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Post by seventeen on May 12, 2022 1:21:56 GMT -5
While I'm happy to have #1 pick, I must say I'm less than impressed with our history of picking #1: Lafleur, Plasse, Wickenheiser, Monahan, and Houle. Guy was the only elite player. Reggie was a solid player but not elite. The others were more like 2nd rounders or worse. Perhaps we're due to finally pick an elite player with #1 overall pick - it's been over 50 years since we did that. Monohan, Houle and Plasse were picked as part of the special Quebec draft that gave Montreal the top two French Canadian players. The only two #1 picks the Habs have had from what we consider the modern day entry draft (until this year) were Guy and Doug. Wicenheiser was the consensus #1 pick, by everyone and their dog. It was just bad luck we had the top pick that year. I bet the Avs aren't disappointed at dropping 3 spots and having to settle for Cale Makar in 2017. Still, I'd rather have the top pick. |
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Post by habsorbed on May 12, 2022 1:36:07 GMT -5
While I'm happy to have #1 pick, I must say I'm less than impressed with our history of picking #1: Lafleur, Plasse, Wickenheiser, Monahan, and Houle. Guy was the only elite player. Reggie was a solid player but not elite. The others were more like 2nd rounders or worse. Perhaps we're due to finally pick an elite player with #1 overall pick - it's been over 50 years since we did that. Monohan, Houle and Plasse were picked as part of the special Quebec draft that gave Montreal the top two French Canadian players. The only two #1 picks the Habs have had from what we consider the modern day entry draft (until this year) were Guy and Doug. Wicenheiser was the consensus #1 pick, by everyone and their dog. It was just bad luck we had the top pick that year. I bet the Avs aren't disappointed at dropping 3 spots and having to settle for Cale Makar in 2017. Still, I'd rather have the top pick. Not criticizing the drafting as much as commenting that #1 picks don't usually turn out well for the Habs. Wright, like Wick, would seem to be the consensus #1 pick. But our luck would seem to indicate we may not do all that well with this pick. Of course picking at #3 hasn't been very good for us either - nor has trading for a #3 - see Drouin. |
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Post by Skilly on May 12, 2022 10:25:07 GMT -5
While I'm happy to have #1 pick, I must say I'm less than impressed with our history of picking #1: Lafleur, Plasse, Wickenheiser, Monahan, and Houle. Guy was the only elite player. Reggie was a solid player but not elite. The others were more like 2nd rounders or worse. Perhaps we're due to finally pick an elite player with #1 overall pick - it's been over 50 years since we did that. Monohan, Houle and Plasse were picked as part of the special Quebec draft that gave Montreal the top two French Canadian players. The only two #1 picks the Habs have had from what we consider the modern day entry draft (until this year) were Guy and Doug. Wicenheiser was the consensus #1 pick, by everyone and their dog. It was just bad luck we had the top pick that year. I bet the Avs aren't disappointed at dropping 3 spots and having to settle for Cale Makar in 2017. Still, I'd rather have the top pick. One slight correction on this. The “French Canadian Rule” did not give Montreal the top 2 French Canadian players. It gave them the ability to select 2 French Canadian players that were not signed to C forms by any other team. This rule existed from 1936-1943. In that span Montreal protected 14 players. NONE played a minute in the NHL The rule was instituted again in 1963. From 1963-67 not one player selected played a minute in the NHL. In 1968, Montreal selected Plasse. The first to play in the NHL. In 1969, the NHL decreed players entering the NHL would need to be drafted and it was Montreal’s last kick at the French Canadien Rule. They selected Houle and Tardiff, and both played in the NHL. This rule gets misconstrued, even by Hab fans. Every team had the ability to sign players to C forms. They could sign anyone. It’s how Boston got Orr, Toronto got Keon, etc etc … it’s how Montreal got Elmer Lach, from SASK. It’s how other teams got players from Quebec as well (or could have gotten). Anyone good enough to play was signed to a c Form …. So the two players Montreal selected were predominantly scrubs |
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Post by CentreHice on May 12, 2022 10:30:04 GMT -5
Excellent breakdown of that "rule", Skilly.
Thanks.
