A thought on the Sens..

[habits]

I just sent this to Chris Stevenson at the Ottawa Sun.m just to see his thoughts.
Keep in mind that there is no rumor (yet, lol) of this happening, no source , nothing. Just something I was wondering last night as Lalime was playing so poorly...

If I am John Muckler, and still game fully employed by the Sens, and , assuming there is no work stoppage, do I place a call to one Patrick Roy to play goal , even if for one season? Did he not retire to be in Quebec near his son? Ottawa is not that far away.. Would he accept? Would he still be Property of the Avalanche if he came out of retirement, and would the Sens have to make a trade with Colorado? This could have blockbuster Potential written all over it. Thoughts?



Secondly, If Ottawa does retool, is there anyone on that roster we would want in Habland? If at all possible.

Cheers
habits

[Skilly]

Only Spezza.

Well Hossa but he isn't going anywhere. Spezza may fall into that category as well. But if you are Jason Spezza and for the second year in a row you watched from the rafters as the Toronto Maple Leafs eliminate your team, and you are the 4th leading scorer, Would you want to play for them anymore?

[habits]

Skilly said:

Only Spezza.

Well Hossa but he isn't going anywhere. Spezza may fall into that category as well. But if you are Jason Spezza and for the second year in a row you watched from the rafters as the Toronto Maple Leafs eliminate your team, and you are the 4th leading scorer, Would you want to play for them anymore?

Good Point.
Spezza would look good with Ribs And Ryder...

I m sure any trade we were to make with Ottawa would include Hossa, to reunite him with his brother in Ottawa.

but that's waaay down the road.

[Skilly]

habits said:

Good Point.
Spezza would look good with Ribs And Ryder...

I m sure any trade we were to make with Ottawa would include Hossa, to reunite him with his brother in Ottawa.

but that's waaay down the road.

I was thinking Hossa, Sundstrom and/or draft choice.

[Skilly]

Blaise said:

Think harder.

Well if I dared say what I really thought would land him then some on here would proably tar and feather me.

Hossa, Hainsey/ Pleks, and a first rounder.

But I think Ottawa might go Ryder for Spezza straight up, but it would solve nothing for the Habs. Hypothetically, if we were going to make a pitch, if Martin is not fired and Spezza requests a trade, we have to get him with a combination of draft choices, prospects and third/fourth liners or the Habs are still left with the same problem on the second line they have now.

However, if one of those prospect exhibit the ability to play on our first line/second line (your beloved Higgins maybe?) before we venture down that road then maybe Zednik/Hossa/draft choice could get us Spezza/draft choice ........ it is afterall a buyers market out there with the CBA looming and we wouldn't have to give up a star to land him IMO. But all this is contingent that Ottawa doesn't get a better offer from another team. But it would be a nice addition to our current line don't you think?

[Cranky]

What can we offer the Sens when they have everything? A heart?

The only thing that they need is a goalie and I don't think Gainey is going to trade Theo for Spezza.

However....

Hello MR. Garon!

[Skilly]

HabsAddict said:

What can we offer the Sens when they have everything? A heart?

The only thing that they need is a goalie and I don't think Gainey is going to trade Theo for Spezza.

However....

Hello MR. Garon!

Like I said .... There are trades that would make some what to tar and feather the person who would dare to suggest it.

Some on here love our prospects and want to watch them grow.

Others love our goalies, or at least one or the other goalie.

And some love our sweethearts.

But I wouldn't mind seeing Spezza in Montreal if we didn't have to lose the top 5 to get him.

[blaise]

Ryder wouldn't fit into their plans because he's a right wing. That's the strongest position for the Sens. They already have Alfredsson, Hossa, Havlat, and others. I agree with HA that the Sens might be interested in Garon, but it's more likely that they'd promote Avery instead.

[jkr]

I think the the Spezza rumors are like the Lecavalier rumors - mostly media generated with not much substance. The Sens are going to need him at centre because I can't see Bonk around Ottawa much longer. He was invisible in this series.

Lalime is an RFA and I can't see Ottawa making an offer. I think Muckler may go the Colorado route and go with what he has for now. Give the job to Prusek and Emery for a while & see what happens.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

One of the few changes the Sens will have to make is in goal. They outplayed Toronto for most of the series and Lalime really boned a few game-7 goals. I could read the label on one of those shots for crying out loud. If it weren't for Lalime's lackluster play, the Sens might very well be on their way to play the Flyers.

Having said that, the Sens probably won't make too many moves up front. Spezza has so much upside that I honestly doubt Ottawa would move him, let alone move him to a team in their division. Given a little more time I think Spezza might develop into a more controlled Joe Thornton. He's a character kid and the Sens would be good to hold on to him if only for that reason.

