Do we want Satan on our side?

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Satan's days numbered
Sabres plan to let veteran winger go due to big contract

By TIM GRAHAM
News Sports Reporter
7/26/2005

"I'm just trying to wait and see what happens."

Miroslav Satan almost certainly has played his last game for the Buffalo Sabres.

Speculation of the streaky sniper's departure has swirled for much of his past few seasons. Now it appears he just costs too much to keep around.

The Buffalo News has learned Satan's tenure in Buffalo - sometimes prolific, sometimes tumultuous - will end either with a discharge or a trade, maybe within a few days.

The Sabres' leading scorer in six of his seven full seasons here is a restricted free agent who would make nearly $4 million this season, about 14 percent of the team's target payroll, and become an unrestricted free agent next summer.

The Sabres will either decline to tender a qualifying offer or retain his rights for the purposes of trading them away for as little as a draft pick.

- www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050726/2018810.asp

*

When Miroslav Satan puts his credit card out to pay bills, he says "They ask me, 'Is this really your name?'" His standard response: "Only in America."

[Habit]

Might be a good choice for 2nd line winger, but for 1st line? I'll pass.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

habit said:

Might be a good choice for 2nd line winger, but for 1st line? I'll pass.

Why? He averages 30 goals per 82 games over his career, compared to say, Kovalev's 28. He's a career +5 per 82 games, compared to Kovalev's -1.

Zednik-Koivu-Satan

Not shabby at all.

[Ryan]

In the last 7 seasons he has not played less than 79 games.

He turns 31 is October, so should still have another 3-4 productive years.

In the last 5 seasons has scored 33, 29, 37, 26, and 29 goals (last year).

As long as you're willing to live with the ups and downs through the season, he will get close to 30+ goals, especially with playmakers like Koivu and Ribs to set him up. Sounds an awful lot like a slightly more talented Zednik.

IMO he's fine as a plan B, but I would prefer Kovalev, Palffy, or Kariya.

[blny]

mrbozo said:

habit said:

Might be a good choice for 2nd line winger, but for 1st line? I'll pass.

Why? He averages 30 goals per 82 games over his career, compared to say, Kovalev's 28. He's a career +5 per 82 games, compared to Kovalev's -1.

Zednik-Koivu-Satan

Not shabby at all.

On the surface one can look at that and say that Satan has the edge. Dig a little deeper and you realize that for a good part of that time he had Hasek behind him. Kovalev didn't. I think that evens things out +/- wise.

Satan is very good, and I like Ryan's analysis of a more talented Zednik. It's pretty accurate. I still prefer AK. He's bigger, and more apt to handle the physical play in the playoffs. He's still my #1. Palffy 2, Satan 3. Kariya doesn't really even interest me.

[Deleted]

I don't even think he'd be necessary as a Plan B. Don't we have some guy by the name of Perezhogin in the ranks?

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Palffy, way too fragile. Kariya, too much of a will-o'-the-wisp for me. Kovalev, everyone knows my feeling about him. Demitra may just choose to stay home due to the recent death of his infant son.

Barring further developments, this is the guy I would like to see give the other teams hell from the first line:



Kovalev's and Satan's playoff records are virtually identical. And let us not forget that Satan has laboured in the armpit of Lake Ontario that is Buffalo for all but the first two seasons of his career—no star-studded supporting casts for him to cruise around with.

[blny]

mattdhf said:

I don't even think he'd be necessary as a Plan B. Don't we have some guy by the name of Perezhogin in the ranks?

I think by plan b they meant after AK, and not as a second line player. I think a seasoned player is required to round out the first line. Perezhogin will hopefully dispense with Dags.

[HFTO]

Bring on the number of the beast,should all else fail.
The Habs need a pure goal scorer added to the lineup and Satan has been consistent enough on a mediocre team.
Ultimately I'd like to see the Habs get a Bigger body ala Glen Murrary.We'll have to wait and see.
HFTO

[Forum Ghost]

mrbozo said:

Zednik-Koivu-Satan

Not shabby at all.

I like Satan, but I'm not too comfortable with the $4M price tag.

Kovalev would still be my first choice, but if Gainey went for Satan I wouldn't mind one bit. We do have to remember that Miro didn't have a lot of skill surrounding him in Buffalo, yet still managed to put up good numbers.

[Boston_Habs]

Agree. I want Kovalev and I think he's probably a $5MM player under the new landscape. I think Satan is a decent backup (and possibly more reliable) but I don't think he's as talented as Kovalev and not as big either. Satan at $4MM sounds about right.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

849 games, 292-388-680, -9, 12.1 shooting%, 0.80 PPG, $6.6M in 2003-04.

704 games, 259-260-519, +40, 14.6 shooting%, 0.74 PPG, $4.75M (minus rollback = $3.61M).

