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Post by Doc Holliday on Oct 30, 2006 13:36:07 GMT -5
According to BARTLE at HABFANS, a rumor from Team 990 has Gainey chasing Lecavalier.
The rumor goes Lecavalier/Ranger for Ryder/Samsonov/Aebisher.
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Post by Polarice on Oct 30, 2006 14:50:04 GMT -5
According to BARTLE at HABFANS, a rumor from Team 990 has Gainey chasing Lecavalier. The rumor goes Lecavalier/Ranger for Ryder/Samsonov/Aebisher. Ranger? Where did that name come from? Another big D-man who dosen't use his size. Seems to much for my liking. |
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Post by higgins on Oct 30, 2006 15:00:21 GMT -5
According to BARTLE at HABFANS, a rumor from Team 990 has Gainey chasing Lecavalier. The rumor goes Lecavalier/Ranger for Ryder/Samsonov/Aebisher. Ranger? Where did that name come from? Another big D-man who dosen't use his size. Seems to much for my liking. not for me. that deal seems like a steal for the habs imo. with lecavalier the habs will be a contender (as long as the get good goaltending). do it, bob!! please??!! |
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Post by Marvin on Oct 30, 2006 15:57:18 GMT -5
Makes no sense whatsoever. You now have three holes in your lineup: Ryder, Samsanov and Abeshier. What are you going to do, bring up three rookies? It'll never happen - at least not with those players involved
Marv
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Post by Boston_Habs on Oct 30, 2006 16:15:35 GMT -5
Tough call. Makes sense for TB to use one of the Big 3 to add good depth at reasonable contracts but Ryder looks terrific this year and Samsonov is starting to heat up. The fans expect a top 5 team this year built around speed, skill, and depth. But, man, it's tough to pass up a franchise player like Vinny who plays a position where we have the least organizational depth. If I felt better about the future prospects of Perezhogin and Kostitsyn then I would do it in a heartbeat.
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Post by higgins on Oct 30, 2006 16:26:37 GMT -5
Tough call. Makes sense for TB to use one of the Big 3 to add good depth at reasonable contracts but Ryder looks terrific this year and Samsonov is starting to heat up. The fans expect a top 5 team this year built around speed, skill, and depth. But, man, it's tough to pass up a franchise player like Vinny who plays a position where we have the least organizational depth. If I felt better about the future prospects of Perezhogin and Kostitsyn then I would do it in a heartbeat. Perogi is playing great and Kost is NHL ready, imo. Abby is expendable since we have Huet and Danis, in case Huet falters. We exchage 2 wingers for a centre, which makes sense because we're going nowhere without a decent 2nd line centre, and we have an excess of scoring wingers. You can't give up nothing to get something, but I think those 3 is a VERY reasonable price to pay to pick up not only a franchise player in the exchange, but a french canadian (and local boy) franchise player, who actually WANTS to play here. |
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Post by higgins on Oct 30, 2006 16:28:15 GMT -5
Makes no sense whatsoever. You now have three holes in your lineup: Ryder, Samsanov and Abeshier. What are you going to do, bring up three rookies? It'll never happen - at least not with those players involved Marv Danis replaces Abby, Lecavalier replaces Sammy, and Lats or Kots replaces Ryder. Call up Lapierre to centre the 4th line. The Habs would be a much better team imo. |
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Post by Marvin on Oct 30, 2006 16:35:22 GMT -5
Inserting three rookies (Danis, Kots and Lapierre) is a gamble that I don't believe Gainey would make. Huet is not showing any consistency so far. How can you put a rookie as his back-up?
Marv
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Post by higgins on Oct 30, 2006 16:50:28 GMT -5
Inserting three rookies (Danis, Kots and Lapierre) is a gamble that I don't believe Gainey would make. Huet is not showing any consistency so far. How can you put a rookie as his back-up? Marv All 3 of those guys have NHL experience, and all have played pretty well in the NHL to boot. Kost is a bona-fide sniper who's going to need a spot on the top 2 lines anyway within the next 12 months, Lappiere is a prototypical 4th line grinder, and Danis, imo, has the potential to be at least as good as Abby. Personally, I don't see it as a big gamble. The upside is that we get Vinny, and the Habs will now have one 2 of the best scoring lines in the league, with a very good defense and (hopefully) solid goaltending. That spells success, imho. |
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Post by Marvin on Oct 30, 2006 17:03:27 GMT -5
"All those guys have NHL experience..and have played pretty well in the NHL to boot..."  Based on what? 5-10 games? Give me a break. As much as I'd love to se LeCavalier in a CH uniform, it will never happen under that scenario. Marv |
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Post by PTH on Oct 30, 2006 17:23:02 GMT -5
If Lecavalier wanted to be a Hab, he simply shouldn't have signed that contract, he knew the Habs would be after him that summer.
