More Changes to Hockey Operations

[frozone]

Jun 27, 2022 23:04:15 GMT -5 seventeen said:

Jun 27, 2022 20:11:23 GMT -5 Skilly said:

The fact that Markov has ZERO coaching experience isn't a strike? How about the fact that he is an extreme introvert, and avoids cameras like the plague? Wayne Gretzky was a great player, an introvert, an sucked as a coach. Markov, imo, would be going back to the days of giving the job to old former defensemen, just cause. The only ex former defenseman deserving is Larry Robinson. That's it.

Well, Marty had zero coaching experience. Larry Robinson was quoted in a recent Stu Cowan article about Marty St. Louis, "Coaching is not a science, it's a feel. He had a feel for what it takes as a player and all he has to do is convert that feeling and put it into words of a teacher now and if he gets his point across then I think he'll have success".

I think Markov can do exactly that. Even as his legs were failing he was still more than adequate as a defender because he has a four dimension chess brain. We should ask his teammates just how introverted Markov was with them. How he acts toward the public and press is usually quite different for a player than when he's in that locker room and feeling safe.

I don't know Bowness personally so I can accept that halihab's opinion will be more accurate than mine. If he is indeed like that, then he would be a good choice. I'd still like to see Markov re-join the team in some capacity. A guy with that good a hockey brain should be an asset.

BTW, I didn't suggest Larry because as he himself puts it in a different Cowan article, "his body just can't take the travel anymore". He would not accept a coaching position but would be very open to some type of consultant role. If we can hire Vinny in that capacity, Larry should be a slam dunk.

I'm all for bringing Markov in, but in a lesser role. Like a Special Teams Consultant or something like that. I wouldn't want to have too many rookie coaches behind the bench.

[HFTO]

Larry would be my choice but Im not sure now he is up to the grind?....Regardless I agree he should be back in some capacity with the Habs and bookend his career.
Richardson was one of our better coaching hires for sure a big loss but also an opportunity for MSL to have a say in whom he brings in.
With the new era in place this let’s hope to get this thing going finally in the right direction.... the pick(s) moves this summer are massive.

Go Habs

[NWTHabsFan]

It is not really a hockey ops or business role, but nice to see the former Habs stars being brought in as ambassadors. Another olive branch extended to the alumni after strained relations between the two sides under the past regime.

[NWTHabsFan]

Jun 28, 2022 19:57:22 GMT -5 frozone said:

Jun 27, 2022 23:04:15 GMT -5 seventeen said:

Well, Marty had zero coaching experience. Larry Robinson was quoted in a recent Stu Cowan article about Marty St. Louis, "Coaching is not a science, it's a feel. He had a feel for what it takes as a player and all he has to do is convert that feeling and put it into words of a teacher now and if he gets his point across then I think he'll have success".

I think Markov can do exactly that. Even as his legs were failing he was still more than adequate as a defender because he has a four dimension chess brain. We should ask his teammates just how introverted Markov was with them. How he acts toward the public and press is usually quite different for a player than when he's in that locker room and feeling safe.

I don't know Bowness personally so I can accept that halihab's opinion will be more accurate than mine. If he is indeed like that, then he would be a good choice. I'd still like to see Markov re-join the team in some capacity. A guy with that good a hockey brain should be an asset.

BTW, I didn't suggest Larry because as he himself puts it in a different Cowan article, "his body just can't take the travel anymore". He would not accept a coaching position but would be very open to some type of consultant role. If we can hire Vinny in that capacity, Larry should be a slam dunk.

I'm all for bringing Markov in, but in a lesser role. Like a Special Teams Consultant or something like that. I wouldn't want to have too many rookie coaches behind the bench.

Markov just named assistant coach in Spartak. This is good for defensive prospect Dmitri Kostenko when he makes the move up from Khimik to Spartak.

[Willie Dog]

Jul 6, 2022 11:29:24 GMT -5 NWTHabsFan said:

It is not really a hockey ops or business role, but nice to see the former Habs stars being brought in as ambassadors. Another olive branch extended to the alumni after strained relations between the two sides under the past regime.

Good to see, happy for knuckles, would love for Mats and Saku to be European Ambassadors... if that exists... they travel and check on euro prospects, represent the team at events etc.

[seventeen]

Jul 6, 2022 11:29:24 GMT -5 NWTHabsFan said:

It is not really a hockey ops or business role, but nice to see the former Habs stars being brought in as ambassadors. Another olive branch extended to the alumni after strained relations between the two sides under the past regime.

