|
|
Post by Cranky on Jul 12, 2022 13:12:14 GMT -5
Just a bit on the new arbitration rules. For player initiated, the results are binding. A team has a walk away right if the award is $4.53 million (rounded for ease) or greater, but has limited times it can do that. A team and a player that files can agree to a deal before the hearing, but once that hearing happens, the above kicks in. The rules are different for team initiated arbitration. It is the worst case scenario that has scared Hughes and other GMs away from guys. A lot of these players will be well below the walk away threshold so the results would be binding. So now it's binding? Then the no offer makes sense. If Pitlick thinks he's worth 3.5 million, good for him and good luck. |
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 14, 2022 14:46:53 GMT -5
In today’s presser, Hughes mentioned that he is still active in trying to move Petry. He said he had offers yesterday, but maintains that he does not want to have to give up picks/prospects or retain salary in the process. He is willing to wait, have Petry mentor and buffer the kids to start the season if he does not get a deal he likes.
At some point he will have to sign RFA Dach to his next deal. If will be a bridge as he really has not earned a long term deal yet. The Habs have just over $220K in cap space with 22 roster guys signed, as they do get dinged for last year’s performance bonuses (over $1.1 million that carries over to this year as they were over the cap at the end of the year due to LTIR) and Alzner’s second last year of buyout ($833K). So some dead cap space does not help. He can go over by 10% in the off-season but must be cap compliant by the start of the season. As such, even if he does not dump a contract right now, he pretty well has to by the fall to fit under the cap unless they start with someone on LTIR.
I hope he is reminding fellow GMs how awesome Armia looked at the Worlds. 😉
Heading to next season will be much better, as he can move at least the Drouin, Byron, Dadonov and perhaps Allen contracts at the deadline.
|
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jul 14, 2022 16:29:25 GMT -5
In today’s presser, Hughes mentioned that he is still active in trying to move Petry. He said he had offers yesterday, but maintains that he does not want to have to give up picks/prospects or retain salary in the process. He is willing to wait, have Petry mentor and buffer the kids to start the season if he does not get a deal he likes. At some point he will have to sign RFA Dach to his next deal. If will be a bridge as he really has not earned a long term deal yet. The Habs have just over $220K in cap space with 22 roster guys signed, as they do get dinged for last year’s performance bonuses (over $1.1 million that carries over to this year as they were over the cap at the end of the year due to LTIR) and Alzner’s second last year of buyout ($833K). So some dead cap space does not help. He can go over by 10% in the off-season but must be cap compliant by the start of the season. As such, even if he does not dump a contract right now, he pretty well has to by the fall to fit under the cap unless they start with someone on LTIR. I hope he is reminding fellow GMs how awesome Armia looked at the Worlds. 😉 Heading to next season will be much better, as he can move at least the Drouin, Byron, Dadonov and perhaps Allen contracts at the deadline. No one expects Price to play |
|
|
|
Post by habsask on Jul 14, 2022 17:07:33 GMT -5
In today’s presser, Hughes mentioned that he is still active in trying to move Petry. He said he had offers yesterday, but maintains that he does not want to have to give up picks/prospects or retain salary in the process. He is willing to wait, have Petry mentor and buffer the kids to start the season if he does not get a deal he likes. At some point he will have to sign RFA Dach to his next deal. If will be a bridge as he really has not earned a long term deal yet. The Habs have just over $220K in cap space with 22 roster guys signed, as they do get dinged for last year’s performance bonuses (over $1.1 million that carries over to this year as they were over the cap at the end of the year due to LTIR) and Alzner’s second last year of buyout ($833K). So some dead cap space does not help. He can go over by 10% in the off-season but must be cap compliant by the start of the season. As such, even if he does not dump a contract right now, he pretty well has to by the fall to fit under the cap unless they start with someone on LTIR. I hope he is reminding fellow GMs how awesome Armia looked at the Worlds. 😉 Heading to next season will be much better, as he can move at least the Drouin, Byron, Dadonov and perhaps Allen contracts at the deadline. No one expects Price to play Yes Skilly I certainly don't. At some point the brass has to sit down & have a heart to heart with him about retiring gracefully. Or at least being put on LTIR so he doesn't count on the cap although he'll still get paid. PS From today's Gazette: “I guess ultimately, from our perspective, whether he’s ready to go in September, October or November is less concerning than getting kind of a more permanent resolution to the situation, which is: Is he capable of being a full-time goalie in the National Hockey League or not?” Hughes added. “And when we get that, then we have clarity.” Sounds like Hughes is thinking same as us. |
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 14, 2022 18:11:46 GMT -5
Even if Price is not able to play once he gets on the ice and his knee inflames again, Hughes has to play by the rules and act as though the team is doing everything by the book so that if they go for LTIR/insurance, they don’t get challenged by the league. Hughes has been saying the correct things, but also planting enough doubt and uncertainty that it does not come out of the blue if needed.