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Post by seventeen on May 12, 2022 14:32:32 GMT -5
Here's the list of first overall picks. It is for the most part an impressive list but not a can't miss list. It would seem that out of every 10 years, 8 are for real and one is so so, and one is a bust (see Yakapov 2012, Dipietro 2000, and Daigle 1993). records.nhl.com/draft/no.-1-overall-picksWhat I find more interesting is to consider the guys I'd consider to be difference makers. I'm being picky at this point but the list isn't really that long. Going back to 1970 and Gilbert Perreault, the first year there was a 'real' draft. 1970 - Gilbert Perreault 1971 - Guy Lafleur 1973 - Dennis Potvin 1984 - Mario Lemieux 1991 - Eric Lindros 2004 - Alex Ovechkin 2005 - Sidney Crosby 2007 - Patrick Kane 2013 - Nathan MacKinnon 2015 - Connor McDavid 2016 - Auston Matthews Now, some may want to add others to that list (Sundin, Tavares) but ask yourself "If that guy got the puck and I'm a fan of his opponent, would I require a new pair of pants?" Potvin didn't lift you out of your seat like those others, but he was a force, so I included him. The part I find interesting is that in nearly 50 years, that's 11 guys from the top pick. Not very many, huh? |
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Post by Willie Dog on May 12, 2022 15:15:08 GMT -5
Monohan, Houle and Plasse were picked as part of the special Quebec draft that gave Montreal the top two French Canadian players. The only two #1 picks the Habs have had from what we consider the modern day entry draft (until this year) were Guy and Doug. Wicenheiser was the consensus #1 pick, by everyone and their dog. It was just bad luck we had the top pick that year. I bet the Avs aren't disappointed at dropping 3 spots and having to settle for Cale Makar in 2017. Still, I'd rather have the top pick. One slight correction on this. The “French Canadian Rule” did not give Montreal the top 2 French Canadian players. It gave them the ability to select 2 French Canadian players that were not signed to C forms by any other team. This rule existed from 1936-1943. In that span Montreal protected 14 players. NONE played a minute in the NHL The rule was instituted again in 1963. From 1963-67 not one player selected played a minute in the NHL. In 1968, Montreal selected Plasse. The first to play in the NHL. In 1969, the NHL decreed players entering the NHL would need to be drafted and it was Montreal’s last kick at the French Canadien Rule. They selected Houle and Tardiff, and both played in the NHL. This rule gets misconstrued, even by Hab fans. Every team had the ability to sign players to C forms. They could sign anyone. It’s how Boston got Orr, Toronto got Keon, etc etc … it’s how Montreal got Elmer Lach, from SASK. It’s how other teams got players from Quebec as well (or could have gotten). Anyone good enough to play was signed to a c Form …. So the two players Montreal selected were predominantly scrubs Great explanation... My neighbour who says he was a habs fan (now a Hens fan) spouted the crap about this and I shut him down... this article gave me the amo I needed thehockeywriters.com/habs-french-canadian-rule/ |
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Post by CentreHice on May 12, 2022 15:35:23 GMT -5
RE: seventeen's inclusion of Potvin. For sure.
Potvin hung 'em up after the 87-88 season, at the age of 34.
"I've done just about everything I can do," Denis announced. "I didn't want to play for one season too many."
He was only 8 pts. shy of a 1.00 PPG regular season career. 1060 games. 1052 pts.
D-men with over 1000 GP...only Coffey topped 1.00.
Potvin is 2nd in that regard.
Bourque was just 33 pts. shy of that mark over 1612 games. Incredible.
*Orr with a 1.39 pace over 657 games. Who knows what he'd have accomplished with healthy knees.
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Post by seventeen on May 12, 2022 15:46:22 GMT -5
The part I find interesting is that in nearly 50 years, that's 11 guys from the top pick. Not very many, huh? What would be even more interesting is looking at those same years and finding equivalent 'lift you out of your seat' players who weren't #1 picks. Would there be more than 11? Where were most picked, top 5, top 10? (Maybe in the doldrums coming up, I should check out that thought). Makar comes to mind from the recent past. Denis Savard? Jaromir Jagr? My thinking is that maybe, it's not necessary to get the very top pick. Would a top 5 be as good? |
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Post by folatre on May 12, 2022 15:51:34 GMT -5
I support the idea of sending Wright back to Kingston for 2022-23. However, when one looks at those recent first overall picks, one thing becomes readily apparent. Except for the extremely rare case of Owen Power (and it was Power who told the Sabres he was staying at Michigan, not the other way around), kids who are clearly not 100 percent ready to make a big impact in the league nevertheless make the jump and play in the NHL.
Lafreniere had trouble adapting to the reality of playing against guys who were as big and fast as him for the first time in his life.
Hischier and Hughes, both extremely light weight by NHL standards, struggled to find space and not get knocked off the puck.
But in each of these cases, it can be argued that none of the kids are ultimately any worse for the wear. Despite third line usage, Lafreniere seems to be getting the hang of it. New Jersey never put Hischier or Hughes in a bottom six role or harped on the many things they could not do well when they broke into the league, so basically the kids did not get demoralized and subsequently showed signs, particularly Hughes, of being difference makers.
