Marleau ?

[HabSolute]

franko said:

bostonhabs said:

There's almost too much talk about this, which makes me think it won't happen

Exactly. Since when do we know any of BG's moves in advance?

True, however, if the deal involves 3 teams, it's possible the leak could come from one of the other 2 teams...

How do you say in english ...? Three's a crowd ?

[Skilly]

franko said:

bostonhabs said:

There's almost too much talk about this, which makes me think it won't happen

Exactly. Since when do we know any of BG's moves in advance?

The Samsonov to Chicago rumour just wouldn't go away for half the season and then in the off-season. Everyone thought it was Aucoin ... but the team and our player was accurate enough.

[Skilly]

habsolute said:

How do you say in english ...? Three's a crowd ?

What's that you say? Menage a ... oh wait, nevermind. ;D

[Skilly]

bostonhabs said:

There's almost too much talk about this, which makes me think it won't happen but it makes a ton of sense for the parties involved. SJ signs Drury to give them a proven playoff performer, and then trades Marleau who would be redundant at this point and a year away from being a free agent for Ryder who is also a year away from free agency. They basically lose Marleau and get Drury and Ryder, while Montreal gets the long coveted 2nd centre with size.

Not only is the problem "can we sign him long term" or "will Bob finally deal with a player during the season or extend his contract without having him play a single shift for us" ... BUT .... "who do we play with him"?

We have the cap space to trade for Marleau and keep Ryder. And SJ has the room to sign Drury and keep Marleau for that matter ... they just go with one young defenseman and sign a 3 million guy on the open market.

But with Ryder we have a formidable top six. Latendresse, Koivu, Ryder, Higgins, Marleau, Kovalev.

Without Ryder, I'd want Gainey to sign a guy to play with Marleau and have Kosty on the third line if he makes the team at all.

[habmeister]

skilly said:

bostonhabs said:

There's almost too much talk about this, which makes me think it won't happen but it makes a ton of sense for the parties involved. SJ signs Drury to give them a proven playoff performer, and then trades Marleau who would be redundant at this point and a year away from being a free agent for Ryder who is also a year away from free agency. They basically lose Marleau and get Drury and Ryder, while Montreal gets the long coveted 2nd centre with size.

Not only is the problem "can we sign him long term" or "will Bob finally deal with a player during the season or extend his contract without having him play a single shift for us" ... BUT .... "who do we play with him"?

We have the cap space to trade for Marleau and keep Ryder. And SJ has the room to sign Drury and keep Marleau for that matter ... they just go with one young defenseman and sign a 3 million guy on the open market.

But with Ryder we have a formidable top six. Latendresse, Koivu, Ryder, Higgins, Marleau, Kovalev.

Without Ryder, I'd want Gainey to sign a guy to play with Marleau and have Kosty on the third line if he makes the team at all.

with what we saw from kosty last season he's a lock on the 2nd or 3rd line, and it wouldn't shock me to see him on the pp. would love marleau, but with gainey you never see a deal coming like this one.

[Boston_Habs]

Sometimes a deal makes so much sense it's obvious to the fans as well as GMs.

It's no secret that the Habs' #1 priority is a top centre. It's also no secret that San Jose is getting frustrated with the close-but-no-cigar playoff exits. They need to retool without losing their edge and Drury is a great fit for them. Sure they can sign Drury and keep Marleau to make a huge push next year before letting Marleau walk, or they could deal Marleau now and get something back.

By now Gainey may have a pretty good idea of whether or not Briere is going to be a possibility on July 1st. If he knows it's not going to happen and he's not going to get Drury or Gomez either, then a trade is his only option. San Jose is the perfect partner PROVIDED they sign Drury. If that doesn't happen then the deal makes no sense for the Sharks.

I'm talking myself into this. If the Sharks sign Drury and find a better deal than Ryder then I can live with that but Gainey needs to be first in line on this.

[BadCompany]

skilly said:

franko said:

Exactly. Since when do we know any of BG's moves in advance?

The Samsonov to Chicago rumour just wouldn't go away for half the season and then in the off-season. Everyone thought it was Aucoin ... but the team and our player was accurate enough.