|
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Jul 14, 2022 21:36:47 GMT -5
In today’s presser, Hughes mentioned that he is still active in trying to move Petry. He said he had offers yesterday, but maintains that he does not want to have to give up picks/prospects or retain salary in the process. He is willing to wait, have Petry mentor and buffer the kids to start the season if he does not get a deal he likes. At some point he will have to sign RFA Dach to his next deal. If will be a bridge as he really has not earned a long term deal yet. The Habs have just over $220K in cap space with 22 roster guys signed, as they do get dinged for last year’s performance bonuses (over $1.1 million that carries over to this year as they were over the cap at the end of the year due to LTIR) and Alzner’s second last year of buyout ($833K). So some dead cap space does not help. He can go over by 10% in the off-season but must be cap compliant by the start of the season. As such, even if he does not dump a contract right now, he pretty well has to by the fall to fit under the cap unless they start with someone on LTIR. I hope he is reminding fellow GMs how awesome Armia looked at the Worlds. 😉 Heading to next season will be much better, as he can move at least the Drouin, Byron, Dadonov and perhaps Allen contracts at the deadline. Solid points, NW. Indeed, Gorton and Hughes stepped into a total mess. If Price cannot play, well then obviously the immediate cap crunch gets alleviated. However, it is likelier that Price will muddle along and start the season on the roster. So in that case, the Habs will have no choice but to roll with a 20 or 21 man roster rather than a full strength 23 allotment. |
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 16, 2022 14:20:25 GMT -5
Could this be it?
|
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 16, 2022 14:31:31 GMT -5
Ouch.
|
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 16, 2022 15:02:49 GMT -5
This is actually decent value. Good depth signing. $1.1M aav
|
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jul 16, 2022 17:08:28 GMT -5
This is actually decent value. Good depth signing. $1.1M aav This is exactly the kind of thing I always got mad at Bergevin for. Sign the scrubs, before they sign Dach. They still have no idea how much they are going to need to get that done, but let’s sign fourth liners galore |
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jul 16, 2022 18:16:51 GMT -5
Hughes usually has a plan and a backup. I suspect there’s more to come. Plan A was to get PLD and then Ottawa screwed that up. Dach was plan B and he may even form part of another plan. There are still teams enquiring about Anderson & Dvorak. One of those guys moves and you have the Cap space for Dach.
|
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Jul 16, 2022 20:50:57 GMT -5
This is actually decent value. Good depth signing. $1.1M aav This is exactly the kind of thing I always got mad at Bergevin for. Sign the scrubs, before they sign Dach. They still have no idea how much they are going to need to get that done, but let’s sign fourth liners galore Pitlick is a UFA, though. So you can't just sign him when you get around to it, he might no longer be available. I'm going to give Hughes the benefit of the doubt and assume he chatted with the kids agent so they have some idea of mutual expectations. |
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jul 17, 2022 12:01:35 GMT -5
Hmm. I'm not really sold on this guy. I might need to watch him a bit more.
|
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 18, 2022 15:50:58 GMT -5
Monty get two years (one way) at $1 million aav. They can bury this contract if need be, but he is clearly their Price insurance policy “just in case”.
