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Post by franko on Jun 8, 2020 8:12:41 GMT -5
Hypothetically, let's say we win the lottery and move up to #2, and Ottawa falls to #4 and #5. nice laugh to start the day . . . and let's face it, they are few and far between these days. you realize, of course, that in all likelihood the Habs are going to draft 12th regardless of anything that happens? the Forum Ghosts (not ours here) are still unforgiving/ |
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Post by folatre on Jun 8, 2020 8:57:47 GMT -5
Franko, jeje, I bring good news and bad news. Montreal cannot fall to the #12 slot; however, it can tumble to the #16 hole by beating Pittsburgh.
Probability wise, #8 and #9 are by far the likeliest spots for Montreal to pick.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 8, 2020 13:26:55 GMT -5
The 2021 draft is by all accounts heavy at the top on d-men. Clarke, Lambos, Hughes and Hreschuk are all good bets to go in the top eight. So even if Dorion focuses on procuring the needed elite offensive help this draft, for me the Sens are a lock to be relatively brutal in the standings next season and thus he can shift toward getting more high end defensive answers next summer. I think best D-prospect you never mentioned. But forget his name now. Power? The top D names that I see most often are Clarke, Power, Edvinsson, and an AJHL kid Cuelemans. Hughes and Lambos are right there too. A very good top end D class at this point. |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 8, 2020 13:57:46 GMT -5
If we get #2, I'd trade that for 3 and 4 or 3 and Brannstrom. I don''t have quite the high opinion of Byfield as you do. I'm suspicious of big guys in juniour being able to muscle their way, which disappears in the NHL. Byfield obviously has other skills, but some of the guys available aren't that much worse, if at all. If you can get say Perfetti and Rossi, or (Perfetti or Rossi) and Brannstrom, that makes your 2022/23 Habs really dangerous. Ah, those bingo balls.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 8, 2020 14:05:00 GMT -5
If we get #2, I'd trade that for 3 and 4 or 3 and Brannstrom. I don''t have quite the high opinion of Byfield as you do. I'm suspicious of big guys in juniour being able to muscle their way, which disappears in the NHL. Byfield obviously has other skills, but some of the guys available aren't that much worse, if at all. If you can get say Perfetti and Rossi, or (Perfetti or Rossi) and Brannstrom, that makes your 2022/23 Habs really dangerous. Ah, those bingo balls. If we get #2, I would pick Stutzle! Not sure Ottawa would do a two for one deal after Lafrenière is off the table. No incremental gain for giving up two top end kids for just one. |
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Post by folatre on Jun 8, 2020 18:05:33 GMT -5
If this were the McDavid-Eichel draft, they would be dying to give up two picks in the top five for #2. However, in this draft, Lafreniere is the only one that looks like a sure-fire star.
I am torn on Byfield. I love the size and the potential. Yet who knows, there have always been giant physical kids in major junior hockey who put up numbers and never quite became superstars in the NHL. I may certainly be wrong, but I think it is just as likely that Byfield has a nice Keith Primeau type career than a Malkin or Modano type career.
But hey, I would love for Bergevin to have the problem of figuring out who to pick at second overall or for that matter at third.
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Post by folatre on Jun 9, 2020 16:45:37 GMT -5
Good call, NW. I forgot about Power. What's the deal with Canadian kids wanting to play in the USHL? And now he's going to the NCAA, nothing wrong with that but I wonder if it will raise more questions about his ceiling than it will answer. I'm not saying he is a Komisarek or that he is not a future Pronger or Hedman, but I am just not sure how playing 30 games during his age 18 season will optimize development if his goal is to be playing hockey in the NHL at age 19 or 20.
