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Post by BadCompany on Apr 21, 2020 10:48:32 GMT -5
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Post by mikeg on Apr 21, 2020 10:55:55 GMT -5
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 21, 2020 10:58:21 GMT -5
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Apr 21, 2020 11:14:21 GMT -5
165 lbs is very slight.
Not sure what message this sends: if he is to platoon with Primeau in Laval (and they think Lindgren is the man to ease Carey’s load) or if he is the anointed backup in Montreal.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Apr 21, 2020 11:19:34 GMT -5
Errgevin has a track record of bringing in low risk backup goaltenders du jour each year with the hope of finding a Dryden. So far lots of hope in October and shuffling by December. You get what you pay for. Low risk, low reward, low salary cap, high prices at the box office.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Apr 21, 2020 11:20:07 GMT -5
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Apr 21, 2020 11:21:18 GMT -5
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 21, 2020 11:37:17 GMT -5
I was thinking that $70,000 a year in the AHL would be a tough sell to a KHL player, but based on that Engels thread it seems like Demchenko has NHL dreams, and is willing to do whatever it takes to get his foot in the door. He seems pretty eager to sign with Montreal too, which is kind of strange considering the depth we have at the position.
My guess is that right now he's going to battle Lindgren for the backup position in Montreal. Loser gets the backup position in Laval, behind Primeau. McNiven looks to be the odd-man out again.
Wait until Bergevin trades for and/or signs a veteran NHL goalie... then it's going to get wild!
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Post by folatre on Apr 21, 2020 11:44:02 GMT -5
Who knows, Demchenko seems rather smallish by today's NHL standards for netminders. I guess it is a risk-free move.
Poor McNiven, he was treated pretty shabbily last season and now he is apparently the odd man out. I make this assumption because it makes no sense for any of the guys involved to try to find starts for three goalies in Laval.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Apr 21, 2020 11:54:27 GMT -5
Who knows, Demchenko seems rather smallish by today's NHL standards for netminders. I guess it is a risk-free move. Poor McNiven, he was treated pretty shabbily last season and now he is apparently the odd man out. I make this assumption because it makes no sense for any of the guys involved to try to find starts for three goalies in Laval. Agree on all fronts about McNiven. So much for signs that the Habs are getting better at player development. Keeping tabs on goalie prospects that don’t have a team to play on or even facilities in which to practice show that they still have tons of work to do. Too bad as McNiven clearly outplayed Kincaid (how hard was that though?) when he had his chance down the stretch. This is also where not having an ECHL franchise (yet again) hurts. You are at the mercy of ECHL teams who favour their affiliated teams when handing out goalie starts. Strike two on signs of improved player development.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Apr 21, 2020 12:02:57 GMT -5
Some views from folks who may even have seen him play!
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Post by UberCranky on Apr 21, 2020 12:22:28 GMT -5
If i was a player in the KHL and put my ear to the railroad track........i wont hear the money train coming....
Russia is an economic wreak and the KHL can't be far behind. It's clown prince doesn't have the luxury of pouring hundreds of billions (more like half trillion) into the economy like ours does and their black gold is worth as much as our....not much.
So if i was Igor Crankysliev, sexy, fit, top 30 player in my mid to late twenties, i look at the NHL offer. Because even if i was wrong and Mommy Russia by some miracle economically revived, i could still hold my breath until i was released and went back.
Interesting economic times ahead...and they are not pretty..
