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Post by Bobs_HABit on Feb 1, 2020 11:30:31 GMT -5
Woo hoo
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 1, 2020 11:55:33 GMT -5
Another Berg era head-scratcher.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 1, 2020 11:55:33 GMT -5
The team has suddenly gotten older, duller and much less interesting. I can't wait to see the Cousins, Thompson, Weal ad campaign.
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Post by Anardil1 on Feb 1, 2020 12:32:19 GMT -5
At least he'll get to play important minutes on a team that actually has something to play for. Optically, it's yet another black mark on the Molson/Bergevin/Timmins 3-headed monster, but in the long run, it could turn out to be the best for KK and the team.
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Post by mikeg on Feb 1, 2020 12:34:50 GMT -5
What a joke. He should have been in Finland or Laval from the start but holy crap... the mismanagement of assets here is beyond laughable.
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Post by drkcloud on Feb 1, 2020 13:21:54 GMT -5
In Laval he can practice playing with the 2nd rate scrubs he failed to be successful with in Montreal.
Poehling would be next but he's already the 4th line winger they envision him to be. He must be if he's not a prolific scorer with Thompson and Weise.
Now we can get Jordan Weal the top minutes MB envisioned when he plucked him from the scrap heap.
At least here on the west coast we can watch 7th overall pick Quinn Hughes be developed properly. He was immediately placed in the position they envisioned for him. Top pairing.. QB the powerplay. He made some mistakes but was immediately coached up and sent back out there. He's responded and earned a trip to the all-star game and is in the running for the Canucks second straight Calder trophy. PLAYER DEVELOPMENT.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 1, 2020 13:34:15 GMT -5
In Laval he can practice playing with the 2nd rate scrubs he failed to be successful with in Montreal. Poehling would be next but he's already the 4th line winger they envision him to be. He must be if he's not a prolific scorer with Thompson and Weise. Now we can get Jordan Weal the top minutes MB envisioned when he plucked him from the scrap heap. At least here on the west coast we can watch 7th overall pick Quinn Hughes be developed properly. He was immediately placed in the position they envisioned for him. Top pairing.. QB the powerplay. He made some mistakes but was immediately coached up and sent back out there. He's responded and earned a trip to the all-star game and is in the running for the Canucks second straight Calder trophy. PLAYER DEVELOPMENT. And.....he's made some really awful mistakes. Turnovers that have turned into goals, etc. But they didn't demote him to the 3rd pairing. They kept playing him. His flashes of brilliance are now becoming more commonplace and consistent. It's all in the mentality of management. Berg and Julien don't accept defensive mistakes (unless a veteran commits them). Rookies get punished....early and often. Suzuki has escaped that despite his gaffes and is rewarding them. Why him and not KK or POehling? That's a deeper question, of course.
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Post by UberCranky on Feb 1, 2020 13:55:37 GMT -5
Bbinz mental flatulence....
The development beating will continue until the young ones learn.
Bombing rookie careers will help with their development.
He may not like the medicine, but it won't kill him.
It is soooooo important to Bbinz that we push for a playoff spot until we are mathematically dead. So sacrificing Kk learning and career is secondary to that.
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Post by UberCranky on Feb 1, 2020 14:02:04 GMT -5
And.....he's made some really awful mistakes. Turnovers that have turned into goals, etc. But they didn't demote him to the 3rd pairing. They kept playing him. His flashes of brilliance are now becoming more commonplace and consistent. It's all in the mentality of management. Berg and Julien don't accept defensive mistakes (unless a veteran commits them). Rookies get punished....early and often. Suzuki has escaped that despite his gaffes and is rewarding them. Why him and not KK or POehling? That's a deeper question, of course. I'm a firm believer of pushing people to the next level and training. That's why I believe that players should be pushed to the next highest level and....HELPED BY COACHES. Somebody has to explain to me why we have so many coaches if their job isn't to train players? Are they there to display their Goodwill fashion statements? Their brilliance at behind the bench runway poses? Flatulence inspired faces? The Habs management is one giant.....wtf clown show.
