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Post by CentreHice on Jun 10, 2004 22:00:49 GMT -5
Listening to Leafs Lunch for a bit today (Thursday, June 10) and Bill Watters said that Peter Pocklington managed to "procure" Wayne Gretzky while Gretz was a member of the Soo Greyhounds. As a result, Wayne wasn't available for the draft. Apparently, that's against regulations...every team is supposed to have a crack at Junior players. Watters said, "I don't know how Pocklington did it...but he did. That's why, for me, those Oiler championships in the 80's are tainted. They cheated." He went on to say that Gretzky is the only OHA player ever who should have been drafted #1 but was never available. I didn't know Pocklington was involved in Gretz's life that far back. Aha....a little searching on the web...and voila...an excellent article which backs up Watters' comments. www.oilersheritage.com/history/WHA_players_waynegretzky.htmlSo, Pocklington and Skalbania were old partners....no doubt they broke the rules on this one. I don't think it's happened since. |
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Post by blny on Jun 11, 2004 10:07:24 GMT -5
Wayne turned pro before any NHL team could draft him. He was 17 and playing in the WHA. First with Indiannapolis and then Edmonton. The article stipulates that the NHL was waiting until 1979 for Gretz to draft eligible, but I don't think the NHL had the 18 year old draft rule back then. Any NHL team could have had a crack at him you'd think. Peter Puck and Skalbania just beat them to it. Heck, his first season in the NHL was 1979-80. Why didn't an NHL just draft him in the 1979 draft anyways. That would have made things interesting. ;D
Skalbania and Pocklington did nothing illegal, or immoral, in that deal. Nelson broke no rule in place within the WHA. He signed a player to a WHA contract. Period. Watters is spewing sour grapes almost thirty years after the fact. It must be a slow news day.
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Post by CentreHice on Jun 11, 2004 17:52:06 GMT -5
but I don't think the NHL had the 18 year old draft rule back then. Any NHL team could have had a crack at him you'd think. That would be a key question to answer. If the NHL draft rule was in effect, then they broke it under the guise that he was signed to a WHA contract. Who else was signed under these circumstances...i.e. signed before the draft? Mark Messier? Watters seems to think that Gretzky was the only one who falls under this category. So the rule must have been in place. Skalbania and Pocklington did nothing illegal, or immoral, in that deal. Nelson broke no rule in place within the WHA. He signed a player to a WHA contract. Period. Watters is spewing sour grapes almost thirty years after the fact. It must be a slow news day. Watters was Alan Eagleson's right-hand man in the 70's....so he more than most would have the dope on what went on. If he was merely asleep at the switch (like all the other scouts/agents at the time) then it is jealousy. If it was "cheating"....then he and the others have a legitimate beef. After all, why hasn't it been done since? On the other hand....perhaps Eagleson was angry that someone else figured out how to break the rules before he did. ;D |
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Post by franko on Jun 13, 2004 16:31:04 GMT -5
If the NHL draft rule was in effect, then they broke it under the guise that he was signed to a WHA contract. On the other hand....perhaps Eagleson was angry that someone else figured out how to break the rules before he did. ;D Must disagree (and I have to say that I have always been a Gretzky-hater and therefore an Oilers hater, though I'd cheer for them before the Leafs). Guise or not, he was signed to a legally-binding WHA contract -- a league that did not have the draft rule in place. And Gretzky could always have said "no" and waited the year. So no NHL rule was broken because the WHA was not under their rules. Know this, though: If Buttman had been NHL President back then, Edmonton, Hartford, Indianapolis, Ottawa, Quebec City, Winnipeg, and a host of other cities would have had NHL franchises, small market or not -- as long as expansion fees are paid any city or town is big enough (next on the list: the Wawa Highwaymen). |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 13, 2004 19:12:02 GMT -5
-- as long as expansion fees are paid any city or town is big enough (next on the list: the Wawa Highwaymen). Is that close to Walla Walla, Washington? |
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Post by franko on Jun 13, 2004 19:37:06 GMT -5
Is that close to Walla Walla, Washington? It isn't close to anywhere . . . just like the CBA discussions. |
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Post by Skilly on Jun 22, 2004 20:24:27 GMT -5
