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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 16, 2020 16:37:24 GMT -5
... one of my fave Hab over the past 10 years or more ... ... thanks for everything, Andrei ...
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Post by GNick99 on Apr 16, 2020 17:53:46 GMT -5
... one of my fave Hab over the past 10 years or more ... ... thanks for everything, Andrei ...
Markov's last year here his play had started to fall off.
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Post by folatre on Apr 16, 2020 18:22:02 GMT -5
I don't know. Obviously, he was slower at the end and was more prone to losing position to strong guys down low. But he had 36 points in 62 games and was a +18.
I understood why Bergevin did not want to give him a two year deal. I get that. But Bergevin made a colossal mess out of the summer of 2017. Really, just horrible in every single decision that he made.
A smart President of Hockey Operations should have intervened and called up Markov himself, talked things through, reassured a proud man of his value to the club, and sold him on taking a one year deal at $5.75 million which had been his AAV for the better part of a decade.
Markov was a great Hab and it reflects poorly on Molson and Bergevin that he did not reach 1,000 games wearing the sweater of the Canadien.
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 16, 2020 19:33:59 GMT -5
I don't know. Obviously, he was slower at the end and was more prone to losing position to strong guys down low. But he had 36 points in 62 games and was a +18. I understood why Bergevin did not want to give him a two year deal. I get that. But Bergevin made a colossal mess out of the summer of 2017. Really, just horrible in every single decision that he made. A smart President of Hockey Operations should have intervened and called up Markov himself, talked things through, reassured a proud man of his value to the club, and sold him on taking a one year deal at $5.75 million which had been his AAV for the better part of a decade. Markov was a great Hab and it reflects poorly on Molson and Bergevin that he did not reach 1,000 games wearing the sweater of the Canadien. I agree... he was disrespected by someone with 1/10 his talent and skill... for many years Markov was one of the few bright spots on the habs, constantly made his D partners better than they were... MB has made many mistakes but the mistakes in 2017 cost this team the playoffs in 2018 and maybe 2019.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 17, 2020 0:17:57 GMT -5
A favourite Hab for a long time. Mr. Grandmaster on the ice. That summer of 2017 was colossally bad for Bergevin. Not signing Markov (even a 2 year deal would have been ok, especially in hindsight), or two 1 years deals. Not signing Radulov. Signing Alzner and trading Sergachev. Those weren't marginal errors. They were game changing ones. You wonder what the hell his life was like then to lose focus like that.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Apr 17, 2020 6:57:13 GMT -5
A shame he never made it to the rarified 1000 game mark with the Habs. He was a favourite of mine during his time here too. I have two Markov game worn jerseys (one from his rookie season with the Citadelles and one red Habs). His hockey IQ was always a bit undervalued as was his ability to make his partners look much better.
Enjoy retirement, Marky!
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 17, 2020 8:38:41 GMT -5
Always devastating when your defensive anchor and PP quarterback is out with a long-term injury/surgery/rehab...and Markov certainly had his share of those over 3 seasons.
April 4, 2009. Centennial season. Late in a 6-2 W in Toronto, the Leafs' Mikhail Grabovski took Markov into the boards. Knee injury. We lost the remaining 4 games of the season, then were unceremoniously swept by the Bruins in Round 1.
2009-10. Season opener. Achilles cut by Price's skate. Would miss approx. 3 months.
2010 playoffs. Round 2 vs. the Penguins. Matt Cooke with a rare clean hit along the boards. Markov's leg twisted under him as he fell. Knee done. Would we have given the Flyers a better run in Round 3 had Markov been on healthy patrol for big minutes?
Nov. 13. 2010....Eric Staal knocked Markov out for the season with another knee injury.
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Post by habsorbed on Apr 17, 2020 10:45:49 GMT -5
He was a good one. Who knows what he could have done with no injuries and better teammates. He was often considered for the captaincy but as I recall he didn't want it - always thought more of him for that decision. Wish Max had turned it down too.
