Habs interested in Cammalleri?

[blny]

Spectors ....

Cammalleri for Ryder and a 4th rounder. Came from a radio show apparently.


Also mentions interest in Phoenix. I won't post those particulars because the deal doesn't interest me. I would do the above.

[habfan74]

where do we sign

[Disgruntled70sHab]

I saw it on another board earlier today BLNY. Cammalleri is listed as a C/W but is a lefty.

I'd be surprised if Gainey goes after him for Ryder. Cammalleri is on LA's top line but is only 5'9" and 180 lbs.

The other rumour from 'Specture's Mailbag' involves Doan and Rienprecht, for Ryder, Niinimaa, Danis, a player to be named later and a 1st-round draft pick.

spectorshockey.tripod.com/spectors_trade_rumours.html

It's easy to dismiss a lot of these rumours as just that. Any trade involving Niinimaa has to be taken with a grain of salt. However, Doan is a Gainey-type player to the core. I remember the Habs wanting him first but the Jets snatched him up just before we drafted Terry Ryan (who ran into concussion problems and left the game in 02/03. His last team was the Cincinnati Cyclones).

I'd like to see a Souray-for-Doan straight up. It would take Doan a while to be accepted by his teammates but he is the Phoenix captain. There's also the cap issue, but I think he might be a tad cheaper to re-sign next year compared to what Souray might be demanding on the UFA market.

Cheers.

[blny]

Cammalleri is small, but has a lot of skill. His lack of size, and a small history of injuries, could be a concern in the East, but I'd be more than willing to try it out. Off Samsonov and Kovalev, Alex would be the shooter. With a lefty center feeding pucks more easily, I think it's a natural fit. Cammalleri is as good a scorer as he is a playmaker.

The Phoenix rumour includes Reinprect. I have no interest in him. His extremely brittle, and I don't think he's the type of center (when healthy) that we're looking for. I don't really see him as an upgrade on Plekanec. Doan is a UFA, and it's unclear what his market value will be. I would expect something near $ 4 million or higher. I like Shane, but is he what we need? I think it's a greater priority to fill glaring holes. Making the deal less appealing to me is the fact that we would send Ryder, "another player", AND a first (along with Janne). IMO, even though Ryder is an RFA this Summer, it's too high a price.

[franko]

blny said:

Also mentions interest in Phoenix. I won't post those particulars because the deal doesn't interest me.

I'll say [that is, I agree].

[duster]

I like Cammalleri. He's a real threat around the net and he's been pretty durable so far. I think Ryder and a fourth is a bit much...

Gretzky and co. must want the moon for Doan as I'm certain plenty of teams would love to have him. The Coyotes seem pretty deep at centre and on defense. The Phoenix farm system is in pretty rough shape, however. They have no quality goaltending depth after Joseph and LeNeveu, for example. Would they want Souray?

[blny]

duster said:

I like Cammalleri. He's a real threat around the net and he's been pretty durable so far. I think Ryder and a fourth is a bit much...

Gretzky and co. must want the moon for Doan as I'm certain plenty of teams would love to have him. The Coyotes seem pretty deep at centre and on defense. The Phoenix farm system is in pretty rough shape, however. They have no quality goaltending depth after Joseph and LeNeveu, for example. Would they want Souray?

I don't think so. They have Jovo, Morris, Boynton, and Ballard.

[Skilly]

I would not do the Cammalleri deal for ohhh so many reasons. Let's compare the two shall we?

Cammalleri:
Age: 24
Seasons: in his 4th
Goals: 55
Assists: 59
Points: 114
Number of 20 goal seasons: 1
Number of 30 goal seasons: 0
Games Played: 182 (2 seasons where he played 28 and 31 games)
Games Missed in Professional career: 105
Average season: 46 GP - 13G - 13A - 26pts


Ryder:
Age: 26
Seasons: in his 3rd
Goals: 66
Assists: 79
Points: 145
Number of 20 goal seasons: 2
Number of 30 goal seasons: 1
Games Played: 204
Games missed in professional career: 2
Average season: 81GP - 27G - 32A - 59pts


I must be daft .... but it seems obvious to me who the better commodity is.

