Briere to Montreal?

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Didn't catch Coaches Corner last night but I read elsewhere that Cherry feels Briere will be heading to Montreal in the off season.

However, I did hear during the second intermission that the Buffalo GM wants to hang onto both Drury and Briere.

Anyone catch this?

Cheers.

[jkr]

Recently I have heard both Dis.

Cherry's only reasoning is that Briere is a francophone so he will go to Montreal.

I have also heard Briere to Philly because of his frienship with Biron.

I'd be surprised if Buffalo would hang on to both because of the kind of money it would take. If they win the Cup they may be prepared to part company with one of Drury or Briere. However, if they don't make it, they may want to keep them together for another run.

[Skilly]

All the rumours I have read, even prior to Biron going there, was that Philly was going to move mountains to land one of Briere or Drury, and then maybe make a pitch for the other ... but they definitely want one.

I'd still rather Drury if it came down to get one or the other. In a perfect world, we'd get neither, and land a player like Ryan Smyth.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

skilly said:

All the rumours I have read, even prior to Biron going there, was that Philly was going to move mountains to land one of Briere or Drury, and then maybe make a pitch for the other ... but they definitely want one.

I'd still rather Drury if it came down to get one or the other. In a perfect world, we'd get neither, and land a player like Ryan Smyth.

I'm not trying to be overly gloomy on this, Skilly, but I feel it won't make a bit of difference which high profile player Gainey brings in, they'll be starting off behind the 8-ball as soon as they get here.

Montreal isn't the best of environments to be playing in these days. Seems like there's a crisis of the week even when things are going well. One journalist trying to outdo the other for the sake of garnering all the attention.

That aside, Ryan Smyth would be an awesome acquisition. Some say he's injury prone but really when you watch the way he plays you can see why. Still, he'd be a character guy, in the Gainey mold, that would be and excellent mentor to the youngsters in the system.

Cheers.

[Doc Holliday]

Briere is in the driver's seat and he'll play where he wants but IMO the HABS absolutely cannot ignore a player of that quality from their own backyard when he becomes available. That has been a problem for this organization for the last few years and I hope it gets corrected. I would be VERY unimpressed to see/hear that HABS have not tried all they can to get him.

[Doc Holliday]

disgruntled70shab said:

I'm not trying to be overly gloomy on this, Skilly, but I feel it won't make a bit of difference which high profile player Gainey brings in, they'll be starting off behind the 8-ball as soon as they get here.

Montreal isn't the best of environments to be playing in these days. Seems like there's a crisis of the week even when things are going well. One journalist trying to outdo the other for the sake of garnering all the attention.

I wouldn't worry too much about that Dis. We've seen many players come out and say Montreal is a great place to play. As well our retention rate with our UFA has been pretty good since Gainey took over. As Linden said, it all depends if you want to be in a hockeymad city or not.

[Skilly]

docholliday said:

Briere is in the driver's seat and he'll play where he wants but IMO the HABS absolutely cannot ignore a player of that quality from their own backyard when he becomes available. That has been a problem for this organization for the last few years and I hope it gets corrected. I would be VERY unimpressed to see/hear that HABS have not tried all they can to get him.

I don't think Briere is "of that quality". He is playing on a team where everyone works their butts off. In Phoenix he wasn't that good, and Montreal's turmoil and make-up is more like Phoenix's than like Buffalo's. I think Briere would flop in Montreal.

We need character players to turn that dressing-room around. It doesn't have to be Smyth, and if there is a french character player available then sure grab him.

My philosophy on winning is "just win" .... I don't care how they win or with who. Montreal's problem has always been that winning was never enough, they had to win the "Montreal" way. Time to just get the BPA's, make solid pitches for them, and not worry about where they are from.

But I agree, if two players are of equal talent, then by all means grab the local guy ... but IMO, Smyth brings more to the team than Briere.

[Polarice]

skilly said:

but IMO, Smyth brings more to the team than Briere.

I want them both!!