Anyway, always liked the guy and his principles. Everything I read and heard is his mates thought the world of him too! That tells me all I need to know.
Thanks for the memories Andre!
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Post by Andrew on Apr 17, 2020 12:41:54 GMT -5
Stick taps to one of the best Habs players over the last 20 years. Fierce competitor that wore the jersey with pride and played hard every night for himself and his teammates.
When I think of Markov, the play that comes most to mind is the signature diagonal cross ice pass in the offensive zone, from left point to right faceoff circle. Many Habs forwards cashed in on one-timers as the beneficiary of that pass.
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Post by UberCranky on Apr 17, 2020 12:44:25 GMT -5
Anybody remember when they miked him?
"You go there, i go here"
Brilliant insight....and probably Markovs sense of humour.
A great player makes other players better then they are. Komisarek was a worthless lug yet was servicable besides Markov. So was Emalin.
I wonder what he will do for the rest of his life. He certainly earned enough to retire comfortably.
Retire in peace...
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Post by Andrew on Apr 17, 2020 12:50:38 GMT -5
Also, the way he came back at age 34 after 2.5 lost seasons was incredible: playing another 354 games and putting up 203 points over five seasons.
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Post by jkr on Apr 17, 2020 13:06:32 GMT -5
I don't know. Obviously, he was slower at the end and was more prone to losing position to strong guys down low. But he had 36 points in 62 games and was a +18. I understood why Bergevin did not want to give him a two year deal. I get that. But Bergevin made a colossal mess out of the summer of 2017. Really, just horrible in every single decision that he made. A smart President of Hockey Operations should have intervened and called up Markov himself, talked things through, reassured a proud man of his value to the club, and sold him on taking a one year deal at $5.75 million which had been his AAV for the better part of a decade. Markov was a great Hab and it reflects poorly on Molson and Bergevin that he did not reach 1,000 games wearing the sweater of the Canadien. Very well put folatre. Molson is just clueless with these situations. He has no idea what's really important to fans.
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 17, 2020 13:51:21 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Apr 17, 2020 14:23:16 GMT -5
Anybody remember when they miked him? "You go there, i go here" Brilliant insight....and probably Markovs sense of humour. A great player makes other players better then they are. Komisarek was a worthless lug yet was servicable besides Markov. So was Emalin. I wonder what he will do for the rest of his life. He certainly earned enough to retire comfortably. Retire in peace... I wonder if he'd make a great coach? He's very very bright and insightful. He was also highly skilled, but not so much so that he couldn't get his point across to less skilled players. Unlike Gretzky who processed things so quickly that there's no way he could be a great coach cause how do you teach someone to see the ice and think as well and quickly as you? I always thought Berg could have offered Markov something along the lines of playing and then coaching, which could have kept him with the team and given Andrei more long term money but at a lower salary than as a player. Not that coaching s secure, but I think he's got what a coach needs. If you can have patience with Komisarek, you can deal with anyone. He also has principles....not playing for less than what he's worth and not playing for another team. Any team could use a coach like that.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 17, 2020 14:28:50 GMT -5
Yeah, that Subban. What a jerk, huh? Subban described Markov extremely well. I always felt he was highly underrated. For proof, just look at how good (or adequate) Komisarek was when paired with Markov and then what he was like on the Leafs. I still cringe at how Bergevin handled those contract negotiations. I have to think there was something else in the background (a personal issue) which had Bergevin behaving like he did. He preferred Alzner. Can you believe that?
