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Post by mikeg on Sept 2, 2020 11:24:01 GMT -5
Canadiens acquire Jake Allen and a 7th-round pick in 2022 from the Blues in return for a 3rd- and 7th-round pick in 2020. goha.bs/2EW4ohFBackup issues solved. Allen has 1 year left on a deal that pays him 4.25 Mil I think. We have the space, weren’t gonna be able to use it all... trade just makes sense. I like it.
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Post by Willie Dog on Sept 2, 2020 11:36:02 GMT -5
Good pick up... hopefully Waite can work some magic with Allen.
Allen is a UFA at the end of 20-21... so not sure if we move him at the deadline and bring up Primeau or MB signs him...
Ideally trade Allen at the deadline, if we're out, then platoon Price and Primeau.
This removes any chance of an offer sheet since we only have 4 mill in cap space...
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 2, 2020 11:39:16 GMT -5
You're fast, dude, well done ... I like the deal ... it's a deal that's good for both teams ... Montreal gets Jake Allen for a 3rd and St Louis shaves $4,350,000 off their cap (and they needed it) ... what's next ...
Cheers.
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Post by BadCompany on Sept 2, 2020 11:49:48 GMT -5
Long rumoured, finally happened. Basically Allen for a 3rd.
Really, this is the ideal outcome. We get a guy for one year only, who should be able to make 25-30 starts. After which Primeau (or Demchenko?) should be able to step in. We'll have to acquire a goalie at some point for next year's expansion draft, so the full cost will not yet be known (I suspect we'll have to make another deal that will cost us a 5th-7th), but we might be able to recuperate some of that in a Lindgren and/or McNiven trade.
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Post by Andrew on Sept 2, 2020 11:52:51 GMT -5
He had a great season last year as a full time backup goalie (2.15 GAA and .927% in 24 games played). Prior to that he had two poor seasons while shouldering more of the load between the pipes (in the neighborhood of 2.75 GAA / .905% and 50 ish games). With just shy of $15M of our cap devoted to net-minders we'd better have a strong showing!
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Post by Tankdriver on Sept 2, 2020 11:54:23 GMT -5
This is a eh? feeling to it. It's not a good deal per say as I think we could of gotten a good back up this summer as a FA, plus we lose 4.5 cap space. Since St- Louis was pushing near the cap with Pietrangelo needing a new contract, I was thinking we might of been able to get a good pick out of them...
Instead it didn't really cost us much for a good player. I would give this a fair grade. Now if we somehow trade Domi, Fleury and Lindgren for Laine....I'll be happy.
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Post by Douper on Sept 2, 2020 11:57:48 GMT -5
Carey is going to Seattle next year. If Allen shows he can handle the spotlight, he and hopefully Primeau will be able to do the job.
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Post by mikeg on Sept 2, 2020 13:40:25 GMT -5
Carey is going to Seattle next year. If Allen shows he can handle the spotlight, he and hopefully Primeau will be able to do the job. This is the hottest of takes. I like it.
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Post by folatre on Sept 2, 2020 13:44:52 GMT -5
Sorry Mike, I did not see your post.
Allen is a talented goalie and has career numbers which prove it. Let's hope that we see the good Jake Allen, which he consistently was in 2019-20. Let's also hope that Bergevin has talked to Price and Julien about the need to reduce Price's workload and make sure that Allen can get in a rhythm with his role on the team.
It would not make much sense to pay (remember this isn't a case where Armstrong is adding a sweetener of any kind) to acquire a backup goalie who will eat 5.34 percent of the Habs' cap space in 2020-21 unless the plan is to get him at least 25 starts. If Price is leading the league again in games started and minutes then I do not quite get it. Price's regular season numbers since he turned 30 years old have been very underwhelming; he does not thrive under a heavy workload.
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Post by drkcloud on Sept 2, 2020 14:07:20 GMT -5
Carey is going to Seattle next year. If Allen shows he can handle the spotlight, he and hopefully Primeau will be able to do the job. Wow, I could totally see that happening
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Post by mikeg on Sept 2, 2020 14:12:58 GMT -5
Credit goes to Andrew Zadarnowski (@azadarski) on Twitter for this one, So, the net effect is: 3rd rounder in 1992, 2nd rounder in 2016, a 4th rounder in 2019, & Ilya Kovalchuk for: Tomas Tatar, Nick Suzuki, Jake Allen, two 2nds in 2020, a 7th in 2022, and a 3rd & 4th in 2021
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Post by GNick99 on Sept 2, 2020 16:58:06 GMT -5
Allen is what we needed. But think Habs paid full blown retail. I would take 4.3 million in UFA and keep 3rd pick. Should get one of best backups in game for 4.3 million. When Primeau is ready, I would flip that guy for another pick. Gives us 2 additional picks.