In other words, while it is ideal to grow another season in the OHL, if Wright plays in the NHL it will not ruin him. The key, I believe, is to have a coach willing to let kids play through their mistakes, as well as a few vets to stabilize things (e.g. maintain good work habits and keep the room light).
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Post by Skilly on May 12, 2022 17:01:17 GMT -5
I support the idea of sending Wright back to Kingston for 2022-23. However, when one looks at those recent first overall picks, one thing becomes readily apparent. Except for the extremely rare case of Owen Power (and it was Power who told the Sabres he was staying at Michigan, not the other way around), kids who are clearly not 100 percent ready to make a big impact in the league nevertheless make the jump and play in the NHL. Lafreniere had trouble adapting to the reality of playing against guys who were as big and fast as him for the first time in his life. Hischier and Hughes, both extremely light weight by NHL standards, struggled to find space and not get knocked off the puck. But in each of these cases, it can be argued that none of the kids are ultimately any worse for the wear. Despite third line usage, Lafreniere seems to be getting the hang of it. New Jersey never put Hischier or Hughes in a bottom six role or harped on the many things they could not do well when they broke into the league, so basically the kids did not get demoralized and subsequently showed signs, particularly Hughes, of being difference makers. In other words, while it is ideal to grow another season in the OHL, if Wright plays in the NHL it will not ruin him. The key, I believe, is to have a coach willing to let kids play through their mistakes, as well as a few vets to stabilize things (e.g. maintain good work habits and keep the room light). ^^^ THIS!! If they show they can play, you play them. BUT you play them in the role you drafted them for and let them develop and learn from mistakes. I'm not sure it's much better for their development to go play in a league they clearly are to good for and develop bad habits because their mistakes go unnoticed. You also can't draft top line players and force them to play 4th line roles , with 4th line minutes , trying to force them to play a way they never played in their lives because it's supposedly "the right way". |
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Post by seventeen on May 12, 2022 17:09:45 GMT -5
I'd think that by next season, Wright will have outgrown the OHL. If that's the case, you can't send him to the AHL, he has to play in the bigs and then folatre's and Skilly's comments are bang on. That's fine. He may make mistakes, but we're not winning the Cup next year. It should be another development type year for Wright (or Cooley) as well as Barron and any other young Dman who cracks the line-up. Will it cost us points? Hopefully. But each will learn things and learn them more quickly than they might at other levels.
Now, you can't have too many kids in the line-up and Hughes knows that and has said so on many occasions. You have to surround them with decent vets with good character and good habits for the kids to emulate. Those lower talent guys are always available, because they are lower talent. But they'll be cheaper and on shorter terms.
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Post by Cranky on May 12, 2022 17:34:06 GMT -5
I have ALWAYS argued that you need heat to forge iron. Minimum is the AHL or straight into the NHL. Wright is NHL size so it's not like he's going to be falling down from passing drafts. If he has a brain and a heart, he will work at his craft and learn from his mistakes playing with his contemporaries, not his little brothers.
Please do no mention Kk. He's too arrogant for his small jockstrap and got exposed. If he dropped the arrogance, learned from his mistakes and four fingers was not his state of mind, he could of been worth his 3rd spot.
I'm hoping we are going to get a bit bigger and stronger Suzuki.
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Post by folatre on May 12, 2022 17:34:42 GMT -5
I would be a lot more concerned if Montreal had a dinosaur (Therrien or Julien) or a neo-dinosaur (Ducharme) behind the bench. With St. Louis, I foresee everything will be okay. Kids will play in appropriate roles. Kids will make mistakes and they will take their next shift. And the development curve in a tough league will be navigated.