Am I the only one who thinks Gainey doesn’t play anything close to the vest, and he pretty much tells us way in advance what he is going to do?

* He says we need to get bigger and tougher up front, and then brings in Begin and Langdon.

* He says we need to add size to the forward corps, and then he brings in Kovalev.

* He says we need a right-shooting center who is good on face-offs, and then he brings in Dowd. I mean geez, a right-shooting center who is good on face-offs?? Stop being so vague Bob! Be more specific!

* He says we need to get bigger down the middle, and then he brings in Bonk.

* He names Cary Price, completely out of the blue, as one of the guys they would like to draft.

* He says he wants to get a top flight winger to play with Koivu and Ribeiro, and a right defenseman to replace Brisebois, and then he signs a top flight winger to play with a Koivu, and signs a right-shooting defenseman to replace Brisebois.

* He says Jan Bulis and Richard Zednik will not be back with the team, even though Zednik isn’t even a UFA.

* He says Samsonov won’t be back with the team, and as Skilly noted, the Chicago rumors have been around for months.

I’m sure there are others. I don’t know, he seems pretty transparent to me…

bostonhabs said:

San Jose is the perfect partner PROVIDED they sign Drury. If that doesn't happen then the deal makes no sense for the Sharks.

That's kind of the catch though, isn't it? They aren't going to deal Marleau before they have Drury in the fold, and can Montreal wait to see if Drury is in San Jose's fold, before attempting to address the center issue? What if Drury is the last guy to sign?

Additionally, once San Jose has both Drury and Marleau in the fold, assuming they're under the cap, they have no real need to deal Marleau for months. They can sit back and wait for somebody to panic. They can even start the season with the two of them, as Drury has played wing before.

It may happen, but I personally don't see why San Jose would be so hot and bothered to deal Marleau just because he could be a free agent in a year. With Balsillie running Nashville into the ground, and Anaheim potentially losing both Selanne and Niedermeyer, San Jose could have an opening right to the Cup. And Cup contending teams tend to acquire pending free agents, not dump them.

I think San Jose is in the driver's seat, and would only deal Marleau for a home-run deal. And Ryder alone would not be a home-run deal, in my opinion.

[HFTO]

Although I think Ryder would fit well with S.J. he possibly maybe too rich for S.J. regardless.Especially if they do sign Drury and give him big money.
Marleau maybe had for a picks a decent prospect and a player that is moderately proven?
HFTO

[Boston_Habs]

You're right, BC. San Jose would be under no pressure at all to deal Marleau even with Drury in the mix. That would be a pretty stacked team that would be instant Cup contenders. They can keep Marleau for a year at a bargain price of $4MM and let him walk.

That said, Gainey needs to work like heck to make it happen (again, assuming San Jose signs Drury early in the FA season). It may come down to Ryder plus a good prospect, which is tough for Montreal given that we wouldn't have Marleau signed but perhaps it's worth the gamble. Plus someone else may overpay and make SJ a better offer. Either way the Sharks are in a good position.

[Skilly]

badcompany said:

* He says he wants to get a top flight winger to play with Koivu and Ribeiro, and a right defenseman to replace Brisebois, and then he signs a top flight winger to play with a Koivu, and signs a right-shooting defenseman to replace Brisebois.

Who is this winger? Kovalev? They had Kovalev on Koivu's line for about 10 games 3 seasons ago (when he was acquired).... then broke them up in the playoffs ... then in 2005-06 they played sparingly together and last year not at all.

I think Saku is much like Sundin in that the organization refuses to get someone explosive on his line ....

[franko]

badcompany said:

skilly said:

The Samsonov to Chicago rumour just wouldn't go away for half the season and then in the off-season. Everyone thought it was Aucoin ... but the team and our player was accurate enough.

Am I the only one who thinks Gainey doesn’t play anything close to the vest, and he pretty much tells us way in advance what he is going to do?

Apart from not hearing/remembering that Gainey said anything about Price, I guess what I'm saying suggesting is that the moves from the Habs aside (Zednik, Samsonov), few have guessed who is coming to. Kovalev? Few knew or guessed. Dowd? Same. Bonk? Worst nightmare that was only a bad dream. Etc. So to hear marleau marleau Marleau makes me think . . . probably not. Though I'd be happy if he were to come here.