[Boston_Habs]

mrbozo said:

849 games, 292-388-680, -9, 12.1 shooting%, 0.80 PPG, $6.6M in 2003-04.

704 games, 259-260-519, +40, 14.6 shooting%, 0.74 PPG, $4.75M (minus rollback = $3.61M).

I think that's about right. When you factor in the 24% rollback to Kovalev's last contract at $6.6MM per season, he would be making $4.95MM under the new system. I don't think anyone else is going to value Kovalev at more, on a relative basis, than he was valued under the old system which makes $5MM the top end for a guy like Kovalev. Maybe that's too much, but if Gainey wants to take him off the table before he goes UFA then I think it will take that much to get him. But with all the teams with money to spend it's still possible that somebody will be reckless and overpay for top scorers.

[Forum Ghost]

bostonhabs said:

When you factor in the 24% rollback to Kovalev's last contract at $6.6MM per season, he would be making $4.95MM under the new system.

I think that Gainey's offer of $4.5M, last summer, was fair.

Gainey said that he's still interested in Alex, but I wonder if the figure being offered is more, less or the same as the one that was offered last summer.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

forumghost2 said:

bostonhabs said:

When you factor in the 24% rollback to Kovalev's last contract at $6.6MM per season, he would be making $4.95MM under the new system.

I think that Gainey's offer of $4.5M, last summer, was fair.

Gainey said that he's still interested in Alex, but I wonder if the figure being offered is more, less or the same as the one that was offered last summer.

The market is depressed compared to what it was then—that would be the effect of the salary cap ("cost certainty"). Players are being bought out to make payroll space—I doubt anyone, Habs included, will spend up to the $39M ceiling.

Let's say Gainey leaves $6M wiggle room. That means a team cap of $33M (which includes salaries, benefits, and bonuses). $33M / 23 (full roster) = $1.43M average per player. I am willing to concede that Kovalev is twice as good as average, which makes him roughly a $3M player.

Don't forget Gainey also has to take into account the raises from this season to next, to stay under the cap.

Interesting times indeed.

[MC Habber]

mrbozo said:

Don't forget Gainey also has to take into account the raises from this season to next, to stay under the cap.

I'm not sure what you mean by raises, but I read recently that if a player is set to earn different amounts in different years of their contract, then, each year, the average of what they will earn counts against the team's cap.

[NWTHabsFan]

I would not mind Satan one bit, as it would give room for Perezhogin to make his mark on the second line. The big drawback is the lack of size that our top six would have...but will it make a difference in an obstruction free NHL? Or at least obstruction free until the end of October? Or obstruction free until Pat Quinn and company whine and whine about special teams being too much of a deciding factor because of all these extra penalties being called?

My list now includes the likes of Satan, Demitra, Palffy and Kovalev, in no particular order. Kariya and Selanne just don't cut it for my new look Habs.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

nwthabsfan said:

My list now includes the likes of Satan, Demitra, Palffy and Kovalev, in no particular order. Kariya and Selanne just don't cut it for my new look Habs.

Like the list, and totally agree re Kariya and Selanne.

However...

Palffy will stay in LA.
Kovalev will hang with Lemieux and Malkin.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

machabby said:

mrbozo said:

Don't forget Gainey also has to take into account the raises from this season to next, to stay under the cap.

I'm not sure what you mean by raises, but I read recently that if a player is set to earn different amounts in different years of their contract, then, each year, the average of what they will earn counts against the team's cap.

I meant raises to next year's crop of RFAs—Hainsey, Higgins, Perezhogin, Ward, and any of this year's RFAs who sign 1 year contracts. Also, allowing the club flexibility in pursuing any top-shelf free agents that might interest them.

Yes, for cap purposes contract payments are averaged out over the lengths of their terms and applied toward the cap. The salient point here is that while the salary calculated toward the cap remains constant, the cap itself is variable.

The cap will vary from year-to-year, being tied as it is to league revenues. So, sure, this year the cap is $39M, but next year it may be $36M (or $42M).

Obviously, a smart GM will calculate a safe buffer between his team's cap and the league-wide cap ceiling when determining his yearly budget (and mileage on that will vary for team to team).

I don't know how much Gainey has budgeted to spend for this season, but I am certain that it won't be as much as $39M.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Hmmm...

Satan leads Devils to Cup

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

blny said:

mrbozo said:

Why? He averages 30 goals per 82 games over his career, compared to say, Kovalev's 28. He's a career +5 per 82 games, compared to Kovalev's -1.

Zednik-Koivu-Satan

Not shabby at all.

On the surface one can look at that and say that Satan has the edge. Dig a little deeper and you realize that for a good part of that time he had Hasek behind him. Kovalev didn't. I think that evens things out +/- wise.

