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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 1, 2020 20:20:58 GMT -5
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Post by GNick99 on Aug 2, 2020 8:33:19 GMT -5
I think Pitt will win. But you tell we are close to them. Guys like Weal, Weise, Ouellett, Mete, in lineup we don't have the depth. In near future, can see these guys replaced by Romanov, Juullsen, Caufield, types. Be major upgrade in team
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Post by GNick99 on Aug 2, 2020 9:03:01 GMT -5
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Post by folatre on Aug 2, 2020 9:50:56 GMT -5
For sure, the Habs were not outplayed by a large margin. The Penguins had some success on the cycle but Malkin kind of went media pila after the first ten minutes or so. I would imagine he is going to watch the tape and not care much for his effort. And their third line (the one with McCann and Marleau) was pretty dreadful so I would not be surprised if Sullivan tells them now or never boys, play invisible Monday and you spend game three in the press box.
It will be a battle tomorrow night, basically a must-win for Pittsburgh.
I hope for the sake of both teams that no one gets injured. That situation with Scheifele is bad. Hockey is debatable but I sure thought it looked like the rat Tkachuk lifted his skate in an unnatural manner and chopped down hard on an area where everyone knows players have no protection. It's weird, old man Tkachuk was a pretty tough SOB (and a great goal scorer) but my recollection was that he never had a reputation for being cheap. Man, his boys are something else.
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Post by GNick99 on Aug 2, 2020 9:53:50 GMT -5
Canadiens different team since Koktaniemi returned from Joel in Laval. Suzuki maturity this season. Makes better team. Both those 20 year old. Will get even better. Danault will be third line center in future. Make team strong down the middle
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Post by Willie Dog on Aug 2, 2020 10:35:10 GMT -5
For sure, the Habs were not outplayed by a large margin. The Penguins had some success on the cycle but Malkin kind of went media pila after the first ten minutes or so. I would imagine he is going to watch the tape and not care much for his effort. And their third line (the one with McCann and Marleau) was pretty dreadful so I would not be surprised if Sullivan tells them now or never boys, play invisible Monday and you spend game three in the press box. It will be a battle tomorrow night, basically a must-win for Pittsburgh. I hope for the sake of both teams that no one gets injured. That situation with Scheifele is bad. Hockey is debatable but I sure thought it looked like the rat Tkachuk lifted his skate in an unnatural manner and chopped down hard on an area where everyone knows players have no protection. It's weird, old man Tkachuk was a pretty tough SOB (and a great goal scorer) but my recollection was that he never had a reputation for being cheap. Man, his boys are something else. They're assholes, both of them.. cant stand either one.
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Post by Willie Dog on Aug 2, 2020 10:36:11 GMT -5
Canadiens different team since Koktaniemi returned from Joel in Laval. Suzuki maturity this season. Makes better team. Both those 20 year old. Will get even better. Danault will be third line center in future. Make team strong down the middle Danault will only be a 3rd line centre when Clode is gone... he loves him.
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Post by Skilly on Aug 2, 2020 11:21:10 GMT -5
Canadiens different team since Koktaniemi returned from Joel in Laval. Suzuki maturity this season. Makes better team. Both those 20 year old. Will get even better. Danault will be third line center in future. Make team strong down the middle Danault will only be a 3rd line centre when Clode is gone... he loves him. Danault would be the best third line center in the league. Everyone always clamours about how well he keeps players in check ...well yeah, that IS the primary role of your THIRD line center, not your first line center. You want your first line, playing against their lower lines, not against their best .
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Post by jkr on Aug 2, 2020 11:41:13 GMT -5
For sure, the Habs were not outplayed by a large margin. The Penguins had some success on the cycle but Malkin kind of went media pila after the first ten minutes or so. I would imagine he is going to watch the tape and not care much for his effort. And their third line (the one with McCann and Marleau) was pretty dreadful so I would not be surprised if Sullivan tells them now or never boys, play invisible Monday and you spend game three in the press box. It will be a battle tomorrow night, basically a must-win for Pittsburgh. I hope for the sake of both teams that no one gets injured. That situation with Scheifele is bad. Hockey is debatable but I sure thought it looked like the rat Tkachuk lifted his skate in an unnatural manner and chopped down hard on an area where everyone knows players have no protection. It's weird, old man Tkachuk was a pretty tough SOB (and a great goal scorer) but my recollection was that he never had a reputation for being cheap. Man, his boys are something else. At first glance I couldn't figure out why Maurice was so mad. But it's a sneaky kind of hit & you're right, their father was tough but he wasn't a rat. I'm not usually a proponent of vigilante justice but Tkachuk needs to lose some teeth in the next game. I can't stand Drew Doughty but he's right about the guy.
