Manny Malhotra anyone?

[JFM]

I just heard that Dallas has just put Malhotra on waivers. Should Gainey look into picking him up? He should know him well during his time in Dallas. I know that his offensive upside is limited, but couldn't he be an upgrade on Dackell on the third line? I believe so..... if his salary isn't unreasonable. What do my fellow boardsters think? Oh and he is just 23, so he'd fit in the whole "youth movement".

[Deleted]

Bleh...I don't know. Perhaps he could put up huge numbers spending the year in the AHL or something.

[Roggy]

I can think of one guy here who's preached about picking up Malhotra for a couple of years now.

[PTH]

MattDHF said:

Bleh...I don't know. Perhaps he could put up huge numbers spending the year in the AHL or something.

If we pick him up, it means we can't send him down without his clearing waivers, and that's only after having played him a number of games.


Personnally, I think we should look at him as a possibility. I'm very close to giving up on Kilger outright, getting a similar but younger player would be logical to me.

[Andrew]

PTH said:

Personnally, I think we should look at him as a possibility. I'm very close to giving up on Kilger outright, getting a similar but younger player would be logical to me.

I've got to agree on the Kilger front. He brings very little to the team: he's slow, has no offensive ability, and doesn't use his size.

[zenseeker]

Andrew said:

I've got to agree on the Kilger front. He brings very little to the team: he's slow, has no offensive ability, and doesn't use his size.

Kilger actually has very good wheels for a big man, and has shown flashes of offensive potential. With a defined role on one of the top three lines he could be an excelent contributer. As far as Maholtra he's young, has size, and is cheap to acquire. He's definately worth the risk. Would you rather have him or Dackell or Audette or Sundstrom or the list goes on.

[TheCaper]

When Sundstrom was with SJ, he was a 4th line player with a bad contract and part of the worst PK in the league. SJ was willing to pay 25% of his salary just to get him out of town. Now he earns $1.95mil to split time between the 4th line and the press box. Haven’t we learned a lesson about collecting other teams garbage? We have better players than Malhortra in Hamilton just dying for a chance.

[Maritimer]

Better players in Hamilton than Malholtra?
The kid is 6'2 210lbs 23 years old and has 300 games NHL experience. He will never be a 20 goal scorer but please tell me who in Hamilton today is better.
Thinking about that statement I'm sure there are players in Hamilton who may be faster or have better hands but this kid is a big defensive stud. Plain and simple...He is our 3rd line centerof the future if we choose

[Ryan]

This team cannot continue to just pick-up salaries all over the place, we're not the Rangers...who by the way already gave up on this kid, that should tell you something.

Sure if Kilger, Sundstrom, and Dackell weren't around then give it a try, but the fact is they are here and more importantly so are their salaries.

A lot of these waiver pick-ups sound really nice, but in the NHL there are guaranteed contracts so it's just not wise to keep picking up players just to see if they'll turn out.

Look at Montreal's payroll, and do you see that many high priced players around? Nope, just a bunch of millionaires ($1-$2 mil contacts all over the place). That is why we have such a problem right now, we must have more millionaires than most teams in the league, and most of them are on a third or fourth line or 5th-6th defencemen.

[BadCompany]

I'd love to get Malhotra, as everyone knows. He's big, he's young, he's versatile, he plays physical, he's a more consistent Chad Kilger. And I like Chad Kilger.

Alas, the problem is the same one we had with Jason Wiemer. It would cost Malhotra's $1 million salary, plus the demotion/benching/buying out of whoever Malhotra replaces, with the usual suspects (give ME the keys!) being the main candidates. That would ultimately cost us two, maybe even close to three million for a 4th line player (Malhotra's $1 million, plus, say Dackell's $1. whatever million).

Having said that, if room could be found in the budget for him, I'd take him in a heartbeat. He's never going to score 30 goals, or even 20, in all likelihood, but neither is Kilger, or Begin, or Langdon, or... well, you get the point. You wouldn't be getting Malhotra to help solve your offensive problems, you'd be getting him to help solve your size and speed problems. The very same reasons people wanted to get Wiemer, only without the attitude. Part of that "team" building thing.

But the money...

[Rimmer]

BadCompany said:

I'd love to get Malhotra, as everyone knows. He's big, he's young, he's versatile, he plays physical, he's a more consistent Chad Kilger. And I like Chad Kilger.