I like the Doan/Reinprecht deal better. Nothing says we have to play Reinprecht over Plekanec. But I am not sure that deal is feasible from a cap perspective:

Doan + Reinprecht = 5.192

Ryder + Niinimaa = 4.67 (assuming Danis is shipped to the AHL)

We'd be adding another $250,000 ... ok so it is doable. That's the one I would do ... if we trade Ryder, we need a first liner, not a trash heap second line hopeful ... neglect Reinprecht, I consider him much the same as Niinimaa. A toss in to get the cap and other problems, figured out. It is basically a Doan for Ryder package and yes I would do that, especially if we are looking at a pick in the 20's.

On draft day we could always try and trade Price if we wanted a certain player high in the draft anyway.

Doan
Age: 30
Seasons: in his 11th
Goals: 183
Assists: 256
Points: 439
Number of 20 goal seasons: 6
Number of 30 goal seasons: 1
Games Played: 762
Games missed in professional career: 76
Average season: 73GP - 17G - 25A - 42pts

However, Doan first four season were terrible. You neglect those and count his last 6 seasons he averages: 80GP - 25G - 34A - 59pts
Well, I'll be ... same as Ryder's. Now that is called traded like assests. Only difference is, Ryder didn't have Gretzky's friendship to get him invitations to represent Canada.

[Skilly]

Cammalleri is a RFA at season's end, and Doan is an UFA .... thats the only thing that would make me hesitate with Doan ... but if we can get a trade ad sign deal, then I would do it. Why trade for Cammalleri? We have smallish forwards in the minors who can take his role just as easily .... we all say that the Habs need to have grit and go work hard for the puck .... that describes Doan, not Cammisole... err "texas hold'em Mikey"

[blny]

skilly said:

Cammalleri is a RFA at season's end, and Doan is an UFA .... thats the only thing that would make me hesitate with Doan ... but if we can get a trade ad sign deal, then I would do it. Why trade for Cammalleri? We have smallish forwards in the minors who can take his role just as easily .... we all say that the Habs need to have grit and go work hard for the puck .... that describes Doan, not Cammisole... err "texas hold'em Mikey"

Grit is nice, but it doesn't address our lack of balance on two lines. Doan makes one line better. He also adds a lot of salary to a position we have an abundance of cheaper youth to implement and develop.

Cammalleri isn't a lock, but his success this season is IMO a good indicator of where he's going. His level of skill has never been in denial. He's had some of the bad luck that ravaged the Kings while Murray was there. I think his upside is higher than Ryder's.

[seventeen]

skilly said:

Well, I'll be ... same as Ryder's. Now that is called traded like assests. Only difference is, Ryder didn't have Gretzky's friendship to get him invitations to represent Canada.

Or his prairie farm boy work ethic, leadership qualities and defensive awareness. Ryder has quicker hands, and they're similar skaters, but Doan is stronger and better in every other way.

[Skilly]

blny said:

Grit is nice, but it doesn't address our lack of balance on two lines. Doan makes one line better.

I dont mean to be saucy, but are we getting Cammalerri's twin also? How does Cammaleri make two lines better? He'd play center on the second line. Pleky/Grabs can and will do just as good a job. You just can't plop anyone on a line with Kovalev/Samsonov and make it work.

With Doan and Reinprecht we can finally move Kovalev up with Koivu, I think it makes our top seven/eight players more strong. Cammalerri is a lateral move for Pleky that leaves us a right winger short ... If you then promote Kovalev to Koivu's line your second line is weak. Then you bring up from the lower lines making them weak ....

[Marvin]

Cammalleri is a fine player, but I wouldn't trade him for anyone on our roster. In my opinion, I think Grabovski is clicking with Samsanov and Kovalev. Leave him there.

Marv

[blny]

skilly said:

blny said:

Grit is nice, but it doesn't address our lack of balance on two lines. Doan makes one line better.