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Post by BadCompany on Aug 2, 2020 12:12:01 GMT -5
Danault will only be a 3rd line centre when Clode is gone... he loves him. Danault would be the best third line center in the league. Everyone always clamours about how well he keeps players in check ...well yeah, that IS the primary role of your THIRD line center, not your first line center. You want your first line, playing against their lower lines, not against their best . That's more of an old-school line of thinking. Nobody has checking third lines anymore, because you don't want your third liners playing 20-22 minutes a night in power matchups against Crosby/McDavid/Ovechkin etc.. A "classic" third line would be something like Lehkonen - Danault - Byron/Armia, right? That's actually a pretty solid defensive line, one that could probably match up against the best lines in the league and hold their own. But do you want those guys playing 22 minutes a night? I don't. While the Selke trophy has drifted into "best defensive forward who gets a lot of points" there is a certain logic to that madness. You still have to score goals to win games, so if you can do both, play defensively AND chip in offensively, that makes you an extremely valuable player, worthy of top line minutes. Which Phil Danault is. The Selke nominees this year are Sean Couturier, Patrice Bergeron, and Ryan O'Reilly. You give Phil Danault the linemates those guys have an I am sure he would crack 70 points a year. And that's not a third liner. According to capfriendly the linemates for those three nominees were:
Bergeron - Pastrnak Giroux - Voracek Sanford - Perron (Tarasenko injured for most of the year, normally he plays with O'Reilly)
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Post by Willie Dog on Aug 2, 2020 12:18:46 GMT -5
Danault will only be a 3rd line centre when Clode is gone... he loves him. Danault would be the best third line center in the league. Everyone always clamours about how well he keeps players in check ...well yeah, that IS the primary role of your THIRD line center, not your first line center. You want your first line, playing against their lower lines, not against their best . I like Danault a lot, but I dont want him holding back the future because of Clode wanting to play not to lose
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 2, 2020 12:25:35 GMT -5
I remember them putting Jaroslav Spacek on every time Alex Ovechkin hit the ice and it was an effective strategy ... like 17, I do like that defence corps ...
Cheers.
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Post by Willie Dog on Aug 2, 2020 13:04:10 GMT -5
I remember them putting Jaroslav Spacek on every time Alex Ovechkin hit the ice and it was an effective strategy ... like 17, I do like that defence corps ... Cheers. Spacek and Hamrlik were an effective pairing, both strong solid guys who could play the body and win board battles
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Post by UberCranky on Aug 2, 2020 13:41:24 GMT -5
From over half a century as Hab fan that knows the difference between winning and losing.....this is the first time in my life that I seriously want them to lose.
Get back to this point next year with Laffy getting his first exposure along with Romanov and whoever graduates next season, then I'm lighting candles and growing a playoff beard.
May the Hockey Gods forgive me....
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Post by Skilly on Aug 2, 2020 14:00:24 GMT -5
Danault would be the best third line center in the league. Everyone always clamours about how well he keeps players in check ...well yeah, that IS the primary role of your THIRD line center, not your first line center. You want your first line, playing against their lower lines, not against their best . That's more of an old-school line of thinking. Nobody has checking third lines anymore, because you don't want your third liners playing 20-22 minutes a night in power matchups against Crosby/McDavid/Ovechkin etc.. A "classic" third line would be something like Lehkonen - Danault - Byron/Armia, right? That's actually a pretty solid defensive line, one that could probably match up against the best lines in the league and hold their own. But do you want those guys playing 22 minutes a night? I don't. While the Selke trophy has drifted into "best defensive forward who gets a lot of points" there is a certain logic to that madness. You still have to score goals to win games, so if you can do both, play defensively AND chip in offensively, that makes you an extremely valuable player, worthy of top line minutes. Which Phil Danault is. The Selke nominees this year are Sean Couturier, Patrice Bergeron, and Ryan O'Reilly. You give Phil Danault the linemates those guys have an I am sure he would crack 70 points a year. And that's not a third liner. According to capfriendly the linemates for those three nominees were:
Bergeron - Pastrnak Giroux - Voracek Sanford - Perron (Tarasenko injured for most of the year, normally he plays with O'Reilly)Who is more likely to get 70 points WITH decent line mates Danault, Kotkaniemi or Suzuki? Danault is #3 when you use that argument. In fact, Danault has played with 70 point wingers and couldn’t garner said points
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Post by seventeen on Aug 2, 2020 14:03:42 GMT -5
From over half a century as Hab fan that knows the difference between winning and losing.....this is the first time in my life that I seriously want them to lose. Get back to this point next year with Laffy getting his first exposure along with Romanov and whoever graduates next season, then I'm lighting candles and growing a playoff beard. May the Hockey Gods forgive me.... See? That's the right attitude. We get accused of not being 'real' Hab fans when really all we have is a longer term vision and the realization of what it takes to get there. Even if we don't hit the lottery ball, we'd be guaranteed a9th overall pick and this year, that's a top six forward, top 4 Dman, or probably even better. I do not want, in 3 years time, to be thinking, "Geeze, if only we had Jarvis or Holz, how good could this team be?" I'd be playing every young kid I could. Weal, Weise, Oulette, all press box. Play the kids, give them some experience and hope they make mistakes.
