork for an interesting 3-team trade. I'm sure Nylander can be swapped for a good return with a 3rd party. |
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Nov 14, 2019 11:00:51 GMT -5
I say no. Not because we lose the trade. Au contraire, we win that trade value-wise. Nylander just isn't a top 6 winger that I would target. For all of his skill and flash, he's the opposite of clutch. He's more likely to lose the game for you at the worst possible time than he is to deliver when your team really needs it. We already have Drouin who has regularly struggled to fit into the gameplan, and I'm not thrilled about acquiring version 2.0. That being said, you've laid the groundwork for an interesting 3-team trade. I'm sure Nylander can be swapped for a good return with a 3rd party. Fair enough. I'm not a big Nylander fan either (and I'm a huge Primeau fan), but there are not many teams who have the combination of being in cap trouble, who need a young, potential #1 goalie, AND who are in a position to part with a young, top six forward (cost controlled to boot). The three-way trade idea is an interesting possibility, that I had not thought of. But of course it gets infinitely more complex when you start doing that. |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 14, 2019 11:15:51 GMT -5
Would you do Cayden Primeau and Karl Alzner for William Nylander? Pros for Toronto: * Clear ups their cap problem * Gives them a guy who could probably play 20+ games in the NHL this season, and who will be the logical heir-apparent to Andersen, whose contract expires after next season. Perfect timing for them. Pros for Montreal:* Gets rid of the Alzner contract, which could be a big deal in the summer of 2021, when we face cap-ageddon. Tatar, Gallagher, Danault, Armia, and Petry are all potential UFAs that summer, and while we'll actually be ADDING salary in this deal, at least we will be adding it with an NHL player. Alzner's cap hit while in the minors is $3.55 million, and we are getting nothing from it. Swapping him for Nylander could be viewed as getting Nylander for about $3.5 million (Nylander's contract minus Alzner's). * While you don't want to help out a divisional rival, eventually somebody will. Why not us? Isn't this what all this extra cap space is supposed to be used for? To take advantage of somebody in cap trouble? * Gives us a legitimate top 6 winger. While Nylander's stats would suggest he is more of a playmaker than a goal-scorer he does shoot a lot. In the neighborhood of 200 a season, which would place behind him Gallagher on our team, but in the same neighborhood as Domi and Tatar. Not a pure sniper mind you, but still. * Nylander just turned 23, and is signed long term. Cons for Montreal:* It gives a divisional rival much needed cap space, and as Napoleon said, never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake. * I believe Primeau will be a very good, if not elite, #1 goalie in the NHL. * Nylander may not be a perfect fit. For all the praise coming from the center of the universe his career highs are 22 goals and 61 points. Solid second line numbers, but not elite. * While 200 shots a season is nothing to sneeze at, the ideal player on our team of playmakers would be somebody north of 250. If you got an elite asset to trade you might want to wait for a perfect fit, and not a "good enough" fit. * William Nylander at $6.9 million means Max Domi gets $7.5 million. What say you? |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 14, 2019 12:12:48 GMT -5
Would you do Cayden Primeau and Karl Alzner for William Nylander? Pros for Toronto: * Clear ups their cap problem * Gives them a guy who could probably play 20+ games in the NHL this season, and who will be the logical heir-apparent to Andersen, whose contract expires after next season. Perfect timing for them. Pros for Montreal:* Gets rid of the Alzner contract, which could be a big deal in the summer of 2021, when we face cap-ageddon. Tatar, Gallagher, Danault, Armia, and Petry are all potential UFAs that summer, and while we'll actually be ADDING salary in this deal, at least we will be adding it with an NHL player. Alzner's cap hit while in the minors is $3.55 million, and we are getting nothing from it. Swapping him for Nylander could be viewed as getting Nylander for about $3.5 million (Nylander's contract minus Alzner's). * While you don't want to help out a divisional rival, eventually somebody will. Why not us? Isn't this what all this extra cap space is supposed to be used for? To take advantage of somebody in cap trouble? * Gives us a legitimate top 6 winger. While Nylander's stats would suggest he is more of a playmaker than a goal-scorer he does shoot a lot. In the neighborhood of 200 a season, which would place behind him Gallagher