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Post by frozone on Apr 21, 2020 12:51:35 GMT -5
What's not to like about this signing? Sure, it may not point to an obviously discernible plan, but he's apparently a good goalie with good numbers and wants to sign with Montreal under a very friendly contract. I'll be surprised if he isn't better than Lindgren right out of the gate.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 21, 2020 14:14:18 GMT -5
I like the stats on the player himself. I have a soft spot for good goalies on bad teams (Patrick Roy and Carey Price in Juniour). AS others have said above, it's puzzling in that some decisions have to have been made on Lindgren and McNiven. Primeau is not going anywhere and will get the bulk of the starts in Laval. Which leaves Lindgren, Kinkaid, McNiven and Demchenko fighting for the back up spots in Montreal and Laval. I think it's safe to say Kinkaid's not getting either of those unless he has a resurrection. There's no way McNiven is ready for the back-up spot in Montreal yet. My preferences, which Bergevin rarely pays attention to for some reason is for Demchenko to work out well enough to be the backup in Montreal (26 years old, so he's mature enough), and for McNiven to be the backup in Laval. McNiven and Primeau could both improve there without the pressure of playing in Habland. That leaves the team having to do something with Lindgren and Kinkaid. Kinkaid is a failed experiment and I believe Lindgren is as well. He makes the occasional spectacular save, but isn't consistent enough, or good enough frankly, for my liking.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Apr 21, 2020 16:05:27 GMT -5
I like the stats on the player himself. I have a soft spot for good goalies on bad teams (Patrick Roy and Carey Price in Juniour). AS others have said above, it's puzzling in that some decisions have to have been made on Lindgren and McNiven. Primeau is not going anywhere and will get the bulk of the starts in Laval. Which leaves Lindgren, Kinkaid, McNiven and Demchenko fighting for the back up spots in Montreal and Laval. I think it's safe to say Kinkaid's not getting either of those unless he has a resurrection. There's no way McNiven is ready for the back-up spot in Montreal yet. My preferences, which Bergevin rarely pays attention to for some reason is for Demchenko to work out well enough to be the backup in Montreal (26 years old, so he's mature enough), and for McNiven to be the backup in Laval. McNiven and Primeau could both improve there without the pressure of playing in Habland. That leaves the team having to do something with Lindgren and Kinkaid. Kinkaid is a failed experiment and I believe Lindgren is as well. He makes the occasional spectacular save, but isn't consistent enough, or good enough frankly, for my liking. We need a first line “D”, a scoring forward. An additional mediocre Goaltnder is not a big need.
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Apr 21, 2020 16:50:10 GMT -5
I don't see Demchenko coming directly from the KHL to play in the NHL without at least starting the season in Laval. I suspect MB will still be looking for an experienced NHL goalie to back up Price. Demenchko would be in a battle with Lindgren to play with Primeau and McNiven back in the ECHL or released and Kinkaid gone.
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Post by folatre on Apr 21, 2020 18:56:45 GMT -5
I don't see Demchenko coming directly from the KHL to play in the NHL without at least starting the season in Laval. I suspect MB will still be looking for an experienced NHL goalie to back up Price. Demenchko would be in a battle with Lindgren to play with Primeau and McNiven back in the ECHL or released and Kinkaid gone. Yeah, this is how I see it playing out. Bergevin and Julien are both likely to be fired next April if the Habs miss the playoffs yet again in 2020-21, so management has every incentive conceivable to sign a solid vet backup. It would literally shock me if Demchenko begins the season in Montreal. I actually thought Lindgren did a respectable job in his NHL starts but it is clear that Julien does not trust him so I think that likely means Lindgren gets a new start somewhere else. There will be plenty of vet backups on the market whenever the season is finally finished/cancelled. However, the trick is Bergevin picking one with anything left in the tank. Allen was actually really good this season for the Blues. GNick and I already traded for him in order to alleviate St. Louis' cap crunch, so hey that's settled. Price and Allen in Montreal. Primeau and the Russian in Laval. And, on a final note, I would reiterate that I feel bad for McNiven. Despite playing well for the Rocket last season and this season, the kid was ninguneado something terrible year, playing for three different ECHL clubs and having periods of time this year where he literally had nowhere to go practice. As NW alluded to earlier in this thread, it is not a positive sign that the Canadiens organization is one of three or four in the NHL that does not have ECHL affiliate. I am not asking that Molson manage to be a trailblazer who popularizes a structural innovation like having a third professional tier to develop some kids, but this trend is like ten years old by now and it is safe to say Montreal was not a trailblazer, nor a early adopter, nor even a late adopter.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 21, 2020 20:35:06 GMT -5