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Post by seventeen on Aug 2, 2020 14:09:29 GMT -5
That's more of an old-school line of thinking. Nobody has checking third lines anymore, because you don't want your third liners playing 20-22 minutes a night in power matchups against Crosby/McDavid/Ovechkin etc.. A "classic" third line would be something like Lehkonen - Danault - Byron/Armia, right? That's actually a pretty solid defensive line, one that could probably match up against the best lines in the league and hold their own. But do you want those guys playing 22 minutes a night? I don't. While the Selke trophy has drifted into "best defensive forward who gets a lot of points" there is a certain logic to that madness. You still have to score goals to win games, so if you can do both, play defensively AND chip in offensively, that makes you an extremely valuable player, worthy of top line minutes. Which Phil Danault is. The Selke nominees this year are Sean Couturier, Patrice Bergeron, and Ryan O'Reilly. You give Phil Danault the linemates those guys have an I am sure he would crack 70 points a year. And that's not a third liner. According to capfriendly the linemates for those three nominees were:
Bergeron - Pastrnak Giroux - Voracek Sanford - Perron (Tarasenko injured for most of the year, normally he plays with O'Reilly)Who is more likely to get 70 points WITH decent line mates Danault, Kotkaniemi or Suzuki? Danault is #3 when you use that argument. In fact, Danault has played with 70 point wingers and couldn’t garner said points The year he centred Pacioretty and Radulov, Danault got 40 points in 82 games. Yes, neither Pacioretty or Radulov scored 70 points that year, but perhaps they were held back? I like Danault a lot and I think the Selke Trophy has been bastardized. Gainey never got a whack of points yet was unquestionably the best defensive forward. Would he even get nominated today? So while Bergeron, O'Reilly and Couturier are excellent defensive forwards as well as good scorers, guys like Danault shouldn't be penalized because they don't score as much. A case could be made for Lars Eller or other guys who don't score a bunch but prevent a lot (Pageau and probably a number of others I'd have to research).
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Post by Skilly on Aug 2, 2020 14:10:00 GMT -5
99.1 Sports tweeted that Alex Lafreniere may not even want to play in Montreal because the media is too tough on Québécois. If I translated the tweet correctly
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Post by Skilly on Aug 2, 2020 14:14:33 GMT -5
Who is more likely to get 70 points WITH decent line mates Danault, Kotkaniemi or Suzuki? Danault is #3 when you use that argument. In fact, Danault has played with 70 point wingers and couldn’t garner said points The year he centred Pacioretty and Radulov, Danault got 40 points in 82 games. Yes, neither Pacioretty or Radulov scored 70 points that year, but perhaps they were held back? I like Danault a lot and I think the Selke Trophy has been bastardized. Gainey never got a whack of points yet was unquestionably the best defensive forward. Would he even get nominated today? So while Bergeron, O'Reilly and Couturier are excellent defensive forwards as well as good scorers, guys like Danault shouldn't be penalized because they don't score as much. A case could be made for Lars Eller or other guys who don't score a bunch but prevent a lot (Pageau and probably a number of others I'd have to research). Pacioretty got 67 points that year. And Domi had 72 on his line primarily. The issue, IMO, is that yes Danault is good 5v5 and yes he can shadow ... but he is a PP black hole. He will never get 70 points.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 2, 2020 15:20:17 GMT -5
We get accused of not being 'real' Hab fans I've never worried about what other fans thought of me ... hyper-judgmental trolls such as, Jack Todd, live for this kind of stuff, but to be honest, this should never bother anyone ... If they get past Pittsburgh then the only thing that would salvage the season is the Cup ... imagine losing in the Cup final only to see Alex Lafreniere in Pittsburgh ... To me, Dale Weise represents commitment ... he's been around the NHL block a few times, and he understands what it takes to get (back) to the show ... he's coming around, but Ryan Poehling would probably be in the lineup right now if he had the same commitment Weise had right from the start ... unlike Weise, he initially didn't take his assignment to Laval very well ... conversely, Weise took it in stride, as he's done before ... would I play Poehling in Montreal; absolutely, but he'll have to earn it and keep it ... Cheers.