Hughes still has to move money out to get Dach signed. And if he does want to add a RHD, then is that a waiver wire move when teams are trying to sneak guys through to get their roster size compliant? Either way, he is still busy.
|
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Jul 18, 2022 16:07:11 GMT -5
Monty get two years (one way) at $1 million aav. They can bury this contract if need be, but he is clearly their Price insurance policy “just in case”. Hughes still has to move money out to get Dach signed. And if he does want to add a RHD, then is that a waiver wire move when teams are trying to sneak guys through to get their roster size compliant? Either way, he is still busy. I'm think Montembeault is in the AHL regardless, so no cap impact, but as you said, he's insurance for Price's eventual injury. And I'm thinking the RD will be in a trade for a bad contract up front - Armia or Hoffman, most likely. Dach ? It's scary we can't even sign our guys without shedding salary just when the cap is flat. |
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Jul 27, 2022 18:25:28 GMT -5
It would not surprise me if Montembeault starts more games than Price. But yeah I agree his re-signing provide the Habs an insurance policy. And I think giving Montembeault a two year one-way contract will reduce the chances that some club grabs him off waivers. Aside from Toronto, Montreal, the Rangers, and maybe a handful of other organizations, the vast majority of owners in the league do not accept paying their AHL goalie a $1 million USD as the price of doing business.
Next week is August and silence generally reigns, so I do not expect novelties in terms of the stayings and goings. This summer has surely been an eye-opener for GMs around the league trying to move out money. Good players, such as Bjorkstrand, representing fair value on their AAV are going for a pittance. And guys with bad contracts are essentially immovable.
It is not ideal, but assuming Hughes and Dach can agree on a number then in reality there is no reason not to just get him signed. Teams are allowed to be over the cap during the summer. And ultimately, given the impossibility of moving any of guys management wishes they could be rid of, the solution will likely be sending a couple vets down to the Rocket and thereby saving approximately $2.25 million in cap space. Many clubs are in a bind and will have to roll with 20 or 21 man rosters this season.
|
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Jul 28, 2022 17:01:27 GMT -5
Now management has a clear reference point for Dach's contract. New York signed Kakko, who was underwhelming over the three seasons on his ELC, for 2 years/$2.1 million AAV. Dach has been every bit as underwhelming so I cannot imagine him getting more than that.
|
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 28, 2022 17:23:23 GMT -5
Now management has a clear reference point for Dach's contract. New York signed Kakko, who was underwhelming over the three seasons on his ELC, for 2 years/$2.1 million AAV. Dach has been every bit as underwhelming so I cannot imagine him getting more than that. I think that is a decent comparable, although still not enough cap space yet. HuGo have until opening night to sort out the cap space though. It is not as if teams don’t already know the Habs cap situation with or without Dach signed, so I would get that done if the deal is there. |
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Jul 29, 2022 7:28:38 GMT -5
I think that is a decent comparable, although still not enough cap space yet. HuGo have until opening night to sort out the cap space though. It is not as if teams don’t already know the Habs cap situation with or without Dach signed, so I would get that done if the deal is there. Byron will almost certainly be starting the season on LTIR, so that should solve the cap problems (though by no means am I a capologist). By the time he is ready to come back there is a fair to decent chance somebody else will have to go on LTIR by then. So John Sedgewick should have another busy season of cap manipulation. But then that's why he gets the big bucks. It will depend on the return, of course, but I would be a little bit disappointed if Hughes makes another move this summer. He's already dealt Petry and Romanov when they were low, no need to deal anybody else at the bottom of their trade value. Hoffman, Drouin, Dvorak, Armia, Anderson, even guys like Edmundson and Savard, they are all coming off the worst years of their careers. Might as well give them at least a couple of months to prove that last year's tire fire has been put out, and that they are indeed better than that. |
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 29, 2022 10:02:22 GMT -5