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Post by Tankdriver on May 12, 2022 20:38:37 GMT -5
God, I shrudder to the thought of Julien, Ducharme, or Therrien with the handling of Wright. ''Sorry, you have to learn the right way to play Mr. Wright, and will start on the 4th line''
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Post by habsorbed on May 12, 2022 23:35:48 GMT -5
Here's the list of first overall picks. It is for the most part an impressive list but not a can't miss list. It would seem that out of every 10 years, 8 are for real and one is so so, and one is a bust (see Yakapov 2012, Dipietro 2000, and Daigle 1993). records.nhl.com/draft/no.-1-overall-picksWhat I find more interesting is to consider the guys I'd consider to be difference makers. I'm being picky at this point but the list isn't really that long. Going back to 1970 and Gilbert Perreault, the first year there was a 'real' draft. 1970 - Gilbert Perreault 1971 - Guy Lafleur 1973 - Dennis Potvin 1984 - Mario Lemieux 1991 - Eric Lindros 2004 - Alex Ovechkin 2005 - Sidney Crosby 2007 - Patrick Kane 2013 - Nathan MacKinnon 2015 - Connor McDavid 2016 - Auston Matthews Now, some may want to add others to that list (Sundin, Tavares) but ask yourself "If that guy got the puck and I'm a fan of his opponent, would I require a new pair of pants?" Potvin didn't lift you out of your seat like those others, but he was a force, so I included him. The part I find interesting is that in nearly 50 years, that's 11 guys from the top pick. Not very many, huh? I'm not looking for a Hall of Famer or a Hart Trophy or Art Ross winner. And Wright would not appear to be such. I'd be overjoyed with top 20 scorer, something we haven't had in decades. I'm not sure Suze can get there so hopefully Wright or Cooley will be the answer. |
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Post by habsorbed on May 12, 2022 23:41:52 GMT -5
I have ALWAYS argued that you need heat to forge iron. Minimum is the AHL or straight into the NHL. Wright is NHL size so it's not like he's going to be falling down from passing drafts. If he has a brain and a heart, he will work at his craft and learn from his mistakes playing with his contemporaries, not his little brothers. Please do no mention Kk. He's too arrogant for his small jockstrap and got exposed. If he dropped the arrogance, learned from his mistakes and four fingers was not his state of mind, he could of been worth his 3rd spot. I'm hoping we are going to get a bit bigger and stronger Suzuki. Speaking of KK and four, he is 6 games into the playoffs and has 0 points and is a -4? |
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Post by frozone on May 13, 2022 7:40:38 GMT -5
I have ALWAYS argued that you need heat to forge iron. Minimum is the AHL or straight into the NHL. Wright is NHL size so it's not like he's going to be falling down from passing drafts. If he has a brain and a heart, he will work at his craft and learn from his mistakes playing with his contemporaries, not his little brothers. Please do no mention Kk. He's too arrogant for his small jockstrap and got exposed. If he dropped the arrogance, learned from his mistakes and four fingers was not his state of mind, he could of been worth his 3rd spot. I'm hoping we are going to get a bit bigger and stronger Suzuki. Speaking of KK and four, he is 6 games into the playoffs and has 0 points and is a -4? He tends to score big goals in the playoffs, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's the guy who scores the series winning goal. But even Darren Langdon can score big goals in the playoffs. Imo, KK's reputation as a playoff performer is simply not deserved. 2019-20: 4G 0A in 10GP... with a 33.78% shooting percentage 2020-21: 5G 3A in 19GP... that's just 0.42 points per game 2021-22: 0G 0A in 6GP... sure, he's on the 4th line, but he's averaging 3:13 TOI on the powerplay over the series... That's over 19 minutes total! And all he can muster is 7 shots on goal in the series? The kid has tools, but man is he ever developing slowly. |
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Post by The Habitual Fan on May 13, 2022 11:35:06 GMT -5
Not to turn this into a KK thread but he earned his spot on the team in training camp in his first year but in hindsight he should have been left to develop in Finland for another 2-3 years after the draft. He should only now be making the NHL.
Should Montreal pick Wright 1st overall he should go back to junior next year. Montreal is not in a place for him to succeed right now and he has not played a lot of hockey in the past 2 years.
Let him captain Kingston, play in the world juniors and dominate the OHL. There is no hurry to have him in the lineup so letting him mature out of the spotlight is fine.