[Doc Holliday]

skilly said:

Montreal's problem has always been that winning was never enough, they had to win the "Montreal" way. .

We've been a mediocre team for ages and before that our most competitive editions always had a great core of local players so really I can't tell you what a winning Montreal team doing it "not the Montreal way" feels like 'cause I have yet to see it.

Briere is a quality player and while he's no Lecavalier, he's a spectacular offensive player that plays a never-quit aggravating game. He's shown he can produce without all star linemates while working within a system. IMO he'd be perfect for Montreal.

skilly said:

Time to just get the BPA's, make solid pitches for them, and not worry about where they are from.
... but IMO, Smyth brings more to the team than Briere.

BPA is a volatile and subjective notion. Everyone can factor in their own intangible notions. For me, being local plays a role in the evaluation of a player. You feel Smyth is better than Briere, I don't but not only because Briere is local, though it does play a part in my evaluation. Mind you, like Polarice says, I wouldn't mind both guys on my team anyday, heck I'd play them together.

[habmeister]

polarice said:

skilly said:

but IMO, Smyth brings more to the team than Briere.

I want them both!!

don't we all, don't we all, and at a bargain price!

[Skilly]

polarice said:

skilly said:

but IMO, Smyth brings more to the team than Briere.

I want them both!!

Both make us instant contenders .... especially if we can keep Saku doing it.

[CentreHice]

skilly said:

In a perfect world, we'd get neither, and land a player like Ryan Smyth.

Bill Watters said today that Ryan Smyth will sign with the Leafs. He almost guaranteed it.

I swear, when it comes to Toronto media, it's one of three things:

1. Every star player wants to play for the Leafs.
2. The Leafs had a "deal in the works" for every star player out there.
3. The Leafs could have drafted every star player in the league.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

skilly said:

I don't think Briere is "of that quality". He is playing on a team where everyone works their butts off. In Phoenix he wasn't that good, and Montreal's turmoil and make-up is more like Phoenix's than like Buffalo's. I think Briere would flop in Montreal.

His team also plays a firewagon style of hockey, a positive working environment and buy-in from their coach's philosophy. I think that's why their rookies do as well as the do. They see the veterans accept the system and see the results on the ice.

And, I've thought the same thing of Briere as well. It's entirely possible for him to be run out of Montreal for not being the savior, when really, it could very well be the system and the frustration of his supporting cast.

We need character players to turn that dressing-room around. It doesn't have to be Smyth, and if there is a french character player available then sure grab him.

What would I give for Doug Gilmour and Andy Moog? A younger version of Guy Carbonneau, the player, wouldn't hurt either.

My philosophy on winning is "just win" .... I don't care how they win or with who. Montreal's problem has always been that winning was never enough, they had to win the "Montreal" way. Time to just get the BPA's, make solid pitches for them, and not worry about where they are from.

IMHO, it's not as much as winning the Montreal way, as it is winning being the issue itself. The attitude was changing over the past few years until the team posted back-to-back winning seasons. Granted, we missed the playoffs but the wins were there. All The Faithful needed was a whiff and now we're back to ripping the whole organization a new arse.

But I agree, if two players are of equal talent, then by all means grab the local guy ... but IMO, Smyth brings more to the team than Briere.

I mean this sincerely when I say, if either of them don't have Gainey's character and maturity, neither one will excel in Montreal. What the Habs need is a guy in the dressingroom who can stand up, deliver the message and back it up on the ice. In NY, the Rangers had Mark Messier, who, during the last Ranger Cup victory, according to my sources, stood up to Alexei Kovalev and told him he'd beat the living crap out of him if he didn't start playing the way he could. And you know yourself, Messier could back it up.

Right now, we haven't been seeing that kind of leadership when it counts the most.

Cheers.

[jkr]

centrehice said:

skilly said:

In a perfect world, we'd get neither, and land a player like Ryan Smyth.

Bill Watters said today that Ryan Smyth will sign with the Leafs. He almost guaranteed it.

