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Post by jimmyjazz on May 22, 2007 13:55:41 GMT -5
You might be right about Smyth, Doc. However, I think any proven player coming into Montreal will have that tag. I agree DIS. I was merely pointing out to Skilly that if he felt Briere's good season should be a deterant than so should Smyth's and all other free agents who very often do have great years on their UFA years. Frankly, IMO, either player would help, especially in the leadership/character department, but IMO what we need is uprades on center and defense, not on the wing. I definitely see Higgins getting similar numbers to Smyth next year but I certainly don't see Plekanec getting a 90pts season. As for Briere, while his #1 choice is Buffallo, I wonder if he's Buffallo's #1 choice...
True, and I wonder what type of discount he's willing to give them... A Brodeur-type discount or a 275k/year discount? And I also agree about your point on Smyth. I like the guy, but IMO he's overrated by many people, and no way would I pay what's he's going to get for him. As for the leadership, I believe more and more that Gainey will try to let guys like Higgins and Komisarek take more space in the room, which they've already started to do. |
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Post by BadCompany on May 22, 2007 14:14:46 GMT -5
Well, if we want to be precise in the semantics, the article implies that Briere will take less than market value to stay in Buffalo. To me this says he has no intention of taking any paycuts, but would stay in Buffalo for less than the $6-7 million he would likely command on the open market, from a team like Philadelphia. In my opinion, the absolute minimum he would take from Buffalo would be $5 million, or what he made this year.
If my assessment is true, then start at $6 million, if you want Briere in Montreal. Buffalo (I think) would match a $5 million offer, and Briere isn't going to quit Buffalo to come to Montreal for the same salary offer. Maybe if they had won the Cup but not now...
So the question is then, do we want to pay Briere $6 million + ? That's the "home town discount" we're looking at, in my opinion. And that's assuming Buffalo decides they aren't even going to offer him a contract...
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Post by jkr on May 22, 2007 14:51:19 GMT -5
from TSN: "My first, my probably biggest wish right now would be to be a part of this team," Briere said. "The Sabres, if they're interested, they're going to have the first chance. They're going to have the best chance. And if that doesn't work out, then we'll start looking at different options."
Briere, coming off a career season, said he'd be willing to sign for less than what he might be worth on the open market to stay in Buffalo.--the complete article--one more thing I found interesting: Both Drury and Briere have expressed disappointment regarding the Sabres' policy of not negotiating contracts during the season. Drury was open to negotiations in January.I guess Bob is not the only one... R. Lamoriello is the same way. He has Rafalski & Gomez to deal with now. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 22, 2007 15:23:02 GMT -5
He could. On his last 2 seasons Briere got his points without the luxury of star linesmates playing within a rigid system. He'd be in a similar setup in Montreal (with arguably more proven linesmates if he would play with Kovalev or Ryder or Higgins). There is nothing to suggest his production would go down, if anything he could get a 100 points if he clicked well with one of our top 4 wingers. Good Lord, he couldn't even do it on the best team in the league, how's he gonna do it on our Habs? With the "defence" THIS team will ice for the '07 - '08 campaign, Gretzky and Lemieux in their respective prime years would struggle to crack 100 pts. I'd LOVE to see Briere on our squad and score 100 pts, but I fear it impossible...the ESSENTIAL support from the rear-guard isn't and won't be there to facilitate those kinds of offensive numbers. CO Frankly I am not as convinced as you that our dmen is what is holding our offense back. I'm even of the opinion that our offensive players are a great part why our D look so terrible at times. In other words our transition system sucks and I'm sure you'll agree that it goes beyond making a pass on the tape, which, at the NHL level is something every dmen can do. It has to do with offering options and puck support to the puck carrier and that is what we are so bad at IMO. I don't know how many times I've seen a HABS dmen or even a forward gaining possession in his zone only to see in front of him a) the back of all his teammates flocking away or b) player stopped, drilled on the ice... Heck, even Markov has problem getting out of his zone here... We have no flow in our zone, no passing lanes, we just push the puck up and hope for the best. Centers are very often key to the transition game whether through their puck carrying skills or great vision and so I'm back at wanting a quality centermen for this team. Buffalo's defense is not all that impressive compared to ours but their centerline completely blows us off the water... and more. |
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Post by Marvin on May 22, 2007 17:17:54 GMT -5
In the words of the Eagles, Briere will come to Mtl when "hell freezes over."
