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Post by UberCranky on Apr 6, 2020 12:42:16 GMT -5
If Montreal could trade for Mantha and offer sheet Dubois they give up a bunch of picks but get back young players and have enough depth that I wouldn't see that as an obstacle. This would be the deepest the Habs would have been at center in a long time Domi(25)-Dubios (22)-Gallagher (27) Tartar (30)-Suzuki(20)-Mantha Drouin (25)- Danualt (27)-KK (20) Leknohen (24)- Evans (23)- Armia (26) Chairot - Weber Petry - Kulak Mete - Romanov/Borowiecki (UFA) Brook/Furey/Juulsen PK Subban once the Devils buy him out (just kidding) Price Halak or Talbot (UFA) Huh? We agree again? That first line would have all kinds of trunculance. Serious trunculance. League leading trunculance. TrunculanceRus. As for Subban, you know what, he's not worn down, just lost interest. He's capable of coming back and playing like a top 4...so I would ring his door bell and have a chat. A 5 million top 4 Subban along with Dubois and Mantha will makes us contenders.
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 6, 2020 19:09:55 GMT -5
If Montreal could trade for Mantha and offer sheet Dubois they give up a bunch of picks but get back young players and have enough depth that I wouldn't see that as an obstacle. This would be the deepest the Habs would have been at center in a long time Domi(25)-Dubios (22)-Gallagher (27) Tartar (30)-Suzuki(20)-Mantha Drouin (25)- Danualt (27)-KK (20) Leknohen (24)- Evans (23)- Armia (26) Chairot - Weber Petry - Kulak Mete - Romanov/Borowiecki (UFA) Brook/Furey/Juulsen PK Subban once the Devils buy him out (just kidding) Price Halak or Talbot (UFA) Huh? We agree again? That first line would have all kinds of trunculance. Serious trunculance. League leading trunculance. TrunculanceRus. As for Subban, you know what, he's not worn down, just lost interest. He's capable of coming back and playing like a top 4...so I would ring his door bell and have a chat. A 5 million top 4 Subban along with Dubois and Mantha will makes us contenders. No way PK comes back as long as MB is around
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Post by GNick99 on Apr 7, 2020 15:55:13 GMT -5
Rfa’s are expensive in picks. Better to chase free agents like Tavares when they are available. As long as Bergevin is here we are not attractive to free agents I agree....don't like the RFA route. They always match. Instead throw the money at a Krug or Pietrangelo. Overpay yes, but you get the player
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Post by GNick99 on Apr 7, 2020 16:01:25 GMT -5
If Montreal could trade for Mantha and offer sheet Dubois they give up a bunch of picks but get back young players and have enough depth that I wouldn't see that as an obstacle. This would be the deepest the Habs would have been at center in a long time Domi(25)-Dubios (22)-Gallagher (27) Tartar (30)-Suzuki(20)-Mantha Drouin (25)- Danualt (27)-KK (20) Leknohen (24)- Evans (23)- Armia (26) Chairot - Weber Petry - Kulak Mete - Romanov/Borowiecki (UFA) Brook/Furey/Juulsen PK Subban once the Devils buy him out (just kidding) Price Halak or Talbot (UFA) Huh? We agree again? That first line would have all kinds of trunculance. Serious trunculance. League leading trunculance. TrunculanceRus. As for Subban, you know what, he's not worn down, just lost interest. He's capable of coming back and playing like a top 4...so I would ring his door bell and have a chat. A 5 million top 4 Subban along with Dubois and Mantha will makes us contenders. I agree on Subban. I was all for the trade. I never liked his defense and once Carey went down that season, Subban was a train wreck. Pair him with a Gill or Markov type, to cover up his mistakes defensively. Put him in front of a Price, still some left in Subban under right circumstances. Only maybe dealt him to Edmonton back in '16. They were often fleeced back then. You know Hall was part of it plus much more. If they were willing to part with him for Larsson.
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Apr 8, 2020 6:06:05 GMT -5
Huh? We agree again? That first line would have all kinds of trunculance. Serious trunculance. League leading trunculance. TrunculanceRus. As for Subban, you know what, he's not worn down, just lost interest. He's capable of coming back and playing like a top 4...so I would ring his door bell and have a chat. A 5 million top 4 Subban along with Dubois and Mantha will makes us contenders. I agree on Subban. I was all for the trade. I never liked his defense and once Carey went down that season, Subban was a train wreck. Pair him with a Gill or Markov type, to cover up his mistakes defensively. Put him in front of a Price, still some left in Subban under right circumstances. Only maybe dealt him to Edmonton back in '16. They were often fleeced back then. You know Hall was part of it plus much more. If they were willing to part with him for Larsson. I really was kidding about Subban, I wouldn't touch him with Cedno Chara's stick.
