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Post by Doc Holliday on May 22, 2007 8:30:51 GMT -5
According to Larry Brooks, Richards and his (ahem!) 7.8mil contract could be available (pending he waives his NTC).
Great playmaking, sound 2-way game, good wheels, some leadership qualities, still young, signed for many years...
He's terribly expensive but can he be the franchise center we've been looking for? Personally I think so. Getting 70pts with the linemates he had last year was an astonishing performance. If it can be done Bob would have quite a player on his hand.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 22, 2007 8:42:10 GMT -5
Love to have him but that salary would kill a lot of options Gainey has, Doc. Making room on the roster for that kind of salary.
Yet, the Habs do have what TB is looking for; goaltending. Could they be inticed with Yan Danis or would Halak be in the mix somewhere? If it's Danis more assets go the other way in the deal. If it's Halak then it might be a tad less.
I don't know though. I respect what Richards brings to the rink but I just don't think he's worth that pricetag. Moreso when you think of how much coin is tied up with guys like Kovalev, Samsonov and Koivu. It might lessen the financial constraints if Samsonov would go the other way but Richards is still a tad too expensive for what the return is IMHO.
Cheers.
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Post by Polarice on May 22, 2007 8:59:06 GMT -5
I'd love to have him, but we'd have to send someone's salary the other way.
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 22, 2007 9:05:17 GMT -5
I agree that he is overpaid DIS, but by how much? I looked at it this way: say the price tag for a guy of his caliber is 6.5mil, than really the option you're truly cuting is 1.3mil worth of salary which you have to recuperate on the remaining 22 guys... Not that much...
Definitely Kovalev would have to go the other way though. Personnaly I'd try Kovalev/Plekanec for Richards.
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Post by Rimmer on May 22, 2007 10:06:12 GMT -5
Tampa Bay recently re-signed their goalie, Johan Holmqvist. they also have Denis with a big contract so I doubt they'd be looking for a goalie, other than maybe prospects (Halak, Price).
if they move Richards, they'll probably want to get 2-3 players for their 2nd line. Plekanec and Kovalev would be a good start from the Habs point of view, but IMO they would prefer Ryder over Kovalev.
but anyway, where would that leave the Habs? who would Richards, or Koivu, play with on the 2nd line (assuming Higgins and Ryder play on the 1st)? Lats and Kastsitsyn? even in that case the lower lines would look awfully thin, without anyone ready to move to the first 2 lines if needed, other than, perhaps, Grabovsky. and you can probably forget about re-signing both Markov and Souray or signing someone of their value to replace them.
R.
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Post by Skilly on May 22, 2007 11:05:04 GMT -5
I think it could be possible if they take Samsonov off our hands, and our RFAs take a little less money (and that's going to be the biggy). Another option would be the ol "sign and trade" Souray along with Samsonov.
Lats-Koivu-Kovalev (10.1 million)
Higgins-Richards-Ryder (12.3 million) - assuming Higgins @1.5 and Ryder @ 3 million.
So by loading up our top two lines we will have to go el-cheapo on the bottom two lines.
Begin-Pleky-Johnson (4.1 million) - assuming Johnson at 2 million and Pleky at 1 million
Lapierre-Chipchura-Kostitsyn (2 million)
So that is 26.5 million on our forwards.
We have 2.875 on Huet for next year, and might as well add $850,000 for Price ... thats another 3.7 million.
So now we are up to 30.2 million.
We have 4.2 million locked up on 3 defensemen next year .... so by my math we have 14 million to sign 4 other defensemen.
Edit: ... If Komisarek takes 2 million, we could conceivably sign Markov and Souray for 5 million each, and sign Gorges or Cote for just under 1 million and still be under the cap.
And no buy-outs to boot!!!
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Post by habmeister on May 22, 2007 12:12:44 GMT -5
I think it could be possible if they take Samsonov off our hands, and our RFAs take a little less money (and that's going to be the biggy). Another option would be the ol "sign and trade" Souray along with Samsonov. Lats-Koivu-Kovalev (10.1 million) Higgins-Richards-Ryder (12.3 million) - assuming Higgins @1.5 and Ryder @ 3 million. So by loading up our top two lines we will have to go el-cheapo on the bottom two lines. Begin-Pleky-Johnson (4.1 million) - assuming Johnson at 2 million and Pleky at 1 million Lapierre-Chipchura-Kostitsyn (2 million) So that is 26.5 million on our forwards. We have 2.875 on Huet for next year, and might as well add $850,000 for Price ... thats another 3.7 million. So now we are up to 30.2 million. We have 4.2 million locked up on 3 defensemen next year .... so by my math we have 14 million to sign 4 other defensemen. Edit: ... If Komisarek takes 2 million, we could conceivably sign Markov and Souray for 5 million each, and sign Gorges or Cote for just under 1 million and still be under the cap. And no buy-outs to boot!!! it's nice to dream isn't it skilly ;D i'd guess that even if we did get richards and fillin the lines with chips etc... the pleks, higgs and komi deals might be tough to get those three to sign for a combined 4.5. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 22, 2007 12:17:31 GMT -5
To put things in perspective WRT Richards cap hit consider this people: Samsonov + Niinima + Aebisher = 8mil in salary...