on our team, but in the same neighborhood as Domi and Tatar. Not a pure sniper mind you, but still. * Nylander just turned 23, and is signed long term. Cons for Montreal:* It gives a divisional rival much needed cap space, and as Napoleon said, never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake. * I believe Primeau will be a very good, if not elite, #1 goalie in the NHL. * Nylander may not be a perfect fit. For all the praise coming from the center of the universe his career highs are 22 goals and 61 points. Solid second line numbers, but not elite. * While 200 shots a season is nothing to sneeze at, the ideal player on our team of playmakers would be somebody north of 250. If you got an elite asset to trade you might want to wait for a perfect fit, and not a "good enough" fit. * William Nylander at $6.9 million means Max Domi gets $7.5 million. What say you? Like the Habs, the Leafs problems aren't in goal, their main problem is (still) the defence corps ... to validate that I remembered what Don Cherry said in that "( Frederick Anderson) faces the MOST shots in the league" ... so I looked it up and Cherry was wrong ... the goaltenders who faced the most shots in the league, in the 2018-19 season were (in order) Connor Hellebuyck, Anderson, and Carey Price* ... fast-forward to the 2019-20 season and all three are in the top-5 * in the same category ... having said that, while I respect William Nylander's talent, I don't want to help the Leafs sort out their defence problems ... they have cap issues, yes, but I'd let Kyle Dubas sort that out and if he can't, it might be entertaining to follow the latest, greatest controversy sweeping through Leafs Nation ... besides, Cayden Fleury is the only goaltender we have in the system who looks like the heir-apparent to Price ... moving him means finding another hotshot goaltender as an eventual replacement ... anyway, all of that said, I don't have a counterproposal for you, but I do have Capfriendly open and there are a number of teams looking for cap relief and some of them are out west ... I won't leave you hanging and I'll get back to you if/when I can suggest a solution ... Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Nov 14, 2019 12:16:56 GMT -5
I say no. Not because we lose the trade. Au contraire, we win that trade value-wise. Nylander just isn't a top 6 winger that I would target. For all of his skill and flash, he's the opposite of clutch. He's more likely to lose the game for you at the worst possible time than he is to deliver when your team really needs it. We already have Drouin who has regularly struggled to fit into the gameplan, and I'm not thrilled about acquiring version 2.0. That being said, you've laid the groundwork for an interesting 3-team trade. I'm sure Nylander can be swapped for a good return with a 3rd party. Fair enough. I'm not a big Nylander fan either (and I'm a huge Primeau fan), but there are not many teams who have the combination of being in cap trouble, who need a young, potential #1 goalie, AND who are in a position to part with a young, top six forward (cost controlled to boot). The three-way trade idea is an interesting possibility, that I had not thought of. But of course it gets infinitely more complex when you start doing that. I'd see if you could get a couple of top prospect from the Bruins... that would kill Leaf fans if Nylander goes to the Bs and becomes a Leaf killer |
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Nov 14, 2019 12:39:04 GMT -5
I'd see if you could get a couple of top prospect from the Bruins... that would kill Leaf fans if Nylander goes to the Bs and becomes a Leaf killer The Bruins have cap issues of their own, and couldn't take Nylander without also sending a lot of salary back. We'd have to take David Backes in any deal... |
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Nov 14, 2019 13:02:50 GMT -5
Babcock deserves some blame. He will not move off his plan - Andersen in game one of back to backs. The backup gets game 2. Doesn't matter who the team is, where they are playing or any other factor. But hey, he's the best coach in the world, right? Excellent point. Good friend of mine is a Leafs fan and he loathes Babcock. Thinks he's the most overrated coach in the game. If you can find it, check out Mike Commodore’s uncensored take on Babcock. Audio clip from a podcast/radio interview. It was posted online this past summer. |
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Nov 14, 2019 13:31:12 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Nov 14, 2019 13:38:18 GMT -5