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 10, 2020 7:45:14 GMT -5
I think best D-prospect you never mentioned. But forget his name now. Power? The top D names that I see most often are Clarke, Power, Edvinsson, and an AJHL kid Cuelemans. Hughes and Lambos are right there too. A very good top end D class at this point. Yup, I think it was Power. I read an early scouting report on him. Sounded like could be the guy? |
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 10, 2020 7:47:33 GMT -5
If this were the McDavid-Eichel draft, they would be dying to give up two picks in the top five for #2. However, in this draft, Lafreniere is the only one that looks like a sure-fire star. I am torn on Byfield. I love the size and the potential. Yet who knows, there have always been giant physical kids in major junior hockey who put up numbers and never quite became superstars in the NHL. I may certainly be wrong, but I think it is just as likely that Byfield has a nice Keith Primeau type career than a Malkin or Modano type career. But hey, I would love for Bergevin to have the problem of figuring out who to pick at second overall or for that matter at third. I agree with you on Byfield. What I seen never really blew me away. His size and skating could be giving him quite an advantage. |
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 10, 2020 7:50:20 GMT -5
If we get #2, I'd trade that for 3 and 4 or 3 and Brannstrom. I don''t have quite the high opinion of Byfield as you do. I'm suspicious of big guys in juniour being able to muscle their way, which disappears in the NHL. Byfield obviously has other skills, but some of the guys available aren't that much worse, if at all. If you can get say Perfetti and Rossi, or (Perfetti or Rossi) and Brannstrom, that makes your 2022/23 Habs really dangerous. Ah, those bingo balls. Ah, but would you trade #1 overall for Brannstrom and #3? Trading Strutzle for Rossi and Brannstrom is an favorable deal. |
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Post by folatre on Jun 11, 2020 18:18:20 GMT -5
If by some miracle, Lafreniere falls into Montreal's lap, it would be insane from a PR standpoint to trade him to Ottawa and likely also inadvisable from a hockey driven analysis.
If Montreal held the third overall and Dorion wanted to give up the #5 and Brannstrom to move up, sure that would make a lot of sense.
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Draft '20
Jun 12, 2020 17:21:00 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by GNick99 on Jun 12, 2020 17:21:00 GMT -5
If by some miracle, Lafreniere falls into Montreal's lap, it would be insane from a PR standpoint to trade him to Ottawa and likely also inadvisable from a hockey driven analysis. If Montreal held the third overall and Dorion wanted to give up the #5 and Brannstrom to move up, sure that would make a lot of sense. I probably would make the deal. If scouts say Brannstrom is as good as you fellows say. It would take more but probably could get deal done. Insist on Isles pick. I think Rossi be 2nd or 3rd best player in draft. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 12, 2020 22:03:39 GMT -5
If by some miracle, Lafreniere falls into Montreal's lap, it would be insane from a PR standpoint to trade him to Ottawa and likely also inadvisable from a hockey driven analysis. If Montreal held the third overall and Dorion wanted to give up the #5 and Brannstrom to move up, sure that would make a lot of sense. I probably would make the deal. If scouts say Brannstrom is as good as you fellows say. It would take more but probably could get deal done. Insist on Isles pick. I think Rossi be 2nd or 3rd best player in draft. Molson could trade down, Lafreniere for Byfield and ca$h. Molson values his cash! If Molson gets the #3 overall he could go off the charts again and pick the central scouting #10 and play him as a rookie to justify the choice. |
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Post by folatre on Jun 13, 2020 10:54:34 GMT -5
Jeje, stop it LA. I may have a nightmare that the Habs win the #3 pick and select Lundell or Holloway.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 13, 2020 13:31:01 GMT -5
If we get #2, I'd trade that for 3 and 4 or 3 and Brannstrom. I don''t have quite the high opinion of Byfield as you do. I'm suspicious of big guys in juniour being able to muscle their way, which disappears in the NHL. Byfield obviously has other skills, but some of the guys available aren't that much worse, if at all. If you can get say Perfetti and Rossi, or (Perfetti or Rossi) and Brannstrom, that makes your 2022/23 Habs really dangerous. Ah, those bingo balls. Ah, but would you trade #1 overall for Brannstrom and #3? Trading Strutzle for Rossi and Brannstrom is an favorable deal. No. I might trade the #1 for #'s 3, 4 and Brannstrom. But probably not. There's a sizeable enough gap between Lafreniere and the others and besides....he's a Quebe kid so there's benefits to that. |