I dont mean to be saucy, but are we getting Cammalerri's twin also? How does Cammaleri make two lines better? He'd play center on the second line. Pleky/Grabs can and will do just as good a job. You just can't plop anyone on a line with Kovalev/Samsonov and make it work.

With Doan and Reinprecht we can finally move Kovalev up with Koivu, I think it makes our top seven/eight players more strong. Cammalerri is a lateral move for Pleky that leaves us a right winger short ... If you then promote Kovalev to Koivu's line your second line is weak. Then you bring up from the lower lines making them weak ....

It's not saucy. We've bantered about here that the team needs a second line center. I agree that not just anyone is going to work. We've tried a few. Ignoring Doan for a moment, would you rather have Reinprecht than Cammalleri? I wouldn't. Steve is more prone to injury than 90% of the league. He's 30. He's a whopping 8lbs heavier than Cammalleri according to TSN. I don't think he's got the offensive upside of MC either. If he was acquired to be our third line center, I could handle that, but Reinprecht shouldn't be relied on to provide offense at this point. At 24, Cammalleri has a lot of years in front of him. He's not even in his prime yet.

I like Doan. I'd like to have him on our roster in an ideal world. That ideal world would already have our issues at center resolved. Of the two rumours, I think Cammalleri better addresses it. He can score as well as he sets up. He's got excellent speed and creativity.

You want to put Doan and Reinprecht on the second line and move Kovalev upto the first. I don't see the first line as the problem. We've got Latendresse playing pretty darn well. He's in the top ten in rookie scoring, and I'd wager he's spent more time than any on the 4th line. It's not because he's played poorly either. Let the kid play. He's certainly cost effective, and learning at a decent rate. I don't think we need to add wingers to the roster. We've got the depth to fill spaces. There are players ready for prime time. I don't think we need to break up the wingers if we address the center position.

If Grabovsky works, great. That's the easiest, and cheapest solution. I'm merely talking about the two rumors. Of the two, I'll take the youth, upside, and contract status of Cammalleri over Doan and Reinprecht.

[Skilly]

blny said:

It's not saucy. We've bantered about here that the team needs a second line center. I agree that not just anyone is going to work. We've tried a few. Ignoring Doan for a moment, would you rather have Reinprecht than Cammalleri? I wouldn't. Steve is more prone to injury than 90% of the league. He's 30. He's a whopping 8lbs heavier than Cammalleri according to TSN. I don't think he's got the offensive upside of MC either. If he was acquired to be our third line center, I could handle that, but Reinprecht shouldn't be relied on to provide offense at this point. At 24, Cammalleri has a lot of years in front of him. He's not even in his prime yet.

I like Doan. I'd like to have him on our roster in an ideal world. That ideal world would already have our issues at center resolved. Of the two rumours, I think Cammalleri better addresses it. He can score as well as he sets up. He's got excellent speed and creativity.

You want to put Doan and Reinprecht on the second line and move Kovalev upto the first. I don't see the first line as the problem. We've got Latendresse playing pretty darn well. He's in the top ten in rookie scoring, and I'd wager he's spent more time than any on the 4th line. It's not because he's played poorly either. Let the kid play. He's certainly cost effective, and learning at a decent rate. I don't think we need to add wingers to the roster. We've got the depth to fill spaces. There are players ready for prime time. I don't think we need to break up the wingers if we address the center position.

If Grabovsky works, great. That's the easiest, and cheapest solution. I'm merely talking about the two rumors. Of the two, I'll take the youth, upside, and contract status of Cammalleri over Doan and Reinprecht.

If Ryder is traded, you need to replace his production on the first line. Lats is good, he brings alot to the team, but at this point in his development, a reliable go to scorer he is not. That's why that line needs Kovalev if Ryder is traded. I know I probably get a few snickers when I have said this in the past, but I feel the chemistry on the first line is not with Koivu and Higgins. It is with Ryder and Koivu ... and I'll go one step further and say Ryder has rejuvenated Koivu's career but banging, crashing, creating space and getting those garbage goals. It is no coincidence that Ryder was put on that line in January of last year (I'll assume it was the beginning of January ... I remember it was during our 7 game losing streak) and in the 87 games since they were paired, Saku Koivu has 74 points.