Excellent point. Good friend of mine is a Leafs fan and he loathes Babcock. Thinks he's the most overrated coach in the game. If you can find it, check out Mike Commodore’s uncensored take on Babcock. Audio clip from a podcast/radio interview. It was posted online this past summer. I've heard pieces of it iirc. Commie pulls no punches. |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Nov 14, 2019 14:39:47 GMT -5
Would you do Cayden Primeau and Karl Alzner for William Nylander? What say you? only if he can play left d, which is a more pressing concern than another 2nd line C/W |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 14, 2019 15:01:20 GMT -5
As per CapFriendly, the Flyers currently have $989,444 * in cap space ... his name has come up before on our boards and I think Shayne Gostisbehere could probably help Montreal shore up the left side of defence corps ... he's had the one great year, 13-52-65, but he hasn't come close to that kind of offence since ... his cap hit is $4.5 million/year until 2022-23, while Montreal has $8,256,830 * in cap space as of now ... this scenario isn't the most ideal trade for Philly but they need more breathing room than they have now ... Josh Brook would give them an up-and-coming blue-liner who's still developing in the AHL, but he has the potential to replace Gostisbehere in the future ... as for Paul Byron, he's an excellent leader, don't get me wrong, but Montreal has already proven that they can win without him ... here's the starting point for MTL/PHI ... Scenario 1| To Montreal | | To Philadelphia |
| | | | Shayne Gostisbehere* |
| Paul Byron* |
|
| Josh Brook |
|
| 2021 2nd |
Another team I looked at was Arizona ... they're at the top of the "cap-ageddon" heap ... Jakob Chychrun is an impact LHD who Arizona probably wouldn't move, just the same, but what the heck, see below ... as with Philly, they wouldn't be freeing up as much cap space as they'd probably like, especially with the deal I'm proposing, but the prospects being offered up would be intriguing ... note, that I'd start off by offering them a 2nd in lieu of Jacob Olofsson ... Scenario 2
| To Montreal | | To Arizona |
| | | | Jakob Chychrun* |
| Josh Brook |
| | Jacob Olofsson |
|
| Artturi Lehkonen* |
|
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Nov 14, 2019 15:27:40 GMT -5
* I believe Primeau will be a very good, if not elite, #1 goalie in the NHL. Shirley you jest......because posts like these make me look under the fridge fo hidden cameras. How old is Price? 22? 25? 27? 29? 31? 33? I'm asking because I don't remember......and might answer your question. |
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Nov 14, 2019 16:41:33 GMT -5
Price is 32 which is why I wouldn't let Primeau go. Bergevin needs a succession plan now.
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Nov 14, 2019 17:01:20 GMT -5
Primeau is untouchable imo. I'm not a big fan of Ghost. He's a defensive liability. With Weber and Petry over thirty, and Juulsen a question mark, I'm not comfortable moving our best rhd prospect. That said, I don't think the Flyers make the Byron-centered deal.
|
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Nov 14, 2019 20:26:22 GMT -5
I'd post the clip, but there's quite a bit of cursing. YouTube search: audio: mike babcock absolutely destroyedIt's almost 24 minutes. Commodore also asserts that Babcock scratched Mike Modano late in the season just so Modano wouldn't reach 1500 GP. Modano retired with 1499. |
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Nov 14, 2019 20:34:08 GMT -5
I'd post the clip, but there's quite a bit of cursing. YouTube search: audio: mike babcock absolutely destroyedIt's almost 24 minutes. Commodore also asserts that Babcock scratched Mike Modano late in the season just so Modano wouldn't reach 1500 GP. Modano retired with 1499. Wow..if true then Babs is a dick |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 14, 2019 20:51:08 GMT -5
* I believe Primeau will be a very good, if not elite, #1 goalie in the NHL. Shirley  ... near gagged on my coffee ... |
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Nov 14, 2019 20:51:10 GMT -5
I'd post the clip, but there's quite a bit of cursing. YouTube search: audio: mike babcock absolutely destroyedIt's almost 24 minutes. Commodore also asserts that Babcock scratched Mike Modano late in the season just so Modano wouldn't reach 1500 GP. Modano retired with 1499. Wow..if true then Babs is a dick He should have signed a deal with a team just to play that one game; make it a big middle finger to Babcock. |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 14, 2019 20:54:38 GMT -5
Mike Commodore says what's on his mind no ands, ifs, or buts ... I follow him on Twitter, especially around the trade deadline ... he's nailed a few deals on the head ...
Cheers.
|
|
:quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/archetype/6F6VF25GCFF2HFJCOITRJSGNPE.jpg)
... near gagged on my coffee ...