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 16, 2020 7:27:33 GMT -5
Ah, but would you trade #1 overall for Brannstrom and #3? Trading Strutzle for Rossi and Brannstrom is an favorable deal. No. I might trade the #1 for #'s 3, 4 and Brannstrom. But probably not. There's a sizeable enough gap between Lafreniere and the others and besides....he's a Quebe kid so there's benefits to that. I am higher on AL than most scouting reports. I see better chance at franchise player than most scouting sources. It would take colossal offer but I could move him. Rossi, I see as Quinn Hughes of this draft. A guy who likely go 6-8th but be 2-3 best player to come out of the draft. I like a center more than a winger also. If I could get a young, #1 defenseman to trade down 2 slots I would do it. Like to get a late 1st in deal. There are a couply guys in back of first round who are underrated. Mysak, Bourque, Jarvis. |
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Post by folatre on Jun 17, 2020 17:42:20 GMT -5
Man, looking at the seven teams with their names actually in next Friday's Draft Lottery, I cannot help but notice that five belong to the teams in the Eastern Conference (Detroit, Ottawa x 2, New Jersey, Buffalo).
Probabilities (and past history with this format) suggest that there is approximately a one in four chance that one of the top three slots could go to a "placeholder." Obviously this is what we hope for since that keeps the dream of landing Lafreniere alive.
But setting dreams aside for a second, from a pragmatic perspective I would not be upset at all if Anaheim, Los Angeles, and Detroit snag the top three spots.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 17, 2020 18:12:06 GMT -5
It's not very uplifting to see so many of your direct competitors with better chances at good players than you. Sigh. At some point, of course, you want the 31st pick.
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 18, 2020 6:05:01 GMT -5
Do you think Raymond has any chance of being there at 8? Noticed some videos of him, the speed and skill are high end. Looked better as season went on. Playing in mens league at 17. Says something. Generally easier for them to make jump to NHL. Also, I take it he has been in Sweden. They never went in lockdown, imagine he has been skating everyday. Got the jump on many draftees. Solid chance he makes NHL soon.
Only 5'10 and 170lbs though? Plus, a winger. Last thing we need. Small wingers are generally easy to find. Examples be Gallagher, Tatar, Drouin, etc... How much better can he be than them? Not much I would say, maybe a 30-35 goal scorer. Where skill and size are harder to find. A top 2 center is near impossible to find. This high pick maybe should concertrate on that first. IDK.
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 18, 2020 9:19:13 GMT -5
Do you think Raymond has any chance of being there at 8? Noticed some videos of him, the speed and skill are high end. Looked better as season went on. Playing in mens league at 17. Says something. Generally easier for them to make jump to NHL. Also, I take it he has been in Sweden. They never went in lockdown, imagine he has been skating everyday. Got the jump on many draftees. Solid chance he makes NHL soon. Only 5'10 and 170lbs though? Plus, a winger. Last thing we need. Small wingers are generally easy to find. Examples be Gallagher, Tatar, Drouin, etc... How much better can he be than them? Not much I would say, maybe a 30-35 goal scorer. Where skill and size are harder to find. A top 2 center is near impossible to find. This high pick maybe should concertrate on that first. IDK. , with an outside-the-box ranking, has Raymond at 3rd. Most sites that I have seen have him in the 4th to 6th range, so I guess anything is possible. Button, in his March rankings, had Raymond 9th. Eliteprospects also has Stutzle at 8th, which is pretty far down considering some think he could challenge for 2nd. |
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Post by folatre on Jun 18, 2020 10:11:28 GMT -5
The Hockey News has him #4. Sign me up, I would be ecstatic to pick up a talent like Raymond. I have heard quite a few hockey people make the Marner comparison.
