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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 8, 2021 12:02:02 GMT -5
Not too much Dom Ducharme can do about this:
Christian Dvorak, LW, Day-To-Day
Tyler Toffoli, RW, *updated to IR
Joel Armia, RW, Day-to-Day
Jeff Petry, D, Day-to-Day
Sami Niku, D, Day-to-Day
Brendan Gallagher, RW, Day-to-Day
Josh Anderson, RW, Day-To-Day
Joel Edmundson, D, Week-to-Week
Paul Byron, RW, Indefinitely
Carey Price, G, Indefinitely
Shea Weber, D, Indefinitely
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Post by mikeg on Dec 8, 2021 12:57:29 GMT -5
These guys are all in for the tank
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 8, 2021 13:22:58 GMT -5
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 8, 2021 15:08:45 GMT -5
lol... That'll make Cranky change his name to SuperUberCranky  |
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 8, 2021 17:01:51 GMT -5
This roster dimly resembles the playoff run team.
Too many key personnel missing.
A bubble-team-at-best riding on Price's back waving Weber's sword...and it's gone.
Danault, Perry, Edmundson...big roles...unfilled?
Sure we had some big breaks, but everybody stepped up.
Instead of a sign of continued success, however, I thought/still think of it as more of an unexpected and unsustainable thrill. Much like 2010.
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Post by Scotty D on Dec 8, 2021 17:02:59 GMT -5
most of these guys just never got the time to heal effectively after that miracle run to the finals not to mention i wonder how many injuries these guys have are related to just overall mental strain on top of fatigue. the mind is a powerful thing and these guys all gotta be feelin pretty different than they were just 6 months ago. cant be easy on the mind to go so quickly to the cellar after almost the top of the world.
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Post by Cranky on Dec 8, 2021 19:23:54 GMT -5
most of these guys just never got the time to heal effectively after that miracle run to the finals not to mention i wonder how many injuries these guys have are related to just overall mental strain on top of fatigue. the mind is a powerful thing and these guys all gotta be feelin pretty different than they were just 6 months ago. cant be easy on the mind to go so quickly to the cellar after almost the top of the world. Absolutely agree. These guys are running on pain and desire. Right now, there isn't much desire for MORE pain when there is little chance of winning any given game. The worst season ever considering they are not as bad as the hellish record. |
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Post by habsorbed on Dec 9, 2021 0:16:56 GMT -5
They showed a stat last night that 65% of our salary cap is out with injury, now up to 70% with Dvo out. Don't see (m)any teams competing with those kind of injury problems. But still need to find an offensive stud!
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Dec 9, 2021 7:58:31 GMT -5
Yeah, it has been the perfect storm of a season so far. Way too short a turnaround from the Finals on guys that were likely on their last legs then. A lot of the core are also at the wrong end of their career, so it takes a much harder toll on those bodies. That is why some of those longer term deals are still very cringe worthy, and will definitely test the mettle of Gorton and the new GM.
Of course, the prospect of a high pick in front of the home crowd is a tantalizing consolation prize for a terrible season. The top end of this draft is pretty good.
Even when the Habs were just bubble teams, Beeg always seemed a bit hesitant in selling at the deadline. Instead, more often than not he liked to add fringe pieces that really did not have much impact in hindsight (they rarely do anyway). The scene is set for a new GM and management team to take a different approach to this deadline and actually see what they can get for assets.
Oh and Carey, take your time. And I am not just being cheeky here hoping for more tank. He should take the time he needs as this is a bit of a gong show season to jump right back into. For a highly competitive guy, this season could be tough on a guy wrestling with his own demons. It cannot be easy playing every night in this environment, especially for the guys who got a taste of the somewhat miracle run in the summer.
The Habs are not as bad as they are showing, but conversely with their lineup they are not as good as a Finals team either. This will be an interesting year in determining how they will look and compete going forward. The injuries actually help give some young guys some exposure too. Nothing like jumping in head first for Gorton and company.
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 9, 2021 8:11:25 GMT -5
Yeah, it has been the perfect storm of a season so far. Way too short a turnaround from the Finals on guys that were likely on their last legs then. A lot of the core are also at the wrong end of their career, so it takes a much harder toll on those bodies. That is why some of those longer term deals are still very cringe worthy, and will definitely test the mettle of Gorton and the new GM. Of course, the prospect of a high pick in front of the home crowd is a tantalizing consolation prize for a terrible season. The top end of this draft is pretty good. Even when the Habs were just bubble teams, Beeg always seemed a bit hesitant in selling at the deadline. Instead, more often than not he liked to add fringe pieces that really did not have much impact in hindsight (they rarely do anyway). The scene is set for a new GM and management team to take a different approach to this deadline and actually see what they can get for assets. Oh and Carey, take your time. And I am not just being cheeky here hoping for more tank. He should take the time he needs as this is a bit of a gong show season to jump right back into. For a highly competitive guy, this season could be tough on a guy wrestling with his own demons. It cannot be easy playing every night in this environment, especially for the guys who got a taste of the somewhat miracle run in the summer. The Habs are not as bad as they are showing, but conversely with their lineup they are not as good as a Finals team either. This will be an interesting year in determining how they will look and compete going forward. The injuries actually help give some young guys some exposure too. Nothing like jumping in head first for Gorton and company. I'm just happy we have a guy in a decision making position who has been involved in a situation like this and setup the team for success. If the Rags owner didn't flip out, Gorton would still be with the Rags. Their loss is our gain. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Dec 9, 2021 9:27:28 GMT -5
These seasons do happen from time to time, even for good teams. And I agree with the short turnaround after the Cup run but it didn't seem to impact Tampa as much as us.