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Post by Skilly on Feb 1, 2020 14:14:49 GMT -5
Demote The KKid , and punish the Domi .... Good luck finding your game Max, with your new wingers Cousins and Weal
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Post by drkcloud on Feb 1, 2020 14:51:00 GMT -5
Hopefully Poehling finds his game watching Weise from the press box. Healthy scratch
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Post by Tankdriver on Feb 1, 2020 15:21:36 GMT -5
Poehling is the next to go down once Drouin and Byron are back.
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 1, 2020 15:57:18 GMT -5
Hughes scored the game winner... but with CJ and MB, Hughes would have to earn everything and be benched if he made a mistake... this team will always be a middling waste of time... but geoffrey's getting richer.. that's what's important...
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 1, 2020 17:44:39 GMT -5
So JK gets sent down and he has 6 goals and 2 assists and has had injury issues and almost nil PP time... The great Nick Cousins, with loads of PP and more top line minutes than JK has 7 goals and 10 assists... um... something is wrong here and it's spelled Claude Julien and Marc Bergevin...
I'm ok with JK going down, it's better for him to be working with a modern coach rather than a dinosaur... I look forward to Payday going down and getting the same benefit if working with Bouchard.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 2, 2020 0:18:31 GMT -5
Honestly, I have been wanting Fleury, KK and Poehling to be sent down to get meaningful games in, good ice time, and push Laval to the playoffs. They won’t get playoff experience in the Bell Centre for a while.
I am glad Suzuki has broken through the wall (so far). But then again, so has Weise. Duh.
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Post by Skilly on Feb 2, 2020 13:21:29 GMT -5
Shots fired across the bow
After last nights game with Laval, Kotkaniemi was interviewed and stated that his game with Laval was his favourite game of the year as it was nice to have a coach show confidence in him
My whole beef with how Montreal handles their prospects is that they never give them a chance in the role they were supposedly drafted for. Bergevin stated on National TV that they felt Kotkaniemi was the first line center of the future. They had to draft a first line Center when one was available because it’s too hard (wah wah wah) to trade for one. Yet Kotkaniemi has zero shifts in 2 seasons on that top line. I’m starting to wonder if their is some unwritten rule in the Habs management handbook, that you have to be at least 20 and spent 200 games on the third line before getting any shot.
This team could very well ruin Kotkaniemi, if they haven’t already. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that maybe they want him as a third liner to ensure his next contract is team friendly. This kid could very well just go home to Finland/ KHL and make just as much ...
Yet they acquire Suzuki, publicly state they think they now have their 1-2 punch down the middle for years to come, (Suzuki is the second liner of the future) and pretty much give him a chance a quarter of the way through the season ... makes no sense.
They all rave at his stats ...which are pretty much the same as Kotkaniemi got from the third line.
And year two Kotkaniemi is rewarded with Cousins and Weal. And the media is now getting on this “he didn’t come to camp ready, was out of shape BS” ... wasn’t there news reports Kotkaniemi lost body fat and bulked up last off season.
This team is so frustrating to cheer for... more so to watch.
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Post by habsorbed on Feb 2, 2020 13:43:25 GMT -5
Skilly, where you getting the "shots fired" from. I would love to see it! A fight between KK and CJ or MB would be amazing. Pretty sure I know who most fans would be supporting. #OutWithTheOld
Interesting media going on about KK's fitness - wonder if that's management speaking notes. My concern this whole season is that KK worked too hard on bulking up . There's no question he's stronger. He no longer gets thrown around like a rag doll and is actually crushing some opponents. Problem is, IMHO, he bulked up too much and it effected his coordination and skills. Seen it many times with athletes I've played with. You can't just lift weights and get more muscle without it affecting other aspects of your physiology; particularly as a kid who is growing into his body. Yes you can achieve your goal of getting stronger but it impacts your dexterity and your coordination. And for KK as a skilled player his skills should have been the #1 priority. So the big question for me is who encouraged, recommended, demanded KK to bulk up. It is hard to believe it was done without some management oversight. If Habs weren't monitoring this then they are more incompetent and negligent than I even thought.
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Post by jkr on Feb 2, 2020 13:48:40 GMT -5
Skilly, your comments about the media trouble me. It seems like other than Brendan Kelly, the rest of these people are drinking the kool-aid. No one asks tough questions. Can't wait for Engel' s next tweet blaming the demotion on the player.