However, despite the fact that he did indeed play against men this season, I believe that he would clearly be best served by staying in Sweden for 2020-21.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 18, 2020 10:35:58 GMT -5
Do you think Raymond has any chance of being there at 8? Noticed some videos of him, the speed and skill are high end. Looked better as season went on. Playing in mens league at 17. Says something. Generally easier for them to make jump to NHL. Also, I take it he has been in Sweden. They never went in lockdown, imagine he has been skating everyday. Got the jump on many draftees. Solid chance he makes NHL soon. Only 5'10 and 170lbs though? Plus, a winger. Last thing we need. Small wingers are generally easy to find. Examples be Gallagher, Tatar, Drouin, etc... How much better can he be than them? Not much I would say, maybe a 30-35 goal scorer. Where skill and size are harder to find. A top 2 center is near impossible to find. This high pick maybe should concertrate on that first. IDK. A chance? Absolutely. A big chance? Probably not. I think there are only four guys that we will not get a sniff at with an 8th pick: Lafrenière, Stutzle, Byfield and Drysdale. I include Drysdale in there because this draft is very void of top end defenders. One of those top teams will want a D and/or have Drysdale as their BPA. In fact, it is the lack of top end defenders that could possibly drop Raymond out of a top 5 or 6 spot, where he should likely go. The next four forwards can all be ordered many different ways depending on your team’s draft board: Rossi, Raymond, Holtz, Perfetti. One team could mix things up if they decide to go D, and it is possible. The best “next” candidate is Sanderson. I don’t expect a big run of defenders at this point as the forward class is still much better value, but there will be later in the first and into the early second. And if a team picks Askarov ahead of us, look out...we will have a tough choice to make. That makes our #39 and 40 picks so interesting. There will be good players left, and so much depends on the run of players leading up to those picks. Lots of pretty interchangeable parts depending on your projection of players and your draft board. Those draft boards will vary in order quite a bit by pick 39 and 40. |
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Post by folatre on Jun 18, 2020 19:32:48 GMT -5
I agree. Drysdale may not go top four because that could depend on how the order shakes out in the Lottery, but he is definitely not going to be there at #8. I just cannot envision any scenario where he falls that far.
Rossi or Raymond could fall to #8, it would not shock me though it would feel like a mild surprise.
One of Perfetti or Holtz seem likely to be there at #8 because there is certainly a chance that a particular team could have Sanderson, Askarov, or Quinn higher on their board.
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 20, 2020 8:03:03 GMT -5
Do you think Raymond has any chance of being there at 8? Noticed some videos of him, the speed and skill are high end. Looked better as season went on. Playing in mens league at 17. Says something. Generally easier for them to make jump to NHL. Also, I take it he has been in Sweden. They never went in lockdown, imagine he has been skating everyday. Got the jump on many draftees. Solid chance he makes NHL soon. Only 5'10 and 170lbs though? Plus, a winger. Last thing we need. Small wingers are generally easy to find. Examples be Gallagher, Tatar, Drouin, etc... How much better can he be than them? Not much I would say, maybe a 30-35 goal scorer. Where skill and size are harder to find. A top 2 center is near impossible to find. This high pick maybe should concertrate on that first. IDK. A chance? Absolutely. A big chance? Probably not. I think there are only four guys that we will not get a sniff at with an 8th pick: Lafrenière, Stutzle, Byfield and Drysdale. I include Drysdale in there because this draft is very void of top end defenders. One of those top teams will want a D and/or have Drysdale as their BPA. In fact, it is the lack of top end defenders that could possibly drop Raymond out of a top 5 or 6 spot, where he should likely go. The next four forwards can all be ordered many different ways depending on your team’s draft board: Rossi, Raymond, Holtz, Perfetti. One team could mix things up if they decide to go D, and it is possible. The best “next” candidate is Sanderson. I don’t expect a big run of defenders at this point as the forward class is still much better value, but there will be later in the first and into the early second. And if a team picks Askarov ahead of us, look out...we will have a tough choice to make. That makes our #39 and 40 picks so interesting. There will be good players left, and so much depends on the run of players leading up to those picks. Lots of pretty interchangeable parts depending on your projection of players and your draft board. Those draft boards will vary in order quite a bit by pick 39 and 40. Noticed Raymond has great speed and hands. His ability to process thought at a high speed must be off the chart. So hard to find but size is his downfall. Where Rossi is an inch shorter but 10 pounds heavier. So, imagine a lower center of gravity. Also, a center, which gives Rossi 2 things better in comparison. Rossi hands are off the chart and his hockey sense is hall of fame caliber. But his skating, could bring him down. Not sure how it will respond to NHL. His skating is not bad, but not a speed demon neither. Doesn't seem to have that explosive first step. Compared to a Raymond. Or a Byfield for that matter. |
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Post by folatre on Jun 20, 2020 9:32:27 GMT -5
I see Rossi the same way, GNick. Rossi is strong and feisty, plus he is just about the oldest kid in this draft class. And it does not hurt that he is accustomed to the North American game. I would not be surprised to see him jump straight into the NHL.