Alas, the problem is the same one we had with Jason Wiemer. It would cost Malhotra's $1 million salary, plus the demotion/benching/buying out of whoever Malhotra replaces, with the usual suspects (give ME the keys!) being the main candidates. That would ultimately cost us two, maybe even close to three million for a 4th line player (Malhotra's $1 million, plus, say Dackell's $1. whatever million).

Having said that, if room could be found in the budget for him, I'd take him in a heartbeat. He's never going to score 30 goals, or even 20, in all likelihood, but neither is Kilger, or Begin, or Langdon, or... well, you get the point. You wouldn't be getting Malhotra to help solve your offensive problems, you'd be getting him to help solve your size and speed problems. The very same reasons people wanted to get Wiemer, only without the attitude. Part of that "team" building thing.

But the money...

BC, do you think Malhotra has the potential of being a solid checking line center? I've never seen him play but TSN says his potential is only that of a 4th liner. the reason I'm asking is because I don't see a valid candidate in our system aside from possibly Higgins (who might have a higher potential than that of a checking line fwd) and he, IMHO, would still need some seasoning. Bulis and Kilger are other possible candidates but Bulis seems to be more comfortable on the wing and Kilger's play appers to be too inconsistent for such an important role.

R.

[franko]

Andrew said:

I've got to agree on the Kilger front. He brings very little to the team: he's slow, has no offensive ability, and doesn't use his size.

Looking at Kilger's stats over the years, seems he's been fairly invisible. He needs to make his presence felt in front of the net and his bigness felt everywhere else he might be.

Malhotra hasn't done anything this year either. Gainey is the one that will know if he'd make a difference.

It always gets back to the same question, though: do we play out the year with what we've got, hope for the best, and wait until next year when we don't sign/do buy out those we want to lose and maybe chase a UFA or two and develop a team from there; do we pick up a fringe player or two this year and have the same results; or do we scrap the team as it sits by making a few huge trades, sign a few UFAs, and stay middle of the road for the next "X" number of years. Much as I'd like the big parade in Montreal this year, I'm willing to wait.

[mikeg]

you "heard" this?

or did you read it on hfboards where this was debunked as some rumor that a fanboy started?

mike

[Habfaith]

I would pass on Malhotra. Instead of browsing the bargain bins of the league, lets save up our pennies until we can add an offensive player. I would rather us spend $2.5 ?? on a guy like Parrish than a million on yet another 3rd/4th liner like Manny.

[Ryan]

mikeg said:

you "heard" this?

or did you read it on hfboards where this was debunked as some rumor that a fanboy started?

mike

www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=61193

It's true...and really not surprising.

[Maritimer]

If he is available when we have the option and he has a good attitude and something to contribute than I have no doubt Gainey will take him.

If he can't contribute his worth, has an attitude problem or whatever Gainey will have the intimate knowledge needed to pass on him.

Either way in this case Bob will have the right info to make the right choice.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

A $1M third/fourth line forward with a career 0.18 ppg (that's 15 points per 82 games), who managed to rate -7 in 84 games with the Dallas Stars? Sounds like a prototypical Habs forward allright.

[BadCompany]

Rimmer said:

BC, do you think Malhotra has the potential of being a solid checking line center? I've never seen him play but TSN says his potential is only that of a 4th liner. the reason I'm asking is because I don't see a valid candidate in our system aside from possibly Higgins (who might have a higher potential than that of a checking line fwd) and he, IMHO, would still need some seasoning. Bulis and Kilger are other possible candidates but Bulis seems to be more comfortable on the wing and Kilger's play appers to be too inconsistent for such an important role.

R.

I think Malhotra could be a good 3rd line center, especially if Gainey gets to talking to him every once in a while, as he apparently did with Ryder the other day. But then, I thought Kilger should have been groomed for that role too.

Like Kilger, Malhotra is a classic case of somebody being forced into a role they were never really meant to play. Kilger was drafted 4th overall, Malhotra 7th. For some reason, both were expected to produce offensive numbers in the NHL, Malhotra as an 18 year old. This, despite the fact, that they are clearly not offensive players. Malhotra has never, not once, scored more than 16 goals. Not in the AHL, not in juniors. Why anyone would expect Malhotra (or Kilger for that matter) to suddenly start scoring 20, 25, 30 goals in the NHL is beyond me. TSN’s bio says “he must start displaying offensive abilities.” He has never done it in lesser leagues, why would he do it in the best league in the world?

