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Post by Skilly on Sept 12, 2020 17:11:34 GMT -5
To Habs : Joel Edmundson
To Hurricanes : 5th rounder 2020 (139th overall)
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Post by Skilly on Sept 12, 2020 17:14:39 GMT -5
Edmundson is a UFA once the playoffs are over. Gotta think MTL and Edmundson had talks prior to trading
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Post by Andrew on Sept 12, 2020 17:39:22 GMT -5
Looks like another Chiarot in terms of size and point totals. Can he skate or defend? Who is leaving to make room for him? By how much will MB over-pay to sign before he goes to market? Will our prospects on D ever get ice time to develop? So many questions.
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Post by folatre on Sept 12, 2020 17:57:23 GMT -5
Edmundson is a pretty decent d-man. He does not skate nearly as well as Chiarot and if my memory serves me right he has always had a tendency to take dumb penalties. Maybe Luke Richardson can work with him on that latter issue.
I have no problem with having this guy on the roster, though I wonder if by getting the rights to negotiate early Bergevin is willing to hand out a multi-year deal, otherwise the negotiations would go nowhere and he would simply test the market. I would have loved 1 year/$3 million to buy the kids time. I could live with 2 years/$5 million. But I have a bad feeling we will be reading that it's 3 years/$9 million.
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Post by habsorbed on Sept 12, 2020 18:03:58 GMT -5
This has got Alzner replay written all over it. He is not a top 4 and we can't be paying 5th or 6th anywhere near $2million let alone $3 million plus which I'm guessing MB will fork over. Much better to let Fleury and Juulsen develop at less than a million.
Slowly but surely MB is eating a way at our cap space which was a huge asset that should be used to land an elite player.
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Post by GNick99 on Sept 12, 2020 19:16:44 GMT -5
To Habs : Joel Edmundson To Hurricanes : 5th rounder 2020 (139th overall) Just heard, sounds like good trade. Another Chariot or Scandella. Weber improve him be able to flip Edmunsdon for double what we gave up.
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Post by drkcloud on Sept 12, 2020 19:56:55 GMT -5
Bergevin probably spent the 5th to show how much he loves his game and wants him to sign. Seems like a bit of a waste. If Edmundson wants to be in Montreal, he would wait til UFA day.
I guess this way the player will actually take his call... Maybe
Not convinced he's coming unless we massively overpay over other offers
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Post by seventeen on Sept 12, 2020 20:02:21 GMT -5
I liked Edmundson when he was in St. Louis. We were really weak on D at that time. It cost little of course, which is Berg’s MO. Value Village purchase.
I wonder if some of our kids are being moved. Average age going up. Experoence level increasing. Prelude to ‘all in’ moves?
That's assuming, of course, that he signs Edmundson. Joel's last two contracts were for $3MM and $3.1MM. A bit expensive IMO. Rigt in Chiarot territory, so if you want another Chiarot, I guess you'll be hoping Bergie signs him.
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Post by folatre on Sept 12, 2020 20:33:16 GMT -5
Of the fringe type guys, Mete may be standing on the thinnest ice. Though, in fairness, Mete has shown some versatility playing both sides so it is not crazy to pencil him as the potential #7 d-man for 2020-21. I believe that Mete passed 160 NHL games so he cannot go to Laval without be lost on waivers.
Kulak had a good post-season, thus I would imagine he did not hurt his standing in the estimation of management and coaches.
There is nothing wrong with letting Romanov start the season in Laval if he looks like a transition period is needed.
The only thing that worries me is eating significant cap space ($3 million) for multiple seasons (three or god forbid four) when Edmundson is arguably not much better than most third pair guys in the league when there is actually plenty of organizational depth on the left side not far away from being in the conversation.
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Post by jkr on Sept 12, 2020 20:54:48 GMT -5
I liked Edmundson when he was in St. Louis. We were really weak on D at that time. It cost little of course, which is Berg’s MO. Value Village purchase. I wonder if some of our kids are being moved. Average age going up. Experoence level increasing. Prelude to ‘all in’ moves? I don't know why he does these deals. They have young D men in the pipeline that didn't get a chance during the bubble to play behind some one like Ouelette. Now he spends a pick on a 27 year old who has probably reached his ceiling.