I'd have Doan and Reinprecht together only because they had to play together in Phoenix at one point. And instead of throwing one guy into our mix, let throw one of our (who hasn't worked with anyone) into theirs.

Higgins-Koivu-Kovalev
Samsonov-Reinprecht-Doan
Johnson-Bonk-Perezhogin
Lats-Lapierre-Begin/Pleky

Roll the furbies.

With Cammalerri who do we play with him? Samsonov and Kovalev pressumably. Then you want Lats with Koivu. So that 2 gambles now. Just to get rid of our only true goal scorer. No ... I don't think Cammalerri would work on Montreal.

[Skilly]

seventeen said:

Or his prairie farm boy work ethic, leadership qualities and defensive awareness. Ryder has quicker hands, and they're similar skaters, but Doan is stronger and better in every other way.

I know you didn't intend for your comment to be misconstrued ... and since I know you from here, I know you didn't mean anything ... but what does "prairie farm boy work ethic" have to do with anything?

This is where I am not directing the comment to you but more to the post .... was Michael Ryder born with a silver spoon in his mouth in the affluent, lazy, culture of defeatists, little fishing town of Bonavista? Fishermen work just as hard as farmers.

And where has anyone read that Ryder is not a leader in the locker-room. All reports I have read have said the team loves him, he is a great guy to have around, has a way of loosening the guys up with his wit , and most guys love (ewwwww ) rooming with himon the road. Doan is only a leader because Gretzky justifies picking him by saying he is ... I certainly havent witnessed it, as I havent Ryder's ... but we cant say he isnt either.

Doan is stronger, and more defensively aware as you said ... and I agree he is a better play .... and thats why it is a good trade, not because he has a prairie boy work ethic. Cause working his ass off in the ECHL right up to one vote away from the Calder trophy shows me that Ryder does indeed have a strong work ethic, a work ethic that Newfoundland is famous for.

Again ... not directed at you seventeen ... just when I read it I couldn't get it off my mind.

[seventeen]

I don't take it personally. Doan is one of those Sutter type players, hard working, digging, a decent scorer, strong on the puck and very deserving of being on Team Canada (as a role player, definitely), not a top 6. I like Ryder, and he works in his own way, but I just wouldn't put him in a Sutter class, like I would Doan. I don't think Ryder can be a role player in the sense that Doan was for Team Canada. I think Doan's selection was a good one.

In our everyday NHL world, Doan is surely a top 6, but not the top scorer on the line. He'd probably get the most assists and be a terrific two way player. RW on the second line on the Habs, that's Doan. You know what, before I trade Ryder (and I'd want a lot for him), I'd try him on the second line at left wing. He's always done well coming off that wing, so why not? It's not like the incumbent is setting the world on fire. To replace Ryder, I'd use either Gui or Perez.

PS. I work hard too, and I'm not a prairie farm boy either.

[blny]

skilly said:

blny said:

It's not saucy. We've bantered about here that the team needs a second line center. I agree that not just anyone is going to work. We've tried a few. Ignoring Doan for a moment, would you rather have Reinprecht than Cammalleri? I wouldn't. Steve is more prone to injury than 90% of the league. He's 30. He's a whopping 8lbs heavier than Cammalleri according to TSN. I don't think he's got the offensive upside of MC either. If he was acquired to be our third line center, I could handle that, but Reinprecht shouldn't be relied on to provide offense at this point. At 24, Cammalleri has a lot of years in front of him. He's not even in his prime yet.

I like Doan. I'd like to have him on our roster in an ideal world. That ideal world would already have our issues at center resolved. Of the two rumours, I think Cammalleri better addresses it. He can score as well as he sets up. He's got excellent speed and creativity.