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Post by GNick99 on Apr 9, 2020 9:01:52 GMT -5
I agree on Subban. I was all for the trade. I never liked his defense and once Carey went down that season, Subban was a train wreck. Pair him with a Gill or Markov type, to cover up his mistakes defensively. Put him in front of a Price, still some left in Subban under right circumstances. Only maybe dealt him to Edmonton back in '16. They were often fleeced back then. You know Hall was part of it plus much more. If they were willing to part with him for Larsson. I really was kidding about Subban, I wouldn't touch him with Cedno Chara's stick. the contract or his attitude? If the deal is right I would bring him back. Price behind him to cover up his mistakes, pair him with LD strong on positioning. I think there is chance Richardson could get some mileage out of Subban.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 9, 2020 16:03:34 GMT -5
Subban never conformed to stupidity. But he always showed up in big games. I'd guess that if you have a coach who appreciated players' input and wasn't a safety first at all costs type of guy, (kind of like Nick Nurse of the Raptors) he'd have no trouble at all with Subban and would probably get a lot out of him.
PK's defense was always better than people thought and his offense was never a question. A lot depends on his health, of course. An injured Subban is as useful as any injured player. That may have been Weber's issue last year. Weber's stats until Christmas (37 games) were 11-18-29, which fostered the legitimate Norris Trophy conversations. After Christmas (28 games), he was 4-3-7. From .78 ppg to .25 ppg. His ankle, or whatever it was, no doubt had some effect but thats quite the fall-off, and I wonder if it wasn't simply that the league, as it always does, ratchets up a notch at a couple of times during the year. Christmas is one, after the all-star game another and then the playoffs. Subban was actually scoring more, late. He had 4 assists in his last 5 games. The coaching change may have helped.
Whatever, Subban's not coming back so that's not an issue, but Weber's drop off is. If the injury didn't hamper him that much, Bergevin has another concern. Petry is a very good RHD, but if Weber can't pull 2nd pair duties, all the leadership skills in the world aren't going to help the Habs make the playoffs (next year).
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Post by folatre on Apr 9, 2020 21:07:16 GMT -5
I would love to get Barzal or Dubois. That would be the dream scenario.
At the opposite end of the spectrum, for me the depressing scenario is total status quo with the hope that continuity could get this group on the playoff bubble. Between the dream and the depressing, I would say my hope is simply that management acts with a strategic eye to the future. In other words, 1) be selective about which guys approaching 30 or already 30+ should be given 4 or 5 or 6 six year contracts; 2) get two or three heavier guys up front who can play some hockey; and 3) focus on proven NHLers in the sweet spot 23-26 age range because thanks to blown drafts that is precisely the age group the Habs have too few of and could really use not only next season but also in the next few seasons.
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Post by GNick99 on Apr 10, 2020 7:42:12 GMT -5
Subban never conformed to stupidity. But he always showed up in big games. I'd guess that if you have a coach who appreciated players' input and wasn't a safety first at all costs type of guy, (kind of like Nick Nurse of the Raptors) he'd have no trouble at all with Subban and would probably get a lot out of him. PK's defense was always better than people thought and his offense was never a question. A lot depends on his health, of course. An injured Subban is as useful as any injured player. That may have been Weber's issue last year. Weber's stats until Christmas (37 games) were 11-18-29, which fostered the legitimate Norris Trophy conversations. After Christmas (28 games), he was 4-3-7. From .78 ppg to .25 ppg. His ankle, or whatever it was, no doubt had some effect but thats quite the fall-off, and I wonder if it wasn't simply that the league, as it always does, ratchets up a notch at a couple of times during the year. Christmas is one, after the all-star game another and then the playoffs. Subban was actually scoring more, late. He had 4 assists in his last 5 games. The coaching change may have helped. Whatever, Subban's not coming back so that's not an issue, but Weber's drop off is. If the injury didn't hamper him that much, Bergevin has another concern. Petry is a very good RHD, but if Weber can't pull 2nd pair duties, all the leadership skills in the world aren't going to help the Habs make the playoffs (next year). I would take a shot with Subban. It was very unpopular trade when he left. At 30 he shouldn't he done. Should still be in prime years. He can't read the cycle, turns puck over too often trying to do too much and occassionally takes himself out of position delivering highlight type hits. But in front of Price and with right pairing many of his faults can be fixed. Price is strong on the puck it helped Subban. Pair Subban with Gill or Markov he was a Norris candidate. Paired with a Emelin or Beaulieu, Subban was a nightmare. I think it is the situation Subban is in with Jersey. Weber injury, those kind of guys usually improve positioning. They evolve with experience as they age. High hockey IQ, Markov be an example. Not that concerned with his injury. Should still be 2 or 3 solid years left in Weber. Then maybe 2 so-so years. He could play until he is 38, maybe 40.