I swear, when it comes to Toronto media, it's one of three things:

1. Every star player wants to play for the Leafs.
2. The Leafs had a "deal in the works" for every star player out there.
3. The Leafs could have drafted every star player in the league.

Typical. Do Watters' predictions ever come true?

Does anyone know what the cap is next season. The Leafs already have big money tied up with Kaberle, McCabe, Kubina & probably Sundin.

[Doc Holliday]

..a few more counterpoints on that

skilly said:

In Phoenix he wasn't that good, .

...On his first complete season in Phoenix he had a 32 goals, 60 pts season. The potential was definitely there to see but his like of size was blinding the Yotes....

skilly said:

We need character players to turn that dressing-room around..

I agree but I think Briere IS a charater player.

[seventeen]

disgruntled70shab said:

What the Habs need is a guy in the dressingroom who can stand up, deliver the message and back it up on the ice. In NY, the Rangers had Mark Messier, who, during the last Ranger Cup victory, according to my sources, stood up to Alexei Kovalev and told him he'd beat the living crap out of him if he didn't start playing the way he could.
Cheers.

You mean all this time, that's all we needed to get Kovalev going? Heck, let's trade for Laracque and give him his instructions.

[Skilly]

docholliday said:

...On his first complete season in Phoenix he had a 32 goals, 60 pts season. The potential was definitely there to see but his like of size was blinding the Yotes....

The problem is that he has only ever had 3 complete seasons out of 10. Them's not good odds. He is injury prone, and they are the season ending type. Last thing we need to do is pay 6 million for a player to have a cup of coffee with us.

And let's not kid ourselves thinking Briere is a superstar. He has had only ONE season with more than 70 points. This year. Koivu has had 2 70+ seasons in the last four seasons and we are ready to sacrifice him.

I agree but I think Briere IS a charater player.

... but is he durable enough to play the way we need. Remember the Habs achilles-heel the past decade has been character and grit. The league knows the way to beat us is to forecheck hard, play us physical and watch us fold like a cheap suit. Who protects him in Montreal?

[Anardil1]

I have a bet with a co-worker concerning Briere. I say that there's no way Briere signs here. He's convinced that not only will he sign here, he really WANTS to be here. Personally, I feel that he's going to Philly. Easiest finsky I'll ever make.

[Doc Holliday]

skilly said:

The problem is that he has only ever had 3 complete seasons out of 10. Them's not good odds. He is injury prone, and they are the season ending type. Last thing we need to do is pay 6 million for a player to have a cup of coffee with us.

And let's not kid ourselves thinking Briere is a superstar. He has had only ONE season with more than 70 points. This year. Koivu has had 2 70+ seasons in the last four seasons and we are ready to sacrifice him..

I think you're distorting the facts a little Skilly. Briere only started playing regularely in 2001-2002, before that he was spending his time between the AHL and NHL. So in 2001-2002 he played 78 games (32g, 60pts), in 2002-2003 he played 82 games (24g, 58pts), he played 82 games in 2003-2004 (26g, 65pts), he played 48 games in 2005-2006 (25g, 33pts) and he played 81 games in 2006-2007 (32g, 63pts). So since being a regular for the last 5 season, he only suffered an injury once, last year and for the rest pretty much played every games of the other seasons. A case can actually be made that he's quite a solid little guy. His overall stats for that period are that of a 30 goals, 75pts guy. As I said he's no Lecavalier/Crosby but he certainly is among the very best of the group just below that, among the Jokkinen, Marleau, Richards, Sundin, etc... At 29 he's just entering his peak.

As for Koivu, as I keep saying, I do believe he's a very capable player who can deliver more than he has in all his years here. IMO though, we gave that can a lot of kicks and should turn that page.

skilly said:

... but is he durable enough to play the way we need. ?

4 healthy seasons outa 5 makes me believe that yes he can be.

skilly said:

Remember the Habs achilles-heel the past decade has been character and grit. The league knows the way to beat us is to forecheck hard, play us physical and watch us fold like a cheap suit. Who protects him in Montreal?

