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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 2, 2020 10:48:55 GMT -5
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Post by folatre on May 2, 2020 12:14:28 GMT -5
Therrien's man management skills are poor. He was always on the lookout for moments to tear guys down. If he was such a great coach, someone would have hired him in 2017-18. No one called. Or in 2018-19, no one called. Or in 2019-20, no one called so he took Vigneault's offer to be an assistant. Let's be honest, standing behind the bench during the greatest years of Carey Price's career was fortuitous for Therrien.
Babock is the same type of animal by all accounts, but the advantage he has is that he won the Stanley Cup twice as well as the good fortune to inflate his resume with Team Canada conquests, so odds are if he wants a new start somewhere he will probably get it.
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Post by jkr on May 2, 2020 13:14:49 GMT -5
Babcock has been to the Finals 3 times, twice with the Wings & once with the Ducks but I'm pretty sure he has only won one Cup, with Detroit in 2008.
They beat Pittsburgh that year with Therrien behind the bench for the Pens.
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Post by folatre on May 2, 2020 15:59:39 GMT -5
Good call, jkr. For some reason I thought Babcock was still there when the Ducks won the Cup.
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Post by jkr on May 2, 2020 18:05:37 GMT -5
Part of the Babcock myth.
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Post by UberCranky on May 2, 2020 18:36:29 GMT -5
Therrien's man management skills are poor. He was always on the lookout for moments to tear guys down. If he was such a great coach, someone would have hired him in 2017-18. No one called. Or in 2018-19, no one called. Or in 2019-20, no one called so he took Vigneault's offer to be an assistant. Let's be honest, standing behind the bench during the greatest years of Carey Price's career was fortuitous for Therrien. Babock is the same type of animal by all accounts, but the advantage he has is that he won the Stanley Cup twice as well as the good fortune to inflate his resume with Team Canada conquests, so odds are if he wants a new start somewhere he will probably get it. MThead was 50 years too late for his coaching style......if yelling was ever a "style". If there was any doubt, those behind the scenes video erased any and all doubt. I thought that I would never see his face in the NHL but it looks like it was another "buddy" thing by Vigneault. Which right there is a really good reason to never let Vigneault anywhere near the Habs. Patronism has no business in ANY business.
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Post by BadCompany on May 3, 2020 8:08:46 GMT -5
MThead was 50 years too late for his coaching style......if yelling was ever a "style". So there is this coach in Laval, goes by the name of Joel...
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Post by seventeen on May 3, 2020 12:38:20 GMT -5
MThead was 50 years too late for his coaching style......if yelling was ever a "style". So there is this coach in Laval, goes by the name of Joel... I don't know anything about Bouchard's coaching style. He's supposed to be a teacher. Yelling is one thing, I guess but tearing down is another. I don't care at all for yelling either. It doesn't accomplish anything. What do we actually know about Bouchard's style? Is it sustainable?
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Post by UberCranky on May 3, 2020 13:35:23 GMT -5
One should not confuse tough with yelling.
Scotty Bowman was tough, didn't yell.
In my experience, raised voice can be a "schock" to get attention, but it's effectiveness in inversely proportionate to its use. Used rarely, it's an "event", used often, it's worthless and aggravating noise.
Although, my uncle George did get results yelling at his donkey all the time. Turns out the donkey was mostly deaf.....
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Post by folatre on May 3, 2020 19:35:00 GMT -5
My son’s coach this season (third year mite) was a serious yeller. But it did not bother me because he did not swear or express negativity to the kids under any circumstance. He was just loud and a high energy presence all the time. And the boys loved it, they improved and learned, they enjoyed their hockey and they played like a team. Jeje, they were not quite the ‘76-77 Canadiens but they finished second in a tough league, won two regional tournaments and posted something like a 27-7-3 record. I do not know much about Bouchard. He seems like a good teacher for guys who buy in. Does he give each kid an equal chance to buy in? I don’t know. Does he treat everyone with respect? I don’t know. For me Therrien and Babcock seem to cross the line. Plenty of guys who played for them after they retired came out and said those two disrespected and demeaned the people who played for them. Okay I get it, those guys are old school and they were dealing with professional adults in a results oriented environment, but I still think it is counterproductive and simply not the way to get the best out of people even if those subordinates are men. But for kids, that stuff would be way out of bounds. A few years ago, my nephew was playing at the Bantam level and his coach was a Therrien type, just berating kids on the bench, in the room, and all that. One game he was just ripping into my nephew because even though he was huge for a 14 year old he did not play physically and the ***hat coach yelled something like “you f***ing p***y that’s three checks you didn’t finish this period.” And Mack did not get a single shift over the last twenty-five minutes of the game. My sister was livid, she was waiting in the parking lot for the dude and my brother in law had to hold her back.
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Post by seventeen on May 4, 2020 17:47:28 GMT -5
Although, my uncle George did get results yelling at his donkey all the time. Turns out the donkey was mostly deaf..... Which is exactly what happens to human beings when you yell at them constantly.