I remember the Flyers used to have these huge swings where they would be a first place team one year and go in the toilet the next season and grab a top pick.
So the season may be a write-off and injuries didn't help, but that doesn't mean there weren't already issues with the roster and the draft/development track record. Sometimes it takes a season like this to shed light on the problems.
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 9, 2021 10:00:26 GMT -5
These seasons do happen from time to time, even for good teams. And I agree with the short turnaround after the Cup run but it didn't seem to impact Tampa as much as us. I remember the Flyers used to have these huge swings where they would be a first place team one year and go in the toilet the next season and grab a top pick. So the season may be a write-off and injuries didn't help, but that doesn't mean there weren't already issues with the roster and the draft/development track record. Sometimes it takes a season like this to shed light on the problems. I also think fans were far more vocal this year, empty seats in the arena, media (other than Engels) were critical, the injuries just made a bad situation even worse... This is the best thing to happen to this team in a long, long time. If they did not have these injuries and Weber and Price were playing, we would not be seeing any of the kids, Berg would have most likely moved up or on and Melanby would have taken over and we would have had at least 5 more years of a "Anything can happen" team... NO thank you. |
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Post by folatre on Dec 9, 2021 11:36:07 GMT -5
I think Price should play if he is healthy. However, I do not think it will matter too much in terms of the standings. Montreal has played 1/3 of the season and has 15 points, which represents an insurmountable hole not only in terms of the playoffs but also in terms of escaping the bottom 10.
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 9, 2021 11:54:22 GMT -5
Sometimes it takes a season like this to shed light on the problems. The "problems" were obvious to me in 2015-16 when Price was done for the season on Nov. 25. Berg's build was exposed, but he had just signed his 2021-22 extension--on the coattails of Price's trophy haul. So, for those who say Berg didn't capitalize on Price's best....yes, HE did. |
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Post by PTH on Dec 9, 2021 12:28:54 GMT -5
Sometimes it takes a season like this to shed light on the problems. The "problems" were obvious to me in 2015-16 when Price was done for the season on Nov. 25. Berg's build was exposed, but he had just signed his 2021-22 extension--on the coattails of Price's trophy haul. So, for those who say Berg didn't capitalize on Price's best....yes, HE did. So, the problem is Gallagher, Byron, Price or Petry ? They're the only players still here from 15-16... |
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Post by Skilly on Dec 9, 2021 12:36:46 GMT -5
The "problems" were obvious to me in 2015-16 when Price was done for the season on Nov. 25. Berg's build was exposed, but he had just signed his 2021-22 extension--on the coattails of Price's trophy haul. So, for those who say Berg didn't capitalize on Price's best....yes, HE did. So, the problem is Gallagher, Byron, Price or Petry ? They're the only players still here from 15-16... The problem is the same as it has been for 20 years ..,. We need finishers. We need offense. What we are served, is a helping pile of sit back rope a dope hope our goalie (Theodore/Halak/Price) stops 40-50 shots and we win 2-1 |
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 9, 2021 13:47:48 GMT -5
So, the problem is Gallagher, Byron, Price or Petry ? They're the only players still here from 15-16... The problem is the same as it has been for 20 years ..,. We need finishers. We need offense. What we are served, is a helping pile of sit back rope a dope hope our goalie (Theodore/Halak/Price) stops 40-50 shots and we win 2-1 Yes, that's my point. Over-reliant on superb goalies. Not enough finish. It was obvious in 2015-16. The last Habs' scorer to finish close to the Top 10 in scoring: 2007-08. 34-year-old Alexei Kovalev. 11th. 84 pts. in 82 games. I know a GM can't just snap his fingers and land a Crosby, McDavid, Matthews..but it's been a LOONG time since a Hab was contending for the Art Ross. The lottery is the best shot at this juncture. Nobody has "elite finish" on the trading block. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Dec 9, 2021 15:01:24 GMT -5
There have been 75 fifty-goal scorers in the 30 years since Stephane Richer last did it for the Habs in 1989-90. I scanned the list and there are few very franchises that didn't have at least one 50-goal scorer in 30 years.