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Post by Skilly on May 22, 2007 13:42:49 GMT -5
To put things in perspective WRT Richards cap hit consider this people: Samsonov + Niinima + Aebisher = 8mil in salary... The latter two are UFA ... so we don't re-sign, which is why I left off my team. Ans that's why I said if they accept Samsonov in a trade, we could work it. |
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Post by Skilly on May 22, 2007 13:49:59 GMT -5
it's nice to dream isn't it skilly ;D i'd guess that even if we did get richards and fillin the lines with chips etc... the pleks, higgs and komi deals might be tough to get those three to sign for a combined 4.5. It is nice to dream .... I do it every Wednesday and Friday (Lotto 6-49 - dare to dream) But I am not so sure we won't be able to get the kids for what I suggested. If we go by Gainey's last two years and compare the kids to say Ribeiro and Ryder. Ribeiro went from making $600,000 to making 1.3 million. Ryder went from making $550,000 to making 1 million. And that's two guys who were in the tops in scoring on the team and leasders in every major statistical category that year. I don't see Gainey offering Pleky more than 1 million (about double his current salary). Now Higgins and Komi are different beasts, because they can bring an extra little grit to the game. But let's once again see what Gainey did to Ribeiro and Ryder in their second negotiations. Gainey gave Ribeiro a 1.9 million contract (up from 1.3) and Ryder a 2.2 million (up from 1 million). Again these two guys were in the top three on the team in offense. So I don't see Gainey offering Higgins or Komi the moon. I'd say he'll offer each about 1 million extra, and leave a little wiggle room to go to maybe 1.25 million extra. EDIT: The contract I am most worried about (besides any defenseman we can get) is Ryder's. His contract will decide how big a fish we can land. If Ryder is fed-up in Montreal and forces arbitration, I'll bet he'll receive about 4-4.5 million. Gainey will have no choice but to let him go for nothing, or sign him and trade him (which will free up more room and maybe get us a missing piece or two). I am hoping beyond hope that Gainey decides to finally talk to Ryder early, instead of leaving him for last. If he talks to Ryder early and offers a 3 yr deal (remember all arbitration awards are 1 yr deals), then I can see Ryder taking a 3 yr - 3 million per year deal. If Gainey leaves Ryder to last again, I have a feeling Ryder will want every penny he can get for his UFA season. |
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Post by seventeen on May 22, 2007 19:06:52 GMT -5
Richards is a guy you can build the offense around. Do whatever it takes (legally) and maybe give up a little more than you'd like. The chance doesn't come along often to get a franchise player and Richards IMO, is one of those.
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Post by HabSolute on May 23, 2007 7:17:39 GMT -5
Just curious, when exactly can the team start trading again ?
Is it right after the playoffs ?
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 23, 2007 7:29:30 GMT -5
Just curious, when exactly can the team start trading again ? Is it right after the playoffs ? They can right now if they want to. |
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Post by HabSolute on May 23, 2007 8:02:45 GMT -5
Just curious, when exactly can the team start trading again ? Is it right after the playoffs ? They can right now if they want to. Really ? I didn't know that. When did it start ? At the end of the regular season ? |
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 23, 2007 8:18:44 GMT -5
They can right now if they want to. Really ? I didn't know that. When did it start ? At the end of the regular season ? I'm not sure when the trade freeze is lifted but on May 17th the Bruins traded a prospect to Columbus for a pick. |
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Post by Douper on May 23, 2007 9:00:39 GMT -5
I see Ryder as a Jon Cheechoo type of player. Of course Cheechoo has Thornton which helps balloon his stats. But if you take Thornton out he is a 30 goal scorer and is making an avg of 2.5 to 3.0 per season. That's what Ryder should be making with or without arbitration.