I don't see Demchenko coming directly from the KHL to play in the NHL without at least starting the season in Laval. I suspect MB will still be looking for an experienced NHL goalie to back up Price. Demenchko would be in a battle with Lindgren to play with Primeau and McNiven back in the ECHL or released and Kinkaid gone. Yeah, this is how I see it playing out. Bergevin and Julien are both likely to be fired next April if the Habs miss the playoffs yet again in 2020-21, so management has every incentive conceivable to sign a solid vet backup. It would literally shock me if Demchenko begins the season in Montreal. I actually thought Lindgren did a respectable job in his NHL starts but it is clear that Julien does not trust him so I think that likely means Lindgren gets a new start somewhere else. There will be plenty of vet backups on the market whenever the season is finally finished/cancelled. However, the trick is Bergevin picking one with anything left in the tank. Allen was actually really good this season for the Blues. GNick and I already traded for him in order to alleviate St. Louis' cap crunch, so hey that's settled. Price and Allen in Montreal. Primeau and the Russian in Laval. And, on a final note, I would reiterate that I feel bad for McNiven. Despite playing well for the Rocket last season and this season, the kid was ninguneado something terrible year, playing for three different ECHL clubs and having periods of time this year where he literally had nowhere to go practice. As NW alluded to earlier in this thread, it is not a positive sign that the Canadiens organization is one of three or four in the NHL that does not have ECHL affiliate. I am not asking that Molson manage to be a trailblazer who popularizes a structural innovation like having a third professional tier to develop some kids, but this trend is like ten years old by now and it is safe to say Montreal was not a trailblazer, nor a early adopter, nor even a late adopter. I'd prefer they gave McNiven more time. A kid with that much determination and character is a good bet. Here's my prediction. Kinkaid and Lindgren won't be with the Habs next season. Demchenko will make the Habs and he'll be the back-up. He's proven himself in possibly the second best league in the world after the NHL (tied with SHL), so why can't he make it as a back-up? And I think McNiven will be Primeau's backup in Laval. I have spoken.
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Post by habsorbed on Apr 22, 2020 11:00:13 GMT -5
Not having a ECHL team is a further indictment of this Molson regime: CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP!!! And lazy too!
Must be nice to have a fan base that is so hockey crazed ownership can serve up a subpar product year after year without spending to cap or supporting the infrastructure, and yet continue to sell the product at top dollar.
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 22, 2020 11:35:16 GMT -5
I think the lack of an ECHL affiliate really just boiled down to bad luck and bad timing, and wasn't really a result of negligence or cheapness. Sure, it would be nice to have a team, but the simple fact is there are only 26 ECHL teams, compared with 31 NHL teams. So unless there was a shared agreement, somebody was always going to be left out in the cold. Now of course it's easy to say that "we are the Montreal Canadiens, we shouldn't be one of those five!" and to a certain extent you would be right... but sometimes the best laid plans go astray. Here is a decent and fair article that I think outlines some of the things that happened: www.habseyesontheprize.com/2019/8/1/17629714/montreal-canadiens-echl-affiliate-prospect-development-third-tier-professional-hockeyTo summarize: * The Habs used to have an affiliation with the Brampton Beast, but the Beast decided to switch affiliations, and go with the Ottawa Senators. * The only ECHL team without an affiliation in 2019, when the agreement with Brampton fell through, was the Norfolk Admirals. While it would be easy to say "why didn't we go with them??" the truth is Norfolk was such a mess of a franchise that it's previously affiliated NHL team, the Nashville Predators, actually cancelled their affiliation with them half-way through the season. Which begs the question, how bad was it that the Predators deemed it better to not even finish the season with them?? * Most of the players that Montreal had under contract were already affiliated with various ECHL teams, and thus the need for a wholly-owned affiliate was somewhat mitigated. Most of the players that were likely to be sent to the ECHL already had ECHL landing spots. * 2019-20, last season, was going to be a problem, but then there weren't that many players that were likely to go to the ECHL, and there were still arrangements with various teams to send those players. It just so happens that one of those players was McNiven, and since only one goalie can be on the ice at a time, it became problematic. What isn't discussed in that article is the Trois Rivieres fiasco. Montreal was