But that doesn’t mean he can’t be a useful player. We almost made the same mistake with Jason Ward, thinking that because he hadn’t scored a billion goals in the NHL by the time he turned 22 that he was a total bust. Well, truth is, we need guys like Jason Ward, just like we need guys like Kilger and Malhotra. We have Juneau, Dackell, and Sundstrom playing on our 3rd and 4th lines. They have no speed, no size, and no grit. They will never be mistaken for Selke players, no matter how “smart” they may be.

Malhotra has size, he has speed, he likes to hit, he’s decent on faceoffs, and he’s eminently coachable. He’s already defensively aware. Does that mean he is better than Juneau? Right now, no. Probably not by a long shot. Does that mean he is automatically going to be a great 3rd line center, just add a touch of Gainey, and a splash of red, white and blue? Again, no. He just might not have it. But he does have a good base, and he offers much more hope for the future than Juneau, Dackell or even Sundstrom do. And that’s what this team should be about.

There is misconception about me, that I am one of those “kids, kids, kids” type of people. I am not. I have no interest in picking up long shot cast-offs and sticking them into NHL roles, hoping they suddenly blossom. Like Dagenais. I’d rather go with a Juneau if it came down to one or the other. Nor do I have any interest in sticking in every prospect we have, because “surely they can do better.” But Malhotra is a legitimate NHL player. He has played 300 NHL games AND he’s still under 25 years old. It doesn’t mean he is going to be a star, but it also doesn’t mean our team is going to be super-bad, just because we have him on it. He won’t be replacing Saku Koivu, he’ll be replacing a mis-cast veteran, playing a role that doesn’t really suit them. Sundstrom has no purpose on the 4th line. He just doesn’t. Its supposed to be an energy, crash and bang line, and Sundstrom brings none of that. Doesn’t mean he is a bad player, just that the 4th line is not the best place for him. Yanic Perreault is a much better hockey player than Steve Begin, but Steve Begin is a much better 4th liner.

I do not know if Malhotra can be a good 3rd line center or winger for us. I think he can, but that has yet to be determined. But I am very certain that Malhotra can be a much better 4th line winger for us right now than Niklas Sundstrom is. And if he never progresses farther than the 4th line, then so what? We need those guys too…

[Rimmer]

BadCompany said:

I do not know if Malhotra can be a good 3rd line center or winger for us. I think he can, but that has yet to be determined. But I am very certain that Malhotra can be a much better 4th line winger for us right now than Niklas Sundstrom is. And if he never progresses farther than the 4th line, then so what? We need those guys too…

the reason I asked is because a 4th liner with a salary of 1 mil. is not so appealing to me. but a potentially good checking center/winger at the same salary is a good deal, IMHO. TSN also says this about Manny:

Is already an accomplished defensive forward. Has good size, speed, leadership qualities and face-off ability.

this is what really intrigues me. how many 23-year-olds in todays' NHL can you call 'an accomplished defensive forward'? and the rest is just an added bonus: good size, speed, leadership and face-offs. if it's all true, what's not to like? maybe he won't be qualified at the end of the year and we can sign him to a lesser deal...

R.

[JacquesInFL]

Nice post, BC. I wholeheartedly agree.

What has made the bridge to the future a source of frustration is precisely the lack of speed and strength (not necessarily size but clearly strength). It is a problem among the top six (Audette) and it is also a problem among the role players (Juneau, Dackell, Sundstrom). These are the guys that exacerbate the size issue at centre.

Julien's system is actually quite demanding of forwards. All must make commitment to lower coverage in d-zone and to support one's mates effectively in counterattack requires a lot more speed than than guys like Audette and Dackell have.

If the money can be found (did salary increases wipe out gain from strengthening of Canadian dollar?), then I think it is a good move to grab Malhotra and release Dackell or Sundstrom.

Gainey should also sell ownership on Audette buyout. 30-35 points for one-dimensional top 6 winger is unacceptable. We are bottom in power play and Donald is soaking up huge PP ice as well. When he lost his wrist shot, he stopped being a viable NHL player.

[cigarviper]

Well, they have one of the best defensive forwards ever to play the game in Dallas who must have given management the nod to waive him. What does that tell you? If Guy says he ain't fit, he ain't fit.

On the other side, we have one of the best defensive forwards to ever play the game at the helm who knows Manny very well. If Bob says he ain't fit, he ain't fit.

End of story.

[Rimmer]

cigarviper said:

Well, they have one of the best defensive forwards ever to play the game in Dallas who must have given management the nod to waive him. What does that tell you? If Guy says he ain't fit, he ain't fit.