You want to put Doan and Reinprecht on the second line and move Kovalev upto the first. I don't see the first line as the problem. We've got Latendresse playing pretty darn well. He's in the top ten in rookie scoring, and I'd wager he's spent more time than any on the 4th line. It's not because he's played poorly either. Let the kid play. He's certainly cost effective, and learning at a decent rate. I don't think we need to add wingers to the roster. We've got the depth to fill spaces. There are players ready for prime time. I don't think we need to break up the wingers if we address the center position.

If Grabovsky works, great. That's the easiest, and cheapest solution. I'm merely talking about the two rumors. Of the two, I'll take the youth, upside, and contract status of Cammalleri over Doan and Reinprecht.

If Ryder is traded, you need to replace his production on the first line. Lats is good, he brings alot to the team, but at this point in his development, a reliable go to scorer he is not. That's why that line needs Kovalev if Ryder is traded. I know I probably get a few snickers when I have said this in the past, but I feel the chemistry on the first line is not with Koivu and Higgins. It is with Ryder and Koivu ... and I'll go one step further and say Ryder has rejuvenated Koivu's career but banging, crashing, creating space and getting those garbage goals. It is no coincidence that Ryder was put on that line in January of last year (I'll assume it was the beginning of January ... I remember it was during our 7 game losing streak) and in the 87 games since they were paired, Saku Koivu has 74 points.

I'd have Doan and Reinprecht together only because they had to play together in Phoenix at one point. And instead of throwing one guy into our mix, let throw one of our (who hasn't worked with anyone) into theirs.

Higgins-Koivu-Kovalev
Samsonov-Reinprecht-Doan
Johnson-Bonk-Perezhogin
Lats-Lapierre-Begin/Pleky

Roll the furbies.

With Cammalerri who do we play with him? Samsonov and Kovalev pressumably. Then you want Lats with Koivu. So that 2 gambles now. Just to get rid of our only true goal scorer. No ... I don't think Cammalerri would work on Montreal.

I don't think it's that big a gamble. When Higgins was out Lats stepped in and did a great job.

Reinprecht and Doan are gambles too. Steve's is two fold: health and production. It's a gamble in terms of free agency. Doan will be one this Summer. There's no guarantee we resign him, even if we want to. Reinprecht, at 30, is not far from that world either. Cammalleri at least gives us several years before we have to go down that road - lessening the impact on the cap. That brings me to my next gamble - the cap. For me, it's a bigger priority to retain Souray and Markov than it is to bring in a Doan-type player (of which there are a plenty really). Bringing in someone about to be as expensive jeopardizes that ability.

If I am going to break the bank for a forward, at the sacrifice of one of either Markov or Souray, I'd rather it be a center. I like our present mix of forwards, lack of production not withstanding. I think it makes more sense to address a glaring problem with an attempted solution before changing that mix.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

The way I see it, players like Doan don't come along every day. GM's tend to hang onto their captains and character players. He reminds me of a more talented, younger version of Shayne Corson.

If he is available and a deal can be made for a guy like Doan, that also fits into the club salary cap, then you have to get the deal done.

Like someone already pointed out, it's hard to know what Doan will be asking for next season. But, that's the same scenario as Souray ... nudge, nudge, wink, wink ... say no more, say no more!

Cheers.

[Skilly]

blny said:

I don't think it's that big a gamble. When Higgins was out Lats stepped in and did a great job.

Lats worked with Koivu-Ryder ... he has never played with Higgins and there is the gamble. Over the past three season everyone has worked well with Ryder, and koivu has benefited the most.

Lats played well as a left winger on the first line, now which of Higgins/Lats do you move to right? I just think the first line will miss Ryder's shooting and production. No one on the line would be a shooter, and no one has the shot of a Ryder to create those rebounds for the garbage goal.

That brings me to my next gamble - the cap. For me, it's a bigger priority to retain Souray and Markov than it is to bring in a Doan-type player (of which there are a plenty really). Bringing in someone about to be as expensive jeopardizes that ability.

Cammarelli for Ryder is no savings in cap ... they are both paid 2.2 million. The Phoenix deal means we add $250,000 with a rising salary cap. It shouldn't be too hard to fit in the cap.