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Post by GNick99 on Sept 2, 2020 17:00:24 GMT -5
This is a eh? feeling to it. It's not a good deal per say as I think we could of gotten a good back up this summer as a FA, plus we lose 4.5 cap space. Since St- Louis was pushing near the cap with Pietrangelo needing a new contract, I was thinking we might of been able to get a good pick out of them... Instead it didn't really cost us much for a good player. I would give this a fair grade. Now if we somehow trade Domi, Fleury and Lindgren for Laine....I'll be happy. Trade likely takes out of free agency this summer. Unless a major trade coming. Bergs has to go into off season with a plan.
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Post by folatre on Sept 2, 2020 19:30:39 GMT -5
There could be other pieces in motion this off-season. But, yeah, this trade certainly suggests that Bergevin does not see any hope of making a big splash with Hall, Barzal, or Dubois.
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Post by GNick99 on Sept 2, 2020 19:44:32 GMT -5
There could be other pieces in motion this off-season. But, yeah, this trade certainly suggests that Bergevin does not see any hope of making a big splash with Hall, Barzal, or Dubois. If I was him I would have a plan going into off season. Talking with other teams he would know who is available and costs to get them. Talking to agents he would know which of his free agents will sign here and costs. Could be multiply player deal coming. He could also stand pat. After adding Allen. Knowing he will get help on blueline with Romanov and Juulsen. See at trade deadline what is available. I am hedging a major trade coming.
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Post by Skilly on Sept 2, 2020 21:14:58 GMT -5
The question is how much will Allem play, and what record does everyone expect in those games ... He is a career 0.594 points percentage goaltender, but his recent years are regressing lower. In 2018/19 for instance he garnered 46 points in 45 starts (46 GP) . In 2017/18 he got 57 points in 56 starts (59GP)
So don't get too excited about last year's 21 starts.
I've said it before and I'll say it again... 30-35 games with 0.500 backup means we miss the playoffs, EVERY. SINGLE. TIME
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Post by UberCranky on Sept 2, 2020 23:24:40 GMT -5
We may have a better goaltending duo, but it's also costing 15 million.
Also....there goes half the salary of a serious offer sheet. Dubois looks like a fantasy that can not happen.....
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Post by habsorbed on Sept 3, 2020 2:04:45 GMT -5
Dumb move if this means we can't pick up some top 6 forwards to score. We learned last month we cannot win with world class goaltending. So even if Allen is a great backup it won't be enough. And given MB's record in getting a good back up I'm not hopeful. If we look at all the posts after MB picked up last years bust back up we'll see the same false optimism. I'd much rather take my chances on goalies currently in the system and get offence.
WE NEED TOP 6 WHO CAN SCORE which costs money and now MB has blown valuable cap space. This is a bad deal even if Allen plays well.
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Post by mikeg on Sept 3, 2020 7:46:09 GMT -5
We may have a better goaltending duo, but it's also costing 15 million. Also....there goes half the salary of a serious offer sheet. Dubois looks like a fantasy that can not happen..... Technically we have 4,391,667.00 in salary coming off the books due to buyouts and retained salary (Kovalchuk, MAson, Kinkaid and Scandella) so that money was wisely reinvested into a backup for Carey. I would much rather have that settled than pin my hopes on an underbid for an RFA that another club will match.
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Post by BadCompany on Sept 3, 2020 8:57:45 GMT -5
We may have a better goaltending duo, but it's also costing 15 million. Also....there goes half the salary of a serious offer sheet. Dubois looks like a fantasy that can not happen..... Technically we have 4,391,667.00 in salary coming off the books due to buyouts and retained salary (Kovalchuk, MAson, Kinkaid and Scandella) so that money was wisely reinvested into a backup for Carey. I would much rather have that settled than pin my hopes on an underbid for an RFA that another club will match. I agree. It was a position of need, and they filled it. Yeah, it kind of sucks to be paying $15 million for goalies, but there was no way around that. Either they spent the money, or they tried to go cheap again. We've seen how that works. Using capfriendly, I signed Max Domi to a $6 million contract extension (which is big), and gave minimal raises to all our other RFAs (Juulsen, Mete, Evans). I ended up with a shade under $5 million in cap space. Enough to be a player in the second tier market. BUT, that's with Domi and his $6 million extension. Subtract that and Bergevin has almost $11 million to chase big fish (assumedly to replace Domi). I did not make any other moves (like buy out Alzner or trade Weal, for example). It's not a great market for UFAs this year, with Hall being the Big Gun. What are the realistic odds that he signs with us? Given that teams are allowed to go over the cap during the off-season it's still possible to make an RFA offer to somebody like Dubois and then trade Domi at your leisure. So that shouldn't stop Bergevin either (not that I think it will happen, but still, it's possible). So all that to say this doesn't really stop us from making a big splash, if the opportunity arises.