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Post by UberCranky on Aug 2, 2020 18:35:50 GMT -5
While some of us grew up with the Richards and knew what hunger to do better, to scarifice, to achieve, I'm concerned that some of the youngsters no longer have that.
All their teen years, players like Laffy have the world telling them how good they are, where are their nightmares for failure?
There is pride, yes, there is pride in proving something, but there is no bigger driver then the fear of failure. The fear that wakes you up and keeps you awake.
The Richards had a fear....and anger.
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Post by seventeen on Aug 2, 2020 21:03:38 GMT -5
99.1 Sports tweeted that Alex Lafreniere may not even want to play in Montreal because the media is too tough on Québécois. If I translated the tweet correctly I'd say they love their guys who meet expectations and work hard. That love can often turn to reverence, so I don't think his fears are warranted.
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Post by folatre on Aug 2, 2020 21:44:10 GMT -5
The year he centred Pacioretty and Radulov, Danault got 40 points in 82 games. Yes, neither Pacioretty or Radulov scored 70 points that year, but perhaps they were held back? I like Danault a lot and I think the Selke Trophy has been bastardized. Gainey never got a whack of points yet was unquestionably the best defensive forward. Would he even get nominated today? So while Bergeron, O'Reilly and Couturier are excellent defensive forwards as well as good scorers, guys like Danault shouldn't be penalized because they don't score as much. A case could be made for Lars Eller or other guys who don't score a bunch but prevent a lot (Pageau and probably a number of others I'd have to research). Pacioretty got 67 points that year. And Domi had 72 on his line primarily. The issue, IMO, is that yes Danault is good 5v5 and yes he can shadow ... but he is a PP black hole. He will never get 70 points. Skilly, I totally agree with you that Suzuki and Kotkaniemi have considerably more offensive talent than Danault and would thus be far likelier to hit 70 points than him. But I am a little confused on the observation you make about Domi. Domi never played with Pacioretty because they were never on the same team. And last year Domi played centre so he basically never played with Danault.
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Post by PTH on Aug 3, 2020 7:21:27 GMT -5
99.1 Sports tweeted that Alex Lafreniere may not even want to play in Montreal because the media is too tough on Québécois. If I translated the tweet correctly I'd say they love their guys who meet expectations and work hard. That love can often turn to reverence, so I don't think his fears are warranted. It won't just be about his on-ice play, it can be the whole recognition when buying a pint of milk kind of thing, too. Some guys don't crave constant recognition every moment of their lives...
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Post by BadCompany on Aug 3, 2020 7:46:43 GMT -5
I'd say they love their guys who meet expectations and work hard. That love can often turn to reverence, so I don't think his fears are warranted. It won't just be about his on-ice play, it can be the whole recognition when buying a pint of milk kind of thing, too. Some guys don't crave constant recognition every moment of their lives... In that respect this might be the perfect year to get a potential local star; no fans in the stands, bars and restaurants half-closed, everybody wearing masks...
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Post by BadCompany on Aug 3, 2020 7:54:00 GMT -5
That's more of an old-school line of thinking. Nobody has checking third lines anymore, because you don't want your third liners playing 20-22 minutes a night in power matchups against Crosby/McDavid/Ovechkin etc.. A "classic" third line would be something like Lehkonen - Danault - Byron/Armia, right? That's actually a pretty solid defensive line, one that could probably match up against the best lines in the league and hold their own. But do you want those guys playing 22 minutes a night? I don't. While the Selke trophy has drifted into "best defensive forward who gets a lot of points" there is a certain logic to that madness. You still have to score goals to win games, so if you can do both, play defensively AND chip in offensively, that makes you an extremely valuable player, worthy of top line minutes. Which Phil Danault is. The Selke nominees this year are Sean Couturier, Patrice Bergeron, and Ryan O'Reilly. You give Phil Danault the linemates those guys have an I am sure he would crack 70 points a year. And that's not a third liner. According to capfriendly the linemates for those three nominees were:
Bergeron - Pastrnak Giroux - Voracek Sanford - Perron (Tarasenko injured for most of the year, normally he plays with O'Reilly)Who is more likely to get 70 points WITH decent line mates Danault, Kotkaniemi or Suzuki? Danault is #3 when you use that argument. In fact, Danault has played with 70 point wingers and couldn’t garner said points That would make him a 3rd line center on this team. Danault was also only 23 when he played with those guys. And as we have seen, he's a late bloomer. It happens. If you want to flip it, both Tatar and Gallagher had career years with Danault as their center...
