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Post by IamCanadiens on Oct 4, 2023 11:47:26 GMT -5
So what do you think the biggest final roster decisions are? Goaltending is on my mind. Allen's play hasn't exactly merited a spot as a backup. He needs to earn it and he hasn't as far as I'm concerned. I just don't think he brings value to the table any longer. I really don't think anyone would claim him an if someone did the contract is off the books. I have no issue giving Primeau the opportunity as he could provide long term value. He may not earn it but the risks in giving him the opportunity and or losing Allen are worth it moving forward. It ain't cutthroat if he can't earn it.
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Post by Tankdriver on Oct 4, 2023 11:55:58 GMT -5
I think the Habs run with 3 goalies to start the year. I think the forward position is the most intriguing. Ylonen can't be sent down without going on waivers, Heineman should stay, but unless a bunch of players are put on the IR someone is going down. I wish it was Armia but can't see it.
Forwards that are a lock (9):
Suzuki
Caufield
Gallagher
Anderson
Monahan
Newhook
Dach
Evans
Pearson
On the IR:
Dvorak
Bubble:
Armia
Pezetta
Ylonen
Forwards that can be sent down:
Slafkovsky
Harvey-Pinard
Heineman
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Post by Willie Dog on Oct 4, 2023 12:43:33 GMT -5
I think the Habs run with 3 goalies to start the year. I think the forward position is the most intriguing. Ylonen can't be sent down without going on waivers, Heineman should stay, but unless a bunch of players are put on the IR someone is going down. I wish it was Armia but can't see it. Forwards that are a lock (9): Suzuki Caufield Gallagher Anderson Monahan Newhook Dach Evans Pearson On the IR: Dvorak Bubble: Armia Pezetta Ylonen Forwards that can be sent down: Slafkovsky Harvey-Pinard Heineman Suzuki Caufield Gallagher Anderson Monahan Newhook Dach Evans Pearson Slafkovsky Harvey-Pinard Pezetta On the IR: Dvorak Bubble: Armia Ylonen Forwards that can be sent down: Heinema That gives us 12 forwards They have to keep Pez... he works hard, brings an edge and plays so much better than Armia... Joel has become Drouin... an offensive black hole... |
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Post by folatre on Oct 4, 2023 18:30:29 GMT -5
Pearson was taken as a cap dump in order to pocket that third round pick from Vancouver. To be honest, I do not see him as a roster lock.
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Post by frozone on Oct 4, 2023 21:37:13 GMT -5
Pearson was taken as a cap dump in order to pocket that third round pick from Vancouver. To be honest, I do not see him as a roster lock. You're probably right, but I look at the forward roster and, amongst the veteran wingers, we don't exactly have many obviously better options. And with this being a development-focused season, I think the front office will want to have a few "player coaches" on the team. Guys like Monahan, Savard, Gallagher, Anderson... these are vets that will help make the youngsters better and/or protect them. Even if Pearson's game has fallen off quite a bit, he's a character guy that fits in well with that group of vets that will help develop the kids. Armia even when he's producing, isn't really the type of vet that we need right now. I think I'd take a washed up Pearson over the 0.5 ppg version of Armia considering this season's objective. |
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Post by folatre on Oct 4, 2023 22:43:30 GMT -5
I hear you man, Armia is beyond frustrating to watch over the long marathon of an NHL season. Frankly, it would not bother me at all if Hughes waives him now or six weeks from now if the big Finn decides to play low energy hockey.
The thing is that I think Pearson needed to make a compelling argument why he should be in the lineup ahead of Harvey-Pinard, Slafkovsky, and Ylonen. And I did not see him doing anything in the preseason that helps his cause.
Leadership is certainly important, however assuming Gallagher and Monahan are healthy and grinding away in there, plus Anderson is also a glue vet, then I really don't see the angle whereby Pearson nails down a spot just because he is a character guy. Montreal is rebuilding and management needs to see young guys show what they can do, so blocking a kid with Pearson seems sort of counterintuitive. Could Pearson be a fourth line LW somewhere in the league? Maybe so. But the Habs need an younger, edgier guy like Pezzetta in the lineup more than than need an older less menacing guy like Pearson.