Cammalerri is a RFA next year, and then a free agent the following. So it isn't years. Just one more.

If I am going to break the bank for a forward, at the sacrifice of one of either Markov or Souray, I'd rather it be a center. I like our present mix of forwards, lack of production not withstanding. I think it makes more sense to address a glaring problem with an attempted solution before changing that mix.

I think Bob has to recognize and accept right now that he is losing one. Choose the player is wants to keep and trade the other for that defense asset we require beyond this year. Ryder then can still be used to get us a top six forward.

[blny]

skilly said:

Lats worked with Koivu-Ryder ... he has never played with Higgins and there is the gamble. Over the past three season everyone has worked well with Ryder, and koivu has benefited the most.

Lats played well as a left winger on the first line, now which of Higgins/Lats do you move to right? I just think the first line will miss Ryder's shooting and production. No one on the line would be a shooter, and no one has the shot of a Ryder to create those rebounds for the garbage goal.

I think Higgins has shown his propensity to shoot. He might not be a shoot first, ask questions later, type of player but he's scored goals by shooting from various places. He's also done it using speed, and getting his nose dirty. It makes him, IMO, a more dynamic player.

I think Lats is capable of playing either side. He's done it before hasn't he? His role is to create down low, and in traffic. I think he should be able to do that from either side.

skilly said:

Cammarelli for Ryder is no savings in cap ... they are both paid 2.2 million. The Phoenix deal means we add $250,000 with a rising salary cap. It shouldn't be too hard to fit in the cap.

Cammalerri is a RFA next year, and then a free agent the following. So it isn't years. Just one more.

The Phoenix deal adds that now, but adds a lot more if you retain Doan. Cammalleri won't be looking at a substantial raise, if any, this Summer and depending on production and perception likely won't command what Doan will on the open market. I think he addresses our need better than Reinprecht does though, and for potentially a lot longer.

skilly said:

I think Bob has to recognize and accept right now that he is losing one. Choose the player is wants to keep and trade the other for that defense asset we require beyond this year. Ryder then can still be used to get us a top six forward.

Perhaps only in a package would Souray or Markov garner anything resembling their value. Trading one now nets us what? They're both UFAs. Who slips in to replace their production? I think they're incredibily difficult to replace, and as long as the league is calling penalties they're incredibly important to our special teams success.

I don't expect Markov to jump ship. I think he'll be fairly easy to re-sign. Markov gives me the impression that if he leaves it will be to go back home and play in Russia. The only thing pulling Souray away is the lure of his daughter. If he's capable of playing this far away from her for one more contract, then I see no reason not to keep him for the year and attempt to get him signed.

The only way either gets moved is if we're dramatically out of the playoff picture. We may yet drop further in the standings, though I doubt it, but I don't expect us to be out of the hunt.

[Skilly]

blny said:

I think Higgins has shown his propensity to shoot. He might not be a shoot first, ask questions later, type of player but he's scored goals by shooting from various places. He's also done it using speed, and getting his nose dirty. It makes him, IMO, a more dynamic player.

Just from observation, which you can refute, I find that Higgins gets most of his goals into open nets caused by scrambles in front caused by Ryder's shot.

Ryder gets most of his from shooting from anywhere and everywhere, and getting in front of the net and tipping, deflecting, banging away.

IMO, neither is really dynamic on the line ..... Higgins is dynamic in a short-handed situation and Ryder is dynamic on the PP. Six to one, half dozen to another as far as I am concerned.

I think Lats is capable of playing either side. He's done it before hasn't he? His role is to create down low, and in traffic. I think he should be able to do that from either side.

He may be able to ... but on every lin ehe has played this year I saw him on the left side. Now that maybe because we are strong on the right side (Ryder, Johnson, Kovalev). But even on the fourth line he is playing left wing and PLeky is right wing.

I believe in junior he was a right wing .... but Higgins was a center in NCAA .... it dont mean much against the big-dogs in the NHL.

The Phoenix deal adds that now, but adds a lot more if you retain Doan. Cammalleri won't be looking at a substantial raise, if any, this Summer and depending on production and perception likely won't command what Doan will on the open market. I think he addresses our need better than Reinprecht does though, and for potentially a lot longer

.