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Post by BadCompany on May 13, 2022 14:04:16 GMT -5
Not to turn this into a KK thread but he earned his spot on the team in training camp in his first year but in hindsight he should have been left to develop in Finland for another 2-3 years after the draft. He should only now be making the NHL. Should Montreal pick Wright 1st overall he should go back to junior next year. Montreal is not in a place for him to succeed right now and he has not played a lot of hockey in the past 2 years. Let him captain Kingston, play in the world juniors and dominate the OHL. There is no hurry to have him in the lineup so letting him mature out of the spotlight is fine. What he said. Where is this “Wright is too good for the OHL” thought coming from? * 8th in scoring, a full 30 points behind the league leader * 27th in goals (behind even Jan Mysak) * 6th in assists (still 17 points behind the leader) * 40th in power-play goals * 16th in power-play assists * 2 (TWO!) short-handed points * 8th in shots * Below 50% in faceoffs Forget his age, or his draft position, and focus on his development. McDavid, for comparison’s sake, played 166 regular season games, 34 playoff, and another 14 at the WJC. Over the course of THREE OHL seasons McDavid played 214 games. Wright, over the course of TWO OHL seasons, has played 121 regular season games, 10 playoff games, and just 2 games at the WJC. For a total of 133 games. McDavid: 214 games Wright: 133 games That’s well over a full season’s worth of games played as a teenager. And while I am the first person to argue that games are not everything (and indeed, probably not even the most important thing), you cannot ignore that Wright also lost out on practice time. And gym time. And off-season skating time. I don't know what it was like where he was, but here we couldn't even use the outdoor rinks. Individual coaching, one-on-on sessions with a trainer, even just hanging around the arena. SO much was lost because of the pandemic. So much. It's not going to happen, but I would 100% send him back. 100%. What’s the worst that can happen?? He puts up 120 points and dominates the league? Yeah, I’ll take that, please and thank you. If he develops unbreakable bad habits by scoring too much in the OHL as a 19 year old, then clearly he’s not the ”character” player Hughes claims to want, and we shouldn’t take him. But since I don’t see that as being the case, then I would absolutely send him back to junior. |
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Post by Cranky on May 13, 2022 15:18:15 GMT -5
It's not going to happen, but I would 100% send him back. 100%. What’s the worst that can happen?? He puts up 120 points and dominates the league? Yeah, I’ll take that, please and thank you. If he develops unbreakable bad habits by scoring too much in the OHL as a 19 year old, then clearly he’s not the ”character” player Hughes claims to want, and we shouldn’t take him. But since I don’t see that as being the case, then I would absolutely send him back to junior. By the same metric, bringing him into the big leagues like AHL is going to hurt his development? How? He wont get the coaching? Or the ice time? Or is his character so weak that if he doesn't score 50 points, he will melt? Dominating leagues he is clearly way past is not really learning. He's not going to face man who are his equal in strength and speed. Nor picking corner in junior goalies going to help him adjust to the much higher caliber NHL goalies. Nor standing in front of the net and getting swatted by 160 pound defenseman. Etc...etc...etc. Once again, we are having a 22 year old argument. |
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Post by Skilly on May 13, 2022 18:06:45 GMT -5
Not to turn this into a KK thread but he earned his spot on the team in training camp in his first year but in hindsight he should have been left to develop in Finland for another 2-3 years after the draft. He should only now be making the NHL. Should Montreal pick Wright 1st overall he should go back to junior next year. Montreal is not in a place for him to succeed right now and he has not played a lot of hockey in the past 2 years. Let him captain Kingston, play in the world juniors and dominate the OHL. There is no hurry to have him in the lineup so letting him mature out of the spotlight is fine. What he said. Where is this “Wright is too good for the OHL” thought coming from? * 8th in scoring, a full 30 points behind the league leader * 27th in goals (behind even Jan Mysak) * 6th in assists (still 17 points behind the leader) * 40th in power-play goals * 16th in power-play assists * 2 (TWO!) short-handed points * 8th in shots * Below 50% in faceoffs Forget his age, or his draft position, and focus on his development. McDavid, for comparison’s sake, played 166 regular season games, 34 playoff, and another 14 at the WJC. Over the course of THREE OHL seasons McDavid played 214 games. Wright, over the course of TWO OHL seasons, has played 121 regular season games, 10 playoff games, and just 2 games at the WJC. For a total of 133 games. McDavid: 214 games Wright: 133 games That’s well over a full season’s worth of games played as a teenager. And while I am the first person to argue that games are not everything (and indeed, probably not even the most important thing), you cannot ignore that Wright also lost out on practice time. And gym time. And off-season skating time. I don't know what it was like where he was, but here we couldn't even use the outdoor rinks. Individual coaching, one-on-on sessions with a trainer, even just hanging around the arena. SO much was lost because of the pandemic. So much. It's not going to happen, but I would 100% send him back. 100%. What’s the worst that can happen?? He puts up 120 points and dominates the league? Yeah, I’ll take that, please and thank you. If he develops unbreakable bad habits by scoring too much in the OHL as a 19 year old, then clearly he’s not the ”character” player Hughes claims to want, and we shouldn’t take him. But since I don’t see that as being the case, then I would absolutely send him back to junior. Because he had 48 points in his last 28 games For comparison the guy who won the OHL scoring title had 48 points in his last 28 games |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on May 13, 2022 18:20:20 GMT -5
What he said. Where is this “Wright is too good for the OHL” thought coming from? * 8th in scoring, a full 30 points behind the league leader * 27th in goals (behind even Jan Mysak) * 6th in assists (still 17 points behind the leader) * 40th in power-play goals * 16th in power-play assists * 2 (TWO!) short-handed points * 8th in shots * Below 50% in faceoffs Forget his age, or his draft position, and focus on his development. McDavid, for comparison’s sake, played 166 regular season games, 34 playoff, and another 14 at the WJC. Over the course of THREE OHL seasons McDavid played 214 games. Wright, over the course of TWO OHL seasons, has played 121 regular season games, 10 playoff games, and just 2 games at the WJC. For a total of 133 games. McDavid: 214 games Wright: 133 games That’s well over a full season’s worth of games played as a teenager. And while I am the first person to argue that games are not everything (and indeed, probably not even the most important thing), you cannot ignore that Wright also lost out on practice time. And gym time. And off-season skating time. I don't know what it was like where he was, but here we couldn't even use the outdoor rinks. Individual coaching, one-on-on sessions with a trainer, even just hanging around the arena. SO much was lost because of the pandemic. So much. It's not going to happen, but I would 100% send him back. 100%. What’s the worst that can happen?? He puts up 120 points and dominates the league? Yeah, I’ll take that, please and thank you. If he develops unbreakable bad habits by scoring too much in the OHL as a 19 year old, then clearly he’s not the ”character” player Hughes claims to want, and we shouldn’t take him. But since I don’t see that as being the case, then I would absolutely send him back to junior. 48 points in his last 28 games I give him a special exemption to play in the NHL at 18 years of age. He always moves up and relishes the challenges. Not likely to need personal time off to adjust to faster, stronger higher. 6'1 and growing. |
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Post by habsorbed on May 14, 2022 11:23:36 GMT -5
I'd see how he looked in the first 10 games but be sure to avoid the 'KK syndrome'. If it appears he's not ready for whatever reason, I send him to Europe so he can follow the Matthews approach.