supposed to have an affiliation with a new ECHL team there - which would be great, considering how close to Montreal it is - but as can often happen politics got in the way. The mayor of Trois Rivieres for 'reasons' threw up a whole bunch of roadblocks which resulted in delay after delay, and ultimately no team in Trois Rivieres (yet). There is a brand new arena there, but for some reason the mayor wants to have a university team as it's main tenant. Negotiations continue. So really, if we follow the timeline you see that the plan was for Montreal to have an ECHL team in Trois Rivieres for the 2020-21 season. This was no secret, and probably played a huge role in the Brampton Beast dropping their affiliation with Montreal. Why partner with them when you know they are leaving in a couple of years? Better to pick the NHL team that says they are going to stay long term, no? Timing-wise, 2019-20 was always going to be a "gap" year with no ECHL team, but again, there were arrangements in place for players to play elsewhere. This was expected to be a short-term problem. But once the mayor of Trois Rivieres got involved, the problem stretched out. No mayor, and next year the Habs ECHL team would be playing Trois Rivieres. It's an unfortunate situation, and in the end McNiven paid the price, mainly because he is a goalie as opposed to a skater. But I don't think there was an maliciousness of negligence on Montreal's part. Just bad luck, bad timing, and politics.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Apr 22, 2020 12:21:40 GMT -5
I think the lack of an ECHL affiliate really just boiled down to bad luck and bad timing, and wasn't really a result of negligence or cheapness. Sure, it would be nice to have a team, but the simple fact is there are only 26 ECHL teams, compared with 31 NHL teams. So unless there was a shared agreement, somebody was always going to be left out in the cold. Now of course it's easy to say that "we are the Montreal Canadiens, we shouldn't be one of those five!" and to a certain extent you would be right... but sometimes the best laid plans go astray. Here is a decent and fair article that I think outlines some of the things that happened: www.habseyesontheprize.com/2019/8/1/17629714/montreal-canadiens-echl-affiliate-prospect-development-third-tier-professional-hockeyTo summarize: * The Habs used to have an affiliation with the Brampton Beast, but the Beast decided to switch affiliations, and go with the Ottawa Senators. * The only ECHL team without an affiliation in 2019, when the agreement with Brampton fell through, was the Norfolk Admirals. While it would be easy to say "why didn't we go with them??" the truth is Norfolk was such a mess of a franchise that it's previously affiliated NHL team, the Nashville Predators, actually cancelled their affiliation with them half-way through the season. Which begs the question, how bad was it that the Predators deemed it better to not even finish the season with them?? * Most of the players that Montreal had under contract were already affiliated with various ECHL teams, and thus the need for a wholly-owned affiliate was somewhat mitigated. Most of the players that were likely to be sent to the ECHL already had ECHL landing spots. * 2019-20, last season, was going to be a problem, but then there weren't that many players that were likely to go to the ECHL, and there were still arrangements with various teams to send those players. It just so happens that one of those players was McNiven, and since only one goalie can be on the ice at a time, it became problematic. What isn't discussed in that article is the Trois Rivieres fiasco. Montreal was supposed to have an affiliation with a new ECHL team there - which would be great, considering how close to Montreal it is - but as can often happen politics got in the way. The mayor of Trois Rivieres for 'reasons' threw up a whole bunch of roadblocks which resulted in delay after delay, and ultimately no team in Trois Rivieres (yet). There is a brand new arena there, but for some reason the mayor wants to have a university team as it's main tenant. Negotiations continue. So really, if we follow the timeline you see that the plan was for Montreal to have an ECHL team in Trois Rivieres for the 2020-21 season. This was no secret, and probably played a huge role in the Brampton Beast dropping their affiliation with Montreal. Why partner with them when you know they are leaving in a couple of years? Better to pick the NHL team that says they are going to stay long term, no? Timing-wise, 2019-20 was always going to be a "gap" year with no ECHL team, but again, there were arrangements in place for players to play elsewhere. This was expected to be a short-term problem. But once the mayor of Trois Rivieres got involved, the problem stretched out. No mayor, and next year the Habs ECHL team would be playing Trois Rivieres. It's an unfortunate situation, and in the end McNiven paid the price, mainly because he is a goalie as opposed to a skater. But I don't think there was an maliciousness of negligence on Montreal's part. Just bad luck, bad timing, and politics. You just excently summed up the last 8 years in one sentence. Bad luck, bad timing and bad politics. We need changes! Good planning reduces bad luck.