It could be a numbers game. there's Modano, Arnott, Turgeon, Young, Guerin, Lehtinen, Morrow, Barnes, Kapanen who are clearly better players than him and then there's a group of players who battled for the last three spots in the lineup and the pressbox seats: Downey, Ott, DiMaio, Miettinen, Tjarnqvist, Malhotra etc. maybe the Stars' GM thinks that Manny, with his relatively big contract, can clear waivers easier than others and they're willing to gamble (remember Garon)? maybe he's on a 2-way contract?

R.

[cigarviper]

Exactly, the fact that they are willing to chance it should tell you something, and, if Gainey doesn't pick him up, that should tell you something as well. And that is, that he's nowhere near worth the salary he's making. Of course it's numbers. Better players win games and sell tickets. It's a balancing act to keep the return on investment positive for ownership. If Manny can't help now and doesn't have an upside for later then no one is going to pick up the salary and he eventually falls off the radar screen. That's all I'm saying. More like stating the obvious.

[Disp]

Rimmer said:

It could be a numbers game. there's Modano, Arnott, Turgeon, Young, Guerin, Lehtinen, Morrow, Barnes, Kapanen who are clearly better players than him and then there's a group of players who battled for the last three spots in the lineup and the pressbox seats: Downey, Ott, DiMaio, Miettinen, Tjarnqvist, Malhotra etc. maybe the Stars' GM thinks that Manny, with his relatively big contract, can clear waivers easier than others and they're willing to gamble (remember Garon)? maybe he's on a 2-way contract?

R.

Or it could be Malhotra's goalpost-like hockey sense.

[seventeen]

This is one I'll leave to Bob. I like the idea very much, but wasn't Bob the guy that got Manny from NY? Now who would know better than someone who liked him to start with and then got to watch him for a year? If we pass, it's probably for a good reason. But I hope not. Young guys with size who can skate like Malhotra are worth a 3rd/4th line role. It does boil down to that contract, don't it?

[cigarviper]

I don't know about that. It's only a million. If there was any hope that he could be a real asset to the team for 2-5 years or beyond, a million wouldn't deter Bob or George. This has to be more a talent vs money thing I think.

[JFM]

I have to agree with BC. Malhotra would not replace ANY of the top 6 forwards. He would replace 1 of the obvious group of older deadwood that everyone here wants gone. Insert Malhotra in any of the bottom 2 lines and immediately the Habs are better & younger IMO. The only negative I now see is that the price to pick him up is a little steep for what we would be picking up, combining his salary 1 mill + the cost of deadwood.

[franko]

With Audette possibly on the shelf does this open a door? (this may be premature, as I have no idea of Audette's injury).

[Ged]

Rimmer said:

It could be a numbers game. there's Modano, Arnott, Turgeon, Young, Guerin, Lehtinen, Morrow, Barnes, Kapanen who are clearly better players than him and then there's a group of players who battled for the last three spots in the lineup and the pressbox seats: Downey, Ott, DiMaio, Miettinen, Tjarnqvist, Malhotra etc. maybe the Stars' GM thinks that Manny, with his relatively big contract, can clear waivers easier than others and they're willing to gamble (remember Garon)? maybe he's on a 2-way contract?

R.

Off topic for a second. You inserted Turgeon as one of the Stars top 9. Unfortunately Turgeon is Audette in a green uniform with a much heftier salary. Turgeon, like Audette is severely done. If Gainey was going to buy out anyone's contract, it was Audette. And now, almost 20 games into the season, who gets top PP minutes almost every single game, sans production. Yup, you guessed it. It is so patently clear that Audette doesn't fit on this team, and it is downright painful to watch. Dallas would have probably gladly kept Malhotra if they weren't stuck in the same boat that the Habs are. A guy that has a huge contract, and no one willing to suck it up and admit the gig is up. End the pain already. Waive Turgeon, waive Audette, and wind up having to pay the guy real green to sit and watch the games? Obviously not going to happen. But it should. Admit to your multi-million dollar mistakes, and let's get on with building a real team.

[PTH]

franko said:

With Audette possibly on the shelf does this open a door? (this may be premature, as I have no idea of Audette's injury).

Hey, we're all allowed to hope, right ?


---

As to Malhotra..... to me the question is, where could we play him ? Unless we're sure to be able to play him, I wouldn't get him. But I'd readily put him on Juneau's LW, myself.