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 2, 2020 13:55:51 GMT -5
Skilly, your comments about the media trouble me. It seems like other than Brendan Kelly, the rest of these people are drinking the kool-aid. No one asks tough questions. Can't wait for Engel' s next tweet blaming the demotion on the player. The English media in Montreal, much like the fans are sheep... Brendan Kelly and the morning guys on TSN690 criticize the Habs management... rest are a bunch of pussywillows
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 2, 2020 14:26:45 GMT -5
Shots fired across the bow After last nights game with Laval, Kotkaniemi was interviewed and stated that his game with Laval was his favourite game of the year as it was nice to have a coach show confidence in him My whole beef with how Montreal handles their prospects is that they never give them a chance in the role they were supposedly drafted for. Bergevin stated on National TV that they felt Kotkaniemi was the first line center of the future. They had to draft a first line Center when one was available because it’s too hard (wah wah wah) to trade for one. Yet Kotkaniemi has zero shifts in 2 seasons on that top line. I’m starting to wonder if their is some unwritten rule in the Habs management handbook, that you have to be at least 20 and spent 200 games on the third line before getting any shot. This team could very well ruin Kotkaniemi, if they haven’t already. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that maybe they want him as a third liner to ensure his next contract is team friendly. This kid could very well just go home to Finland/ KHL and make just as much ... Yet they acquire Suzuki, publicly state they think they now have their 1-2 punch down the middle for years to come, (Suzuki is the second liner of the future) and pretty much give him a chance a quarter of the way through the season ... makes no sense. They all rave at his stats ...which are pretty much the same as Kotkaniemi got from the third line. And year two Kotkaniemi is rewarded with Cousins and Weal. And the media is now getting on this “he didn’t come to camp ready, was out of shape BS” ... wasn’t there news reports Kotkaniemi lost body fat and bulked up last off season. This team is so frustrating to cheer for... more so to watch. Here is a link to JKs statement referenced by Skilly.... www.habseyesontheprize.com/ahl-laval-rocket/2020/2/2/21118813/jesperi-kotkaniemi-montreal-canadiens-laval-rocket-development-habs-prospectThe first thing that I thought of when I read this is that CJ seems fine when vets do something wrong...
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Post by Tankdriver on Feb 2, 2020 14:30:42 GMT -5
I completely agree with you Skilly. Matthews, McDavid, Eichel, MacKinnon, Barkov were all drafted as the #1 center of their respective teams and were thrust to the first line position to grow and succeed. Only in Montreal that they take a prime prospect and play them on third and 4th lines and no power play time. We are ruining Poehling too IMHO.
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 2, 2020 14:39:40 GMT -5
I completely agree with you Skilly. Matthews, McDavid, Eichel, MacKinnon, Barkov were all drafted as the #1 center of their respective teams and were thrust to the first line position to grow and succeed. Only in Montreal that they take a prime prospect and play them on third and 4th lines and no power play time. We are ruining Poehling too IMHO. This has been that standard operating procedure... I'm curious if they would do this if lightning struck and they won the draft lottery and drafted LaFreniere... if he would have to earn ice time and play with Weal and Cousins or would he be with Tatar and bGal right away? Would LaFreniere have to learn how to play a 200 foot game? Would he be benched if he made a couple of mistakes...
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Post by Skilly on Feb 2, 2020 15:50:12 GMT -5
Skilly, where you getting the "shots fired" from. I would love to see it! A fight between KK and CJ or MB would be amazing. Pretty sure I know who most fans would be supporting. #OutWithTheOld Interesting media going on about KK's fitness - wonder if that's management speaking notes. My concern this whole season is that KK worked too hard on bulking up . There's no question he's stronger. He no longer gets thrown around like a rag doll and is actually crushing some opponents. Problem is, IMHO, he bulked up too much and it effected his coordination and skills. Seen it many times with athletes I've played with. You can't just lift weights and get more muscle without it affecting other aspects of your physiology; particularly as a kid who is growing into his body. Yes you can achieve your goal of getting stronger but it impacts your dexterity and your coordination. And for KK as a skilled player his skills should have been the #1 priority. So the big question for me is who encouraged, recommended, demanded KK to bulk up. It is hard to believe it was done without some management oversight. If Habs weren't monitoring this then they are more incompetent and negligent than I even thought. There was an interview posted on TVAsports ... Bouchard’s was in French where he said KK made a few mistakes Julien wouldn’t like, and then KK’s was in English where he stated it was his favourite game as it was good to see the coach show confidence in him
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 5, 2020 14:28:50 GMT -5
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 5, 2020 14:51:36 GMT -5
Every player makes various degrees of mistakes every game. But not every player is punished equally for the glaring errors.