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Post by jkr on Sept 12, 2020 21:00:23 GMT -5
Of the fringe type guys, Mete may be standing on the thinnest ice. Though, in fairness, Mete has shown some versatility playing both sides so it is not crazy to pencil him as the potential #7 d-man for 2020-21. I believe that Mete passed 160 NHL games so he cannot go to Laval without be lost on waivers. Kulak had a good post-season, thus I would imagine he did not hurt his standing in the estimation of management and coaches. There is nothing wrong with letting Romanov start the season in Laval if he looks like a transition period is needed. The only thing that worries me is eating significant cap space ($3 million) for multiple seasons (three or god forbid four) when Edmundson is arguably not much better than most third pair guys in the league when there is actually plenty of organizational depth on the left side not far away from being in the conversation. Agreed. IMO it's unnecessary tinkering at a spot, where as you point out, it isnt needed.
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Post by UberCranky on Sept 12, 2020 22:03:00 GMT -5
We got another Chiarot, maybe even a meaner version.
The problem is that this officialy wipes out ANY offer sheets. Period. So the chance to really improve the team amounts to getting a 5-6 defenseman.
Bbinz basically went bargain bin hunting and achieved absolutely nothing to improve the team. For all intents and purposes, Kulak had consistency problems but looked like he was turning the corner as a to 6. Plus he won't cost us the 4 million that Edmy probably wants.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Sept 12, 2020 22:08:34 GMT -5
I liked Edmundson when he was in St. Louis. We were really weak on D at that time. It cost little of course, which is Berg’s MO. Value Village purchase. I wonder if some of our kids are being moved. Average age going up. Experoence level increasing. Prelude to ‘all in’ moves? I don't know why he does these deals. They have young D men in the pipeline that didn't get a chance during the bubble to play behind some one like Ouelette. Now he spends a pick on a 27 year old who has probably reached his ceiling. the plan is build through the draft or pickup fringe players or maybe no plan at all?
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Post by UberCranky on Sept 12, 2020 22:19:25 GMT -5
This has got Alzner replay written all over it. He is not a top 4 and we can't be paying 5th or 6th anywhere near $2million let alone $3 million plus which I'm guessing MB will fork over. Much better to let Fleury and Juulsen develop at less than a million. Slowly but surely MB is eating a way at our cap space which was a huge asset that should be used to land an elite player. Bbinz is building the defense in his image...slow, slow witted, tough. Exactly what his playing career was, barely qualified journeyman...aka, hot garbage.
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Post by UberCranky on Sept 12, 2020 22:20:54 GMT -5
Bbinz is spending 8 plus million on two players.....please put your hand up if you believe it moved us out of mediocrity.
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Post by UberCranky on Sept 12, 2020 22:36:15 GMT -5
Just a thought and by no means a justification....what if Bbinz pulled this move so he can send Chiarot to the Jets for Ehlers or Laine?
Impossible...to much thinking and plotting for Bbinz...
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Post by Willie Dog on Sept 12, 2020 22:48:55 GMT -5
This has got Alzner replay written all over it. He is not a top 4 and we can't be paying 5th or 6th anywhere near $2million let alone $3 million plus which I'm guessing MB will fork over. Much better to let Fleury and Juulsen develop at less than a million. Slowly but surely MB is eating a way at our cap space which was a huge asset that should be used to land an elite player. MB is playing it safe... and CJ is a co-conspirator... they are always in win now mode even when we dont have much of a chance to win... when it comes to building a winner these guys have no clue...
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Post by seventeen on Sept 13, 2020 0:50:03 GMT -5
For such a minor deal, Bergevin is getting a lot of attention and Twitter is abuzz with potential trades, blah, blah. He spent a 5th round pick for the right to talk to Edmundson. That's all that has taken place so far. No one is playing 4D chess.