Marv
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Post by Skilly on May 23, 2007 6:16:55 GMT -5
In the words of the Eagles, Briere will come to Mtl when "hell freezes over." Marv Philadelphia ... hummmppffff  I'm a Cowboys fan, ergo, I hate anything to do with the Eagles.  (The Bears were better singers anyways - Superbowl Shuffle). |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 23, 2007 7:34:36 GMT -5
Frankly I am not as convinced as you that our dmen is what is holding our offense back. I'm even of the opinion that our offensive players are a great part why our D look so terrible at times. In other words our transition system sucks and I'm sure you'll agree that it goes beyond making a pass on the tape, which, at the NHL level is something every dmen can do. It has to do with offering options and puck support to the puck carrier and that is what we are so bad at IMO. I don't know how many times I've seen a HABS dmen or even a forward gaining possession in his zone only to see in front of him a) the back of all his teammates flocking away or b) player stopped, drilled on the ice... Heck, even Markov has problem getting out of his zone here... We have no flow in our zone, no passing lanes, we just push the puck up and hope for the best. Centers are very often key to the transition game whether through their puck carrying skills or great vision and so I'm back at wanting a quality centermen for this team. Buffalo's defense is not all that impressive compared to ours but their centerline completely blows us off the water... and more. One of the most memorable goals I can recall this season started with a crisp breakout pass from Komisarek to an in-flight Plekanec, who tipped it to his winger; who was also in full-flight. The two of them went to the net with Pleks finishing off the play with a goal. I remember the way that goal developed and was scored. I also remember the little on-ice celebration and the huge smiles on Komisarek, Pleks and the the rest in that huddle. And the reason I remember it is because I hadn't seen a better goal from a Habs unit all season long. It reminded me of ... the Senators. For the most part our game is to dump the puck out of the defensive zone and hope our forwards pick it up so they can dump it into the opposition zone. Once we have the puck we're very hard to knock off it. However, getting the puck out of the defensive zone and retaining it in the offensive zone, has been a task for this team all year long. They play a defensive system, granted. But, I got the impression this club was still trying to find that system even in the late part of the season. But, make no mistake; Briere may have had a career year point-wise, but if he comes to Montreal he'll have to comply to that system, as confusing as it is. Mind you, if he ends up in Montreal and accumulates 70/75 points in a system like that, there will be a lot of fans who will think that this will be a failure. Yet, like you cite, an excellent transition game will probably negate a system like that. And that game starts at the blueline, out. Cheers. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 23, 2007 8:00:32 GMT -5
Mind you, if he ends up in Montreal and accumulates 70/75 points in a system like that, there will be a lot of fans who will think that this will be a failure. I think it ultimately all depends on the effort and results more than in points accumulated. If Briere gets 70/75 points but takes 2 months off during the season and we miss the playoffs, the fans won't and shouldn't be happy IMO. In regards to the system, I wonder if the problem is the absence of it or if it is that certain player don't buy into it and play their way regardless of what coaching says... I remember 2 seasons ago, the team was completely disorganized and playing poorly under Julien/Green. Gainey took over and almost immediately everything started to have a flow. Is it that Gainey is such a coaching genius or that the players were buying into him? A little of both? |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 23, 2007 9:22:10 GMT -5