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Post by Skilly on Apr 22, 2020 16:01:37 GMT -5
I think the lack of an ECHL affiliate really just boiled down to bad luck and bad timing, and wasn't really a result of negligence or cheapness. Sure, it would be nice to have a team, but the simple fact is there are only 26 ECHL teams, compared with 31 NHL teams. So unless there was a shared agreement, somebody was always going to be left out in the cold. Now of course it's easy to say that "we are the Montreal Canadiens, we shouldn't be one of those five!" and to a certain extent you would be right... but sometimes the best laid plans go astray. Here is a decent and fair article that I think outlines some of the things that happened: www.habseyesontheprize.com/2019/8/1/17629714/montreal-canadiens-echl-affiliate-prospect-development-third-tier-professional-hockeyTo summarize: * The Habs used to have an affiliation with the Brampton Beast, but the Beast decided to switch affiliations, and go with the Ottawa Senators. * The only ECHL team without an affiliation in 2019, when the agreement with Brampton fell through, was the Norfolk Admirals. While it would be easy to say "why didn't we go with them??" the truth is Norfolk was such a mess of a franchise that it's previously affiliated NHL team, the Nashville Predators, actually cancelled their affiliation with them half-way through the season. Which begs the question, how bad was it that the Predators deemed it better to not even finish the season with them?? * Most of the players that Montreal had under contract were already affiliated with various ECHL teams, and thus the need for a wholly-owned affiliate was somewhat mitigated. Most of the players that were likely to be sent to the ECHL already had ECHL landing spots. * 2019-20, last season, was going to be a problem, but then there weren't that many players that were likely to go to the ECHL, and there were still arrangements with various teams to send those players. It just so happens that one of those players was McNiven, and since only one goalie can be on the ice at a time, it became problematic. What isn't discussed in that article is the Trois Rivieres fiasco. Montreal was supposed to have an affiliation with a new ECHL team there - which would be great, considering how close to Montreal it is - but as can often happen politics got in the way. The mayor of Trois Rivieres for 'reasons' threw up a whole bunch of roadblocks which resulted in delay after delay, and ultimately no team in Trois Rivieres (yet). There is a brand new arena there, but for some reason the mayor wants to have a university team as it's main tenant. Negotiations continue. So really, if we follow the timeline you see that the plan was for Montreal to have an ECHL team in Trois Rivieres for the 2020-21 season. This was no secret, and probably played a huge role in the Brampton Beast dropping their affiliation with Montreal. Why partner with them when you know they are leaving in a couple of years? Better to pick the NHL team that says they are going to stay long term, no? Timing-wise, 2019-20 was always going to be a "gap" year with no ECHL team, but again, there were arrangements in place for players to play elsewhere. This was expected to be a short-term problem. But once the mayor of Trois Rivieres got involved, the problem stretched out. No mayor, and next year the Habs ECHL team would be playing Trois Rivieres. It's an unfortunate situation, and in the end McNiven paid the price, mainly because he is a goalie as opposed to a skater. But I don't think there was an maliciousness of negligence on Montreal's part. Just bad luck, bad timing, and politics. So it was being cheap. Their continued desire to have all franchises close They ended their affiliation with a Brampton in 2017-18. They went the 2018-19 season without a team . However , what happened in 2018-19? The ECHL awarded a franchise to St. John’s. Montreal had an affiliation with St. John’s just one year prior to this ... they could have easily had a franchise here. Instead Toronto swooped in and has the affiliation with the defending champs , another NHL team with ties to here (and further away than Montreal)
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Post by frozone on Apr 22, 2020 17:59:58 GMT -5