True ... but it also is in line with go for it this year. Doan has never been on a winning team. If we get in the dance and make some noise, and he gets to witness playoff hockey in Montreal .... he will stay. Maybe hasn't seen something like that since Winnipeg.

I don't expect Markov to jump ship. I think he'll be fairly easy to re-sign. Markov gives me the impression that if he leaves it will be to go back home and play in Russia.

I fully expect Markov to jump ship. In fact, I will name two teams he will go to in a heartbeat if Montreal doesn't act quickly to sign him and show him comfort (ie .. keep a Russian flav to the team).

I expect Markov to sign with Buffalo or Washington. There are only two players in the entire NHL that the reclusive Markov calls his best friends. He is constantly talking to them on the phone, and according to one announcers, he has expressed a will to play with one of them. These friends are Maxim Aginogenov and Alexander Ovechkin. One a contender, the other a rising power .... both in relative hockey abscurity. If we are more like pretenders this year and slow to build this team I see him going and playing with one of his friends. Friendship and family are Markov main things in life ...and keeps him tied to Russia.

The only thing pulling Souray away is the lure of his daughter. If he's capable of playing this far away from her for one more contract, then I see no reason not to keep him for the year and attempt to get him signed.

And this lure is why there is no way Souray is back. I have two daughters, and trust me if they lived in Nepal ... I'd be living in Nepal at the first opportunity. No one can blame Souray for that, and he has already given management a heads up by telling them to work on Markov first.

The only way either gets moved is if we're dramatically out of the playoff picture. We may yet drop further in the standings, though I doubt it, but I don't expect us to be out of the hunt.

I agree. But I also think both are gone regardless and we should test the waters to see if there is a market for either or both.

[blny]

skilly said:

Just from observation, which you can refute, I find that Higgins gets most of his goals into open nets caused by scrambles in front caused by Ryder's shot.

Ryder gets most of his from shooting from anywhere and everywhere, and getting in front of the net and tipping, deflecting, banging away.

IMO, neither is really dynamic on the line ..... Higgins is dynamic in a short-handed situation and Ryder is dynamic on the PP. Six to one, half dozen to another as far as I am concerned.

I think Higgins creates a lot on his own, and for others. As much as Ryder creates with his shot, there are a lot of times he's unable to get it off in the high slot and a turn over ensues.

skilly said:

He may be able to ... but on every lin ehe has played this year I saw him on the left side. Now that maybe because we are strong on the right side (Ryder, Johnson, Kovalev). But even on the fourth line he is playing left wing and PLeky is right wing.

I believe in junior he was a right wing .... but Higgins was a center in NCAA .... it dont mean much against the big-dogs in the NHL.

That's true, but I think there's a bigger learning curve to playing center at the NHL level than flipping from one wing to the other. I don't know what position Higgins played before Yale, and his playing center there may have been because he was the best man for the job.

skilly said:

True ... but it also is in line with go for it this year. Doan has never been on a winning team. If we get in the dance and make some noise, and he gets to witness playoff hockey in Montreal .... he will stay. Maybe hasn't seen something like that since Winnipeg.

That's possible, but in past playoffs appearances his numbers haven't really been there. Perhaps maturity and a sense of urgency cure that.

skilly said:

I fully expect Markov to jump ship. In fact, I will name two teams he will go to in a heartbeat if Montreal doesn't act quickly to sign him and show him comfort (ie .. keep a Russian flav to the team).

I expect Markov to sign with Buffalo or Washington. There are only two players in the entire NHL that the reclusive Markov calls his best friends. He is constantly talking to them on the phone, and according to one announcers, he has expressed a will to play with one of them. These friends are Maxim Aginogenov and Alexander Ovechkin. One a contender, the other a rising power .... both in relative hockey abscurity. If we are more like pretenders this year and slow to build this team I see him going and playing with one of his friends. Friendship and family are Markov main things in life ...and keeps him tied to Russia.