The one guy I would enquire about is Mike Fisher. Though not possessing as much scoring upside, Fisher is an excellent third-liner who can easily fill in on the second line, special teams, what have you. He's really that well-rounded. He's small, but he's fast and he never stops working. Our equivilent would be Steve Bégin and with him on the team, it might not be a good move bringing in Fisher. Unless he could be converted to a wing that is. That aside, Mike Fisher is the player I'd enquire about.

Spezza would be nice, but he represents too much of their future. Fisher is in the same category me thinks, so deals for each would be very unlikely.

But, they traded Gretzky I guess.

Cheers.

[Willie Dog]

I live in Ottawa and the natives are getting restless. A lot of people will not buy season tickets because they are fed up with wasting their time in the regular season only to get bumped in the playoffs by the Laffs. The radio call shows would have 2/3 of the team gone and Martin and some are even calling for Muckler's head because of the poor job Bondra and DeVries did.

Now there is no way the Sens will trade Spezza to a team in the East. If they traded him it would be to a western team with some sort of stipulation that he not be traded to the east. It would kill the Sens if Spezza ended up with the Laffs (he's loved by Cherry, Cole and most of the Toronto media)

[blaise]

I'd certainly go for Mike Fisher if he became available. He was one of the Sens who impressed me in the series with the Leafs. However, it's unlikely he would be.

[Willie Dog]

Disgruntled70sHab said:

The one guy I would enquire about is Mike Fisher. Though not possessing as much scoring upside, Fisher is an excellent third-liner who can easily fill in on the second line, special teams, what have you. He's really that well-rounded. He's small, but he's fast and he never stops working. Our equivilent would be Steve Bégin and with him on the team, it might not be a good move bringing in Fisher. Unless he could be converted to a wing that is. That aside, Mike Fisher is the player I'd enquire about.

My buddies who are Sens fans, would freak if the Sens traded Fisher or White. I can't believe they would move either of them.

[jkr]

Willie said:

My buddies who are Sens fans, would freak if the Sens traded Fisher or White. I can't believe they would move either of them.

I would be surprised too. In the Toronto Star today Pierre McGuire called him the next Mike Peca. If Bonk, Bondra & some others worked as hard as Fisher did the Sens may have overcome Lalime's deficiencies & won this series.

[habwest]

I would take any of Hossa, Alfredson, Phillips, Chara. Fairly young, very talented and, for the most part, played hard in the Leafs series. (Alfredson did have a poor game 7 and all weren't very good on game 5) I'd make room for these guys.

Spezza too- he should have played instead of Bonk but then that is one of the reasons that Martin will be fired- unwavering loyalty to players who weren't producing and never did when it counted.

But of course those are the players Ottawa will hang on to.

Maybe Fischer too but is Higgins this type of player?

Havlat I'm unsure about. His lack of production in the series may have as much to do with the mutual antipathy with Martin and he might produce in the clutch under different circumstances but who knows.

Redden's name is being suggested in Ottawa as one who might be available but I'm not so sure he would be- under the right coach he probably would deliver when it counted.

Bonk, Bondra and their ilk will be gone. Lalime too who played not too bad through games 1-6 but was awful in game 7. But obviously we don't really need/want any of those guys.

Martin and the coaching staff will be gone too. Writing may have been on the wall before game 7 when, after game 5, Muckler went into the dressing room and "challenged" the players and then it became public. Obvioulsy had lost confidence in the coach.

Maybe Muckler as well- after all he brought in Bondra, Simpson, De Vries who did absolutely nothing. (Gainey looks pretty good doesn't he) Also didn't make a move on Kolzig whom Melnyk reputedly wanted to get. (although I'm not sure Kolzig would have been the answer. Perhaps more significantly Muckler apparently did not offer a package of real talent from the current roster for somebody who would have made a difference like Luongo, 'tho I don't think that Florida woild have bitten on that)

In any case Melnyk apparently was in the dressing room immediately after the game yelling and screaming at the team and throwing furniture about. An overtly and publically demanding coach will w/o doubt be brought in. Someone who will call out players in front of the media.

And some RFAs just will be cut loose if they can't be traded, if not some of those still under contract.
(don't know who will be RFAs- somebody else can dig that out if they're interested)

[habits]

habits said:

I just sent this to Chris Stevenson at the Ottawa Sun.m just to see his thoughts.
Keep in mind that there is no rumor (yet, lol) of this happening, no source , nothing. Just something I was wondering last night as Lalime was playing so poorly...

If I am John Muckler, and still game fully employed by the Sens, and , assuming there is no work stoppage, do I place a call to one Patrick Roy to play goal , even if for one season? Did he not retire to be in Quebec near his son? Ottawa is not that far away.. Would he accept? Would he still be Property of the Avalanche if he came out of retirement, and would the Sens have to make a trade with Colorado? This could have blockbuster Potential written all over it. Thoughts?