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Post by Bobs_HABit on Sept 3, 2020 10:11:03 GMT -5
It's a bad move. How many teams are going to be struggling with their caps the next few seasons and we gave away a very valuable $4M in cap space at least for one season ($2.5-3M considering you need to pay someone to play backup G) and we actually paid for it by sending a 3rd. This is the type of deal that St Louis should be sweetening the pot. If no money is involved than a 3rd for Allen is great but guess what, in today's NHL, that's not how this works. Without this move, St Louis is sitting at $79.5M for next season with only 5 d-men and wanting to resign their Captain. They're the ones that need to make this move and others. You can argue we've needed a real backup forever which is true but it's Bergy's job to find one a better way.
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Post by mikeg on Sept 3, 2020 10:27:34 GMT -5
Technically we have 4,391,667.00 in salary coming off the books due to buyouts and retained salary (Kovalchuk, MAson, Kinkaid and Scandella) so that money was wisely reinvested into a backup for Carey. I would much rather have that settled than pin my hopes on an underbid for an RFA that another club will match. I agree. It was a position of need, and they filled it. Yeah, it kind of sucks to be paying $15 million for goalies, but there was no way around that. Either they spent the money, or they tried to go cheap again. We've seen how that works. Using capfriendly, I signed Max Domi to a $6 million contract extension (which is big), and gave minimal raises to all our other RFAs (Juulsen, Mete, Evans). I ended up with a shade under $5 million in cap space. Enough to be a player in the second tier market. BUT, that's with Domi and his $6 million extension. Subtract that and Bergevin has almost $11 million to chase big fish (assumedly to replace Domi). I did not make any other moves (like buy out Alzner or trade Weal, for example). It's not a great market for UFAs this year, with Hall being the Big Gun. What are the realistic odds that he signs with us? Given that teams are allowed to go over the cap during the off-season it's still possible to make an RFA offer to somebody like Dubois and then trade Domi at your leisure. So that shouldn't stop Bergevin either (not that I think it will happen, but still, it's possible). So all that to say this doesn't really stop us from making a big splash, if the opportunity arises. Yup I was looking at that as well. The morning show was all abuzz about going after Laine. Realistically we could make Winnipeg an offer that would fill their needs (a D, a C, a pick or two). Something around Domi+D+Prospect+1st, but our D depth is just not strong enough to make something happen for them I think, Carolina has more of what they need. I can't see Winnipeg wanting less than Petry in the deal and if you remove Petry from this team we are in a helluva lot of trouble. But... he is not getting younger...
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Post by folatre on Sept 3, 2020 10:46:42 GMT -5
Mike, I agree that there is not enough depth to subtract one of the Habs main d-men unless the idea is to get younger, keep retooling and not obsess about whether the 2020-21 season concludes with a playoff appearance.
Petry has a 15 no trade clause in his contract, so the reality is what it is for Winnipeg. They are always on those lists as reliably as death and taxes.
It would be exciting to acquire a behemoth sniper like Laine, but it would cost a lot of assets. And, moreover, I am not sure Bergevin has sorted out the medium-term strategic plan in his own mind so bringing in Laine who would require a long-term deal in the $9.5-10 million range when he may not even know which veterans needing new deals that he is willing part ways with just seems unlikely right now. On the other hand, if Bergevin was Belichekian and secretly knew that he was going to reward Gallagher for all the hard miles by trading him then you could start to see the contours of how Montreal could add an elite big ticket player such as Laine while also preserving enough cap space to avoid bridging kids like Suzuki and Kotkaniemi.
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Post by Tankdriver on Sept 3, 2020 10:58:33 GMT -5
Mike, I agree that there is not enough depth to subtract one of the Habs main d-men unless the idea is to get younger, keep retooling and not obsess about whether the 2020-21 season concludes with a playoff appearance. Petry has a 15 no trade clause in his contract, so the reality is what it is for Winnipeg. They are always on those lists as reliably as death and taxes. It would be exciting to acquire a behemoth sniper like Laine, but it would cost a lot of assets. And, moreover, I am not sure Bergevin has sorted out the medium-term strategic plan in his own mind so bringing in Laine who would require a long-term deal in the $9.5-10 million range when he may not even know which veterans needing new deals that he is willing part ways with just seems unlikely right now. On the other hand, if Bergevin was Belichekian and secretly knew that he was going to reward Gallagher for all the hard miles by trading him then you could start to see the contours of how Montreal could add an elite big ticket player such as Laine while also preserving enough cap space to avoid bridging kids like Suzuki and Kotkaniemi. Well Laine is signed for next season, so the problem doesn't arrive until after next season. You can easily not resign Tatar or Gallagher(unlikely) and with say Domi likely traded, that covers Laine's salary. I think he uses the need to plan long term ahead excuse too much. Things change on the dime. You need to be proactive, and not reactive. Yes the Leafs look bad with 4 guys making up half their cap, but their GM is always being active looking to win now and worry about next season after. And to be honest, without covid happeneing the cap would of raised another 2 or 3 million, so the Leafs would of felt less and less the squeeze as time went on.