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Post by UberCranky on Apr 17, 2020 14:40:59 GMT -5
Anybody remember when they miked him? "You go there, i go here" Brilliant insight....and probably Markovs sense of humour. A great player makes other players better then they are. Komisarek was a worthless lug yet was servicable besides Markov. So was Emalin. I wonder what he will do for the rest of his life. He certainly earned enough to retire comfortably. Retire in peace... I wonder if he'd make a great coach? He's very very bright and insightful. He was also highly skilled, but not so much so that he couldn't get his point across to less skilled players. Unlike Gretzky who processed things so quickly that there's no way he could be a great coach cause how do you teach someone to see the ice and think as well and quickly as you? I always thought Berg could have offered Markov something along the lines of playing and then coaching, which could have kept him with the team and given Andrei more long term money but at a lower salary than as a player. Not that coaching s secure, but I think he's got what a coach needs. If you can have patience with Komisarek, you can deal with anyone. He also has principles....not playing for less than what he's worth and not playing for another team. Any team could use a coach like that. Coaching is a skill that comes naturally to some and not at all to others. Also a matter of personality, see MThead as an example. Since I don't know Markov personally, I have no idea if he would make a good coach. While his vision is undeniable, his coaching ability would be speculative. Then the question is...can he be tought HOW to coach? Every lead hand and supervisor that I promoted needed at least a few years of training and yet, half of them never succeed in becoming good supervisors. Which brings me to.....do you REALLY trust Bbinz and Julien to be teaching future coaches?
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 17, 2020 16:06:45 GMT -5
Here's an Arpon Basu piece from March 29, 2017--the day after Markov tied Guy Lapointe for 2nd in all-time Habs' D scoring. Echoing a lot of what has been posted above re: Markov's value to the team over his career. Glowing remarks from Julien, Pacioretty, and Weber. A few weeks later, Markov (and Radulov) got a somewhat different sentiment from the GM: Negotiations are over. We want you to play here, but on our terms. First come, first served. In Markov's case, Berg signed Alzner before Markov made his decision. To be fair, Berg DID say negotiations were over, and he had a roster to fill. Basu/LNH.comA rare look into Markov's personal life occurred in mid-February of that same season. After the passing of his ex-wife in Russia, he used the Habs' bye week to repatriate his twin boys to Canada. Engels/SportsNet
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Post by seventeen on Apr 17, 2020 19:47:05 GMT -5
Which brings me to.....do you REALLY trust Bbinz and Julien to be teaching future coaches? Strangely enough, I have them out of the picture by the end of next season.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 17, 2020 20:07:28 GMT -5
In Markov's case, Berg signed Alzner before Markov made his decision. To be fair, Berg DID say negotiations were over, and he had a roster to fill. Definitely. And I'm sure his hard stance with Markov had nothing to do with the fact he'd already signed Alzner. I strongly believe he'd made the decision earlier to go hard enough on Markov to drive him away. He had his replacement signed. For some reason, his already questionable judgment completely deserted him that summer. He had his plan ready and executed it perfectly. Woe was us. There's a list of really, really questionable hockey decisions he made before the summer of 2018. A series of stupendous errors. The Markov one stands out perhaps less of a lesson about contracts than about personalities. On the one hand you have an unquestionably loyal veteran who was 10 games shy of 1000, was 39 years old, and had scored .572 ppg the year before (almost exactly his career average) and was +18, 3rd highest on the team. You have a few young guys coming up, so you needed a stop gap guy to ease them in. Instead, you chase him away because you've signed a guy destined for the AHL. If the habs had had any depth at all, Alzner would have been in the AHL from the get go. He is that bad/mediocre/not suited to new NHL. Markov was competent defensively and still a top notch transition defenseman. All I can say is WTF? A couple of years earlier he rewarded an aging centre who had scored 60 points the year before and then to 54 and 28 in the following years with a lovely $6MM, 2 yer contract, and then brought him back so he could play his 1000th game. Contrast, huh? This is merely one reason why Bergevin is unsuited to be a GM. He's simply not businesslike. So many things with him are personal. He'd make a lousy Mafia boss.
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Post by Tankdriver on Apr 17, 2020 23:03:39 GMT -5
Man I would love to sign Markov for a 10 game or end of this season contract.it wouldn't change anything in the grand scheme of things. Yell i would still do next year. He deserves it. Still disappointed Bergevin didn't sign him last year or 2 years ago.