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Apr 10, 2020 9:30:31 GMT -5
[/quote]I would take a shot with Subban. It was very unpopular trade when he left. At 30 he shouldn't he done. Should still be in prime years. He can't read the cycle, turns puck over too often trying to do too much and occassionally takes himself out of position delivering highlight type hits. But in front of Price and with right pairing many of his faults can be fixed. Price is strong on the puck it helped Subban. Pair Subban with Gill or Markov he was a Norris candidate. Paired with a Emelin or Beaulieu, Subban was a nightmare. I think it is the situation Subban is in with Jersey.
Weber injury, those kind of guys usually improve positioning. They evolve with experience as they age. High hockey IQ, Markov be an example. Not that concerned with his injury. Should still be 2 or 3 solid years left in Weber. Then maybe 2 so-so years. He could play until he is 38, maybe 40.[/quote]
This is a very good description of Subban's game but watching him in New Jersey he doesn't seem to have learned with age and at this point with injuries included his skills are probably less. PK is basically the age now as when the Habs got Weber (who at the time many said was too old) but doesn't have the hockey intelligence that Markov and Weber have to allow them to still be a value to the team in their mid-thirties. I also don't think Subban would be able to adapt mentally to being a third line pairing guy in a couple of years if his skill set degraded more. Montreal also doesn't have a guy to pair with him to cover his weaknesses.
If anyone would sign him after a buyout I think it would be the Leafs in hopes of throwing spaghetti against the wall and hoping it sticks.
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Post by GNick99 on Apr 11, 2020 2:25:39 GMT -5
I would take a shot with Subban. It was very unpopular trade when he left. At 30 he shouldn't he done. Should still be in prime years. He can't read the cycle, turns puck over too often trying to do too much and occassionally takes himself out of position delivering highlight type hits. But in front of Price and with right pairing many of his faults can be fixed. Price is strong on the puck it helped Subban. Pair Subban with Gill or Markov he was a Norris candidate. Paired with a Emelin or Beaulieu, Subban was a nightmare. I think it is the situation Subban is in with Jersey. Weber injury, those kind of guys usually improve positioning. They evolve with experience as they age. High hockey IQ, Markov be an example. Not that concerned with his injury. Should still be 2 or 3 solid years left in Weber. Then maybe 2 so-so years. He could play until he is 38, maybe 40.[/quote] This is a very good description of Subban's game but watching him in New Jersey he doesn't seem to have learned with age and at this point with injuries included his skills are probably less. PK is basically the age now as when the Habs got Weber (who at the time many said was too old) but doesn't have the hockey intelligence that Markov and Weber have to allow them to still be a value to the team in their mid-thirties. I also don't think Subban would be able to adapt mentally to being a third line pairing guy in a couple of years if his skill set degraded more. Montreal also doesn't have a guy to pair with him to cover his weaknesses. If anyone would sign him after a buyout I think it would be the Leafs in hopes of throwing spaghetti against the wall and hoping it sticks. [/quote] Subban is only 2 years away from 3rd in Norris voting. The 2018 Norris. At 30 he isn't done. His career hasn't fell off the cliff like that. He's took no major injuries. Subban is in wrong situation. Subban does have an attitude though. Big contract also. There are risks. If Richardson and Weber think they can do something with him? That is big if?? I would offer Alzner even uo. Actually saves us caproom. Let's me trade Petry now for big haul. Petry will fall off pretty soon. He be 33 in December. He is not smart defensively. I have seen him out of position constantly. Relies on speed, quickness and skating to move the puck and create offense. Which Generally is first to go as they age. I would not sign Petry long term. But tradd him for big haul instead. Like to get late first as part of deal, draft Barron or Perrault.