And I don't want to force a guy who doesn't want to be here to come....
Now, in addition to having snubbed us, to be able to get him we'll have to give a top-line winger in Ryder, another high-level winger, along with a starting goalie?
I don't like it one bit - even though I'd be willing to trade any of Ryder, Aeb and Samsonov under the right circumstances, I don't think this is it. Besides, Lecavalier isn't *that* terrific, he's never taken that next step....
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Post by cigarviper on Oct 30, 2006 17:37:36 GMT -5
Give them Kovy, Pleks, Danis and a 1st.  Could you imagine Kovy and Tortorella?  Seriously, the mere fact that this is a rumour means it will not happen. If we get him at all, it will be when he's "not available" or considered. |
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Post by Andrew on Oct 30, 2006 17:55:10 GMT -5
Kost is a bona-fide sniper who's going to need a spot on the top 2 lines anyway within the next 12 months. He hasn't done much at the pro level to indicate that he'll realize his potential as top line sniper. His AHL stats are at around .5 points a game: GP: 136 Goals: 30 Assists: 43 Points: 73 |
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Post by jkr on Oct 30, 2006 18:16:26 GMT -5
And Feaster traded a good winger in Modin to get Marc Denis & is paying Denis 2.8 million. What would he do with Aebischer?
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Post by franko on Oct 30, 2006 20:57:15 GMT -5
I think those 3 is a VERY reasonable price to pay to pick up not only a franchise player in the exchange, but a french canadian (and local boy) franchise player, who actually WANTS to play here. Huh? How do you see that? If Lecavalier wanted to be a Hab, he simply shouldn't have signed that contract, he knew the Habs would be after him that summer. My immediate thought. Give them Kovy, Pleks, Danis and a 1st. Seriously, the mere fact that this is a rumour means it will not happen. If we get him at all, it will be when he's "not available" or considered. And that was my next one. Has BG done anything yet that anyone heard of? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2006 21:04:59 GMT -5
Franchise player?! Give me a break! Lecavalier has massive amounts of skill, but doesn't show it night in and night out. Samsonov, Ryder and Aebischer are all hard workers, who if they're not putting pucks in the net, they're at least trying (well, Aebischer doesn't really have any goal-scoring ability).
Lecavalier is highly overrated. NO.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Oct 30, 2006 22:18:57 GMT -5
I love Ryder, but I wouold do it IF, IF, IF the deal was offered.
Samsonov = minor loss
Aebischer = small risk of Huet not repeating.
Lecavalier to the Hab's rumor #2,779
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Post by higgins on Oct 31, 2006 14:45:11 GMT -5
"All those guys have NHL experience..and have played pretty well in the NHL to boot..." Based on what? 5-10 games? Give me a break. As much as I'd love to se LeCavalier in a CH uniform, it will never happen under that scenario. Marv Kost did not look out of place with the Habs last year, but the point is that you don't draft a guy 5th overall and then not give him a legit shot to crack the lineup as a scorer! Lapierre also looked good last year (remember he's a grinder, not a scorer), and Danis got a shutout in his first NHL game. What, we're gonna let these guys rot in the AHL until they're 30? This is not the Rejean Houle era. Guys need to be given a shot, AND we need to patient with them and their development. Higgins did not have a great first half last year, but look how he's turning out. Perogi also looked out of place last season, but now, imo, he's one of our most dynamic forwards. Guys like Kots, Lats, Price etc all need to be given a shot before we throw them away. Otherwise they may never develop and reach their full potential. |
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Post by higgins on Oct 31, 2006 14:48:00 GMT -5
I think those 3 is a VERY reasonable price to pay to pick up not only a franchise player in the exchange, but a french canadian (and local boy) franchise player, who actually WANTS to play here. Huh? How do you see that? My immediate thought. Give them Kovy, Pleks, Danis and a 1st. Seriously, the mere fact that this is a rumour means it will not happen. If we get him at all, it will be when he's "not available" or considered. And that was my next one. Has BG done anything yet that anyone heard of? Lecavalier was quoted as saying he gave serious thought to signing a one year deal so that he could become a UFA, and he also said he'd love to play with the Habs. He signed a long-term deal with TB because of all the money they threw at him. Can you blame him? It doesn't mean he only wants to play in Tampa, it just means that he's happy there, and happy with his contact. |
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Post by higgins on Oct 31, 2006 14:50:52 GMT -5