I think the lack of an ECHL affiliate really just boiled down to bad luck and bad timing, and wasn't really a result of negligence or cheapness. Sure, it would be nice to have a team, but the simple fact is there are only 26 ECHL teams, compared with 31 NHL teams. So unless there was a shared agreement, somebody was always going to be left out in the cold. Now of course it's easy to say that "we are the Montreal Canadiens, we shouldn't be one of those five!" and to a certain extent you would be right... but sometimes the best laid plans go astray. Here is a decent and fair article that I think outlines some of the things that happened: www.habseyesontheprize.com/2019/8/1/17629714/montreal-canadiens-echl-affiliate-prospect-development-third-tier-professional-hockeyTo summarize: * The Habs used to have an affiliation with the Brampton Beast, but the Beast decided to switch affiliations, and go with the Ottawa Senators. * The only ECHL team without an affiliation in 2019, when the agreement with Brampton fell through, was the Norfolk Admirals. While it would be easy to say "why didn't we go with them??" the truth is Norfolk was such a mess of a franchise that it's previously affiliated NHL team, the Nashville Predators, actually cancelled their affiliation with them half-way through the season. Which begs the question, how bad was it that the Predators deemed it better to not even finish the season with them?? * Most of the players that Montreal had under contract were already affiliated with various ECHL teams, and thus the need for a wholly-owned affiliate was somewhat mitigated. Most of the players that were likely to be sent to the ECHL already had ECHL landing spots. * 2019-20, last season, was going to be a problem, but then there weren't that many players that were likely to go to the ECHL, and there were still arrangements with various teams to send those players. It just so happens that one of those players was McNiven, and since only one goalie can be on the ice at a time, it became problematic. What isn't discussed in that article is the Trois Rivieres fiasco. Montreal was supposed to have an affiliation with a new ECHL team there - which would be great, considering how close to Montreal it is - but as can often happen politics got in the way. The mayor of Trois Rivieres for 'reasons' threw up a whole bunch of roadblocks which resulted in delay after delay, and ultimately no team in Trois Rivieres (yet). There is a brand new arena there, but for some reason the mayor wants to have a university team as it's main tenant. Negotiations continue. So really, if we follow the timeline you see that the plan was for Montreal to have an ECHL team in Trois Rivieres for the 2020-21 season. This was no secret, and probably played a huge role in the Brampton Beast dropping their affiliation with Montreal. Why partner with them when you know they are leaving in a couple of years? Better to pick the NHL team that says they are going to stay long term, no? Timing-wise, 2019-20 was always going to be a "gap" year with no ECHL team, but again, there were arrangements in place for players to play elsewhere. This was expected to be a short-term problem. But once the mayor of Trois Rivieres got involved, the problem stretched out. No mayor, and next year the Habs ECHL team would be playing Trois Rivieres. It's an unfortunate situation, and in the end McNiven paid the price, mainly because he is a goalie as opposed to a skater. But I don't think there was an maliciousness of negligence on Montreal's part. Just bad luck, bad timing, and politics. Thanks for taking the time to summarize. I knew about the Trois Rivieres situation, but I didn't know the entire story and context for the Habs. I get the anger of the fanbase because it seems the Habs front office can do no right... but I think you're right on this one, BC.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 22, 2020 19:37:29 GMT -5
So really, if we follow the timeline you see that the plan was for Montreal to have an ECHL team in Trois Rivieres for the 2020-21 season. This was no secret, and probably played a huge role in the Brampton Beast dropping their affiliation with Montreal. Why partner with them when you know they are leaving in a couple of years? Better to pick the NHL team that says they are going to stay long term, no? Timing-wise, 2019-20 was always going to be a "gap" year with no ECHL team, but again, there were arrangements in place for players to play elsewhere. This was expected to be a short-term problem. But once the mayor of Trois Rivieres got involved, the problem stretched out. No mayor, and next year the Habs ECHL team would be playing Trois Rivieres. It's an unfortunate situation, and in the end McNiven paid the price, mainly because he is a goalie as opposed to a skater. But I don't think there was an maliciousness of negligence on Montreal's part. Just bad luck, bad timing, and politics. My questions would be, 1. why the need for an ECHL affiliate in Trois