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 11, 2020 10:06:01 GMT -5
This is a very good description of Subban's game but watching him in New Jersey he doesn't seem to have learned with age and at this point with injuries included his skills are probably less. PK is basically the age now as when the Habs got Weber (who at the time many said was too old) but doesn't have the hockey intelligence that Markov and Weber have to allow them to still be a value to the team in their mid-thirties. I also don't think Subban would be able to adapt mentally to being a third line pairing guy in a couple of years if his skill set degraded more. Montreal also doesn't have a guy to pair with him to cover his weaknesses. If anyone would sign him after a buyout I think it would be the Leafs in hopes of throwing spaghetti against the wall and hoping it sticks. Subban is only 2 years away from 3rd in Norris voting. The 2018 Norris. At 30 he isn't done. His career hasn't fell off the cliff like that. He's took no major injuries. Subban is in wrong situation. Subban does have an attitude though. Big contract also. There are risks. If Richardson and Weber think they can do something with him? That is big if?? I would offer Alzner even uo. Actually saves us caproom. Let's me trade Petry now for big haul. Petry will fall off pretty soon. He be 33 in December. He is not smart defensively. I have seen him out of position constantly. Relies on speed, quickness and skating to move the puck and create offense. Which Generally is first to go as they age. I would not sign Petry long term. But tradd him for big haul instead. Like to get late first as part of deal, draft Barron or Perrault. Weber and PK on the point on the PP... I hope Juulsen can come back... been watching Canadien Express on RDS and the kid is just solid defensively and hits to hurt... him and PK might make a good 2nd pairing behind Weber and BenHur and we would have a top 4 with size.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 11, 2020 17:45:57 GMT -5
Juulsen is a key player. Really unlucky for him (and us) that he had that freak injury. Here's hoping he's over it.
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Apr 11, 2020 19:42:21 GMT -5
I would take a shot with Subban. It was very unpopular trade when he left. At 30 he shouldn't he done. Should still be in prime years. He can't read the cycle, turns puck over too often trying to do too much and occassionally takes himself out of position delivering highlight type hits. But in front of Price and with right pairing many of his faults can be fixed. Price is strong on the puck it helped Subban. Pair Subban with Gill or Markov he was a Norris candidate. Paired with a Emelin or Beaulieu, Subban was a nightmare. I think it is the situation Subban is in with Jersey. Weber injury, those kind of guys usually improve positioning. They evolve with experience as they age. High hockey IQ, Markov be an example. Not that concerned with his injury. Should still be 2 or 3 solid years left in Weber. Then maybe 2 so-so years. He could play until he is 38, maybe 40. This is a very good description of Subban's game but watching him in New Jersey he doesn't seem to have learned with age and at this point with injuries included his skills are probably less. PK is basically the age now as when the Habs got Weber (who at the time many said was too old) but doesn't have the hockey intelligence that Markov and Weber have to allow them to still be a value to the team in their mid-thirties. I also don't think Subban would be able to adapt mentally to being a third line pairing guy in a couple of years if his skill set degraded more. Montreal also doesn't have a guy to pair with him to cover his weaknesses. If anyone would sign him after a buyout I think it would be the Leafs in hopes of throwing spaghetti against the wall and hoping it sticks. [/quote] Subban is coming off the worst 2 seasons of his career and by a large margin. If the thought is to replace Petry with Subban then we will have to agree that we will never agree. Subban is only 2 years away from 3rd in Norris voting. The 2018 Norris. At 30 he isn't done. His career hasn't fell off the cliff like that. He's took no major injuries. Subban is in wrong situation. Subban does have an attitude though. Big contract also. There are risks. If Richardson and Weber think they can do something with him? That is big if?? I would offer Alzner even uo. Actually saves us caproom. Let's me trade Petry now for big haul. Petry will fall off pretty soon. He be 33 in December. He is not smart defensively. I have seen him out of position constantly. Relies on speed, quickness and skating to move the puck and create offense. Which Generally is first to go as they age. I would not sign Petry long term. But tradd him for big haul instead. Like to get late first as part of deal, draft Barron or Perrault.[/quote] Subban is coming off his worst two seasons by a large margin.If the thinking is to replace Petry with Subban then we will have to agree that we will never agree.