I really think this needs to part of the mission with Gorton. Yes it's all about winning, but nobody has won in the NHL won with more style and flair than the Montreal Canadiens. I think building around skill HAS to be one of the core tenets going forward. I don't know when or why this plodding, conservative, defense-first approach took hold in Montreal but it predates Bergevin. We had a brief glimpse of it with the Kovalev years but that was really just a tease.
The game is supposed to be exciting and fun to watch.
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Post by seventeen on Dec 9, 2021 15:36:58 GMT -5
These seasons do happen from time to time, even for good teams. And I agree with the short turnaround after the Cup run but it didn't seem to impact Tampa as much as us. I remember the Flyers used to have these huge swings where they would be a first place team one year and go in the toilet the next season and grab a top pick. So the season may be a write-off and injuries didn't help, but that doesn't mean there weren't already issues with the roster and the draft/development track record. Sometimes it takes a season like this to shed light on the problems. The usual reason for such swings is goaltending. Goalies just don't get enough respect. They don't get you back much in a trade and yet good goaltending is essential to win a Cup. (Notice I said good goaltening, got good goaltenders). They're like pitchers in baseball. Sometimes you can have a guy who is consistent and delivers every year (not many of those). Then like the bullpen, it often makes sense to turnover the entire bunch from one year to the next because a guy who had a great year, follows it up with a crappy year. OUr goaltending (comparing just the playoffs to this regular season) is night and day. The Lightning on the other hand is night and dusk. Vasilevsky is still playing well, though perhaps not to the level of the playoffs. They lost their entire 3rd line, Gourde, Coleman and Goodrow and yet they're still successful. That was probably the best 3rd line in the league. We lose Price and Weber and Danault and we collapse. Keep in mind too, that some of those lost players were self inflicted. Price and Weber to overplaying, Danault and Tatar to choice. It's not like it was bad luck...it was predictable and avoidable. |
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Post by Scotty D on Dec 9, 2021 17:11:29 GMT -5
These seasons do happen from time to time, even for good teams. And I agree with the short turnaround after the Cup run but it didn't seem to impact Tampa as much as us. I remember the Flyers used to have these huge swings where they would be a first place team one year and go in the toilet the next season and grab a top pick. So the season may be a write-off and injuries didn't help, but that doesn't mean there weren't already issues with the roster and the draft/development track record. Sometimes it takes a season like this to shed light on the problems. The usual reason for such swings is goaltending. Goalies just don't get enough respect. They don't get you back much in a trade and yet good goaltending is essential to win a Cup. (Notice I said good goaltening, got good goaltenders). They're like pitchers in baseball. Sometimes you can have a guy who is consistent and delivers every year (not many of those). Then like the bullpen, it often makes sense to turnover the entire bunch from one year to the next because a guy who had a great year, follows it up with a crappy year. OUr goaltending (comparing just the playoffs to this regular season) is night and day. The Lightning on the other hand is night and dusk. Vasilevsky is still playing well, though perhaps not to the level of the playoffs. They lost their entire 3rd line, Gourde, Coleman and Goodrow and yet they're still successful. That was probably the best 3rd line in the league. We lose Price and Weber and Danault and we collapse. Keep in mind too, that some of those lost players were self inflicted. Price and Weber to overplaying, Danault and Tatar to choice. It's not like it was bad luck...it was predictable and avoidable. the predictability factor was to a certain degree negated by the pandemic related adjustments to the playoff situation. It is easily argued (adnauseum already on the board) that if not for the buy in round versus pitsburgh was simply a hot price at the right time and had it not been for the shut down we weren't even a playoff team then the next season we finish 18th in the league go down 3 to 1 to the leafs and somehow the perrennial and absolutely without question franchise of all franchises that finds ways to lose does so and we go on a cinderella run only to turn into a pumpkin just before making it to the ball. that would have had us as 4 years absent from the post season. How many of the off season moves would have been made in the summer after beating the Pens would have been made considering it would be the third straight non playoff year ? Allen, Edmundson, Anderson ? do we sign guys like toffoli and extend gallagher ? i think those decisions are drastically different when your in the summer of a third straight no playoff year versus an upset win versus the pens that gives a sense of false hope. move into this summer and assuming many different decisions were made we were most assuredly not a playoff team as we barely were in the first place .. yet somehow the miracle run gives an even grander sense of false hope and identity within the organization of just what truly it is. many of us myself included saw this writing on the wall 3 or 4 years ago.. ol red said to andy Dufresne in Shawshank "hope is a dangerous thing ... it can drive a man insane ... its got no use in the inside you better get used to that idea" I once thought like Andy when referring to our Canadiens but just like brooks hatlen after 30 years of recycled nothing more than average teams i'm almost institutionalized. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 11, 2021 15:08:57 GMT -5
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Post by Cranky on Dec 11, 2021 15:51:48 GMT -5
This is why i have issues in how we jump into all kinds of conclusions to "run them out of town" and "tar and feather" without the full picture. This seasons Toffoli is a shadow of himself...and now we know why. Same with Petry and probably Ghally. |
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Post by habsorbed on Dec 11, 2021 15:54:53 GMT -5
One has to wonder how many of these injuries would have been treated this up coming summer (postpone surgery) if the season wasn't lost. I'm not faulting the players as there is no point risking further or worse injury by playing in a pointless season. Just wondering if there is a different decision when the balancing no longer includes the thought process of "gotta do what I can now to help this team make the playoffs and not let my teammates down".