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Post by seventeen on May 14, 2022 14:16:56 GMT -5
By the same metric, bringing him into the big leagues like AHL is going to hurt his development? How? He wont get the coaching? Or the ice time? Or is his character so weak that if he doesn't score 50 points, he will melt? Dominating leagues he is clearly way past is not really learning. He's not going to face man who are his equal in strength and speed. Nor picking corner in junior goalies going to help him adjust to the much higher caliber NHL goalies. Nor standing in front of the net and getting swatted by 160 pound defenseman. Etc...etc...etc. Once again, we are having a 22 year old argument. He can't go to Laval. The NHL/CHL agreement requires kids under 20 years of age (can't recall the exact date), to either play on the NHL team, or go back to juniour. I was listening to a podcast anchored by Patrik Bexell of Habs Eye on the Prize and the suggestion on that podcast was that he could be lent out to a European team, like the Swedish High League. It's an intriguing idea and I don't think the Habs would do that, but a year in Switzerland didn't hurt Matthews in his draft year. The Swiss league might even be better because it's more wide open and a youngster like Wright is more likely to get ice time. A negative factor is that with the Russian invasion, a lot of players are exiting the KHL and they'll be taking up spots in those other pro leagues. My suggestion is to wait and see what Wright (or Cooley or whoever) looks like at training camp. He may simply be too good to send back to juniour. It's not quite the same situation as KK's as he had little competition outside of Danault. Wright would be up against Suzuki, Dvorak, POehling and Evans. Different scenario. |
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Post by Willie Dog on May 14, 2022 14:32:38 GMT -5
By the same metric, bringing him into the big leagues like AHL is going to hurt his development? How? He wont get the coaching? Or the ice time? Or is his character so weak that if he doesn't score 50 points, he will melt? Dominating leagues he is clearly way past is not really learning. He's not going to face man who are his equal in strength and speed. Nor picking corner in junior goalies going to help him adjust to the much higher caliber NHL goalies. Nor standing in front of the net and getting swatted by 160 pound defenseman. Etc...etc...etc. Once again, we are having a 22 year old argument. He can't go to Laval. The NHL/CHL agreement requires kids under 20 years of age (can't recall the exact date), to either play on the NHL team, or go back to juniour. I was listening to a podcast anchored by Patrik Bexell of Habs Eye on the Prize and the suggestion on that podcast was that he could be lent out to a European team, like the Swedish High League. It's an intriguing idea and I don't think the Habs would do that, but a year in Switzerland didn't hurt Matthews in his draft year. The Swiss league might even be better because it's more wide open and a youngster like Wright is more likely to get ice time. A negative factor is that with the Russian invasion, a lot of players are exiting the KHL and they'll be taking up spots in those other pro leagues. My suggestion is to wait and see what Wright (or Cooley or whoever) looks like at training camp. He may simply be too good to send back to juniour. It's not quite the same situation as KK's as he had little competition outside of Danault. Wright would be up against Suzuki, Dvorak, POehling and Evans. Different scenario. Thats what I thought but I checked online and AHL website says... Now the nhl/chl agreement must supersede the AHL minimim age limit... does this mean a walk on at 18 can play in the AHL? What about European players? |
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Post by jkr on May 14, 2022 15:14:14 GMT -5
What he said. Where is this “Wright is too good for the OHL” thought coming from? * 8th in scoring, a full 30 points behind the league leader * 27th in goals (behind even Jan Mysak) * 6th in assists (still 17 points behind the leader) * 40th in power-play goals * 16th in power-play assists * 2 (TWO!) short-handed points * 8th in shots * Below 50% in faceoffs Forget his age, or his draft position, and focus on his development. McDavid, for comparison’s sake, played 166 regular season games, 34 playoff, and another 14 at the WJC. Over the course of THREE OHL seasons McDavid played 214 games. Wright, over the course of TWO OHL seasons, has played 121 regular season games, 10 playoff games, and just 2 games at the WJC. For a total of 133 games. McDavid: 214 games Wright: 133 games That’s well over a full season’s worth of games played as a teenager. And while I am the first person to argue that games are not everything (and indeed, probably not even the most important thing), you cannot ignore that Wright also lost out on practice time. And gym time. And