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Post by TheHabsfan on Mar 4, 2004 10:37:12 GMT -5
Take this for what it's worth....
MolsonMan from Fanhome says that there is a bigger than the Kovalev deal brewing ....ok
Then another poster, MRHAB says he heard on "Fan990" (I think he meant TEAM990) that Boivin was on and confirmed that a bigger trade was brewing...Here is what he posted:
Can anyone confirm hearing this information this morning on TEAM990???
THF
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Post by larek on Mar 4, 2004 11:00:31 GMT -5
I would be very surprised to hear that Boivin went on the Radio and said another bigger deal could happen!I think Mr. HAB is pulling a few legs!! Mr HAB has pulled this before!!  |
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Post by TheHabsfan on Mar 4, 2004 11:47:52 GMT -5
I would be very surprised to hear that Boivin went on the Radio and said another bigger deal could happen!I think Mr. HAB is pulling a few legs!! Mr HAB has pulled this before!! Well...isn't that nice...and immature!!! Thanks for the feedback Larek! THF |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Mar 4, 2004 12:06:55 GMT -5
I would also concur that it seems really out of character for the President of le Club to be going to a radio station and "hinting" at a bigger trade brewing when the GM has been so notoriously tight lipped. So much so that noone really saw the Kovalev deal coming (it wasn't one of the 200 rumours on this or other boards).
Also, given the nature of trade negotiations, they are very fluid and often involve other competing teams, with offers and counter offers bouncing back and forth. It would be really premature to make any announcements until the deal is essentially finalized and the ink has dried, because you know those competing teams aren't going to let a "big" player get away without some fight.
All this to say if you don't yet have a large grain of salt, with which to take this rumour, start your search asap.
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Post by Goldthorpe on Mar 4, 2004 13:41:47 GMT -5
I don't trust MRHAB, but let's assume just for a second that MM information are right, and that Another Big One is coming.
My question is: what could be considered bigger than Kovalev?
Multiple answers:
a) A good, young player who could stay with us for a while. Ryan Smyth or Jeff O'neill for exemple. Remember all the rumors about a three way deal involving an Eastern and a Western team? But on the other hand, I don't think BG could pull out a trade for one of them without touching to our core or our top prospects.
b) Another rent-a-forward. But who's still left to grab? Lindros? I don't see GG doing another trade with the Rangers this year. Who else?
c) Now that we fetched Kovalev (offensive forward) and Dowd (defensive forward), we could always use a defenseman. But I don't see BG getting us a pricey one, with Komi and Hansey in the pipeline. Another rent-a-player then? But who could be bigger than Kovalev? Pronger? I just can't believe that.
So many questions.
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Post by Forum Ghost on Mar 4, 2004 15:21:57 GMT -5
Bigger than Kovalev? I can see BG making another deal similar to today's Dowd trade, but I really don't think that he would be able to top the Kovalev acquistion. The most I could see him doing is adding a depth d-man.
The Kovalev deal blew all of us out of the water. How would Gainey be able to top that? A player like Ryan Smyth would do it, but the Oilers are entrenched in a playoff battle and them getting Nedved yesterday means that they're not waving the white flag yet. IMO, Ryan Smyth is and should be an untouchable in Edmonton.
Jeff O'Neill? Now that the Habs have Kovalev, I'm not pressing too much for them to acquire O'Neill. He would obviously not come cheap and I wouldn't want the Habs to part with players like Higgins or Perezhogin for him. I'm content with the way the forwards are set up for now. Dagenais could be upgraded on, but considering that it would cost serious assets to do so, I'm content with the way the top six is right now.
Zednik-Koivu-Kovalev
Dags-Ribeiro-Ryder
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Mar 4, 2004 15:41:25 GMT -5
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Post by Disp on Mar 4, 2004 15:53:20 GMT -5
Take this for what its worth. I heard from a friend of the Smyth family that Ryans wife expects to be in montreal this year.
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Post by blaise on Mar 4, 2004 15:55:29 GMT -5
That echo resounds all the way down to the rookies and second-year players.  |
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Post by ethan on Mar 4, 2004 16:21:08 GMT -5
...when the GM has been so notoriously tight lipped. So much so that noone really saw the Kovalev deal coming (it wasn't one of the 200 rumours on this or other boards). . I brought up getting Kovalev a few days before it happened... and actually, I had us giving up quite a bit more than we did to get him and simon... If Gainey does have another one up his sleeve, I can't wait to see it! |
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Rookie
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Post by snap on Mar 5, 2004 0:58:21 GMT -5
Could just be a multiplayer deal...that could be "BIG". Something like O'Neil and Hill or Richardson and Cassles or Spacek or even Sanderson...