Mind you, if he ends up in Montreal and accumulates 70/75 points in a system like that, there will be a lot of fans who will think that this will be a failure. I think it ultimately all depends on the effort and results more than in points accumulated. If Briere gets 70/75 points but takes 2 months off during the season and we miss the playoffs, the fans won't and shouldn't be happy IMO. In regards to the system, I wonder if the problem is the absence of it or if it is that certain player don't buy into it and play their way regardless of what coaching says... Well, this is the thing, Doc. The team meltdown not withstanding, I can't recall Koivu playing as tight a defensive game as he did last year. On the other side of the coin, there were players who did play that system, but whined about it later. Gainey is a well-rounded hockey man. As an outsider looking in, I don't think Gainey was a genius as a coach. However, I do think he understands people, which is where a lot of coaches fail. It's one thing to kick some butt, but knowing when to do it and how to do it properly are entirely different matters. Gainey not only understands people but never flys off the handle. And when he does it takes a lot. But, Gainey also knows how to promote their welfare. How many times has he gone public in support of a player? Following a guy like that is a tough act for any coach to follow. Just ask Carbonneau. But, if he's sincere in his comments to communicate more openly with his players, I think we'll see a better product on the ice this year. At the very least we should see those team dinners filled again instead of everyone going to their cliques. And I think that will be a good starting point to landing any UFA, including Briere. The environment counts for quite a bit. Cheers. |
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Post by Skilly on May 23, 2007 9:32:08 GMT -5
In regards to the system, I wonder if the problem is the absence of it or if it is that certain player don't buy into it and play their way regardless of what coaching says... Any system where over 75% of the roster has their worst year in regards to +/- needs to be re-evaluated. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 23, 2007 9:42:03 GMT -5
Mind you, if he ends up in Montreal and accumulates 70/75 points in a system like that, there will be a lot of fans who will think that this will be a failure. I think it ultimately all depends on the effort and results more than in points accumulated. If Briere gets 70/75 points but takes 2 months off during the season and we miss the playoffs, the fans won't and shouldn't be happy IMO. I don't know Doc. I was thinking this over and like we were discussing earlier, I honestly believe that if Briere is signed he's going to be viewed as the Saviour-elect. If he doesn't live up to that billing he might be grilled by the Montreal media regardless what system Carbonneau uses. I could be wrong, but when the Habs aren't winning there seems to be a prioritized list of scapegoats and Briere and Koivu would be on the top. Cheers. |
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Post by clear observer on May 23, 2007 9:48:25 GMT -5
Markov we just have to sign. I’m not even going to contemplate a scenario where he doesn’t resign, because that would be disastrous, no matter how they try to spin it. Souray walks. That means our blueline would like this: Markov – Komisarek Bouillon – Gorges Rookie – Dandenault (Rookie) That’s a brutal blueline, especially when the injuries hit. With Toe Blake, Scotty Bowman, Dick Irvin Sr., Punch Imlach and Jesus of Nazareth behind the bench, there isn't a chance on God's green earth that Daniel Briere will score 100 pts as a Hab. Not with THAT blue-line we see in BC's above post. You can have a flawless system in place with EVERYONE giving their all, if the talent-base ain't there, it simply isn't gonna be good enough. Sorry folks, our blue-line stunk last season, and it's not looking any prettier come Fall. Most offence is generated from the rear....always has, always will. CO p.s. we need d-men |
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Post by Polarice on May 23, 2007 10:19:07 GMT -5
Agreed, however, there's not that many out there. If we can keep Markov and Souray who'd you make a pitch for? Here's a list I'd be interested in. Mathieu Schneider, Greg de Vries, Teppo Numminen, Roman Hamrlik, Darryl Sydor, Kimmo Timonen, Brian Rafalski, Tom Poti, Brent Sopel. I would like to grab at least two guys from that list. |
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Post by HFTO on May 23, 2007 11:13:40 GMT -5
If we lose Souray in the short term I get Schnieder and try hard for Scott Hanan(hopefully Rivet hasn't poisoned his thought process about playing in Montreal)
HFTO
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Post by habmeister on May 23, 2007 12:23:05 GMT -5
If we lose Souray in the short term I get Schnieder and try hard for Scott Hanan(hopefully Rivet hasn't poisoned his thought process about playing in Montreal) HFTO i 100% agree, i would have the same two players on my radar. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jun 3, 2007 10:56:01 GMT -5