Franchise player?! Give me a break! Lecavalier has massive amounts of skill, but doesn't show it night in and night out. Samsonov, Ryder and Aebischer are all hard workers, who if they're not putting pucks in the net, they're at least trying (well, Aebischer doesn't really have any goal-scoring ability). Lecavalier is highly overrated. NO. IMO he is not overrated. He's playing well in TB, but I think he's the kind of player who needs to be in a big market to reach his full potential, and that market is Montreal, imo. Nobody cares about hockey in TB. They had to practically give away tickets to get fans to come to their PLAYOFF games! That's not the kind of environment that brings out the best in certain players, imo. |
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Post by insomnius on Oct 31, 2006 15:05:12 GMT -5
I think he's the kind of player who needs to be in a big market to reach his full potential, and that market is Montreal, imo. Nobody cares about hockey in TB. They had to practically give away tickets to get fans to come to their PLAYOFF games! That's not the kind of environment that brings out the best in certain players, imo. And IMHO any player who "needs" to have his name chanted or needs to play in a big market to reach his potential can "reach" somewhere else - Can you say Ovechkin? Staal? Anze Kopitar? Are these big hockey markets? If Vinny needs that big market I say let him go to Toronto.... |
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Post by higgins on Oct 31, 2006 15:20:52 GMT -5
I think he's the kind of player who needs to be in a big market to reach his full potential, and that market is Montreal, imo. Nobody cares about hockey in TB. They had to practically give away tickets to get fans to come to their PLAYOFF games! That's not the kind of environment that brings out the best in certain players, imo. And IMHO any player who "needs" to have his name chanted or needs to play in a big market to reach his potential can "reach" somewhere else - Can you say Ovechkin? Staal? Anze Kopitar? Are these big hockey markets? If Vinny needs that big market I say let him go to Toronto.... Actually yes, I consider LA, Washington, and Pittsburg fairly decent hockey markets. Luongo never did much with the Panthers... Besides, it's not like Vinny's not playing well in TB. IMO he's still one of the top 20 centres in the NHL today. I just think he could play better in his hometown. Is that really so shocking, to think that some players might play better in certain environments? |
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Post by insomnius on Oct 31, 2006 15:27:42 GMT -5
I meant Eric Staal in North Carolina - where they had to give away tickets too.....not Jordan - I will not go into an argument with you over the "big markets" in LA, Washington and Pittsburgh - suffice it to say I disagree....I consider Detroit, Boston, New York, New Jersey, Toronto, Montreal as big markets for hockey - the LA times is not even sending anyone toi cover away games this season...
And to say that Luongo never did much with the Panthers? Let's just say that you and I do not see things the same way at all....
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Post by higgins on Oct 31, 2006 15:36:32 GMT -5
I meant Eric Staal in North Carolina - where they had to give away tickets too.....not Jordan - I will not go into an argument with you over the "big markets" in LA, Washington and Pittsburgh - suffice it to say I disagree....I consider Detroit, Boston, New York, New Jersey, Toronto, Montreal as big markets for hockey - the LA times is not even sending anyone toi cover away games this season... And to say that Luongo never did much with the Panthers? Let's just say that you and I do not see things the same way at all.... Personally, I think that Luongo is the best goalie in the NHL, but if memory serves me correct, he only had one or two good seasons, and last year was not one of them. As for Staal, of course NC is a small market, but I said that SOME players need a particular market to reach their potential, not all. Personnally, I think that Vinnie is a guy who needs to be pushed constantly, and Montreal is just the place for that. That's it....I don't understand everyone's response since I really don't think I said anything that contraversial, but whatever. |
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Post by Skilly on Oct 31, 2006 19:42:21 GMT -5
Lecavalier+Ranger = 7.325 Million
Ryder+Samsonov+Aebischer = 7.625 Million
oohhh looks like someone looked up a few names where the salaries were close ..... BUT
Because we have just created two holes in the line-up. Now you also have to add the contracts of "the rookie" you call up. Kosts you say? Not gonna happen. He comes with a $800,000 K price tag. Kostitsyn and Danis will add another 1.344 million. So the trade actually adds 8.669 million to Montreal's salary cap. That would add an additional 1.045 Million to the salary we have now....
oh yeah we have 1.1 million cap room available, so it leaves us with approximately 55 thousand for the trade deadline. The actual nmber may be over 150k because 12% of the season is over ... but you get the point, it is too tight to happen.
EDIT: Of course this doesn't include the extra defenseman we have and one of them could be "demoted" ...hmmm who? ..... no matter who is is would have to clear waivers and we'd lose them .....