Byron will almost certainly be starting the season on LTIR, so that should solve the cap problems (though by no means am I a capologist). By the time he is ready to come back there is a fair to decent chance somebody else will have to go on LTIR by then. So John Sedgewick should have another busy season of cap manipulation. But then that's why he gets the big bucks. It will depend on the return, of course, but I would be a little bit disappointed if Hughes makes another move this summer. He's already dealt Petry and Romanov when they were low, no need to deal anybody else at the bottom of their trade value. Hoffman, Drouin, Dvorak, Armia, Anderson, even guys like Edmundson and Savard, they are all coming off the worst years of their careers. Might as well give them at least a couple of months to prove that last year's tire fire has been put out, and that they are indeed better than that. I too am not a capologist, but there is one very troubling aspect about the Habs flirting with LTIR this season. They have potentially $5,070,000 in performance bonuses that may have to get paid out ($3,500,000 to Slafkovsky alone). That is the joy of so many top prospects on ELCs playing. That can be paid out of the 22-23 salary cap as long as there is space. If there is not space, that moves out and is essentially dead cap space for 23-24. The latter situation is not ideal due to the sheer magnitude of the maximum payout. The Habs face over $1.1 million of this for their 22-23 cap for example. Now this is where Sedgwick will earn his keep. Not all those performance bonuses will necessarily be met. The team will also have cap relief at the trade deadline when they move out pending UFAs, although they may retain up to 50% for three guys, and why not it sweetened the deals for HuGo last year. And there is the huge uncertainty as to whether Price can stay healthy or not. Be all these as they may, I still throw a huge caution about LTIR and its potential impact on performance bonuses, which are astronomically high this upcoming season. Oh, and Slafkovsky’s $3.5M performance bonuses are in all three years of his ELC. |
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Jul 29, 2022 13:06:42 GMT -5
The points you make are valid. Hughes needs to get the roster in around $81.5 million. The future is more important than the present. If a couple of vets have to be parked in Laval in order to get back some money for cap purposes, then so be it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Jul 29, 2022 13:30:35 GMT -5
no need to deal anybody else at the bottom of their trade value. Hoffman, Drouin, Dvorak, Armia, Anderson, even guys like Edmundson and Savard, they are all coming off the worst years of their careers. Might as well give them at least a couple of months to prove that last year's tire fire has been put out, and that they are indeed better than that. That’s a good point. Dvorak finished strong under St. Louis after a dismal first 3/4 of the season, with 17 points in his last 20 games. If healthy he could have a career year and boost his value significantly. |
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Jul 30, 2022 20:01:21 GMT -5
I know that a middle six type guy, such as Dvorak, can put together hot streaks here and there or even put together a career year so to speak. But he will turn 27 this season and has been rather consistent over the course of a career that is approaching 400 NHL games. His worst season in terms of offensive production was .423 points per game and his best was .589 PPG. He is what he is: very good faceoff guy, good shot and nose around the home plate area. But he is not a good skater by NHL standards; he is not a play driver type centre that 1Cs and most good 2Cs are; he is not a particularly strong defensive presence; and he is not really the type of guy who brings physicality or energy.
Dvorak is an above-average NHL centre on a contract that more or less corresponds to what he brings to the table. I would be in no particular hurry to trade him. And I have no doubt it would be easy for Hughes to find interested partners. However, the moment to move him depends both on what is being offered and where Dvorak stands on the Habs' roster.
For example, if Dvorak is the second best offensive pivot on the roster (as he is now), then I would insist any club coming calling has to overpay to obtain him. However if Dubois arrives, Dvorak would be a lesser piece on the roster and then I would be okay with just getting fair return for him.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jul 31, 2022 2:27:19 GMT -5
We also can't forget the dice that has been rolled in the form of Kirby Dach. He's a 21 year old 6' 3" 200 lb Right handed centre who has only ever had Jeremy Colliton and Derek King as coaches. While he has said all the right things about the Hawks, that team has been a tire fire for Dach's entire time there. The sexual abuse matter has been hanging over the team, their stars are aging and they've had to make a decision about what direction they are going in. We are still not certain which direction that is. Rocky Wirtz seems to be one of those sons who burns the house down after inheriting it. Jettisoning Dach may be yet one more error. I think it's fair to say that Dach was drafted higher than expected, but he was going to be picked by #8 at worst in a very strong draft year. He was picked ahead of Caufield....way ahead and we saw what a coaching change can do to a player in his case.