Saying that I think your first post got it dead on. Ryder at 3 and Higgins at 1.5
If that happens I don't think they'd be overpayed (for hockey players of course)
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Post by Skilly on May 23, 2007 9:36:45 GMT -5
I see Ryder as a Jon Cheechoo type of player. Of course Cheechoo has Thornton which helps balloon his stats. But if you take Thornton out he is a 30 goal scorer and is making an avg of 2.5 to 3.0 per season. That's what Ryder should be making with or without arbitration. The difference between Ryder and Cheechoo (gesundheit) is that Ryder scores 25 goals no matter who he plays with .... some GM's with high quality centermen may be salivating if Ryder becomes available. (by that I mean Bob walks away if it goes to arbitration). |
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 23, 2007 9:49:26 GMT -5
I see Ryder as a Jon Cheechoo type of player. Of course Cheechoo has Thornton which helps balloon his stats. But if you take Thornton out he is a 30 goal scorer and is making an avg of 2.5 to 3.0 per season. That's what Ryder should be making with or without arbitration. Saying that I think your first post got it dead on. Ryder at 3 and Higgins at 1.5 If that happens I don't think they'd be overpayed (for hockey players of course) I definitely feel Ryder's absolute maximum salary should be 3mil. And still somewhere in the 2.5-2.8 area for 3 years would feel more comfy but 30 goals scorer don't grow on tree. I agree with Skilly though, this contract WILL be a fuss for sure: it's always the case with him. |
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Post by Polarice on May 23, 2007 10:03:29 GMT -5
I see Ryder as a Jon Cheechoo type of player. Of course Cheechoo has Thornton which helps balloon his stats. But if you take Thornton out he is a 30 goal scorer and is making an avg of 2.5 to 3.0 per season. That's what Ryder should be making with or without arbitration. Saying that I think your first post got it dead on. Ryder at 3 and Higgins at 1.5 If that happens I don't think they'd be overpayed (for hockey players of course) I definitely feel Ryder's absolute maximum salary should be 3mil. And still somewhere in the 2.5-2.8 area for 3 years would feel more comfy but 30 goals scorer don't grow on tree. I agree with Skilly though, this contract WILL be a fuss for sure: it's always the case with him. I would pay a little extra...3 mil if he would sign a long term contract....3 - 5 years. |
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Post by HFTO on May 23, 2007 11:11:37 GMT -5
It would cost us some talent ala a cheaper player....there was a rumour of Sammy and Kovalev but I'd think Tampa wouldn't want the equal salary back if only for a year.I like Richards but he's way overpayed.
I push for a Marleau deal.
HFTO
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Post by Skilly on May 23, 2007 13:26:10 GMT -5
I agree with Skilly though, this contract WILL be a fuss for sure: it's always the case with him. Sure, blame it all on Ryder. The only reason it is a fuss is because Gainey ALWAYS leaves him to last to sign. Thereby giving the perception that Ryder is holding out. Both years, and I have this on good authority, both years Ryder accepted Gainey's first non-qualifying offer. He isn't a problem signing, it just takes Gainey time to get around to signing his best goal scorer. It shows a certain underappreciation for Ryder from Gainey, and it also goes to show that the fans are quick to label him .... so why would he want to stay around? |
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 23, 2007 15:05:37 GMT -5
Sure, blame it all on Ryder.? LOL!  I'm not. I said I agree with you that this contract will not be easy. The only reason it is a fuss is because Gainey ALWAYS leaves him to last to sign. Thereby giving the perception that Ryder is holding out. Both years, and I have this on good authority, both years Ryder accepted Gainey's first non-qualifying offer. He isn't a problem signing, it just takes Gainey time to get around to signing his best goal scorer. It shows a certain underappreciation for Ryder from Gainey, and it also goes to show that the fans are quick to label him .... so why would he want to stay around? no, no, no, no... no..way... we're not gonna have a carbon copy argument that we have every summer about bad mean Gainey always out to fleece poor little Ryder... Nope.  Ribeiro was signed first and got traded for a bag of pucks, how's that for appreciation... Signing order is not that important here. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 23, 2007 15:23:14 GMT -5
I push for a Marleau deal. HFTO ...but Marleau is a UFA at the end of next season... |
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Post by Skilly on May 24, 2007 6:39:46 GMT -5
LOL! I'm not. I said I agree with you that this contract will not be easy. I agree it will be sticky ... there are pros and cons and it will be hard to "fit" a salary on him. But I hope the organization does not do what they did last year. Last year, they did not even start talking to Ryder until after the date for filing for arbitration. The only way to avoid arbitration this year will be to start negotiating before that date ..... if it goes to arbitration I think we may lose Ryder. I agree ... not the time or the thread. And I as much as agreed with you with regards to Ribeiro ... mind you it took a few games of Ninimaa benching to show me what a bad trade it was. |
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Post by HFTO on May 26, 2007 8:30:40 GMT -5
True Doc but maybe they could work a sign and trade like the Ottawa / Atlanta deal?
HFTO
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 26, 2007 14:56:37 GMT -5
True Doc but maybe they could work a sign and trade like the Ottawa / Atlanta deal? HFTO That could work indeed. Gainey does seem to have a good connection with Wilson both are from the old school of one hand washes the other, IF (big, big, IF) Marleau was to become somewhat available it wouldn't be far fetched to think Gainey could have an upper hand on the deal. Marleau is agood player and all but like Koivu he isn't, IMO, a franchise level center (I'd personally rank Koivu above him even). What kind of production would Marleau have here? The 60points production that he had before Thornton or the 80 points one that he's had post-Thornton? One thing about Marleau: he's exactly the kind of center that would work dynamite with Kovalev... |
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