I don't know how other franchises operate, but I think the Berg era has heaped more pressure on our supposed young guns by being over-critical/punitive.
Confidence is a fragile thing, especially for 18-20-year-olds.
IMO.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 5, 2020 17:15:52 GMT -5
A lot of these young players have been stars and have played a lot of ice time in the past leading up to the NHL. It is a big adjustment to get very limited bottom six ice time and still feel good about your game when you are playing a lot less and in a different role.
I think him getting top ice time in Laval is the best right now as young kids need to play to develop. If they make mistakes, tell them what to fix, and throw them the heck back out there. This will definitely happen much more in Laval than in Montreal.
Poehling won't be far behind, IMO, as both Drouin and Bryon will need a roster spot when they are healthy. He will get much better ice time in Laval for sure.
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Post by folatre on Feb 5, 2020 20:02:03 GMT -5
I did not see the logic of keeping a barely 18 year old in the NHL who was clearly not a generational talent who was clearly not yet a man physically, and who had no experience in North America. Montreal’s management made that rash decision because Bergevin had constructed such a poor roster that they broke camp in 2018 with virtually no NHL centres. Preseason games do not prove anything. The real NHL players play those games media pila so they don’t get hurt, which makes it really hard to draw any meaningful conclusions about how kids look. And I hate to say it, but coming off a bottom five league finish in 2017-18, I think Bergevin may have been under pressure from Molson to create a buzz that would get fans excited about coming to the Bell Centre to see the great young hope.
Kotkaniemi has not played good hockey this season, though in fairness there were injuries and when healthy he has almost exclusively played with less than stellar wingers.
I still subscribe to the philosophy that if you think a highly skilled kid drafted third overall is ready physically and mentally for the NHL then you have to play him top six minutes and with quality linemates. If you judge that he not ready then he should be back in Europe for his age 18-19 seasons. For me Montreal misjudged his readiness and consequently utilized him the way you would utilize a 22 year old who profiles to have a third line ceiling. Regarding his comments in Laval, it sounds like a kid thinking aloud and thus being a little more honest and less guarded than most professional hockey players are in such situations. Though seriously, if Bergevin and Julien have their feathers ruffled over those comments (I am not implying they necessarily do), it would add credence to the hypothesis that both of them are probably beyond their expiration dates.
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Feb 6, 2020 6:57:26 GMT -5
One of the problems when the Oilers were drafting kids like Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Eberle and so on was they put them all in the line up too early and expected too much. They never learned how to win or learned how to play without the NHL pressure. Those kids are now veteran players and most have only seen the playoffs once or twice in their career. I always thought they should have put them all in the AHL for a couple of years and let them grow together and when ready bring them up together as a unit.
I see Montreal making the same mistake having KK, Poehling, Suzuki and Fleury in the lineup this season. KK did great last season as an 18 year old and Suzuki is doing great this year but spending time together in Laval would not have been a bad thing either. Mete was a fluke to be picked at 100 and make the team but he struggled and his time in Laval seemed to really help him. I don't see how sending kids so young to the minors is a bad thing where they can play major roles. Maybe then when a Poehling or KK is called up they are ready for a 2nd line role instead of the 4th.
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Post by folatre on Feb 6, 2020 7:07:12 GMT -5
I agree with most everything you said, Habitual. And I would add that when we are talking about the case of a highly skilled European it is also a perfectly logical option for an organization to allow the one or two additional development years happen back home.
Vancouver (and Benning of all people, jeje) got it right by leaving Pettersson in Sweden after his draft year. In fact, Pettersson played his first NHL game when he was already within one month of his 20th birthday.
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Post by jkr on Feb 6, 2020 8:46:35 GMT -5
And perhaps Suzuki is more comfortable & doing well because he went back to junior last season & dominated in the playoffs, almost winning a Memorial Cup. Didn't management learn anything from that?
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