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Post by GNick99 on Apr 19, 2020 5:39:21 GMT -5
I don't know. Obviously, he was slower at the end and was more prone to losing position to strong guys down low. But he had 36 points in 62 games and was a +18. I understood why Bergevin did not want to give him a two year deal. I get that. But Bergevin made a colossal mess out of the summer of 2017. Really, just horrible in every single decision that he made. A smart President of Hockey Operations should have intervened and called up Markov himself, talked things through, reassured a proud man of his value to the club, and sold him on taking a one year deal at $5.75 million which had been his AAV for the better part of a decade. Markov was a great Hab and it reflects poorly on Molson and Bergevin that he did not reach 1,000 games wearing the sweater of the Canadien. I think Markov finished his career here himself. Holding the team ransom for additional years and his game had clearly started to fall off. I think they got pissed off with him. If he would of had an agent it would have worked out differently. Markov didn't handle it professionally. If not for injuries, a little like Koivu, give him back those injury years he probably be Hall of Fame material.
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Apr 19, 2020 7:42:43 GMT -5
Eric Engels posted a Sportsnet report that Markov made $63 million dollars playing for the Habs, and earned every penny of it. Tony Marinio on TSN690 the other day had said that MB offered Markov a 1 year contract that with easily obtainable bonuses would have made Markov over what he had made the previous season. He also pointed out that Montreal gave Markov a big contract after coming off a serious injury when they didn't know if he could every play to the level he had before. I agree with the thought that Markov was responsible for this himself by insisting on a two year deal. Markov did not reach 1000 games with Montreal because of MB but because he missed 2 1/2 years due to injury.
I loved Markov as a Hab and was hoping for his return. From a PR perspective MB did a horrible job that summer handling it, but if reaching 1000 games was that important to Markov he would have taken a 1 year deal.
Markov was a great player who made players around him better, much better and on almost any other team would have his numbered retired. I hope that eventually happens, not like 79 is in high demand anyway, but it would be a shame to see it on a lesser player.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Apr 19, 2020 8:50:43 GMT -5
Probably my favorite Hab in the post Cup years. Like Koivu, it's a shame we could never put enough pieces in place around him. Markov was an elite player at his position and really had no weakness in his game. He gets accolades for his passing and offensive instincts, but in his prime he was one of the best at separating opposing forwards from the puck. Some dmen would look to crunch guys into the boards, but Markov would just come at a guy from the proper angle, calmly get between him and the puck, and then immediately make a transition play. A hockey purists player.
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Post by jkr on Apr 19, 2020 11:32:37 GMT -5
I don't listen to him a lot but it seems like Marinaro is their go to guy when the Habs want their side of the story out.
Fair, unfair?