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Post by PTH on Nov 1, 2006 0:05:10 GMT -5
Lecavalier+Ranger = 7.325 Million Ryder+Samsonov+Aebischer = 7.625 Million oohhh looks like someone looked up a few names where the salaries were close ..... BUT Because we have just created two holes in the line-up. Now you also have to add the contracts of "the rookie" you call up. Kosts you say? Not gonna happen. He comes with a $800,000 K price tag. Kostitsyn and Danis will add another 1.344 million. So the trade actually adds 8.669 million to Montreal's salary cap. That would add an additional 1.045 Million to the salary we have now.... oh yeah we have 1.1 million cap room available, so it leaves us with approximately 55 thousand for the trade deadline. The actual nmber may be over 150k because 12% of the season is over ... but you get the point, it is too tight to happen. EDIT: Of course this doesn't include the extra defenseman we have and one of them could be "demoted" ...hmmm who? ..... no matter who is is would have to clear waivers and we'd lose them ..... Hmmm, so maybe this means the deal should be Niinimaa, Samsonov and Aeb for the 2 TB players ? OK, it's now totally unfair for TB, but at least salary-wise it works ! |
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Post by MC Habber on Nov 1, 2006 1:36:49 GMT -5
Do we need to make a deadline deal if we have Vinny? That is, could this be the deadline deal, only early?
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Post by Skilly on Nov 1, 2006 6:56:48 GMT -5
Do we need to make a deadline deal if we have Vinny? That is, could this be the deadline deal, only early? Ok .. say we get Vinny tomorrow and when February 27th rolls around we are in a quagmire struggling in the standings in the 8th, 9th, 10th spots. Do we make a deadline deal to try and make the playoffs? Do we go with what we have? Getting Vinny does not equate to success. If anything it equates to having to go through "training camp" again because we would have a different team make-up. Acquiring him could actually hurt the team. Being tight to the cap obviously does not mean you can't make a deal, it just means you have to deal for players with similar salaries .... which isn't such an easy thing. "Will you please take our 2.5 million guy who is doing lousy, and we take your 2.5 million guy who is doing awesome?"  |
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Post by higgins on Nov 1, 2006 9:17:58 GMT -5
Lecavalier+Ranger = 7.325 Million Ryder+Samsonov+Aebischer = 7.625 Million oohhh looks like someone looked up a few names where the salaries were close ..... BUT Because we have just created two holes in the line-up. Now you also have to add the contracts of "the rookie" you call up. Kosts you say? Not gonna happen. He comes with a $800,000 K price tag. Kostitsyn and Danis will add another 1.344 million. So the trade actually adds 8.669 million to Montreal's salary cap. That would add an additional 1.045 Million to the salary we have now.... oh yeah we have 1.1 million cap room available, so it leaves us with approximately 55 thousand for the trade deadline. The actual nmber may be over 150k because 12% of the season is over ... but you get the point, it is too tight to happen. EDIT: Of course this doesn't include the extra defenseman we have and one of them could be "demoted" ...hmmm who? ..... no matter who is is would have to clear waivers and we'd lose them ..... You're assuming though that BG won't make another deal at some point, or that a key player or two won't be out for an extended period o time. I'm sure one of those two scenarios will unfold, most likely the latter. I realise there's a 99.999999% chance this won't happen, but it's fun to speculate, and besides, it's a slow work week! lol |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 1, 2006 14:26:15 GMT -5
I didn't think I'd get involved in this thread but what the hoot. I've got reports due up the ying-yang, but it's always good to break it up here and there (done that a lot today actually).
When Serge Savard first took over the Habs way back when, one of the first things he did was go after a big centerman. He landed Bobby Smith in exchange for almost all of the Habs offence; Keith Acton and Mark Napier. Smith went on to be a major part of the '86 Cup winner.
According to my source last year, Gainey enquired as to the availability of Lecavalier and Joe Thorton. The one player who was touted in going the other way as part of a bigger package in both cases was Mike Komisarek.
This deal looks suspicious on the surface. Unless TB doesn't have too much wiggle room in their cap, I'd be surprised if they settle for this deal. However, they could use an upgrade in goaltending and Aebischer would fill that requirement at the expense depleting our own goaltending depth.
I honestly haven't followed Ranger. I know he's played well against the Habs but that's about it.
But, while the deal seems do-able, I think removing Ryder, Samsonov and Aebischer all at once would also deplete our team's chemistry. This was already a tight team before the media generated controversies surrounding coach Carbonneau, Kovalev, Samsonov and Latendresse. If nothing else, this should bind them into an even stronger unit.
Cheers.
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Based on what? 5-10 games? Give me a break. As much as I'd love to se LeCavalier in a CH uniform, it will never happen under that scenario.