Intersting Ideas, but no one has mentioned the possiblility of Roy. I know it's a long shot, but hey, who knows anymore. TEXT

[Habit]

Phone conversation:

Melnyk: "Hello Iron Mike, want a job?"

Mike Keenan: "Let me think on that a minute... YES!"

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Willie said:

My buddies who are Sens fans, would freak if the Sens traded Fisher or White. I can't believe they would move either of them.

And it wouldn't bother me a bit WD. I grew up in Ottawa's west end at that.

The other factor is that Mike Fisher is a very popular Senator.

Cheers.

[franko]

HabWest said:

I would take any of Hossa, Alfredson, Phillips, Chara. Spezza too

But of course those are the players Ottawa will hang on to.

Bonk, Bondra and their ilk will be gone. Lalime too who played not too bad through games 1-6 but was awful in game 7. But obviously we don't really need/want any of those guys.

And that about says it all. Any one we might be interested in will not be available (Fisher and White are going nowhere, though White pulled a Bonk disappearing act).

Again, yes, Lalime played poorly/did not step up/let in too many soft goals (if the Habs had lost game 7 would we be yelling for Theo's head right now for the softies?), but when you are shut out 3 times and score 1 goal in the fourth, it's hard to win.

Will be an interesting summer . . . er, time leading up to the CBA signing/strike/lockout/whatever.

[cigarviper]

HabWest said:

In any case Melnyk apparently was in the dressing room immediately after the game yelling and screaming at the team and throwing furniture about. An overtly and publically demanding coach will w/o doubt be brought in. Someone who will call out players in front of the media.

Makes us appreciate the class act that is George Gillette! Ya think maybe Melnyk just got embarrassed in front of all his stinking rich friends? I love the Sens but that pill-pusher Melnyk makes my skin crawl!

[habwest]

"Ya think maybe Melnyk just got embarrassed in front of all his stinking rich friends? I love the Sens but that pill-pusher Melnyk makes my skin crawl! "

There is no doubt that he was personally embarassed. After all he said the Sens would "kill" TO in game 7. He's one of those guys with a huge ego for whom losing is not an option.

On the other hand maybe he's just what the Sens need right now. He will make changes and he probably has a talent for picking the right people to do a particular job.

Arguably Muckler should be replaced, (and others of the management team?) and there is no doubt (IMO) that Martin and his staff should go. As well as a number of players like Bonk, who have been along for the ride, and Lalime, who can't deliver in the clutch.

IMO the Sens have had it too easy for too long. Melnyk gave the "old team" a chance to get it done. He supported them, he encouraged the fans, he spent money when Muckler said he wanted to get players, he wanted to try and go out and get a money goal tender. In short he couldn't have done much more.

That resulted in.... zero return. (at least for a talented team expected to go far in the playoffs)

So big changes should be made, a new and demanding coaching regime, if not management team, should be brought in and the heat should be put on the players who remain and who are brought in to deliver. 100 point seasons and playoff failures just shouldn't cut it any more.

In other words the current bunch should be held accountable and so should the new bunch.

If this isn't done, Ottawa fans will not spend their money (and remember, this isn't a city with a lot of big corporations buying boxes or expensive blocks of seats) and the city may well not have a team in the future. Cause Melnyk isn't in this to lose money, at least w/o winning a Cup or two.

[Polarice]

How about trading Martin for Quenneville!!

[Ranger Ranchod]

Skilly said:

But I think Ottawa might go Ryder for Spezza straight up

Don't make me laugh... they wouldn't even touch your first offer of 2 stagnant prospects (Hossa and Hainsey) and mid-first rounder.

[Ranger Ranchod]

If I'm the Sens GM (and what an upgrade I would be) I cut the cord on Bondra, Bonk, and Smolinski. Too much of what the Sens already have. Then, I give up whatever it takes to get Morrow, and sign Primeau. If Shanahan reaches UFA, get him. If they don't bite, go after Murray or Ricci or Madden, maybe even a Simon, Barnaby, or Konowalchuk, or heck, if you can swing it, get Holik. Then, I get a real fricken goalie.

[Maxkiwi]

IMO, the Sens need One thing, and One thing only: Someone between the pipes. If they wait too long and try to develop their own goalie, they will become the next Flyers ! All the ingredients, except one !

It's like going to a Hockey game, saturday night, Hot-dogs, Chips, Fans,.....and NO BEER ....

You might as well stay home

[AH]

The only thought I had when I saw Lalime give up those 2 stinkers in game 7 was how I predicted the Sens would go nowhere with their 2 journeymen goaltenders.