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Post by folatre on Apr 11, 2020 20:04:22 GMT -5
For sure, it would be great news for Juulsen and Montreal's NHL depth on the right side if he can stay healthy, get back on track, and make up for lost developmental time. But who knows, really? For me I would think it is likelier that management is penciling in Weber (indisputable at least under this regime), Petry (indisputable since if he does not get a new contract then hovering around the playoff bubble for the next couple of years is far less likely), and Fleury (he has the upper hand because he looked pretty solid and has actually played more professional games than Juulsen despite being two draft classes younger).
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Apr 12, 2020 12:58:17 GMT -5
For sure, it would be great news for Juulsen and Montreal's NHL depth on the right side if he can stay healthy, get back on track, and make up for lost developmental time. But who knows, really? For me I would think it is likelier that management is penciling in Weber (indisputable at least under this regime), Petry (indisputable since if he does not get a new contract then hovering around the playoff bubble for the next couple of years is far less likely), and Fleury (he has the upper hand because he looked pretty solid and has actually played more professional games than Juulsen despite being two draft classes younger). Juulsen will have to clear waivers next season, so I really see the team giving him the best chance to stick around if he is fully recovered. He was just getting back into the lineup when the season was cancelled, so his damn bad luck continues. Just horrible timing. He is the big wildcard for camp for me...and I am cheering for him as I really like his no nonsense game.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 12, 2020 13:00:39 GMT -5
But he always showed up in big games. I remember BH saying that no other Canadien's player had more respect from Boston fans that PK Subban did ... that's quite a testimonial given the disdain between the fan bases ... Probably why he won the Norris Trophy ... he had his mentors, though ... I'll take some hits for this, but regardless of what we (used to) think of Hal Gill, I think Subban learned a few things from him ... like, learning how not to take up too much space in the dressing room ... on the ice, Subban definitely learned a few things from Andrei Markov, but at the same time, I remember Markov struggling with his game (2015?) ... he'd just come back off an injury and Michel Therrien had to pair Markov with his best defenceman ... that was Subban ... Good research ... I read something on Twitter suggesting that Subban might not have fully recovered from some previous injuries and that might be one of the things affecting his play ... a change in coaching is a good point because up to that change his game had gone south ... I have my own theories about Subban, but they're just that; theories ... Shea Weber's health is a concern, though ... it's been speculated that Weber was playing through an injury at the time the season was postponed ... that may be true but at the same time Weber has been consistently in and out of the lineup over the past few seasons ... he's not getting any younger and it wouldn't surprise me to see his career end on an injury ... back to isolation ... Cheers.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Apr 12, 2020 16:03:58 GMT -5
Rfa’s are expensive in picks. Better to chase free agents like Tavares when they are available. As long as Bergevin is here we are not attractive to free agents I agree....don't like the RFA route. They always match. Instead throw the money at a Krug or Pietrangelo. Overpay yes, but you get the player It feels like all the ideas are making a silk purse out of a sows ear. Sammy Pollack couldn’t turn this bunch of 8 year leftovers into a Stanley Cup team. There are no magic beans or silver bullets. The roster is what it is. Sure there is some talent but realistically we trail a lot of others in overall skill level. Blow it up and get a builder who can start from scratch. General Custer couldn’t win at Little Big Horn with a reset.
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Post by folatre on Apr 12, 2020 19:03:50 GMT -5
NW, I hear you man. That is an issue if management still believes in Juulsen. One thing they could do to ward off some teams who might take a flier on him if he went on waivers is to give Juulsen a two-year one-way contract (say, $1.2 million per). Cheap clubs are wary of being on the hook paying players who get hurt or being on the hook for that second year if the kid fails to impress in 2020-21.
Another issue that Bergevin has to ponder is the wisdom of keeping Fleury in the AHL in 2020-21 when, in fact, he is not exempt from the expansion draft in the summer of 2021. Montreal needs to have a very good read on what this kid is made of in order to know for sure if he should be protected and the best way to know what he can do is for him to have an opportunity to prove his NHL bona fides. For me it would be a big mistake to finally develop a d-man and then lose him just like that.