Who protects him in Buffalo? Briere never had the luxury of playing with thugs to protect him and yet always plays hard.

I do agree with you that we need a team with more character that won't shy away and fold but I don't think one acquisition will turn it all around. Not Briere nor Smyth but both these guys (together or independently) is a step in the right direction.

[Doc Holliday]

anardil1 said:

I have a bet with a co-worker concerning Briere. I say that there's no way Briere signs here. He's convinced that not only will he sign here, he really WANTS to be here. Personally, I feel that he's going to Philly. Easiest finsky I'll ever make.

You could certainly could win that bet, but 2 things to consider:

a) wives often have a say and coming back to Montreal among her friends and family could certainly be appealing for Mrs Briere...

b) back in his Phoenix days, Briere really wanted to be a HABs.

IMO if Gainey/Boivin pull the same level of efforts in getting Briere that they did for getting Shanahan, they'll win him.

[Boston_Habs]

I agree. The Habs need to put the full court press on Briere and make it clear that he is the #1 priority. Problem is in these situations it helps for the players to call Briere and let him know that things are just great in Montreal and Briere will be sooooo happy to play here.

So who's going to put in the call to Briere?: Saku "get me the heck out of here" Koivu, or perhaps Alexei "I play when I feel like it" Kovalev, maybe Michael "I'm underappreciated" Ryder. On second thought, they might as well get Jean Beliveau or Guy Lafleur to woo Briere - guys that actually liked playing in Montreal.

[Doc Holliday]

bostonhabs said:

On second thought, they might as well get Jean Beliveau or Guy Lafleur to woo Briere - guys that actually liked playing in Montreal.

It's the Great Seduction. You get him here, make him visit the impressive Bell center, make him visit the dressing room that oozes pride and history that he knows about and have admired and deamt about as a kid. Make him shake hands with Lafleur and Beliveau... You need to play the Bleu-Blanc-Rouge card full throttle.

You are right, forget about selling him the current team, nobody will want to come here for that... You need to sell the past and the future.

[Skilly]

docholliday said:

I think you're distorting the facts a little Skilly. Briere only started playing regularely in 2001-2002, before that he was spending his time between the AHL and NHL. So in 2001-2002 he played 78 games (32g, 60pts), in 2002-2003 he played 82 games (24g, 58pts), he played 82 games in 2003-2004 (26g, 65pts), he played 48 games in 2005-2006 (25g, 33pts) and he played 81 games in 2006-2007 (32g, 63pts). So since being a regular for the last 5 season, he only suffered an injury once, last year and for the rest pretty much played every games of the other seasons. A case can actually be made that he's quite a solid little guy. His overall stats for that period are that of a 30 goals, 75pts guy. As I said he's no Lecavalier/Crosby but he certainly is among the very best of the group just below that, among the Jokkinen, Marleau, Richards, Sundin, etc... At 29 he's just entering his peak.

I am not trying to distort the facts.

You said "in his first fuill season". So I went checking and that first full season you were speaking of was his fifth in the NHL.

In 2005-06, he was injured three different times with an abdominal injury.

I did miss the year he was traded .. I forgot to add the numbers from Phoenix ...

However ....

In 2005-06 he only played 48 games
In 2000-01 he only played 30 games
In 1999-00 he only played 13 games (and spent alot of time in the AHL)
In 1998-99 he only played 64 games.

So he has 4 complete seasons and 4 where he missed 20+ games (neglecting his first year where he played 5 games). That's 50% in the versatility/injury prone department.

I count the 13 game season because he played 64 the year before .... so he took a major step back in development back then and sure he is on the upswing .... but we can say the same thing about Saku who was always injured but now has played most of the games in three of the last four years.

[BadCompany]

I fear that Briere is about to become our new Lecavalier. That is, the hoped-for saviour that we all “know” wants to come here, is just biding his time, is just waiting, come-on Bob make the offer, he’s going to make everything all right.