Rivieres? Having a farm team in Laval makes sense in that movements to and fro are cheap and cheerful since everyone's a transit bus away from each other. Would you really save a lot of money having an affiliate in Trois Rivieres, than in Brampton. Is there really that much movement between the AHL team and the ECHL team? 2. Why have an ECHL affiliate at all? How many ECHL guys make the NHL? For the Habs, I can think of Desharnais (1 season) and Ryder (20 odd games). I suspect both guys could have played those seasons in the AHL under the right circumstances. So...I don't get 1, and I suspect the answer to 2 involves not drafting quite so many guys, or leaving their development in the hands of others because you're loaning them out. I also assume you'd be looking after your best prospects in Laval, so those not in Laval would be marginal players with low odds of making the NHL. Guys like Daniel Audette or Karl Alzner (sorry, had to sneak that one in). There are probably other considerations of which I know nothing, but waiting to put a franchise in Trois Rivieres doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, either.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 22, 2020 19:41:40 GMT -5
But I don't think there was an maliciousness of negligence on Montreal's part. Just bad luck, bad timing, and politics. 95% of bad luck is due to making poor decisions. In hockey and in life. I'll elaborate on that a bit. In my former job, I heard a lot of financial bad luck stories. Parents asking for help so they could help out their children, others who went bankrupt because the economy turned or whatever. When you drilled down, inevitably you'd come across a decision and wonder "why the hell did they do that?". It is a statistical fact that half the people who declare bankruptcy, do so again. That's incredibly bad luck, huh? In my sequestered life, I've taken to watching some poker tournaments on tv. There's one guy (whose name I can't recall) who I've been studying because a) he wins a lot and b) I'm interested in how he makes his decisions. Just saw him win a hand today, starting out with a 5 and 3 of clubs. So why would you start betting with a 5 and 3 of clubs? I've seen others fold those cards. To digress slightly there's another guy who plays poker regularly in Macau and is also successful. He's not a professional, but easily could be. Same thing as the other guy. I watch them play and think, geeze he's lucky. Gets the exact card he needs on the river. No doubt luck is playing a part (it is poker after all), but these 2 guys seem to be luckier than most. Could it possibly be that they only bet on pairs of cards that statistically have better results than most? Probably, but they're always up against people who are expert poker players. They're just as experienced, and should have noted the same probabilities. Shouldn't they? Obviously some people are better at it than others, or they read their opponents better. A key with both is that they're good at being not stupid. They fold when the risks are too high, so they don't tend to lose big. They also tend to win big. That's not only poker, it's also true in life. Don't take huge risks or at least don' take huge uneducated, unnecessary risks. Load up when the odds are in your favour. So when I hear about instances of bad luck, I'm not convinced. Bad luck is having a flush and watching your opponent making a full house on a river with a 1% chance of doing so on the flop. Bad luck is not (for example) refusing to sign Markov or Radulov, trading Sergachev and signing Alzner, all within 6 weeks. Those kinds of decision can set you back years.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 23, 2020 0:43:52 GMT -5
I listened to a podcast from Patrik Bexell, who does stuff for Habs Eye on the Prize. He had Gillian Kimmerer discussing both Demchenko and Romanov. Kimmerer follows Russian hockey a lot, so she's knowledgeable and balanced. She feels Demchenko is a good goalie who wants to play in the NHL. He has stated he's willing to work his way up and has no KHL parachute in his contract. Kimmerer and Bexell both think he's ready. His Chelyabinsk Traktor teams were pretty bad, so he got a workout most nights. Demchenko has attended 6 or 7 training camps from various NHL teams, so he's got some experience in that regard. The KHL plays in 3 different sized rinks, though Chelyabinsk uses the Olympic size one. Demchenko has played in NHL sized ones, but may need to adjust. Supposedly, he has a weaker than normal glove hand, but neither Bexell nor Kimmerer noticed that at all from their viewings. Kimmerer has seen him live as well as on video.