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Post by seventeen on Oct 5, 2023 11:46:05 GMT -5
This is going to be an ongoing problem as the youngsters get better and need opportunity. Roy needs a shot. Farrel needs a shot. Farrell is a kid who has always seemed to start a bit slowly in whatever league he has moved up to and then gets adjusted and then his really high hockey iq takes over and he becomes effective. I say that just because he seems to be the worst performing forward prospect we have, but that can change.
Anyway, back to the point that there is going to be fierce competition for spots on this team, especially if we draft well. We need to have this ongoing pipeline of talent to select from and to move along anyone who can get us future picks so we can continue this cycle.
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Post by Willie Dog on Oct 5, 2023 12:33:39 GMT -5
By the end of this year I expect Pearson, Amia, Dvorak to be gone and if Monahan stays injury free maybe sign him for another year...
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Post by Tankdriver on Oct 5, 2023 14:27:04 GMT -5
By the end of this year I expect Pearson, Amia, Dvorak to be gone and if Monahan stays injury free maybe sign him for another year... Agreed, but I am not sold on the top 9. It doesn't have anyone elite in it (top 20 in scoring and points). |
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Post by Cranky on Oct 5, 2023 15:00:31 GMT -5
Pearson is a decent player. He can pot another 20 like in the past and defensivly responsible.
Better then Armia...
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Post by folatre on Oct 5, 2023 15:20:43 GMT -5
Hand and wrist injuries can pile up and really degrade players' ability to feel the puck and fire it at the standards required to be effective in the NHL. Habs fans saw this up close with what happened to Gallagher and Drouin.
And sadly, by multiple accounts, Pearson's situation is worse because the poor guy has literally had 4+ surgeries to his hand and wrists over the last 18 months.
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Post by PTH on Oct 5, 2023 16:15:51 GMT -5
By the end of this year I expect Pearson, Amia, Dvorak to be gone and if Monahan stays injury free maybe sign him for another year... But given how tight cap space is, we have to assume we're getting contracts in return... |
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Post by Cranky on Oct 5, 2023 16:44:06 GMT -5
Hand and wrist injuries can pile up and really degrade players' ability to feel the puck and fire it at the standards required to be effective in the NHL. Habs fans saw this up close with what happened to Gallagher and Drouin. And sadly, by multiple accounts, Pearson's situation is worse because the poor guy has literally had 4+ surgeries to his hand and wrists over the last 18 months. Maybe. Probably. I thought that Markov would need a wheel chair after multiple knee surgeries, yet he had more decent years left in him. On the other hand, whenever I stressed my wrists trying to develop that window breaking wrist shot, I could feel the love for MONTHS afterwards. Those street balls can be vicious.  |
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Post by Willie Dog on Oct 5, 2023 20:09:46 GMT -5
By the end of this year I expect Pearson, Amia, Dvorak to be gone and if Monahan stays injury free maybe sign him for another year... But given how tight cap space is, we have to assume we're getting contracts in return... I would buyout armia at the least... on June 15th 2024, only 1.266 a year for 2 years www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/joel-armia |
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Post by folatre on Oct 5, 2023 21:50:06 GMT -5
For sure, if Armia's 2023-24 goes something like: 10 games loafing around, 10 games playing good hockey with his positive attributes, 10 games coasting, 10 games out with injury, 10 games producing little or nothing while getting back up to speed, 10 games alternating looking interested and disinterested, then clearly Hughes will not be able to trade Armia. And this kind of season would mean that buying him next summer makes a lot of sense.
Obviously, I hope that Armia is motivated to play hard and show the not insignificant positive tools he possesses. Because if this actually happens on a nightly basis, he would definitely help the boys on the ice and in the process become a positive asset in Hughes' portfolio.
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Post by PTH on Oct 5, 2023 22:20:21 GMT -5
Buyouts basically mean buying future cap room for current cap room. We'll need cap room more in the future than now. I would consider send Armia down to Laval, though. |
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Post by mikeg on Oct 6, 2023 6:58:02 GMT -5
In a perfect world we waive Armia and Pearson and someone claims them. That will not happen and if history has taught us anything with this team they are all talk when it comes to merit earning your spot.
If there were actual "bubble" players on the roster those players would be Armia, Pearson and sadly Gallagher. I don't see any world were any of those 3 are waived and sent down. There are no takers right now for any of them, so the team will do what they always do... hope they play well enough to trade before the deadline only to get injured 1 month into the season.