when the Habs aren't winning there seems to be a prioritized list of scapegoats and Briere and Koivu would be on the top. . ...and in a way they should Dis. Your best players will be the target of fan's praises when it goes well and fan's criticisms when it doesn't. Comes with the tilttle and the big contract. Before he won anything Yzerman was regularely criticized in Detroit and Alfredsson is at the middle of trade rumors every summer. Heck, Jean Beliveau once made the front page of LaPresse way back then, with the headline "...HABS captain need a heart transplant..." because people felt he was not worthy of being a HABS when compared to Rocket Richard... Lafleur, Roy, Robinson, Savard all go booed in the Forum. Gotta take the good and the bad and as I said, Briere strike me as a player with quite a thick skin... *** In a recent interview on RDS, Pat Brisson (Briere's agent) said that the Briere clan has recevied no offer yet from the Sabres. He said that he hasn't been contacted by the Sabres since last summer and that with just a month left leading to July first, many signs point that Daniel will be a UFA. With the way he is being treated, it's hard to immagine that Briere is indeed a priority in Buffalo. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed we have a shot at him, that would really make my day. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 3, 2007 14:17:29 GMT -5
when the Habs aren't winning there seems to be a prioritized list of scapegoats and Briere and Koivu would be on the top. . ...and in a way they should Dis. Your best players will be the target of fan's praises when it goes well and fan's criticisms when it doesn't. Comes with the tilttle and the big contract. Before he won anything Yzerman was regularely criticized in Detroit and Alfredsson is at the middle of trade rumors every summer. Heck, Jean Beliveau once made the front page of LaPresse way back then, with the headline "...HABS captain need a heart transplant..." because people felt he was not worthy of being a HABS when compared to Rocket Richard... Lafleur, Roy, Robinson, Savard all go booed in the Forum. Gotta take the good and the bad and as I said, Briere strike me as a player with quite a thick skin... *** In a recent interview on RDS, Pat Brisson (Briere's agent) said that the Briere clan has recevied no offer yet from the Sabres. He said that he hasn't been contacted by the Sabres since last summer and that with just a month left leading to July first, many signs point that Daniel will be a UFA. With the way he is being treated, it's hard to immagine that Briere is indeed a priority in Buffalo. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed we have a shot at him, that would really make my day. Heard during the second intermission that one analyst heard there was no way Drury would be re-signing with the Sabres. Some team somewhere will overpay him to secure his services. If this is true it might be that the Sabres will sweeten whatever offer they might have had for Briere. On the Habs side of things, the skinny is that while the two camps are still talking, Souray will be bolting to the Bay area. If this is true then Gainey has some serious cash to throw in Briere's direction. But, I wouldn't know how to do the numbers. Cheers. |
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Post by Skilly on Jun 3, 2007 15:14:06 GMT -5
I'd like to see Gainey sign/make offers for his RFAs prior to the arbitration filing date for once .... then we will know how much we have for the shopping spree.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jun 4, 2007 13:34:33 GMT -5
I'd like to see Gainey sign/make offers for his RFAs prior to the arbitration filing date for once .... then we will know how much we have for the shopping spree. ...one can decide to look at it the other way. Fetch the players you need to update your team than you'll know how much you have left for the guys that can't go anywhere. |
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Post by habmeister on Jun 4, 2007 13:43:22 GMT -5
I'd like to see Gainey sign/make offers for his RFAs prior to the arbitration filing date for once .... then we will know how much we have for the shopping spree. ...one can decide to look at it the other way. Fetch the players you need to update your team than you'll know how much you have left for the guys that can't go anywhere. that's what i was thinking, sign the ufa's first, keeping in mind of course what you'll need for your rfa's. then when it comes time to negotiate with the rfa's you can use the "well we can't possibly give you that much as we only have $X of cap room left, and we still have to sign higgins/ryder..." i'd rather be using my cap room on ufa's right now and rfa's get what is left, within reason of course, and you don't have to screw your rfa's, just keep in the kitty what you want to sign them for plus 10% or so. it takes away most of their bargaining power. |