How did these guys manage to keep their hair!? Jealous.

[seventeen]

Jul 6, 2022 11:30:39 GMT -5 NWTHabsFan said:

Markov just named assistant coach in Spartak. This is good for defensive prospect Dmitri Kostenko when he makes the move up from Khimik to Spartak.

Getting his coaching experience in before coming back to Montreal.

[NWTHabsFan]

Jul 6, 2022 13:22:05 GMT -5 seventeen said:

How did these guys manage to keep their hair!? Jealous.

Maybe some of Jose Theodore’s special brew. 😂

[Scotty D]

Jul 6, 2022 13:24:43 GMT -5 NWTHabsFan said:

Jul 6, 2022 13:22:05 GMT -5 seventeen said:

How did these guys manage to keep their hair!? Jealous.

Maybe some of Jose Theodore’s special brew. 😂

not to many fans outside of this group would catch this reference nicely done sir nicely done indeeed.

[Tankdriver]

Theodore has stayed out of the spotlight for awhile now. What's he been up to?

[PTH]

Jul 6, 2022 16:10:47 GMT -5 Tankdriver said:

Theodore has stayed out of the spotlight for awhile now. What's he been up to?

He's on the Habs broadcasts every Saturday night on their main TV contract...

[Tankdriver]

Ah so TVA..

[NWTHabsFan]

The Habs’ data analytics team is starting to look like a real team with two more very qualified hires to work with Chris Boucher.

[seventeen]

Shouldn't an analytics department be made up of people who look like a cross between a CPA and a 12 year old?

[jkr]

Just read the article about the new hires in analytics. Impressive resumes. Hockey sure is changing. A few years ago I would never have thought that someone with a background in AI would be joining a sports team.

[NWTHabsFan]

So Robidas will be the new assistant coach.

[frozone]

I think I like this hire. More coaching experience would have been nice, but we're clearly not in win-now mode. And let's face it... when you play in the NHL until age 38, you know how to mentor youngsters. And at this point, I think that's the most important thing to the Habs.

I like that he played the game in multiple ways over his career: he knew how to stay at home but he knew how to jump up in the play. What I dislike the most in a coach is when they're locked into one approach and won't budge. I'm hopeful that Robidas won't be that kind of coach.

[NWTHabsFan]

Jul 28, 2022 11:58:44 GMT -5 frozone said:

I think I like this hire. More coaching experience would have been nice, but we're clearly not in win-now mode. And let's face it... when you play in the NHL until age 38, you know how to mentor youngsters. And at this point, I think that's the most important thing to the Habs.

I like that he played the game in multiple ways over his career: he knew how to stay at home but he knew how to jump up in the play. What I dislike the most in a coach is when they're locked into one approach and won't budge. I'm hopeful that Robidas won't be that kind of coach.

I watched his presser and he focussed on player development and tailoring to each individual. He is there to also help develop the young defenders, so his time being in player development with the Leafs (five seasons) working with defenders. He is big on communication and working with the individual and their strengths. This philosophy is very aligned with MSL’s approach, and by default, the long term goal of HuGo to develop and build a sustainable competitive team over time.

He did talk a bit about his coaching philosophy where he does say that structure and systems play a role off the puck and with defence more so than forwards, where reads and freedom can be applied more often within a broader structure.

This is a very inexperienced coaching staff, so they have gone 100% out of the box and avoided the recycled coaching carousel that happens everywhere across this league. Development does seem to be the short term priority so patience will be needed.

[NWTHabsFan]

[seventeen]

This sure brings back memories. Back in 2001/02 we had the following defensemen

Patrice Brisebois, Craig Rivet, Andrei Markov, Sheldon Souray.....arguable your top 4. Supporting that group were

Stephane Quintal, Karl Dykhuis, Robida, Patrick Traverse and Frankie Bouillon. We ended up putting Robidas on waivers the next season just before the season started and kept those other pylons named above. Robida went on to play 845 more NHL games in his career for a total of 937.

The coach at the time was (drum roll), Michel Therrien. Clearly, a man who did not value Robidas' strengths, which were skating and transition play.

What is coaching? At an assistant's level, it's being able to identify strengths and weaknesses in a player and work with them to correct them. It's less any special acumen than a lot of discipline and stick-to-itiveness. Spending time with the player is key and you don't need a lot of coaching experience to handle that. It helps, of course, to be able to get your point across to the player, to encourage them to work with you to make those improvements. Good coaches are able to do that. Let's hope that's a strength of Robidas'. I'm optimistic, but not yet ready to pass judgment.