One interesting fact that came out was that one season, Pavel Francouz was his back-up and then they split duties for Traktor for a couple of seasons. Francouz's numbers were slightly better than Demchenko's. Francouz is also 3 years older. Francouz, of course, surprised a lot of people, putting up a 2.41GAA and .923 save% in 34 games for the Avs this past season. Knowing that, it might not be such a giant leap to see Demchenko win the backup spot on the Habs.
There wasn't a lot on Romanov (emphasis on the 2nd syllable in his name, normal for Russians, eg. Ro-MAN-ov). He has a reputation as an agitator, so Cranky will like that.
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 23, 2020 7:49:23 GMT -5
My questions would be, 1. why the need for an ECHL affiliate in Trois Rivieres? Having a farm team in Laval makes sense in that movements to and fro are cheap and cheerful since everyone's a transit bus away from each other. Would you really save a lot of money having an affiliate in Trois Rivieres, than in Brampton. Is there really that much movement between the AHL team and the ECHL team? 2. Why have an ECHL affiliate at all? How many ECHL guys make the NHL? For the Habs, I can think of Desharnais (1 season) and Ryder (20 odd games). I suspect both guys could have played those seasons in the AHL under the right circumstances. So...I don't get 1, and I suspect the answer to 2 involves not drafting quite so many guys, or leaving their development in the hands of others because you're loaning them out. I also assume you'd be looking after your best prospects in Laval, so those not in Laval would be marginal players with low odds of making the NHL. Guys like Daniel Audette or Karl Alzner (sorry, had to sneak that one in). There are probably other considerations of which I know nothing, but waiting to put a franchise in Trois Rivieres doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, either. Why the need for an ECHL team in Trois Rivieres? Good question. I don't think costs, or proximity to Laval played any part, as there isn't much difference and/or movement between ECHL and AHL teams anyways. The positive spin would be it's an additional chance to build hockey in Quebec, which is perceived as lacking behind other provinces and states. More and better hockey, especially at cheaper prices, means more eyes on the game, and thus more interest, more kids joining, better coaches, etc.. That would be the positive spin. The negative spin would be it gives Molson more marketing ammunition, more sweater sales, more merchandise, perhaps cuts on TV and radio deals, and so on. I don't know what an affiliation agreement means for an NHL team, so I can't really say how much he would get out of it, but he's laid off 60% of his staff during this quarantine period, while other teams are paying full salaries. So we know he's cheap. As for why have an ECHL affiliate at all, I'm not sure I understand the question. Montreal didn't have an affiliate last year, which led to the whole McNiven fiasco in that there was no where for him to play. Even when assigned to an ECHL team - and he was assigned to a couple - he didn't get any game time because there were already goalies ahead of him, who were affiliated with other NHL teams. Having their own ECHL affiliated team would have prevented that. In the end, in my humble opinion, it's a tempest in a tea pot. Yeah, McNiven got screwed last year, and yeah I feel bad for him. He seems like a good kid, very driven, and from a very tough background. You cheer for guys like that. But the odds of him even making the NHL were always going to be slim, and we're talking about one guy, not an entire team. Again, it's unfortunate situation and I do feel bad for him, and I am cheering for him to succeed, but I don't think they intentionally set out to screw him over.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Apr 23, 2020 8:08:17 GMT -5
As for the Demchenko signing, the hopeful view is that Bergevin is trying to accumulate as many options as possible at the goalie position so he can eventually deal Price.
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Apr 23, 2020 10:45:04 GMT -5
Agreeing with BC I don't think the Habs intentionally had anything against McNiven it just happened that he fell behind Lindgren and Primeau in guys they wanted to develop in the AHL. Montreal had a tough time even filling out an AHL roster last season and signed some journeymen just to fill spots. Laval is a very young team and most of the top outside those are continuing to develop in Europe. Hopefully they do get an ECHL team soon
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