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Post by Habit on Mar 5, 2004 6:54:42 GMT -5
Well MolsonMan is officially gone: mb1.theinsiders.com/fmontrealcanadiensfrm1.showMessage?topicID=5164.topicBut he does say the trade is still gonna happpen. I believe it will be from a fringe team that still thinks it's got a shot at the playoffs. That is why the trade is taking so long. Maybe Dimetra from the Blues? How good would this look: Zednik / Saku / Kovolev Ryder / Ribs / Dimetra Very scarey lines for the playoffs. And I believe Dimerta is a UFA next season or a RFA? Anyone know? I know he is due for a HUGH raise next year. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Mar 5, 2004 8:32:08 GMT -5
I expect another deal as well. Dunno if it's gonna be bigger or not but we have too many NHL bodies around the team and I'm expecting some or all of Sunny, Perreault and Kilger to be gone.
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Post by blaise on Mar 5, 2004 12:45:41 GMT -5
I have no sources of inside information, even second- or third hand. Therefore any assumption I might make about further trades is based on deduction. I believe (along with most HabsRus subscribers) that the trade for Kovalev has been a significant upgrade for the Habs. However, prior to this trade the Habs were in the position of trying to catch up with the leaders in the East, and Kovalev alone is insufficient to bridge the gap. When you recalibrate the situation based on the recent trades by Toronto, Boston, and Ottawa, and even the Devils, you can see that the gap has widened considerably. If the Habs want to become serious contenders, they must pay the increased ante to be admitted to the table. Otherwise, they will be lining up to shake hands after losing the fifth game in some distant arena.
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Post by Lord Stanley on Mar 5, 2004 13:11:06 GMT -5
Maybe the Sabres... Zhitnik and Satan... Just an idea Lord Stanley |
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Post by blaise on Mar 5, 2004 13:34:58 GMT -5
Maybe the Sabres... Zhitnik and Satan... Just an idea Lord Stanley Those are plausible guesses, and Satan is known to be on the block. However, they would cost the Habs a lot in the form of prospects. |
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Post by Spotnick on Mar 7, 2004 0:54:56 GMT -5
Have you seen Satan tonight? doing the "telephone call" dance aftet his goal?
Just waiting to be traded... so send him to Washington or Pittsburgh ;D
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Post by HFTO on Mar 7, 2004 9:47:49 GMT -5
Imagine sending your best scorer away when after toady you maybe 4 pts out.
HFTO
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Post by jkr on Mar 7, 2004 9:49:20 GMT -5
Have you seen Satan tonight? doing the "telephone call" dance aftet his goal? Just waiting to be traded... so send him to Washington or Pittsburgh ;D They made a big deal about this just because it happened in Toronto. So what, the guy is having a little fun. Buffalo is only 6 behind the Islanders for eighth. Would they be stupid enough to trade him now? |
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Post by legaspesien on Mar 7, 2004 11:24:22 GMT -5
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Post by Marvin on Mar 7, 2004 12:36:35 GMT -5
Well it's debatable what Hossa, Hainsey or Higgins are going to amount to, but Ryder should not be dealt this year unless....
I started thinking about this "Bigger than Jagr" rumor -
assuming there is any truth to it, and teams that are out of the playoffs with players that we might be looking at. One guy came to mind: He's arguably the most talented offensive player in the league - BUT he's probably also the most one-dimensional player, AND he probably does not have very many friends among management and teammates because of his selfish ways: Ilya Kovalchuk. If I were Atlanta and could get a combination of a Ryder and/or future prospects, I'd consider the deal. More wishful thinking on my part? You bet!
Marvin
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Post by Kovalchuk on Mar 7, 2004 12:46:17 GMT -5
Marvin. Kovalchuk  No way. Unless you give Higgins, Perezhogin, Garon, Komisakek... and Ryder + 1st |
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Post by Marvin on Mar 7, 2004 14:09:44 GMT -5
Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I really don't think that Atlanta would ask more than a solid D man, Ryder and someone from the farm in return. Kovalchuk, with all his obvious talents, has been the cause of a lot of headaches to the Atlanta organization, and, I think he's expendable - if the right offer came along. I would hope that the Habs wouldn't make the offer - not because of Higgins and the rest of the farm players, but moreso because of Ryder. You never know.
As far as the alleged offer to Carolina is concerned, even though we'd really only be giving one player off our roster (Ryder), and gaining three players (Hill, O'Neil and Cole), somewhere along the way you've got to decide that you're either sticking to the original plan (the youth) or you're going for it this year. I don't like this at all.