off-season skating time. I don't know what it was like where he was, but here we couldn't even use the outdoor rinks. Individual coaching, one-on-on sessions with a trainer, even just hanging around the arena. SO much was lost because of the pandemic. So much. It's not going to happen, but I would 100% send him back. 100%. What’s the worst that can happen?? He puts up 120 points and dominates the league? Yeah, I’ll take that, please and thank you. If he develops unbreakable bad habits by scoring too much in the OHL as a 19 year old, then clearly he’s not the ”character” player Hughes claims to want, and we shouldn’t take him. But since I don’t see that as being the case, then I would absolutely send him back to junior. Because he had 48 points in his last 28 games For comparison the guy who won the OHL scoring title had 48 points in his last 28 games Interesting. So he went head to head with the scoring champ over an extended period. One thing I think is important is that he is still 17. The seven guys ahead of him in the scoring race are all older and 5 of them are 19 or 20. And yes , he is below 50% in faceoffs. He finished at 49.9. Here's the NHL.com article with the stat. www.nhl.com/web/news/shane-wright-says-he-deserves-to-be-no-1-pick-in-2022-nhl-draft/c-334015876 |
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Post by Cranky on May 14, 2022 15:27:16 GMT -5
Per AHL By-Laws, the age limit for eligibility to compete in the American Hockey League is 18 years or over, on or before September 15 of each season of competition.
Wright born...Jan 5, 2004
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Post by Skilly on May 14, 2022 16:29:28 GMT -5
By the same metric, bringing him into the big leagues like AHL is going to hurt his development? How? He wont get the coaching? Or the ice time? Or is his character so weak that if he doesn't score 50 points, he will melt? Dominating leagues he is clearly way past is not really learning. He's not going to face man who are his equal in strength and speed. Nor picking corner in junior goalies going to help him adjust to the much higher caliber NHL goalies. Nor standing in front of the net and getting swatted by 160 pound defenseman. Etc...etc...etc. Once again, we are having a 22 year old argument. He can't go to Laval. The NHL/CHL agreement requires kids under 20 years of age (can't recall the exact date), to either play on the NHL team, or go back to juniour. I was listening to a podcast anchored by Patrik Bexell of Habs Eye on the Prize and the suggestion on that podcast was that he could be lent out to a European team, like the Swedish High League. It's an intriguing idea and I don't think the Habs would do that, but a year in Switzerland didn't hurt Matthews in his draft year. The Swiss league might even be better because it's more wide open and a youngster like Wright is more likely to get ice time. A negative factor is that with the Russian invasion, a lot of players are exiting the KHL and they'll be taking up spots in those other pro leagues. My suggestion is to wait and see what Wright (or Cooley or whoever) looks like at training camp. He may simply be too good to send back to juniour. It's not quite the same situation as KK's as he had little competition outside of Danault. Wright would be up against Suzuki, Dvorak, POehling and Evans. Different scenario. KK's situation was a little more nuanced than that. And one I don't think Habs management will repeat. Round hole, square peg , you know ... During the preseason, he was paired with Lehkonen almost exclusively. They developed crazy mad chemistry (which in hindsight likely is why Montreal kept forcing him to the lower lines). He earned the right to stay with the big club. But when the season started, they did not play him with Lehkonen. He played the first 12 games with Byron, Drouin, and Armia as his wingers. Game 12, they finally gave him Lehkonen again. From Game 12 to 21, he then scored 8 points ... strangely enough it was Agostino that was with them on the other wing. But then they tried Byron, Shaw, Armia, ...eventually taking Lehkonen from him again. His 34 points when put in context, were downright amazing given how little he was used. People also forget the slump he went into at the end of that year ...2 points in 14 games. Why? Because that's when they took Lehkonen from him and gave him Drouin. So no Lehkonen for the first 12, no Lehkonen for the last 14 ...with Lehkonen 30 points in 50 games. Playing third line minutes. Then in year 2 and 3 , they wanted him to play third line, they wanted him to play defense ...they wanted him to do everything but the type of game he is suited for, and play with everyone but the players he gelled with ... there was a constant rotation of , what was it?, 20 different wingers .... Anyone who thinks Kotkaniemi for a fair shake to show what he is capable of in Montreal, just wasn't paying attention, or is willfully blind. If KK had MSL, instead of the two worse coaches in recent memory, things definitely would have played out differently. |