I don't want another tank season, I just don't think we are bad enough to be in the bottom 5, so why not roll out a young, hungry and dynamic team to give them some reps and experience and hope that cup run a few years ago rubs off on the young vets to drag this team to a bubble playoff team instead of a bubble seller at the deadline.
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Post by Tankdriver on Oct 6, 2023 11:51:40 GMT -5
Don't disagree with you, however this team needs a stud that are in the top 3 in this draft.
I don't think popcorn, Slafkovsky and Mesar is enough of a result for this past tank. You got your winger and your defenceman, now an elite center would be great.
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Post by seventeen on Oct 6, 2023 12:28:28 GMT -5
I agree on the elite part, but (there's always a but  , I think you can get away with an elite forward as long as your centres are well above average and you have a lot of quality depth. Looking at our team, and theh 3 projected core centres, they are Suze, Dach, Newhook and Beck. If Beck is good enough to centre the 3rd line, then Newhook goes to the wing. I think we are underrating both Suzuki and Dach. IMO, Suze will be the better scorer in the long run....anywhere from 90-100 points a year. Dach will be 80-90 but will be the better all around centre and the guy opposing teams can't plan against. He's too skilled, too fast and too strong. Newhook and Beck both have speed and skill. So, allowing that my assumptions are correct, an elite forward, like Caufield or Cole Eiserman, or Ivan Demidov or Macklin Celebrini will fit the bill, even if they aren't centres. Cup champs have included that formula. The Caps had Ovechkin, of course and excellent though perhaps not classed as elite centres, like Backman and Kuznetsov, supported by Eller. The Blues were an odd team which only had the elite dman, Pietrangelo, but an excellent centre in O'Reilly. Arpon Basu had an excellent article recently on the importance of depth on Cup champs and how good 3rd and 4th lines, outplaying their respective opponents was also a hallmark of winners. That makes sense. If your top two lines aren't dominated, then you can level the playing field by having an advantage in the bottom 6. That's still about 1/3 of the game. The one think that stands out about this year's Habs (not on D or in goal) is their forward depth. Their 4th line could include guys like Pearson, Armia and Evans. Those guys could play on a lot of teams' 3rd lines. We might not be able to match lines 1 and 2 (though not far off) of the best teams, but we could be better on the bottom 2. Anyway, while I would prefer to have an elite centre, you may be able to succeed without one. Also, who's to say Suzuki or Dach might not become one? The three prospects I mentioned above are all classed as forwards, so I assume they are not centres and you'd have to finish low and perhaps win one of the lottery picks to get a chance at them, but if our goaltending is as weak as it looks and our D still inexperienced, we might get within range. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Oct 6, 2023 15:19:48 GMT -5
To me it starts with Suzuki and Caufield. I need 75-80 points from Suzuki and 35-40 goals from Caufield... which would be the first 40-goal scorer since Vinny Damphousse in 1993-94!
For context, 75 points would have been good for about 40th in the NHL last year and in the company of guys like Alex Tuch, Dylan Larkin, Brock Nelson, and Jamie Benn. That's not a high bar, certainly given his contract. If Nick Suzuki can't be as good as those guys then we have a problem.
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Post by Cranky on Oct 6, 2023 17:10:31 GMT -5
Suzuki and CC will have all guns trained on them unless Dach can center an effective line.
The main reason I wanted to get the guy who should not be mentioned was the big upside was that he would take a LOT of pressure of those two. Not only what he brought to the table directly, but indirectly by taking away pressure.
It didn't happen.
So now we hope, pray and light votive candles that Dach will step into that role. A Slaf/Dach duo doesn't need to score 80 goals to make an outsized impact on the team.