Raymond will need time to mature and ready himself for the next step. Marner went #4 overall and went back to Junior. Rushing a kid like Raymond based on a couple of meaningless preseason games would be mistake.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 20, 2020 9:57:45 GMT -5
Raymond needs to get regular shifts in first before jumping into the NHL. He gets limited ice time in the SHL, which is so common with players so young...even the ultra skilled ones like Raymond. Give him a full year playing regular shifts and showing he can be consistent while withstanding the rigours of a tough schedule, then look out. The timing of the draft will likely play in the favour of this happening anyway. The SHL starts in mid September. By the time the NHL wraps up this season and holds a draft, these kids will be in full swing with their club teams. From a development point of view, most should be left as is especially since likely only Stutzle could step into a NHL lineup right away (and he will be picked by a team with a crappy NHL lineup).
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Post by folatre on Jun 20, 2020 18:40:02 GMT -5
Yeah, given the fact the leagues in Europe will playing hockey well before those of North America, basically it seems like a no brainer for the European kids to return to the clubs where they played last season.
It would not surprise me if Rossi signed to play in Switzerland next season.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 20, 2020 20:48:07 GMT -5
Giving up a shot at a top 8 draft pick for a long shot at a play in for a playoff spot is not the way to build through the draft.
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Post by folatre on Jun 21, 2020 17:49:37 GMT -5
LA, I share your sentiment that Montreal seems to be stuck in the middle with no definable direction.
However, if this play-in round ever occurs, Crosby and Malkin are going to have a big say in where Montreal ultimately drafts. It is not a lock by any means, but I feel relatively confident that the Habs are picking 8th or 9th.
I will be surprised and irked if the Habs are picking #16 or #10. I will be shocked and elated if the Habs are picking #1, #2, #3, #28, or #31.
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 22, 2020 5:53:11 GMT -5
I see Rossi the same way, GNick. Rossi is strong and feisty, plus he is just about the oldest kid in this draft class. And it does not hurt that he is accustomed to the North American game. I would not be surprised to see him jump straight into the NHL. Raymond will need time to mature and ready himself for the next step. Marner went #4 overall and went back to Junior. Rushing a kid like Raymond based on a couple of meaningless preseason games would be mistake. If Rossi is there at 8, be great for this team. His offensive ability is off the chart. But I think Perfetti is most likely available at 8. See Rossi as moderate chance of being still on the board. Holtz and Raymond I see as slim chance. Holtz I see as best pure sniper in the draft. With goals being in high demand I see chance he could go as high at 3rd. Looking at his stats, he has the highest shooting accuracy in draft. Playing in mens league, for Djurgardens he scored 35-9-7-16. With an additional 7-3-2-5 in WJC. Not bad stats. Considering he is 18. He has average size, 6' 183lbs. Not small like many of other offensive players available at top of draft. Should give him an edge to go higher. He is also RW, which I like more than LW in an offensive player. If I noticed these going thru the stats you know the NHL teams see it also. They go much deeper than me. |
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