Marvin
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Post by blaise on Mar 7, 2004 14:54:54 GMT -5
Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I really don't think that Atlanta would ask more than a solid D man, Ryder and someone from the farm in return. Kovalchuk, with all his obvious talents, has been the cause of a lot of headaches to the Atlanta organization, and, I think he's expendable - if the right offer came along. I would hope that the Habs wouldn't make the offer - not because of Higgins and the rest of the farm players, but moreso because of Ryder. You never know. As far as the alleged offer to Carolina is concerned, even though we'd really only be giving one player off our roster (Ryder), and gaining three players (Hill, O'Neil and Cole), somewhere along the way you've got to decide that you're either sticking to the original plan (the youth) or you're going for it this year. I don't like this at all. Marvin Dream on. The Thrashers' phone lines would be ringing off the hook from many a GM if Kovalchuk were on the block. |
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Post by Marvin on Mar 7, 2004 15:59:46 GMT -5
..and do you have some knowledge that Don Waddell's phone is NOT ringing off the hook?
Marvin
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Post by blaise on Mar 7, 2004 16:09:04 GMT -5
..and do you have some knowledge that Don Waddell's phone is NOT ringing off the hook? Marvin The fact that I don't know whether Don Waddell's phones are not ringing cannot be used to prove that Ilya Kovalchuk is or isn't on the block. But if he were, I am confident that Waddell would be able to receive far more from other GMs than the modest package you think the Habs might use to acquire one of the best new players in the past 5-10 years. Basically, I don't think you appreciate Kovalchuk's trade value, and I think you're speculating when you suggest the Thrashers might be interested in trading him. So in the final analysis you have nothing to go on but your dreams, as you said up front in your post. |
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Post by Marvin on Mar 7, 2004 17:51:26 GMT -5
Hey listen I'm just throwing out a suggestion of a trade that's "Bigger than Jagr." Doesn't mean that I think there's any possibility of it happening.
I'm not underestimating Kovalchuk's value at all. I said that he is probably the best pure-offensive player in the league. For all his world-class talent, he is the type of player that can drive his coaches and teammates crazy because of his non-committment to certain aspects of the game. We've seen it on occasion every year since he's been in the league, and it happened in Europe before he was drafted. Unless he matures in a hurry, in the long run this type of behaviour will not adhere him to any team in the league - this alone drops his value.
Can the Habs get him? Probably not because they don't have anyone who has that type of explosive talent to trade. On the other hand, not many other teams do either. But they definitely have the ability to put together a package of promising talent. Would Atlanta take a chance on a trading a sure thing (Kovalchuk) for a bunch of question marks? Probably not, but they'd be foolish to not at least listen to offers that could improve their team as a whole.
Marvin
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Post by jkr on Mar 7, 2004 20:13:19 GMT -5
This link to hockeytraderumors .com is interesting but completly without credibility. For instance:
The talk about Gonchar & Bondra & the players involved was widely speculated on TSN and other media - there is no inside info here.
Why would Washington turn down Balej ( a strong AHL'er) & first for Lang and then accept Flieschman who is still in junior.. It makes no sense.
I have a of trouble with the Carolina story.
O'Neill has been debated on this board and he may be just having a bad year & need a change of scene. But to me Cole is the same type of player as Ryder but Ryder is better player haviing a better year. And Hill is a UFA that would have to waive his no-trade.
Toronto has stated repeatedly that they are not trading their young players. I heard Quinn utter the words himself after the last Habs - leafs game. The caps could get more for Witt elsewhere.
The fact that the Habs or their fans like Witt and Grier is no revelation - it has been discussed on this board.
I think before we get into discussions about these rumors we should consider the where the information is coming from. Some guy that works in a bar is hardly an impeccable source.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Mar 7, 2004 21:48:50 GMT -5
Michael Ryder along with either Hossa, Higgins or Hainsey, and a 2005 2nd Draft Pick in exchange of Jeff O'Neill, Erik Cole and Sean Hill.
That would be a heck of a huge deal... I really like O'Neil who like Kovalev is on an off year but had pretty big numbers the previous 4 years. I like Cole for his aggressive style and Hill would bring some veteran presence on D. O'Neil and Cole are both young enough to be considered part of a rebuilding core as well.
Zednik - Koivu - Kovalev
Cole - Ribeiro - O'Neil
Begin - Dowd - Ward
Bulis - Juneau - Sundstrom
Souray - Hill
Markov - Brisebois
Rivet -Komi
Quintal
That lineup looks pretty darn good.
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Post by HFTO on Mar 7, 2004 22:21:20 GMT -5
As much as you hate to give up Ryder and the pick I have to agree that lineup is pretty decent.To me its a no brainer if it were true.Talk about transforming a team overnight.Now that would create a buzz the likes we haven't seen.
The thing that bothers me is all this talk of O'neill having a broken collar bone.The suspense is killing me because although all the talk is moot it really doesn't make much sense for Gainey to come up short now,something has to be brewing.
HFTO
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No way. Unless you give Higgins, Perezhogin, Garon, Komisakek... and Ryder + 1st