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Post by seventeen on May 4, 2020 17:49:20 GMT -5
"Therrien put too much pressure on his players".
I put that through the Google BS translator and it came out
"Therrien was an A$$hole".
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Post by Willie Dog on May 4, 2020 20:05:15 GMT -5
The only thing I know about Bouchard is what KK said about him.... I'm good with that.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 4, 2020 21:05:58 GMT -5
Although, my uncle George did get results yelling at his donkey all the time. Turns out the donkey was mostly deaf..... Which is exactly what happens to human beings when you yell at them constantly. "They're flogged soldiers, sir, and flogging teaches a soldier only one lesson ... How to turn his back."- Richard Sharpe
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Post by HABsurd on May 4, 2020 21:32:37 GMT -5
Which is exactly what happens to human beings when you yell at them constantly. "They're flogged soldiers, sir, and flogging teaches a soldier only one lesson ... How to turn his back."- Richard SharpeLove that quote from “Sharpe’s Company” !
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Post by seventeen on May 5, 2020 0:39:05 GMT -5
The beatings will continue until morale improves. An oldie but goodie.
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Post by habsorbed on May 5, 2020 10:49:38 GMT -5
We may all be relieved MT is in the rearview mirror - as he was bad on so many levels, including his bullying. But one has to wonder about the culture that remains. After all, MT's bosses approved of his treatment of players and did nothing about it for years. I remember watching the behind the scenes show a few years back (Habs 24?) and being stunned at the way MT berated his players, PK in particular - and that was only the stuff they let us see. The bosses knew this was going on. The bosses create the environment and the culture - Molson and MB failed miserably with MT. Is it still going on?
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Post by jkr on May 5, 2020 11:16:50 GMT -5
I remember being hopeful when Bergevin was hired but when it became apparent that Therrien was being rehired, It just baffled me. He had already been fired by the Habs & the only people to hire him after that was RDS.
Bergevin's bad decision making was on display early.
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Post by folatre on May 5, 2020 11:35:51 GMT -5
Therrien was coach of Pittsburgh for approximately 250 games when Crosby, Malkin, and Letang were just getting rolling. They had that one playoff run to the Finals but otherwise not much success at least in terms of meeting the expectations Shero and Lemieux had for the Pens.
He is just one of those guys that wears out his welcome. Guys tune him out over time even when the ledger of wins/losses seems stable. I remember finding it curious that back in January/February 2017 the leadership group (Price, Pacioretty, Weber, Plekanec) met with Bergevin and told him that Therrien needs to go.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 5, 2020 12:16:15 GMT -5
"They're flogged soldiers, sir, and flogging teaches a soldier only one lesson ... How to turn his back."- Richard Sharpe Love that quote from “Sharpe’s Company” ! You nailed it, buds, well done ... when I think of 'flogging' type coaches I think of Michel Therrien and Mike Babcock ... when I think of authoritarian coaches I think of Pat Burns ... like Therrien/Babcock, Burns ran a tight ship; however, unlike Therrien/Babock, Burns didn't humiliate his players ... he was tough on them, sure, but he was consistently tough across the board ... Therrien may have had four 100-point seasons, but he's won nothing ... Babcock is part of the 'Triple Gold Club' in that he has a Cup, a world championship, and an Olympic gold medal, but if he had what it takes he'd still be in the league today, IMHO ... while Burns wasn't part of the "Triple Gold Club", he did win a Cup and no less than 3 Jack Adams trophies; the latter being something neither Therrien or Babcock could accomplish ... he was tough, yes, but IMHO he knew 'how' to be tough and while he was strict, it didn't involve 'flogging' ... not every 'leader' understands this ... Joel Bouchard? Couldn't tell you, man ... Cheers.
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Post by CentreHice on May 6, 2020 10:45:03 GMT -5
While 6 other NHL coaches fired/replaced during the regular season have watched the new coach go on to win the Cup that same year, Therrien's the only one to have gone to the previous season's Finals with that same franchise. He was so close to having a dream run. That Pens' team arguably could've won at least 2 straight had Halak not put on a playoff display for the ages in 2010.
===========================================================================
Winning the Cup after replacing the coach during the season was almost non-existent in the 20th century--occurring only twice.
But 5 times so far since 2000.
1932. Toronto. Dick Irvin replaces Art Duncan.
1971. Montreal. Claude Ruel steps down. Asst. coach Al MacNeil takes over. Starts Dryden vs. the Bruins.
2000. New Jersey. Lou cans Robbie Ftorek with 8 games left in the season. Big Bird takes the Devils to the Cup.
2009. Pittsburgh. Dan Bylsma replaces Michel Therrien.
2012. Los Angeles. Darryl Sutter replaces Terry Murray/John Stevens.
2016. Pittsburgh. Mike Sullivan replaces Mike Johnston.
2019. St. Louis. Craig Berube replaces Mike Yeo.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on May 6, 2020 20:06:49 GMT -5
"Therrien put too much pressure on his players". I put that through the Google BS translator and it came out "Therrien was an A$$hole". Don’t yell at the players and give them all participation trophies. I was born too long ago!
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