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Post by folatre on Apr 13, 2020 19:22:22 GMT -5
Rfa’s are expensive in picks. Better to chase free agents like Tavares when they are available. As long as Bergevin is here we are not attractive to free agents I agree....don't like the RFA route. They always match. Instead throw the money at a Krug or Pietrangelo. Overpay yes, but you get the player Bergevin should certainly be trying to fill holes with high end talent. That is his job. However, his track record with UFAs is not good. For starters, the cold reality is that he cannot sell in-demand veteran stars a compelling vision of what he is building here or where he is in the process. I like Krug but I doubt an American kid is going to cross the street and put on a rival's sweater. If he just wants money and does not care about playing for the contending Bruins, then it seems likelier that he goes home to Michigan and plays for the Red Wings. I would love to have Pietrangelo, though I doubt he leaves St. Louis. And even if Bergevin could tempt him to Montreal, either Weber or Petry would have to go because there is no way to have three age 30+ right-handed d-men eating up $23-24 million in cap space. Regarding RFAs I definitely agree that, more so now than ever in the age of analytics, clubs are not going to permit a 22 year old stud RFA depart for a bunch of picks. I do, however, believe that a strategically savvy GM, operating in an environment where plenty of clubs will be cap strapped for the next couple of seasons, could steal a couple of a complimentary pieces for relatively little in terms of draft assets. I know that is not a wow kind of move for a discouraged fan base that has literally forgot what it feels like to cheer for a contender, but honestly I would take it over the likelier status quo scenario (i.e. re-up all the vets on expiring deals with big term and big raises).
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Post by Boston_Habs on Apr 14, 2020 15:35:00 GMT -5
I honestly don't know why Subban declined so much in New Jersey, but I wouldn't bet against him returning to form especially after what will be a long layoff to the 2020-21 season. Plus the 2 years and $9m cap hit left on PK's deal is still FAR better than the 6 years and $7.8m left on Weber's deal. I'd happily trade Shea Weber for PK Subban, if nothing else to get rid of what is increasingly dead cap space the older Weber gets.
I think the 2019-20 season will be treated by Geoff Molson and Marc Bergevin like it never happened. Bergie gets a "do over". I have a feeling he's going to pretty much roll the same roster back next year with the possible addition of Romanov. Most of the roster is already locked up through the 2020-21 season, with Max Domi being the notable RFA. That's not to say pieces can't be moved or signed, but I suspect we'll be seeing the same core (Domi, Drouin, Gallagher, Tatar, Suzuki, Danault, Weber, Petry).
The push/improvement, to the extent it happens, will come from guys like Drouin and Domi truly establishing themselves as top 6 forwards (or not) and Suzuki and Kotkaniemi taking their games to the next level (or not). Throw in the potential of guys like Romanov, Mete, or even Juulsen if he's healthy and you can see the beginning of what Bergevin is trying to assemble.
Personally, I'm happy to forego a splashy/overpaid UFA for the sake of building this thing from within for the time being. However, I'd be quietly taking/sending offers on Price and Weber. By now the Habs brass should have a good idea of whether or not Cayden Primeau is legit. If he is, then why not deal Price now and let Primeau spend the next few years establishing himself while the stakes aren't that high? If Berg's plan works, Primeau would be in his 3rd year by the time we are seriously ready to contend. I'd deal Weber as well, although his cap hit isn't really a problem yet and I think Shea is more valuable to us right now than Price.
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Post by jkr on Apr 14, 2020 17:22:52 GMT -5
I think part of Subban situation in NJ was the team itself. A bad team with iffy goaltending makes for a long season. I'd give him one more season to see if this year was a one off.
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Post by folatre on Apr 14, 2020 22:02:00 GMT -5
Boston, you are probably right that the season disappearing helps Molson and Bergevin. Basically it allows management to be invisible so to speak. But there is no way to put lipstick on a pig. 71 points in 71 games is lousy. And even more shockingly the team only won 19 games in regulation (that is 29th in the league). Lucky for the boys that they are pretty good at shinny (3 v 3) and shootouts because 19 frickin' wins speaks volumes about what a woefully constructed roster this is.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 14, 2020 23:46:46 GMT -5
Boston, you are probably right that the season disappearing helps Molson and Bergevin. Basically it allows management to be invisible so to speak. But there is no way to put lipstick on a pig. 71 points in 71 games is lousy. And even more shockingly the team only won 19 games in regulation (that is 29th in the league). Lucky for the boys that they are pretty good at shinny (3 v 3) and shootouts because 19 frickin' wins speaks volumes about what a woefully constructed roster this is. Paul Byron thinks Bergevin is a freaking genius. I recall Pleky thinking the same thing, but that was after that generous final contract.