Perhaps, but bearing in mind that neither have or will challenge Gainey's prowess, IMO Satan is a more consistently defensively aware player.

Satan is very good, and I like Ryan's analysis of a more talented Zednik. It's pretty accurate. I still prefer AK. He's bigger, and more apt to handle the physical play in the playoffs. He's still my #1. Palffy 2, Satan 3. Kariya doesn't really even interest me.

Risky Business - Palffy and Stumpel are both fine players, but are still risky signings if the Kings intend to give both 3 year deals as it rumoured.

Palffy is already 33 and would be 36 by the time this contract is finished. Zigo is known for his poor off-season training habits and could very well age quickly and suddenly lose his effectiveness like Teemu Selanne.

Palffy has also had injury troubles in recent seasons and appeared in only 35 games in 2003-04. Still, Palffy is an incredibly smart player and would be a happy camper back in LA.

- - jesgolbez.blogspot.com/2005/07/palffy-and-stumpel-heading-back-to-los.html

[MC Habber]

I prefer Kovalev, mainly because of the chemistry he seemed to find with Koivu, but if we can't sign him, Satan would be a good option.

[TheCaper]

Gainey has tons of options for that UFA forward slot, tons. He’s got a lot of work to do between now and Oct 5, but I bet BG is sleeping like a baby.

O’Connell, on the other hand, is probably finding it pretty hard to get a restful sleep. That guy must be sweatin’ bullets, absolute bullets…

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

thecaper said:

Gainey has tons of options for that UFA forward slot, tons.

Unfortunately there are also tons of other teams weighing the very same options.

He’s got a lot of work to do between now and Oct 5, but I bet BG is sleeping like a baby.

What, he's wetting the bed?

[Douper]

I have faith in Gainey to get what we need. I'm hoping more for Glen Murray than Satan just because Glen could actually go get the puck in the corner and then get setup by Saku.

I'm not sure what the numbers are (didn't check) but are the Montreal "Canadiens" the team with the least Canadiens in the lineup in the league?

[TheCaper]

mrbozo said:

thecaper said:

Gainey has tons of options for that UFA forward slot, tons.

Unfortunately there are also tons of other teams weighing the very same options.

He’s got a lot of work to do between now and Oct 5, but I bet BG is sleeping like a baby.

What, he's wetting the bed?

I spoke too soon.

My guess is that Mr. Gainey will not be sleeping liking a baby tonight. A lot of tossing and turning going on. The demons may be suggesting to him that he may have just made a big mistake, a potentially very very big mistake.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

If we could get Satan for the price of say Bonk, do we really want to Bonk?
It's hard to guess what the going rate for players will be in 2005. Players like the US dollar have been devalued the last couple of years.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

habsfaninla said:

If we could get Satan for the price of say Bonk, do we really want to Bonk?
It's hard to guess what the going rate for players will be in 2005. Players like the US dollar have been devalued the last couple of years.

O'Neill signed a two-year deal with the Leafs for a total of $3M.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Sabres decline to retain Satan's rights

By John Wawrow, The Associated Press

Forward Miroslav Satan became an unrestricted free agent Sunday after the Buffalo Sabres declined to retain the rights of the team's six-time scoring leader.

By not qualifying Satan's $4 million contract for next season, general manager Darcy Regier said the Sabres can now use that money to address other needs, particularly at defense. Another factor making Satan expendable was the Sabres' depth at forward — a group that includes several young prospects projected to be ready to make the team next season.

"What it means is that you make choices," Regier said. "And the choices are that we have forwards, and we want to look at using the available resources as a means of bolstering our defense if possible."

Regier announced the decision after a 5 p.m. deadline passed for NHL teams to retain the rights of their restricted free agents.

The NHL's free agency period opens Monday.

The Sabres also declined to make a qualifying offer to tough-guy forward Eric Boulton, a four-year veteran.

Satan, who represents himself in negotiations *, was not available for comment.

Satan is a nine-year NHL veteran, who spent the last seven-plus years in Buffalo and was scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent after next season.

In 2003-04, Satan led the team with 29 goals and finished second with 57 points — the only season he didn't lead the team in that category.

- www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/sabres/2005-07-31-satan-sabres_x.htm

* that's what got him into trouble way back when

[mic]

mrbozo said:

habsfaninla said:

If we could get Satan for the price of say Bonk, do we really want to Bonk?
It's hard to guess what the going rate for players will be in 2005. Players like the US dollar have been devalued the last couple of years.

O'Neill signed a two-year deal with the Leafs for a total of $3M.

The fact that he wanted to go back to the Toronto area after very difficult months has certainly something to do with this "bargain" price in my opinion.