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Post by GNick99 on Sept 13, 2020 5:47:18 GMT -5
Bbinz is spending 8 plus million on two players.....please put your hand up if you believe it moved us out of mediocrity. Should help yup. Depth for Carey Price with condensed schedule. Size and physical on bottom pairing. Solid chance Weber improves him, then Edmundson be gone at some point for a 2nd or 3rd. Probably around a future trade deadline. Which year I am not sure of?
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Post by GNick99 on Sept 13, 2020 5:51:47 GMT -5
Just a thought and by no means a justification....what if Bbinz pulled this move so he can send Chiarot to the Jets for Ehlers or Laine? Impossible...to much thinking and plotting for Bbinz... Jets need to rebuild their blueline. Habs need scoring wingers.
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Post by franko on Sept 13, 2020 7:07:02 GMT -5
Just a thought and by no means a justification....what if Bbinz pulled this move so he can send Chiarot to the Jets for Ehlers or Laine? Impossible...to much thinking and plotting for Bbinz... Jets need to rebuild their blueline. Habs need scoring wingers. can't see Chiarot going back to the Jets though after they waved bye-bye to him/let him go for nothing. stranger things have happened though.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Sept 13, 2020 10:35:31 GMT -5
We are well past the point of assessing Bergevin based on individual moves.
Joel Edmundson for a 5th? Sure great trade.
But show me what this team looks like in December or whenever next season starts and maybe I’ll have a different answer.
It’s all about the big picture now with Bergevin. What is the path to contention? What guys do we want to keep and build around and what guys are redundant and/or can be packaged to accelerate the process and plug other holes?
Bergevin is seriously on the clock as far as I’m concerned to turn this team into a winner. This trade means nothing on its own.
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Post by habsorbed on Sept 13, 2020 11:12:02 GMT -5
This has got Alzner replay written all over it. He is not a top 4 and we can't be paying 5th or 6th anywhere near $2million let alone $3 million plus which I'm guessing MB will fork over. Much better to let Fleury and Juulsen develop at less than a million. Slowly but surely MB is eating a way at our cap space which was a huge asset that should be used to land an elite player. MB is playing it safe... and CJ is a co-conspirator... they are always in win now mode even when we dont have much of a chance to win... when it comes to building a winner these guys have no clue... Yup! He does all these deals for lesser players which might make sense if you have a nucleus of elite players and you need to fill in some spots to ensure you have the surrounding parts and some depth to win the Cup. But there is no point in getting these players and paying dumb amounts at the dual expense of 1) eating up cap and preventing the acquisition of an elite player; and 2) not giving youth in the system an opportunity to play. GET SOME DAMN ELITE PLAYERS!!! Then you can justify filling in peripheral spots.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 13, 2020 14:21:18 GMT -5
We are well past the point of assessing Bergevin based on individual moves. Joel Edmundson for a 5th? Sure great trade. But show me what this team looks like in December or whenever next season starts and maybe I’ll have a different answer. It’s all about the big picture now with Bergevin. What is the path to contention? What guys do we want to keep and build around and what guys are redundant and/or can be packaged to accelerate the process and plug other holes? Bergevin is seriously on the clock as far as I’m concerned to turn this team into a winner. This trade means nothing on its own. The 5th rounder just gives him the opportunity to talk to JE before anyone else does. If Edmundson feels he wants to test the waters, then he'll wait to see what everyone else offers. A lot depends on a) what is Berg offering? b) what does JE and his agent think he can get on the open market and c) does JE think the Habs are going to be a contender any time soon? He's experienced winning with both St. Louis and the Canes. I'd guess he would want to stay on a .600 team.
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Post by Willie Dog on Sept 13, 2020 16:15:34 GMT -5
We are well past the point of assessing Bergevin based on individual moves. Joel Edmundson for a 5th? Sure great trade. But show me what this team looks like in December or whenever next season starts and maybe I’ll have a different answer. It’s all about the big picture now with Bergevin. What is the path to contention? What guys do we want to keep and build around and what guys are redundant and/or can be packaged to accelerate the process and plug other holes? Bergevin is seriously on the clock as far as I’m concerned to turn this team into a winner. This trade means nothing on its own. The only clock Bergevin has to worry about is the money clock... it strikes once a year and it's the amount of cap space he has made available to Molson.