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Post by Willie Dog on May 14, 2022 22:01:44 GMT -5
He can't go to Laval. The NHL/CHL agreement requires kids under 20 years of age (can't recall the exact date), to either play on the NHL team, or go back to juniour. I was listening to a podcast anchored by Patrik Bexell of Habs Eye on the Prize and the suggestion on that podcast was that he could be lent out to a European team, like the Swedish High League. It's an intriguing idea and I don't think the Habs would do that, but a year in Switzerland didn't hurt Matthews in his draft year. The Swiss league might even be better because it's more wide open and a youngster like Wright is more likely to get ice time. A negative factor is that with the Russian invasion, a lot of players are exiting the KHL and they'll be taking up spots in those other pro leagues. My suggestion is to wait and see what Wright (or Cooley or whoever) looks like at training camp. He may simply be too good to send back to juniour. It's not quite the same situation as KK's as he had little competition outside of Danault. Wright would be up against Suzuki, Dvorak, POehling and Evans. Different scenario. KK's situation was a little more nuanced than that. And one I don't think Habs management will repeat. Round hole, square peg , you know ... During the preseason, he was paired with Lehkonen almost exclusively. They developed crazy mad chemistry (which in hindsight likely is why Montreal kept forcing him to the lower lines). He earned the right to stay with the big club. But when the season started, they did not play him with Lehkonen. He played the first 12 games with Byron, Drouin, and Armia as his wingers. Game 12, they finally gave him Lehkonen again. From Game 12 to 21, he then scored 8 points ... strangely enough it was Agostino that was with them on the other wing. But then they tried Byron, Shaw, Armia, ...eventually taking Lehkonen from him again. His 34 points when put in context, were downright amazing given how little he was used. People also forget the slump he went into at the end of that year ...2 points in 14 games. Why? Because that's when they took Lehkonen from him and gave him Drouin. So no Lehkonen for the first 12, no Lehkonen for the last 14 ...with Lehkonen 30 points in 50 games. Playing third line minutes. Then in year 2 and 3 , they wanted him to play third line, they wanted him to play defense ...they wanted him to do everything but the type of game he is suited for, and play with everyone but the players he gelled with ... there was a constant rotation of , what was it?, 20 different wingers .... Anyone who thinks Kotkaniemi for a fair shake to show what he is capable of in Montreal, just wasn't paying attention, or is willfully blind. If KK had MSL, instead of the two worse coaches in recent memory, things definitely would have played out differently. I was a KK fan when he was in montreal and I'm still a KK fan, just like I'm still a PK fan... PK got MThead'd and KK got Clod'd... |
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Post by seventeen on May 15, 2022 12:58:02 GMT -5
Per AHL By-Laws, the age limit for eligibility to compete in the American Hockey League is 18 years or over, on or before September 15 of each season of competition. Wright born...Jan 5, 2004 There is a separate NHL, Canadian Hockey League agreement. I haven't looked up the original, but here is a summary from the SBNation website. THE AGREEMENT
There is an agreement in place between the NHL and the CHL (Canadian Hockey League, the overarching organization beneath which stand the OHL, the WHL, and the QMJHL) which exists primarily to protect the CHL. The rule is as follows:
Players drafted and playing for CHL teams are ineligible to play in the professional minor leagues (AHL, ECHL) until they are 20 years old (by December 31st of that year) or have completed four years in major juniors. A perfect example of this is Jared Knight, this year. Knight won't turn 20 until January 16, 2012. He's already completed two years in juniors, playing his third in London this season. If things continue along their course, and Knight does not make the NHL Bruins for the 2011-2012 season, he'll have to play that year in London as well, and will be eligible for AHL play in 2012-2013. Barring CHL involvement, players have to be 18 by September 15 to be eligible for the AHL at all.One interesting point. Connor Bedard is an example of a kid who would qualify to play in the AHL after being drafted, because he started playing in the WHL at age 15 and when he's drafted, he will have completed 4 years in major juniour. Whoever is lucky enough to draft him, though, will not likely waste a year playing him in the AHL, though who knows, maybe he'll need to get stronger first. |
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