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Post by Skilly on Aug 3, 2020 8:24:50 GMT -5
Pacioretty got 67 points that year. And Domi had 72 on his line primarily. The issue, IMO, is that yes Danault is good 5v5 and yes he can shadow ... but he is a PP black hole. He will never get 70 points. Skilly, I totally agree with you that Suzuki and Kotkaniemi have considerably more offensive talent than Danault and would thus be far likelier to hit 70 points than him. But I am a little confused on the observation you make about Domi. Domi never played with Pacioretty because they were never on the same team. And last year Domi played centre so he basically never played with Danault. My bad on Domi. Forgot he was a center last year But that kinda makes it worse. Our first line players can’t crack 60 points? My point since Suzuki made the team, is and will always be that Danault should not stunt the development of the future first and second line centers. And we can argue about the pros and cons of Danault’s potential, but his potential is no where near what Suzuki and Kotkaniemi ‘s potential is. It’s time for this team to hand the reigns over. Let them grow.
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Post by mikeg on Aug 3, 2020 9:08:38 GMT -5
It's beginning to feel like we are gonna be cup contenders and the Laffs or Pens will end up drafting Lafreniere. Ride the hot goalie, grind out the games and have your character guys perform a miracle or two.
Would you rather have a cup run or see a hated rival get the next big blue chipper? At this point, I'll take the cup runner and daydream about what could have been.
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Post by folatre on Aug 3, 2020 9:23:30 GMT -5
Mike, while I watch the games I always want the Habs to win. But thinking about it objectively during an intermission or after the game, this organization needs high end difference makers more than it needs a playoff cameo in a bubble.
If Montreal upsets Pittsburgh, I just do not see the horses to slug it out against Tampa or Washington or whoever in the round of 16. I suppose, in fairness, Price could be the wildcard because when he plays like he did Saturday night then the Habs would have a chance. However, since Price hit age 30, he just does not seem capable of playing lights out night after night after night like he did back in his dominating prime.
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Post by BadCompany on Aug 3, 2020 9:48:21 GMT -5
Mike, while I watch the games I always want the Habs to win. But thinking about it objectively during an intermission or after the game, this organization needs high end difference makers more than it needs a playoff cameo in a bubble. If Montreal upsets Pittsburgh, I just do not see the horses to slug it out against Tampa or Washington or whoever in the round of 16. I suppose, in fairness, Price could be the wildcard because when he plays like he did Saturday night then the Habs would have a chance. However, since Price hit age 30, he just does not seem capable of playing lights out night after night after night like he did back in his dominating prime. I actually feel the same way, though it may not seem like it. Of course I want Lafreniere - who wouldn't? But realistically we still have 87.5% chance of NOT getting him, so I'm trying to temper my enthusiasm. And while adding another top 10 pick would of course be good, I'm not as sold on it being a difference maker as some are. Granted, I'm not a scout or anything, so take that for what it's worth, but again, realistically, getting a 40 goal scorer at 9th is a bit of a stretch. Could happen, but the odds aren't great. Which isn't to say thay we won't get a very good prospect at #9, just that I am still tempering my enthusiasm. Heck, I'd even consider shopping the 9th overall, just to see what could happen. Having said all that, my only point through all of this is that winning is not necessarily going to be the end of the world (and I don't think we're going to win). Especially not when you consider we won the last game "the right way". Which is to say with Nick Suzuki and to a lesser extent Jesperi Kotkaniemi leading the way, and with our biggest cap hit playing the biggest role. That's what you want to see, right? For the good of the franchise over the next 3-5 years? I'd be quite disappointed if we won 4-3 with Dale Weise and Jordan Weal doing all the scoring and Carey Price giving up 3 goals on 17 shots. But that didn't happen, so I still think we can look at this one win as a positive.
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