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Post by Tankdriver on Sept 13, 2020 23:00:58 GMT -5
Another pointless move in a long list of underwhelming moves. Wake me up when he goes after an impact player and I am not talking about the soccer team.
He loves to waste cap space on fringe players. Bottom six and bottom 3 defense should always be filled internally through your draft or as a last piece. Juulsen, Fleury, Brook and Romanov deserve their chance. Just as Evan's, Poehling, Hudon up front.
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Post by GNick99 on Sept 14, 2020 7:52:05 GMT -5
Jets need to rebuild their blueline. Habs need scoring wingers. can't see Chiarot going back to the Jets though after they waved bye-bye to him/let him go for nothing. stranger things have happened though. Right on, Could be Mete going instead. Imagine along with a pick instead of Chiarot. Maybe a 3rd? Trading for Edmundson sounds like a defenseman going. He likes depth on blueline, but he'll likely have to expose either Kulak or Mete to waivers if he signs Edmundson Could be Flames also. They likely rebuilding their blueline. Rumours Gaudreau could be on way out. Habs looking for scoring wingers. Some connecting dots there
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Sept 14, 2020 8:26:00 GMT -5
We are well past the point of assessing Bergevin based on individual moves. Joel Edmundson for a 5th? Sure great trade. But show me what this team looks like in December or whenever next season starts and maybe I’ll have a different answer. It’s all about the big picture now with Bergevin. What is the path to contention? What guys do we want to keep and build around and what guys are redundant and/or can be packaged to accelerate the process and plug other holes? Bergevin is seriously on the clock as far as I’m concerned to turn this team into a winner. This trade means nothing on its own. Bergevin is so far past his best before date that I have no hope Molson wakes up. He should have been fired years ago for terrible management and inadequate results that another year of failure brings no hope. Molson doesn’t care about winning as much as he doesn’t want to admit his own mistakes.
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Post by BadCompany on Sept 14, 2020 9:43:35 GMT -5
"Meh" deal with potential, I guess. He'll almost certainly be overpaid, either in term or money, but that's not really a big deal. I don't see him going all Alzner, so even if you give him a 3 or 4 year deal he should be pretty easy to flip in a year or two, if necessary. Even at $4 million + per year we can easily retain salary to make it palatable, or simply take on another $4 million-slightly-overpaid-player in return. This shouldn't be a back-breaker by any stretch (any more than the Alzner deal, which hasn't been a back-breaker either).
As for depth, we have a lot on the left side, but not much of it young. Mete and Romanov, and everybody else is a few years away. Juulsen, Fleury, Brook, all righties, they're not in competition with Edmundson. I liked what I saw from Leskinen, but I guess the organization doesn't feel the same way.
Edmundson played 15+ minutes a night for a Stanley Cup winning team. He's big, fairly mobile, plays hard, and just turned 27. We've always complained that we're too easy to play against, so hopefully this helps mitigate that somewhat. According to capfriendly we still have close to $13 million in cap space, so that's not a problem. Even if we sign Edmundson to a $4 million deal there is still more than enough to acquire an elite player, though that would require dealing a Domi or Danault (which might happen anyways).
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Post by folatre on Sept 14, 2020 10:08:33 GMT -5
For me Bergevin should negotiate with the fifth round pick viewed as a sunk cost that should not really pressure Montreal to do a deal on Edmundson's terms.
Edmundson is decent and for sure it is nice to bring more size and snarl to the roster (though I would argue the forward group needs an infusion of heaviness more than the d-corps). But Edmundson struggles with the puck and struggles to avoid dumb penalties. According to the numbers Carolina was a team full of players who controlled play even strength and Edmundson stood out as a guy with terrible underlying numbers.
I would preserve cap space to avoid bridging Suzuki and Kotkaniemi. I would give Edmundson $4 million for one year but $4 million would be a serious overpay if term is added to the deal. Heck, in a flat cap landscape with many teams jammed up against the cap ceiling and many others not interested in spending real money, I think Edmundson should pop open a bottle of Dom Perignon if he can get his signature on something like 3 x 3.
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