I tend to see it the other way. Andrei likes things a certain way. He has them that way here. He has his Russian content, he has familiarity. The media more or less respects his quiet nature and weaker verbal skills in either national language. He's rarely interviewed or in the public eye as a result. I see him reluctant to leave that.

skilly said:

And this lure is why there is no way Souray is back. I have two daughters, and trust me if they lived in Nepal ... I'd be living in Nepal at the first opportunity. No one can blame Souray for that, and he has already given management a heads up by telling them to work on Markov first.

There is one difference though. While you presumably have a job that brings you home to your children every night, that isn't necessarily the case for a hockey player. Even if Shelly signs with, say, LA. Road trips, and the greater travel strains of playing in the West, mean he'll be away from her no matter where he plays. Who's to say LA wants him? If he signs in SJ, or Anaheim, or Dallas, he's still looking at travel time. It's less, but travel just the same. He would get to see her more often, but if he can't get a deal in the same city he's going to have to weigh decreased travel time against the unknown of a new team.

skilly said:

I agree. But I also think both are gone regardless and we should test the waters to see if there is a market for either or both.

I think one will be back. Likely Markov. I do think there is a decent outside chance that both could return. There are salaries to drop that will make it possible financially at least.

[Doc Holliday]

Camalleri is one heck of a hockey talent and as so many other great players have demonstrated, size is a distant concern when a player has ton of talent, character and skating.

Don't want Doan, we have plenty of good wingers.

[Skilly]

blny said:

I tend to see it the other way. Andrei likes things a certain way. He has them that way here. He has his Russian content, he has familiarity. The media more or less respects his quiet nature and weaker verbal skills in either national language. He's rarely interviewed or in the public eye as a result. I see him reluctant to leave that.

But we crucify our Russians. He has to think his turn is coming ...

[blny]

skilly said:

blny said:

I tend to see it the other way. Andrei likes things a certain way. He has them that way here. He has his Russian content, he has familiarity. The media more or less respects his quiet nature and weaker verbal skills in either national language. He's rarely interviewed or in the public eye as a result. I see him reluctant to leave that.

But we crucify our Russians. He has to think his turn is coming ...

Since when? The only players in Montreal that get mistreated truly deserve it. I can't remember the last Russian born player that was public enemy #1. Samsonov may be on his way, but not even Malakhov was in that position. Andrei has always been a fan favorite.

[Skilly]

blny said:

skilly said:

But we crucify our Russians. He has to think his turn is coming ...

Since when? The only players in Montreal that get mistreated truly deserve it. I can't remember the last Russian born player that was public enemy #1. Samsonov may be on his way, but not even Malakhov was in that position. Andrei has always been a fan favorite.

Malakhov after the skiing incident
Have you read the Kovalev threads?
Samsonov
Valeri Bure

We do get hard on the Russians. But we also get hard on everyone else too .... I am just saying Markov does not seem the type who would be able to handle that type of "calling out" .... which is why he shies away from the media and the media shies away from him ...

[ropoflu]

skilly said:

We do get hard on the Russians.

Really?

[blny]

skilly said:

blny said:

Since when? The only players in Montreal that get mistreated truly deserve it. I can't remember the last Russian born player that was public enemy #1. Samsonov may be on his way, but not even Malakhov was in that position. Andrei has always been a fan favorite.

Malakhov after the skiing incident
Have you read the Kovalev threads?
Samsonov
Valeri Bure

We do get hard on the Russians. But we also get hard on everyone else too .... I am just saying Markov does not seem the type who would be able to handle that type of "calling out" .... which is why he shies away from the media and the media shies away from him ...

I don't think there is a lot of rational hatred for Kovalev. The others were deserving, and it has nothing to do with nationality. IMO, it shouldn't have a bearing on Markov's decision. We're not hard on Sammy cause he's Russian. We're hard on him because we expect more.

[franko]

blny said:

We're not hard on Sammy cause he's Russian. We're hard on him because we expect more.

I disagree. It's not that we expect more, it's that we expect something! [OK, something more ;D]