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Post by Skilly on Jun 4, 2007 15:41:23 GMT -5
I'd like to see Gainey sign/make offers for his RFAs prior to the arbitration filing date for once .... then we will know how much we have for the shopping spree. ...one can decide to look at it the other way. Fetch the players you need to update your team than you'll know how much you have left for the guys that can't go anywhere. It is a dangerous slope. If he waits too long, like he did in previous years, he'll force some of the RFAs to file for arbitration. If they don't file for arbitration and it goes past the arbitration filing date, then Gainey could (not that he would) offer them just the qualifying offer and they'd have to accept or not play. So players like Plekanec and Ryder who had reasonable years stats-wise will file if Gainey waits too long, maybe even Higgins. Then it is either "our offer or their offer scenario" (the arbitrator can't pick a salary anymore I dont think). In the hands of the arbitrator and you are looking at possibly more money than if you dealt with them now. By negotiating now, and giving the guys who have shown they want to play here some respect and appreciation .... well then you might get that home town discount. But hey, lets go after the guys that are blowing smoke saying they "like the possibility of playing here" ....and screw the kids that want to play here.... sounds like reasonable business strategy to me.  |
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Post by HabSolute on Jun 5, 2007 10:28:10 GMT -5
Again, from Eklund:.... www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=7894First off, Briere is NOT going to Montreal I am told. Wants no part of it. The teams that Have the best shots at Briere currently are San Jose, Florida, Buffalo, Vancouver and Toronto. Many people are saying Philly, and I wouldn't even ask Paul this, but I don't think that Briere fits into the plan.
That does not mean that Montreal isn't up to something, because three teams, Toronto, Edmonton, and Montreal, are all looking runnerish leaning off the first base bag.
The Oilers need a D-man badly to stabilize that D. They are looking at many options I am told including one of the current Sens guys, Souray, and Timonen. However...I believe the Sens guy is more likely their target, but of course the Sens are still playing, so we won't go there.
There were three people who told me last night that Gainey has been whispering under his breath at the AMAZING run that Price is on for Hamilton in the AHL finals words to the effect of. "If he keeps playing this well, he will be here and he will be the guy." So that opens up all sorts of trade rumours about Huet of course, and the latest involves the Phoenix Coyotes and Derek Morris going back to the Habs. Maloney had perhaps the most interesting scrum yesterday in his new role in Phoenix. He flat out said I need a goalie, but beyond that we are going with young kids and trying to just win ten game segments. We will NOT be active in the free agent market, so don't expect us to be...With have young talent and we are going to let them play for us. We are in a great and unique spot.I know most people think this guy is a fraud, but I have to admit, it's entertaining to read his column; He does seem to have some good connections. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jun 5, 2007 11:49:16 GMT -5
it's entertaining to read his column. yep. He sure can fill these non-hockey summer months. To comment on his latest rumor, I'd like Derek Morris on the team if it can be done. Way more solid in his own end than Souray. Letting Halak and Price battle is out for the #1 spot could be interesting. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 5, 2007 12:44:36 GMT -5
Again, from Eklund:.... www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=7894First off, Briere is NOT going to Montreal I am told. Wants no part of it. The teams that Have the best shots at Briere currently are San Jose, Florida, Buffalo, Vancouver and Toronto. Many people are saying Philly, and I wouldn't even ask Paul this, but I don't think that Briere fits into the plan.