After all, why hasn't it been done since? It hasn't been done since because there is not another professional league. It is called the NHL AMATEUR draft. If you are signed to a professional contract you are ineligible for the draft. If I am Bobby Hull, I am talking with all the owners of the new WHA (a profesional league) to see if someone is willing to take a chance and call Sidney Crosby's name at the draft this year. That team can offer Crosby 5 Million this year (an not count towards the cap). Crosby would then be in Gretzky's shoes. Do I take the easy money, or do I wait for 1-2-3 years until the NHL gets their house in order and be subject to the rookie/NHL salary cap? Currently, Crosby would only be able to make about 1-3 million a year in the NHL. So if I am Crosby, I sign the WHA contract for 2 years. Play for 2 years and take my 10 million. Then sign as a free-agent (imagine a free-agent at age 20!!) with an NHL team and avoid the rookie caps. |
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Post by PTH on Jun 22, 2004 22:55:39 GMT -5
It hasn't been done since because there is not another professional league. It is called the NHL AMATEUR draft. If you are signed to a professional contract you are ineligible for the draft. I don't think so. Plenty of NHLers were drafted out of a pro league - the IHL. Samsonov is probably the best of the bunch but there were several others. |
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Post by Skilly on Jun 29, 2004 20:26:35 GMT -5
I don't think so. Plenty of NHLers were drafted out of a pro league - the IHL. Samsonov is probably the best of the bunch but there were several others. You could also argue that the European leagues are professional leagues. But that would be the arguement Crosby could use. They did it for Gretzky, why not him? And even if a team drafts him in 2005, say Washington, what is to stop him from playing in the WHA for 5 million per year and then wait until the 2 years is up and either enter the draft again or he says I am sticking with the WHA to scare teams off so he goes undrafted and then sign as an undrafted free-agent? He has options. But sitting out a year and losing a year's NHL salary can be avoided by going the WHA route. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jun 29, 2004 20:31:08 GMT -5
You could also argue that the European leagues are professional leagues. They are. |
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Post by Skilly on Jun 29, 2004 20:36:51 GMT -5
I know. Just saying that I am aware of the fact that "pro's" have been drafted in the past. I realized the error soon after I posted, and forgot to modify. I still think Crosby can through a loop into everything by going the WHA route. As the CBA stands now he has nothing to lose and 10-15 Million to gain. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 30, 2004 12:07:52 GMT -5
I know. Just saying that I am aware of the fact that "pro's" have been drafted in the past. I realized the error soon after I posted, and forgot to modify. I still think Crosby can through a loop into everything by going the WHA route. As the CBA stands now he has nothing to lose and 10-15 Million to gain. If my son had a chance to pocket a cool $15M vs playing in Rimouski for pocket change and hoping someday, if he doesn't get hurt to make the NHL max for rookies whatever that may be under the new CBA whenever that may be................? What would I tell him to do? After Bobby's league folds he could be a true free agent and earn a whole lot more than the minimum. For the WHA, Crosby would bring a lot of viewers to the TV. More than Savage and Traverse would for sure! |
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Post by Skilly on Jun 30, 2004 20:02:05 GMT -5
If my son had a chance to pocket a cool $15M vs playing in Rimouski for pocket change and hoping someday, if he doesn't get hurt to make the NHL max for rookies whatever that may be under the new CBA whenever that may be................? What would I tell him to do? After Bobby's league folds he could be a true free agent and earn a whole lot more than the minimum. For the WHA, Crosby would bring a lot of viewers to the TV. More than Savage and Traverse would for sure! That's why I think Bobby Hull is going to suggest to the owners that someone take him or Ovechkin. It would make things very interesting to say the least. |
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Post by jkr on Jul 4, 2004 18:33:01 GMT -5
I don't think so. Plenty of NHLers were drafted out of a pro league - the IHL. Samsonov is probably the best of the bunch but there were several others. Bonk is another. He played in the IHL for Las Vegas as a teenager in 1993-94. |
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