While it’s true that Briere is a native son, and he even still listens to, and calls in local radio stations, I’m not certain that he’s all that hot and bothered to come play here. Money wise, he’s already making $5 million in Buffalo, so any offer to him will have to be in the $7 to $8 million range, just to even begin to put pressure on Buffalo’s ability to resign him themselves. And that’s not factoring in any tax differences.

What about Briere’s loyalty to Buffalo? They pretty much resurrected his career, they’ve given him big bucks when everyone said he was too small and too injury prone, and they are a great, Stanley Cup contending team. Which, by the way, he is captain of. He’s been there for four years now, he’s well entrenched on both the team and the community.

And what about his family? Briere has three kids, 8, 7 and 5 years old (Caelon, Cameron and Carson). They’ve all started school, in English. They would have to switch to French schools if they were to come back here. Is that something he wants to inflict on them? Briere hasn’t lived in Quebec in over ten years, and from the names of his kids, I’m not even sure they speak French. They certainly don’t live it day-to-day.

What about the Montreal Canadiens themselves? Briere, as I mentioned, still listens to Montreal radio, and since it’s his profession, I’m sure he knows the Habs very well. He can see as well as anybody else the mess the team is in, the mess the team could potentially be in next year, and he knows just as well as everybody else that he’s going to be regarded as the “savior.” He also comes from the Buffalo, four-lines of fury system, so he’s not going to be comfortable coming to a team where he is the show, and him alone. Does he want, or need that pressure? He knows what the media is like, he knows the team could be in tough just to make the playoffs next year, he knows he will be the fall guy if they don’t.

In short, we’re asking him to give up on the team that made him, to go from a Stanley Cup contender to a team that missed the playoffs, from a group system to a system where he will be expected, no, demanded to be the one guy, to go to a higher tax system even though the money is the same, and to uproot his family and stick them in schools where they may not even know the language. Why would he do this?

[Boston_Habs]

Way to throw the cold water, BC.

As I alluded in my post above I think it's a tough time to woo prospective UFAs - the team is coming off a disappointing finish, the supposed leaders are sulking (Koivu, Kovy) or demanding to be traded, and we have two huge UFAs in Markov and Souray that could walk at any time. Not exactly the right time to be selling a player on coming to Montreal. Last year we were coming off the loss to Carolina in which we played hard but lost our captain at the wrong time - there was at least some sense of woulda, coulda and the team appeared to be on the rise. This year is totally different and we are now in a position of begging Briere to ignore all the things you pointed out and sign here anyway.

[Doc Holliday]

Goodness I have to battle Skilly AND BC...

badcompany said:

I fear that Briere is about to become our new Lecavalier. That is, the hoped-for saviour that we all “know” wants to come here, is just biding his time, is just waiting, come-on Bob make the offer, he’s going to make everything all right.

Replace Briere and Lecavalier's name if you will by Kovalchuck and Smyth. Do you think the city would expect any less from these guys because they're not from here? Of course not. Any high profile players that will arrive here will have high expectations. Samsonov and Kovalev didn't get any less pressure here last year because they were not from Montreal ( and heck haven't they complained all year that the organization and fans have a favorable bias towards local guys... this should appeal to the locals no?). And that is not just in Monteal. Briere would get as much pressure if he signs with NYR, Toronto, Detroit or any hockey crazed cities. Say if the Sabres give Briere 7mil and because of that can't sign Drury, do you think the fans over there will allow Briere not to be the superstar he's suppose to be...

badcompany said:

While it’s true that Briere is a native son, and he even still listens to, and calls in local radio stations, I’m not certain that he’s all that hot and bothered to come play here. Money wise, he’s already making $5 million in Buffalo, so any offer to him will have to be in the $7 to $8 million range, just to even begin to put pressure on Buffalo’s ability to resign him themselves. And that’s not factoring in any tax differences.

As Linden said, if it's money you're after, you can find it. Briere will not sign here if he's looking for the best possible money scenario. and he won't be in Buffallo either.

badcompany said:

What about Briere’s loyalty to Buffalo? They pretty much resurrected his career, they’ve given him big bucks when everyone said he was too small and too injury prone, and they are a great, Stanley Cup contending team. Which, by the way, he is captain of. He’s been there for four years now, he’s well entrenched on both the team and the community. .