That does not mean that Montreal isn't up to something, because three teams, Toronto, Edmonton, and Montreal, are all looking runnerish leaning off the first base bag.
The Oilers need a D-man badly to stabilize that D. They are looking at many options I am told including one of the current Sens guys, Souray, and Timonen. However...I believe the Sens guy is more likely their target, but of course the Sens are still playing, so we won't go there.
There were three people who told me last night that Gainey has been whispering under his breath at the AMAZING run that Price is on for Hamilton in the AHL finals words to the effect of. "If he keeps playing this well, he will be here and he will be the guy." So that opens up all sorts of trade rumours about Huet of course, and the latest involves the Phoenix Coyotes and Derek Morris going back to the Habs. Maloney had perhaps the most interesting scrum yesterday in his new role in Phoenix. He flat out said I need a goalie, but beyond that we are going with young kids and trying to just win ten game segments. We will NOT be active in the free agent market, so don't expect us to be...With have young talent and we are going to let them play for us. We are in a great and unique spot.I know most people think this guy is a fraud, but I have to admit, it's entertaining to read his column; He does seem to have some good connections. I know where he got his Briere comments from; Ron Fournier ( CKAC ) a few days ago. At least this is where my buddy in St. Jean heard it. It's only me but I believe that Eklund was first noticed solely on his Internet handle. Now, he has a mailing list and was brought in by TSN for the trade deadline, though I believe the latter to be a ratings move. I have time for any self-made personality. But there are exceptions, especially when his ramblings remind me of Bruce Garrioch. Really there's no difference between him and any one of us who say, "... according to my sources ..." And there are a few of us here on the board who have a "source" here and there. Cheers. |
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Post by Skilly on Jun 5, 2007 12:51:08 GMT -5
and was brought in by TSN for the trade deadline, though I believe the latter to be a ratings move. He was on Sportsnet's trade deadline show .... This Derek Morris rumour is three years in the making now .... it will soon be on par with the Selanne to Montreal rumours that have been out there every year for about 5 years now. My "sources" have been real quiet this off-season ..... bummer |
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Post by Marvin on Jun 5, 2007 16:59:56 GMT -5
I watched Derek Morris for 3 years here in Cgy. Believe me, if you think Souray is error-prone, Morris will put Souray to shame. You DON'T want Morris!
Marv
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Post by HABSLAND on Jun 5, 2007 18:08:00 GMT -5
I don't want to get too excited like we usually do here in Mtl, but I am for Price to be part of the team next year. I know its the NHL, but lets say he wins the Cup in Hamilton, I don't think keeping him there all year next year is gonna do as much good to him as having a chance to win a spot against lets say Halak. As for Briere, I like him but I am not ready to dish out lets say 24 or even 30 mil for him on a 4-5 year contract. I can't wait for the draft, I have had a feeling for a while that the Habs will take center stage and announce a trade, I don't know why but Minnesota would be the team if I had to bet. I will probably lose my bet, but its a feeling I have.
If we have to trade Huet, hes got a year left on a contract, never played a full season, I think Morris would be the caliber of player we could fetch for Christo.
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Post by Rimmer on Jun 6, 2007 2:46:41 GMT -5
as Dis already suggested, I'd rather have Boynton than Morris if a deal is made with Phoenix.
btw, I always considered Phoenix as a team that might be willing to take a flyer on Samsonov. they need 3-4 top 2 line players and Samsonov is still young with only 1 year left on his contract and could be had for a low pick.
R.
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Post by ropoflu on Jun 6, 2007 11:11:21 GMT -5
... Samsonov is still young with only 1 year left on his contract and could be had given for along with a low pick. |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 8, 2007 20:34:36 GMT -5
Precisely. The man has negative value, so any trade is going to involve more thrown in just to have him taken off our hands.
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I'm a Cowboys fan, ergo, I hate anything to do with the Eagles. 