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Post by habsorbed on Oct 8, 2023 1:29:40 GMT -5
Well we know Slafs will be with the team. The goal he scored against the Sens showed skill and awareness - me like. And it's fair to say he is ahead of Wright in his development. Wright was cut by Kraken today and sent down to AHL team in Coachella. Ouch!  Wonder how much of a gut punch it was to Wright to drop to 4. For someone who was touted like he was, it may be too much to overcome for a kid. Or maybe as Hugo suspected, he wasn't the real deal. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Oct 8, 2023 8:25:23 GMT -5
Suzuki and CC will have all guns trained on them unless Dach can center an effective line. The main reason I wanted to get the guy who should not be mentioned was the big upside was that he would take a LOT of pressure of those two. Not only what he brought to the table directly, but indirectly by taking away pressure. It didn't happen. So now we hope, pray and light votive candles that Dach will step into that role. A Slaf/Dach duo doesn't need to score 80 goals to make an outsized impact on the team. Dach is a smart enough player to help Slaf become what he needs to be... the issue is we have Suze and CC on one line and slaf and Dach on the other line, who will their linemates be... No one has grabbed the bull by the horns... I saw an article where the author suggests CC line up with Dach and Slaf line up with Suze... not sure how it would go over but Suze could help Slaf a lot with his great passing |
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Post by mikeg on Oct 8, 2023 10:13:57 GMT -5
I don't understand why anyone would want to break up Suzuki and Caufield, they are a legitimate duo, proven over multiple seasons now to produce when they are together. You need that. Leave them be.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 8, 2023 12:23:38 GMT -5
Final rosters by tomorrow at 5:00pm ET. The big clues will be today after 2:00pm when we see if any guys are on waivers as they need to be on today to clear by tomorrow.
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Post by HABsurd on Oct 8, 2023 13:19:12 GMT -5
The Canadiens have placed forward Joel Armia and defenseman Gustav Lindström on waivers.
Unexpected but great move by the management.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 8, 2023 13:42:51 GMT -5
The Canadiens have placed forward Joel Armia and defenseman Gustav Lindström on waivers. Unexpected but great move by the management. Yes, indeed. But by not putting Primeau on waivers, they will carry three goalies. Not ideal. Has Primeau really shown anything at the NHL level that warrants overprotecting him? Ylönen sticks as he would have had to clear waivers. Heineman, Barron and Norlinder can all be sent down as they are waiver exempt. I would think Norlinder has earned a spot in the opening night roster, but he may end up being a victim of his contract status to start. By my count, they still need to send at least two guys down to get to 23 healthy (Price, Wideman and Dvorak will all be injured list or eventually LTIR once the season starts). |
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Post by Bobs_HABit on Oct 8, 2023 14:21:23 GMT -5
The Canadiens have placed forward Joel Armia and defenseman Gustav Lindström on waivers. Unexpected but great move by the management. Nice surprise that Armia was waived and a good sign that management can make the right moves despite salary level |
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Post by Cranky on Oct 8, 2023 14:49:33 GMT -5
Armia on waivers...
Obviously any backroom discussions never got through to Armia.
Good riddence...
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Post by Skilly on Oct 8, 2023 15:04:28 GMT -5
Well we know Slafs will be with the team. The goal he scored against the Sens showed skill and awareness - me like. And it's fair to say he is ahead of Wright in his development. Wright was cut by Kraken today and sent down to AHL team in Coachella. Ouch! Wonder how much of a gut punch it was to Wright to drop to 4. For someone who was touted like he was, it may be too much to overcome for a kid. Or maybe as Hugo suspected, he wasn't the real deal. There were some posters on here suggesting Slaf should be sent to the AHL. But when Seattle actually does it, it is somehow proof Slaf is ahead of Wright? He very well may be ahead of Wright in development progression, but I'd like to point out Slaf has 10 points in 39 games, the worst production of any #1 overall forward, in their first season, EVER. Wright has 2 points in 8 games. They have the same ppg. And Wright is still only 8 points behind him ... ... let's not shower Slaf with laurels yet. He and Wright are both way behind where they should be on their development paths |
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, I think you can get away with an elite forward as long as your centres are well above average and you have a lot of quality depth. Looking at our team, and theh 3 projected core centres, they are Suze, Dach, Newhook and Beck. If Beck is good enough to centre the 3rd line, then Newhook goes to the wing. I think we are underrating both Suzuki and Dach. IMO, Suze will be the better scorer in the long run....anywhere from 90-100 points a year. Dach will be 80-90 but will be the better all around centre and the guy opposing teams can't plan against. He's too skilled, too fast and too strong. Newhook and Beck both have speed and skill. So, allowing that my assumptions are correct, an elite forward, like Caufield or Cole Eiserman, or Ivan Demidov or Macklin Celebrini will fit the bill, even if they aren't centres. Cup champs have included that formula.
Wonder how much of a gut punch it was to Wright to drop to 4. For someone who was touted like he was, it may be too much to overcome for a kid. Or maybe as Hugo suspected, he wasn't the real deal.