Buffalo is also the team that tried to low ball him last year and took him to arbitration, got rid of his 2 best friends on the team (after aggravating both) and didn't extend any contract offer to him this year. Ruff benched him on game 1 of the Eastern final (the same Ruff who sent Afinogenov to the press box during round 2). Will the Sabres even try to run after both their rabbits? I just don't see the Sabres spending 6-7mil on 2 centers (especially with a healthy Connolly around) and I am far from certain that they'd take Briere over Drury...

badcompany said:

And what about his family? Briere has three kids, 8, 7 and 5 years old (Caelon, Cameron and Carson). They’ve all started school, in English. They would have to switch to French schools if they were to come back here. Is that something he wants to inflict on them? Briere hasn’t lived in Quebec in over ten years, and from the names of his kids, I’m not even sure they speak French. They certainly don’t live it day-to-day.

With both parent being French, I strongly doubt that the kids are unilingual Anglophones... It can easily be seen the other way like he's bringing everyone back home...

badcompany said:

What about the Montreal Canadiens themselves? Briere, as I mentioned, still listens to Montreal radio, and since it’s his profession, I’m sure he knows the Habs very well. He can see as well as anybody else the mess the team is in, the mess the team could potentially be in next year, and he knows just as well as everybody else that he’s going to be regarded as the “savior.” He also comes from the Buffalo, four-lines of fury system, so he’s not going to be comfortable coming to a team where he is the show, and him alone. Does he want, or need that pressure? He knows what the media is like, he knows the team could be in tough just to make the playoffs next year, he knows he will be the fall guy if they don’t.

Briere has been a star at every level he's played and worked his butts off to establish himself as a top player in the NHL (despite the odds and the critics). Being the go-to guy is not something new to him, it's something he always worked at.

badcompany said:

Why would he do this?

You bring in all the arguments why he would not.

But.

Ask a Montreal kid: How would you like to be the cornerstone in the return to glory of the Montreal Canadiens? How would you like to hold the cup in the Bell Center? It's not for everyone and it scared away Vinny at a time when it was within his reach. Is Briere up to it? Seem to me that he's a guy with the kind of character to overcome odds, critics and rise. Seems to me he's got the thick skin and testicular fortitude to play and perform here.

[habmeister]

i think this is the off-season where bob starts adding some pieces with last names ending with ere, laparriere, briere, and any french player that wants to play here. heck bring back perrault if he's an ufa. the quebecois players we had this season all worked hard and did their best, they're accountable much more than the flaky euros, er russians.

i think once a few quebecers sign with the habs for a hometown deal others may follow and voila, the dynasty is back!

[Skilly]

habmeister said:

i think this is the off-season where bob starts adding some pieces with last names ending with ere, laparriere, briere,

And let's not forget Rydiere. ;D

Btw, Laparriere is under contract with Colorado. I believe the Avs have an option on him for next season.

[Skilly]

docholliday said:

and I am far from certain that they'd take Briere over Drury...

I am pretty certain they will sign Drury first and then see how low they can get Briere for. And all for the same reasons that many want Briere in Montreal. Local kid (American), marketable, class-act, quiet leader but leaves it on the ice, .....

I won't be disappointed if we get Briere, I just think that he won't be the same player people are seeing in Buffalo, and we will need to get more than him .... but it will be nice to have 2 centers once again.

[franko]

skilly said:

docholliday said:

and I am far from certain that they'd take Briere over Drury...

I am pretty certain they will sign Drury first and then see how low they can get Briere for. And all for the same reasons that many want Briere in Montreal. Local kid (American), marketable, class-act, quiet leader but leaves it on the ice, .....

I won't be disappointed if we get Briere, I just think that he won't be the same player people are seeing in Buffalo, and we will need to get more than him .... but it will be nice to have 2 centers once again.

Briere will only be useful if he can find his way back to the rink.