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Post by jkr on Apr 15, 2020 5:13:57 GMT -5
Boston, you are probably right that the season disappearing helps Molson and Bergevin. Basically it allows management to be invisible so to speak. But there is no way to put lipstick on a pig. 71 points in 71 games is lousy. And even more shockingly the team only won 19 games in regulation (that is 29th in the league). Lucky for the boys that they are pretty good at shinny (3 v 3) and shootouts because 19 frickin' wins speaks volumes about what a woefully constructed roster this is. Paul Byron thinks Bergevin is a freaking genius. I recall Pleky thinking the same thing, but that was after that generous final contract. I guess when you have just 4 goals in 29 games, you need to suck up to the boss. With someone like Bergevin, that kind of behaviour would probably work.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Apr 15, 2020 8:05:24 GMT -5
Berg was the GM who gave Byron his first multi year deal (job security) worth decent coin and the ability to stay close to family for him and his wife. Reciprocity is not the least bit surprising, nor malicious (but perhaps a tad misguided and biased).
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Apr 15, 2020 8:42:00 GMT -5
It seems funny that so many players and ex-players say that MB is a good GM and a good person. You also hear it from analysts such as McKenzie and McGuire so there must be some validity to it. The team has some big holes on defense and top forwards. Guys like Drouin, KK and Domi fell back this year instead of getting better. They had 2-3 top defenseman but no real stable 4-6 guys, and the biggest hole this year was in goal. Price was inconsistent to start the year and there was no backup. He was inconsistent for parts of last season. To me the biggest fault in the last two seasons was having $5-6 million each year in unused cap space and going with a $1 million dollar back up. Had MB used $3-4 million on a backup then they would have been a playoff team last season and likely challenging for a playoff position this season. MB certainly would have been criticized for having $14 million tied up in goaltending but they would have been a playoff team.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Apr 15, 2020 9:20:22 GMT -5
Boston, you are probably right that the season disappearing helps Molson and Bergevin. Basically it allows management to be invisible so to speak. But there is no way to put lipstick on a pig. 71 points in 71 games is lousy. And even more shockingly the team only won 19 games in regulation (that is 29th in the league). Lucky for the boys that they are pretty good at shinny (3 v 3) and shootouts because 19 frickin' wins speaks volumes about what a woefully constructed roster this is. Paul Byron thinks Bergevin is a freaking genius. I recall Pleky thinking the same thing, but that was after that generous final contract. Let's be honest. Players aren't that smart. A few have gone on to have successful careers in management, but the best managers of hockey organizations aren't ex-players. Especially in this day and age, you need to either be educated or have a pool of really smart, capable people with large bandwidth to manage the complexities of running a major pro sports operation. Guys like Steve Yzerman and Brendan Shanahan are smart enough to know their own limitations, so they make sure they have a great team underneath them. Bergevin has never figured that out. He likes to be in charge and his inner circle seems to be ex-players as well. Guys like Byron and Plekanec probably said those things because the like the guy. Players relate to players or ex-players and Bergevin seems like a genuinely likable, charming guy. That's also why I don't always trust those player polls on who the best players are. It's often a popularity contest or just based on past performance and perception. Wasn't Carey Price voted by the players as the best goalie in the league this year? Huh?
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Post by HABSINFL on Apr 15, 2020 10:33:08 GMT -5
I have THREE WORDS for all of you. Pierre Luc Dubois. Four 1st rounders is fine by me. That is the way. I have spoken. Very well chosen words!
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Post by jkr on Apr 15, 2020 10:47:18 GMT -5
It seems funny that so many players and ex-players say that MB is a good GM and a good person. You also hear it from analysts such as McKenzie and McGuire so there must be some validity to it. The team has some big holes on defense and top forwards. Guys like Drouin, KK and Domi fell back this year instead of getting better. They had 2-3 top defenseman but no real stable 4-6 guys, and the biggest hole this year was in goal. Price was inconsistent to start the year and there was no backup. He was inconsistent for parts of last season. To me the biggest fault in the last two seasons was having $5-6 million each year in unused cap space and going with a $1 million dollar back up. Had MB used $3-4 million on a backup then they would have been a playoff team last season and likely challenging for a playoff position this season. MB certainly would have been criticized for having $14 million tied up in goaltending but they would have been a playoff team. Interesting. The only analyst I have ever heard say something positive about Bergevin is Brian Burke. I've heard some on the negative side. I'm baffled that a hockey person could look at his body of work, the bad signings, where the the team is now, the lack of playoff appearances; and call him a good GM.
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