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Post by Skilly on Dec 11, 2021 16:22:35 GMT -5
One has to wonder how many of these injuries would have been treated this up coming summer (postpone surgery) if the season wasn't lost. I'm not faulting the players as there is no point risking further or worse injury by playing in a pointless season. Just wondering if there is a different decision when the balancing no longer includes the thought process of "gotta do what I can now to help this team make the playoffs and not let my teammates down". You see the guy in net collecting 10.5 because he needs time to rebalance his Chi. And everyone wants in on that |
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Post by PTH on Dec 11, 2021 16:29:57 GMT -5
One has to wonder how many of these injuries would have been treated this up coming summer (postpone surgery) if the season wasn't lost. I'm not faulting the players as there is no point risking further or worse injury by playing in a pointless season. Just wondering if there is a different decision when the balancing no longer includes the thought process of "gotta do what I can now to help this team make the playoffs and not let my teammates down". Yup, same thought process here. They might as well get operated now and have a normal summer rather than suffer physically, suffer a losing season, and then rehab over the summer. |
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Post by drkcloud on Dec 11, 2021 16:44:20 GMT -5
This is why i have issues in how we jump into all kinds of conclusions to "run them out of town" and "tar and feather" without the full picture. This seasons Toffoli is a shadow of himself...and now we know why. Same with Petry and probably Ghally. Is there information suggesting it's an old injury he's been playing with all season? Seems to me he was playing like crap, THEN got hurt in his last game, and is now out. |
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 11, 2021 16:47:26 GMT -5
One has to wonder how many of these injuries would have been treated this up coming summer (postpone surgery) if the season wasn't lost. I'm not faulting the players as there is no point risking further or worse injury by playing in a pointless season. Just wondering if there is a different decision when the balancing no longer includes the thought process of "gotta do what I can now to help this team make the playoffs and not let my teammates down". You see the guy in net collecting 10.5 because he needs time to rebalance his Chi. And everyone wants in on that I will join you on minimizing his reported "very dark places" and "substance" issues to simply "needing to work on his inner chi" IF he makes an Olympic bid. Just a couple of weeks ago--Nov. 22nd--Team Canada GM Doug Armstrong said he'd be the starter if he has a successful NHL return. CBC |
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 11, 2021 17:36:58 GMT -5
This is why i have issues in how we jump into all kinds of conclusions to "run them out of town" and "tar and feather" without the full picture. This seasons Toffoli is a shadow of himself...and now we know why. Same with Petry and probably Ghally. Youre right we dont have the full picture and it's why we get mad and angry when a player plays like Saperlipopette. So why is Toffoli playing if he's hurt? Whose fault is that? Is it the coaches? Is it the players? Time for this organization to take the decision out of the players hand and that, to me, is in the teams and players best interest... this is what I hope Gorton (hereby known as The Commish) brings |
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Post by drkcloud on Dec 11, 2021 21:55:34 GMT -5
This is why i have issues in how we jump into all kinds of conclusions to "run them out of town" and "tar and feather" without the full picture. This seasons Toffoli is a shadow of himself...and now we know why. Same with Petry and probably Ghally. Youre right we dont have the full picture and it's why we get mad and angry when a player plays like Saperlipopette. So why is Toffoli playing if he's hurt? Whose fault is that? Is it the coaches? Is it the players? Time for this organization to take the decision out of the players hand and that, to me, is in the teams and players best interest... this is what I hope Gorton (hereby known as The Commish) brings Again, who says he played even one game when hurt? He looked like he was floating to me |
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Post by seventeen on Dec 12, 2021 2:21:04 GMT -5
This is why i have issues in how we jump into all kinds of conclusions to "run them out of town" and "tar and feather" without the full picture. This seasons Toffoli is a shadow of himself...and now we know why. Same with Petry and probably Ghally. Also makes me wonder about the drive for the Cup last year. How may guys were pumped up with uber pain killers and are paying the price now? That would explain this ridiculous run of injuries. You'd think a medical staff would have some ethics but I suspect this one was brow beaten into uselessness. |
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