For those who want Garon as our starter, think Lalime.

[franko]

Ranger said:

If I'm the Sens GM (and what an upgrade I would be) I cut the cord on Bondra, Bonk, and Smolinski. . . . Then, I get a real fricken goalie.

Start with the goalie! Lalime: nice guy but not a #1. A couple of years ago SportsRadio guys in Ottawa were saying that the Habs had two #1 goalies (Hackett and Theo); Ottawa has two #2s and needed to upgrade. They didn't; hence, the predicament.

Smolinski says -- he was given a 4 year contract if I recall correctly. If Bonk isn't gone the fans here will be even angrier. Bondra may be given a second chance, depending on whether or not the coach stays (round peg square coach or round system square player . . . whatever -- same problem as Spezza, whcih leads me to believe that the Sens will hold on to Martin just in case there is a strike [why hire another coach when you're already paying one] but keep him on a short leash at the beginning of the season).

[Kareem]

The sens suffer from the same thing as the leafs: They have no structure. Thats why I was so extactic with the Gainey signing, look at our habs, they are one of the best structured team in the league. Solid defense with mobility, heart and grit, a pool of offensive players for the first two lines and defensive/gritty players for the bottom 2. Ottawa seems to have only stacked up a bunch of skilled europeans just like the leafs have done with over the hill gritty players and north americans. Ottawa doesnt have a clear 1st or 2nd line, they dont have a checking line, they dont even have a grind line. The players dont know their roles, its like communism.
Smolinski-Spezza-Havlat, is that a really a third line? It could challenge are first. How is White on the first? How is Varada on the 2nd? The only thing I'd be comfortable with on that team is the defense, its an amazing well balanced defense.

Forwards though, you gotta work harder. First off, Spezza and Havlat, they belong on the top two lines. Havlat can play LW, I'm pretty sure of it so put him with Alffie. Second, get rid of Bonk ASAP, throw in white or Smolinski if you have to. Get a gritty LW for the top 2 lines, a real checking center and a real top 2 line center to go with Spezza. Goaltending though, is a real issue, and so is leadership. Alffredson is the only real leader, there are no Koivu's, no Gilmours, no Sourays, no Sundins, no Iginlas, no Thomas's, no Roberts. Its emotionless, just like the weak Coach and the crappy GM. Bondra was a useless waste and Vermette on the 4th is borderline moronic.

Its not like they dont have good assets to trade:

Bonk, Smolinski, White, Schaefer, Vermette, Lalime. That can get you a lot with a mix of picks.

Think something along these lines:

Morrow-Allison-Alfredson
Havlat-Spezza-Hossa
Schaefer-Fisher-DiMaio
Varada-Avery-Neil

Keep the defense

Get a goalie or mold Emery into the no.1 job. Just get rid of Lalime.

[cigarviper]

Looks like Martin is history as of today:


Sympatico.ca sports

Senators to make announcement


Senators to make announcement
The Ottawa Senators have called a news conference this afternoon with the future of head coach Jacques Martin handing in the balance.

Speculation has surrounded the fate of Martin since losing Game 7 of their opening round playoff series against the Toronto Maple Leafs on Tuesday. Martin and goaltender Patrick Lalime were singled out in the loss, the fourth time in five year the team has been eliminated by the Maple Leafs.

"I can't imagine any scenario whereby head coach Jacques Martin will be back," NHL on TSN hockey analyst Bob Mackenzie said following Tuesday night's loss.

"Martin is a great NHL coach and a terrific guy but, when you lose as many times to the same team over and over again in a year when you're supposed to get to the Stanley Cup final and maybe win it, that's a likely change."

Martin has been head coach of the Senators for the past eight years and following Paul Maurice's dismissal this season in Carolina, he became the longest serving head coach in the NHL. He signed a two-year contract extension with the Senators in January, which includes an option for a third year if there's a lockout this fall.

Martin compiled a record of 341 wins, 249 losses and 96 ties in the regular season. However, he could not translate that regular season success into the post-season, finishing with a 31-38 playoff won-loss record. The former NHL coach of the year guided the Senators to three division titles, the President's trophy and reached the conference finals in the Stanley Cup playoffs last season.

[franko]

Wow . . . what do I know? I must have thought that Bryden was still the owner and that the Sens would keep tight tabs ont he $. Obviously Melnyk is hungry as an owner to win the Cup. Nice to see a couple of Canadian team owners that care (I discount the Leafs -- their ownership is happy to keep printing[/w] making money, whether or not they get the Grail.

Another big move is Phil Myre gone as goaltender coach. But really . . . did he have enouogh to work with?

All in all, this just means that Sens fans will buy tickets -- they had lost hope with Martin.

Muckler also said that he'd make the Bondra trade again in a minute.