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Post by habsorbed on Sept 3, 2020 11:06:04 GMT -5
It's a bad move. How many teams are going to be struggling with their caps the next few seasons and we gave away a very valuable $4M in cap space at least for one season ($2.5-3M considering you need to pay someone to play backup G) and we actually paid for it by sending a 3rd. This is the type of deal that St Louis should be sweetening the pot. If no money is involved than a 3rd for Allen is great but guess what, in today's NHL, that's not how this works. Without this move, St Louis is sitting at $79.5M for next season with only 5 d-men and wanting to resign their Captain. They're the ones that need to make this move and others. You can argue we've needed a real backup forever which is true but it's Bergy's job to find one a better way. Yup! And what makes it even dumber is that there will be goalies all over the market this off-season, so it is a buyer's market. And as usual MB is paying way too much for a back-up goalie who could easily regress. Let's see how much other goalies will be getting but I'm not sold on Allen being the great back up and I'm certainly not sold on paying a back up that kind of money. If we need a back up so badly because they will be required to play so many games given the condensed season then play one of the prospects. They won't be sitting around as usual for back ups but getting regular starts. I'm predicting another Alzner-like bust. At least we'll only be stuck for one season with the salary but we will have lost an opportunity to improve this team's offence before Weber and Carey fade away.
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Post by GNick99 on Sept 3, 2020 12:13:39 GMT -5
Bergevin got the guy he wanted. He addressed biggest need on team. Never had to roll the dice in free agency. Now he can concentrate on other matters.
I think Allen be good fit. He was good backup to Binnington last year. As a #1 goalie his numbers not so good. But as backup to Price, Allen should be good fit.
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Post by BadCompany on Sept 3, 2020 12:42:13 GMT -5
It's a bad move. How many teams are going to be struggling with their caps the next few seasons and we gave away a very valuable $4M in cap space at least for one season ($2.5-3M considering you need to pay someone to play backup G) and we actually paid for it by sending a 3rd. This is the type of deal that St Louis should be sweetening the pot. If no money is involved than a 3rd for Allen is great but guess what, in today's NHL, that's not how this works. Without this move, St Louis is sitting at $79.5M for next season with only 5 d-men and wanting to resign their Captain. They're the ones that need to make this move and others. You can argue we've needed a real backup forever which is true but it's Bergy's job to find one a better way. Yup! And what makes it even dumber is that there will be goalies all over the market this off-season, so it is a buyer's market. And as usual MB is paying way too much for a back-up goalie who could easily regress. Let's see how much other goalies will be getting but I'm not sold on Allen being the great back up and I'm certainly not sold on paying a back up that kind of money. If we need a back up so badly because they will be required to play so many games given the condensed season then play one of the prospects. They won't be sitting around as usual for back ups but getting regular starts. I'm predicting another Alzner-like bust. At least we'll only be stuck for one season with the salary but we will have lost an opportunity to improve this team's offence before Weber and Carey fade away. What goalie would you sign?
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Post by UberCranky on Sept 3, 2020 12:50:03 GMT -5
Carey is going to Seattle next year. If Allen shows he can handle the spotlight, he and hopefully Primeau will be able to do the job. Everyone is expandable.... On one hand...oh my God, Price signed with us and he's our lifer.....except he signed for a nice, huge, ginormous fat cantract that sets him for life with just ONE year of that salary. So....there is no issues that the team also does what is best for itself.
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Post by UberCranky on Sept 3, 2020 13:00:23 GMT -5
Laine is streaky and inconsistent. He may score 50...or he may score 25.
Just like Drouin, but far worse on terms of cost.
There isn't the slightest doubt that i rather give that money to Dubois. NONE. ZERO. The 4 1st in the 20th round are not going to make a difference.
Dubois along with Kk and Suzuki will push us to contenders door. A few more trades and we're contenders.
When was the last time that this was even a dream?
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Post by PTH on Sept 3, 2020 13:18:24 GMT -5
I'm ok with Allen, I was hoping we'd be getting some assets to take on that cap rather than giving up a pick.
That being said, Berg has gone the cheap route with backups and it's cost us playoff spots in the past, so getting a legit NHL goalie is a win.
I could even see us extending him during the year, so we have a signed goalie to expose in the expansion draft. Heck, a legit signed NHL goalie might well be of interest.
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My secret hope was actually that we'd get Fleury with some retention. Oh well.
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