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 19, 2020 11:32:57 GMT -5
Probably my favorite Hab in the post Cup years. Like Koivu, it's a shame we could never put enough pieces in place around him. Markov was an elite player at his position and really had no weakness in his game. He gets accolades for his passing and offensive instincts, but in his prime he was one of the best at separating opposing forwards from the puck. Some dmen would look to crunch guys into the boards, but Markov would just come at a guy from the proper angle, calmly get between him and the puck, and then immediately make a transition play. A hockey purists player. I agree BH, he was lightyears ahead of any partner he had when it came to thinking the game. He should have played his 1000th game in a habs uni... simple as that
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 19, 2020 11:33:57 GMT -5
I don't listen to him a lot but it seems like Marinaro is their go to guy when the Habs want their side of the story out. Fair, unfair? Hes a loud mouth shill imo... cant listen to him on tsn690
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Post by franko on Apr 19, 2020 11:59:43 GMT -5
I agree with the thought that Markov was responsible for this himself by insisting on a two year deal. if reaching 1000 games was that important to Markov he would have taken a 1 year deal. I think the NHL needs to add the possibility of a one-year extension to their contracts. I don't know if it is possible with a salary cap in place, and I don't know if the NHLPA would go for it, but I'm sure something could be worked out somehow if they really wanted it.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 19, 2020 12:57:10 GMT -5
I think Markov finished his career here himself. Holding the team ransom for additional years and his game had clearly started to fall off. I guess one could look at it as Markov 'holding the team hostage'. Or one could see that he was negotiating a contract from a position of strength because Bergevin had allowed the defense corps to deteriorate mightily. We were given clear proof of that the following seasons. In fact, later comments confirmed that Markov was ready to accept a 1 year deal, but Bergevin seemed to have no interest in that. So...if anyone was at fault for the state of affairs at the time it was Bergevin. Also if Markov's game was falling off, his stats certainly didn't indicate it. We saw, of course, that he was susceptible to players speeding around him (very much like Weber today), but as I said, his stats were good. Third best +/- on the team. He adjusted as best he could. The following year in the KHL, he was pretty good as well, so a 1 year contract wouldn't have been a bad choice. So why not? Isn't that the $64MM question and is precisely why I have no confidence in Bergevin to manage even a hot dog stand.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 19, 2020 13:10:11 GMT -5
Eric Engels posted a Sportsnet report that Markov made $63 million dollars playing for the Habs, and earned every penny of it. Tony Marinio on TSN690 the other day had said that MB offered Markov a 1 year contract that with easily obtainable bonuses would have made Markov over what he had made the previous season. He also pointed out that Montreal gave Markov a big contract after coming off a serious injury when they didn't know if he could every play to the level he had before. I think it's generally accepted that Markov is a very proud man. If Bergevin did indeed submitted a 1 year contract with conditions, how does a proud man view it? I think he'd say that Bergevin doesn't trust him and wants a bunch of 'conditions' in there to protect his butt. Fair enough, but Berg wasn't negotiating with the expectation that Charlie McAvoy and Thomas Chabot and Rasmus Dahlin were ready to graduate to the Habs the following season. He had bugger all coming up, after trading Sergachev. And he still acted like he was the guy with the better negotiating position. So maybe Markov's pride got in the way. But seriously? You're giving up 80% odds of having a decent 2nd pairing defenseman and instead you're going all in on Jordy Benn, Karl Alzner, Joe Morrow, Mike Reilly, David Schlemko, Jakub Jerabek, Brett Kulak and Christian Folin. Can you see how silly that seems? So Berg won his battle and we fans lost the war.
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 19, 2020 13:55:37 GMT -5
Eric Engels posted a Sportsnet report that Markov made $63 million dollars playing for the Habs, and earned every penny of it. Tony Marinio on TSN690 the other day had said that MB offered Markov a 1 year contract that with easily obtainable bonuses would have made Markov over what he had made the previous season. He also pointed out that Montreal gave Markov a big contract after coming off a serious injury when they didn't know if he could every play to the level he had before. I think it's generally accepted that Markov is a very proud man. If Bergevin did indeed submitted a 1 year contract with conditions, how does a proud man view it? I think he'd say that Bergevin doesn't trust him and wants a bunch of 'conditions' in there to protect his butt. Fair enough, but Berg wasn't negotiating with the expectation that Charlie McAvoy and Thomas Chabot and Rasmus Dahlin were ready to graduate to the Habs the following season. He had bugger all coming up, after trading Sergachev. And he still acted like he was the guy with the better negotiating position. So maybe Markov's pride got in the way. But seriously? You're giving up 80% odds of having a decent 2nd pairing defenseman and instead you're going all in on Jordy Benn, Karl Alzner, Joe Morrow, Mike Reilly, David Schlemko, Jakub Jerabek, Brett Kulak and Christian Folin. Can you see how silly that seems? So Berg won his battle and we fans lost the war. The guys you mention above are at the same skill level as Berg when he was a player.. The narcissist in him believes you can win with a line up of 'me'...
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