I have some high hopes for him. I really liked how he looked in the pre-tournament WJC games and the wrist injury he suffered not only wrecked Canada's chances as he was their best player, but also ruined a full year of development as he only played 18 games in the 20/21 season. There's no guarantee for Dvorak that he remains the #2 centre on the Habs. Folatre laid out his pluses and minuses quite well. He's a good finisher, but not a guy who develops plays for his teammates.
|
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Jul 31, 2022 22:08:11 GMT -5
For sure, I agree with the proposition that Dvorak will not be the 2C beyond the short-term (1-2 years). Dach could be the guy who passes him. Or management may trade for or draft someone superior to Dvorak.
Regarding Dach, he is an interesting player. Is he a centre or a winger? Is his offensive game developing slowly or is he simply not skilled enough to lock down a top six spot in the NHL? But there is certainly size and talent.
I do not think Dach has significant offensive upside. However, this is an ideal situation to find out. Management and coaches are open to letting young guys play and learn from their mistakes. The team will not be good so kids are not playing with the weight of the conference standings on their minds.
|
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Aug 1, 2022 10:54:28 GMT -5
I think Dvorak will be the default #2 center, and it's up to Dach to take the job from him, and in an ideal world Dvorak slides down to #3 as Dach proves his worth. So much of the medium term will depend on whether we get a top 3 pick (ie, a high end center) at the next draft. Which also means, if Dach develops but seems to slot in better as a LW, it's not the end of the world. Other than anyone else hoping to be a top-6 LW, since with Dach and Slafkovsky, there will be 2 guys managements has bet on heavily.
There is still a lot of chatter about Dvorak getting moved, but I don't think Poehling would be gone if there was a possibility that he'd be needed as a 4th C.
|
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Aug 1, 2022 12:47:10 GMT -5
Unless Dubois is arriving this summer, then I cannot see Dvorak getting traded at this stage. Having Drouin or Byron playing centre is not really something management should subject the coaching staff to.
If Dach turns out to a winger that would be a little disappointing. My assumption is you only trade 13 OA if you feel confident Dach is a centre. But if he turns out to be a wing, he could probably be utilized on either side. Some guys love to be on their off wing, but coaches are generally not overly receptive to kids breaking into the league with the added difficulty of board battles and clearing pucks on their backhand. Since he arrived Caufield has not really played LW at all (Anderson made the change instead). So it could be that in a couple of years Roy will play LW rather than his preferred side.
Who knows, maybe the 2024-25 season starts with Slafkovsky-Suzuki-Caufield and Roy-Dubois-Anderson and Dach is a valuable third line pivot. Time will say.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Aug 1, 2022 14:50:10 GMT -5
Sigh. Summer doldrums.
|
|
|
|
Post by Boston_Habs on Aug 1, 2022 16:33:49 GMT -5
I view the Dach trade as an interesting test case for this management team. Hughes is on record for saying he likes actual prospects with a body of work over a draft pick.
I don’t mind the thinking but count me in the skeptical camp when it comes to Dach. A 6-4 200 lb center with a pretty miserable offensive track record going back to his 3 years in junior where he wasn’t even a PPG player. His pro career has been interrupted by injuries but if he wasn’t 6-4 and 200 lbs he’d be a pretty ordinary player. Which is what concerns me.
Not saying he wasn’t worth trading for as the scouts and Marty may feel there’s a lot to work with but I’m not sure there’s a ton of precedent for guys with Dach’s history turning into much more than a 3rd liner.
|
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Aug 2, 2022 6:40:34 GMT -5
I'm not terribly concerned about the numbers Dach put up in junior. His final season was better than a PPG and overall he was close to that threshold - 129 points in 133 games.
I'm retrospect Byram, Seider or Zegras would have been better picks for the Hawks.
I'm hoping that getting into a stable situation with a different coaching approach and the opportunity to play in all situations will prove to be the impetus Dach needs to take a big step forward.
|
|