[NWTHabsFan]

Habs make a few moves in their video coaching unit, with 25 year veteran Mario Leblanc stepping down and the current Laval video coach getting promoted to replace him. Leblanc will stick around and help out the player development group with his video coaching expertise, so that group gets a bit more dedicated help.

[NWTHabsFan]

Boisvert (the international crossover scout and currently at the Hlinka event) and Audette (Quebec scout) extended for two years. I am not the least bit surprised about Boisvert due to his prominent role, but Audette…

Reports are that the Habs also added Billy Ryan (a prominent amateur scout with Florida for a number of years - and they draft well) as both an amateur scout for the USA and to help with player development, and ex-Boston College head coach Albie O’Connell as a US amateur scout (both reported separately by Basu in the Athletic if I recall, but nothing formally announced by the team yet).

[PTH]

What we don't know is the rest of the guys scouting record - we see the guys they actually pick, but on the inside, they can have the scouts lists from the past decade, and can compare to where guys were picked, and how the list holds up in hindsight.

And if Timmins wasn't willing to push for a trade to get a Q player when available, or just systematically underrated all Q prospects, then the value of the Q scout was not going to amount to much.

That being said, I hope this kind of evaluation will be done in the future - if a scout makes a great list but the only times we can pick from his territory are his mistakes, that's not on him.

[Skilly]

Aug 1, 2022 13:56:36 GMT -5 PTH said:

What we don't know is the rest of the guys scouting record - we see the guys they actually pick, but on the inside, they can have the scouts lists from the past decade, and can compare to where guys were picked, and how the list holds up in hindsight.

And if Timmins wasn't willing to push for a trade to get a Q player when available, or just systematically underrated all Q prospects, then the value of the Q scout was not going to amount to much.

That being said, I hope this kind of evaluation will be done in the future - if a scout makes a great list but the only times we can pick from his territory are his mistakes, that's not on him.

It is if the only reason you are picking from his territory is to get a guy from that territory. That's on the whole staff. But that scout better know those players inside and out if that's the prominent criteria for the selection.

[PTH]

Aug 1, 2022 22:30:07 GMT -5 Skilly said:

Aug 1, 2022 13:56:36 GMT -5 PTH said:

What we don't know is the rest of the guys scouting record - we see the guys they actually pick, but on the inside, they can have the scouts lists from the past decade, and can compare to where guys were picked, and how the list holds up in hindsight.

And if Timmins wasn't willing to push for a trade to get a Q player when available, or just systematically underrated all Q prospects, then the value of the Q scout was not going to amount to much.

That being said, I hope this kind of evaluation will be done in the future - if a scout makes a great list but the only times we can pick from his territory are his mistakes, that's not on him.

It is if the only reason you are picking from his territory is to get a guy from that territory. That's on the whole staff. But that scout better know those players inside and out if that's the prominent criteria for the selection.

The scouts have to know their guys, of course. But if Timmins systematically put a penalty on the Q when comparing leagues, and this led to taking few Q players other than longshots, that isn't on the regional scout.

[folatre]

I have no idea if Audette is doing his job well or not. But my impression was that Timmins tended to undervalue kids from the Q while overvaluing Americans and Swedes.

I understand that no one hits on the majority of the picks in their yearly draft portfolio. But there were instances where I could not understand why Montreal did not grab a local kid when the given slot would not have been a reach. For example, in 2020, Timmins wastes a fourth rounder on an American high school kid, Jack Smith, when local boys William Dufour and Villeneuve were sitting there. I hated that pick on draft day two summers ago and it looks even worse now because Dufour in particular looks like a strong bet to play in the NHL.

In 2021, Montreal finally used some mid-round picks on local kids, Trudeau and Roy, and those decisions are looking quite astute now. I do not want suggest that Timmins (and Audette) do not deserve credit for those picks because they do. But some feeling tells me that after the day one PR fiasco with the Mailloux pick, Molson may have mandated that day two create some stories for the local media to feel good about.

[PTH]

Aug 2, 2022 19:14:35 GMT -5 folatre said:

But some feeling tells me that after the day one PR fiasco with the Mailloux pick, Molson may have mandated that day two create some stories for the local media to feel good about.

It might even have been Bergevin, who wasn't completely oblivious that the blowback was strong.

[Willie Dog]

Not really hockey ops but Marc Dumont got fired by the team for what he calls creative differences... I wonder what that means...

[NWTHabsFan]

Ex-player Scott Pellerin joins the hockey development group. He previously was a director player development with the Leafs.