[franko]

Here's a scary thought: Marleau for Higgins (or is it Higgins for Marleau)?

Good old Eklund.

Higgins and Ryder stay on my team along with Koivu, Lats, maybe Pleks and Grabs, Kost and Chips. Otherwise take your pick. And if Marleau signs long term, the maybe becomes weaker.

[now someone drag me back to work]

[Disgruntled70sHab]

franko said:

Here's a scary thought: Marleau for Higgins (or is it Higgins for Marleau)?

Good old Eklund.

Higgins and Ryder stay on my team along with Koivu, Lats, maybe Pleks and Grabs, Kost and Chips. Otherwise take your pick. And if Marleau signs long term, the maybe becomes weaker.

[now someone drag me back to work]

I guess if we go on the premise that "they-Traded-Gretzky" then anything can happen.

Having said that, any deal involving Marleau will be expensive. Gainey would have to send a lineup player the other way. If it is Higgins then maybe there's some weight to the Chimera deal; speedy, penalty killer ... tough Canadian kid ... that sort of jazz.

BH posted that there's just too much talk surrounding any scenario involving Marleau, at least too much to involve Gainey. He's normally very secretive about what he's doing.

Cheers.

[cigarviper]

Okay so here's a kink:

per Eklund

There is another rumoured deal between Washington and Montreal out there, and one source told me it was a "Setup move for a bigger Habs trade that could go down tomorrow morning."

The Canadiens also like Preissing a great deal...


Who doesn't?

So what are we talking here? Price for Ovechkin then Ovechkin for Vinny? Wham-bam-thank-you-m'am. Not so complicated afterall.

[Skilly]

cigarviper said:

Okay so here's a kink:

per Eklund

There is another rumoured deal between Washington and Montreal out there, and one source told me it was a "Setup move for a bigger Habs trade that could go down tomorrow morning."

The Canadiens also like Preissing a great deal...


Who doesn't?

So what are we talking here? Price for Ovechkin then Ovechkin for Vinny? Wham-bam-thank-you-m'am. Not so complicated afterall.

If they traded for Ovechkin ... the trade ends there. You keep him, period!

[Doc Holliday]

franko said:

Here's a scary thought: Marleau for Higgins (or is it Higgins for Marleau)?

Good old Eklund.

Higgins and Ryder stay on my team along with Koivu, Lats, maybe Pleks and Grabs, Kost and Chips. Otherwise take your pick. And if Marleau signs long term, the maybe becomes weaker.

[now someone drag me back to work]

If it takes Higgins than it's a deal breaker.

[franko]

Exactly.

[FREEHAB]

Over the past week, Eklund (for what it's worth), has been spouting off about the possibility of a Redden for Marleau trade. All the while he's been hinting that if "the Ottawa/SJ deal" falls through, look for Montreal to make the move.

Well, he is now saying that "the Ottawa/SJ deal" has fallen through. Redden is not leaving Ottawa (or so he says). He now expects Montreal to try and settle with Ryder and then pull the trigger on a trade for Marleau.

Who knows which players/picks we'd be sending to SJ, but I have to agree that if it involves Higgy, it should never be done.

I wonder if the stumbling block might be that Mtl have to wait another week for Ryder's arbitration hearing. What I mean by that is that SJ may be getting Ryder in the deal, but they'll want to know what sort of deal the arbitrator is awarding if Montreal can't settle prior to the July 30 hearing.

Of course it would be great to keep Ryder AND sign Marleau, I'm just not sure who SJ wants or who we could afford to give them that wouldn't put us into a deficit position???

[Boston_Habs]

I just don't see how this makes sense from San Jose's perspective unless Koivu is the player going back to the Sharks. They didn't get Drury so they don't have the luxury of dealing a surplus player, they are legit conetnders in the West right now, why mess that up?

For Montreal, it's a lateral move and does nothing to advance our progress and may in fact be a net loss as Marleau is not as good an offensive player as Saku.

I'm all over a Marleau trade as long as Koivu is not in the mix.

[Polarice]

bostonhabs said:

I just don't see how this makes sense from San Jose's perspective unless Koivu is the player going back to the Sharks. They didn't get Drury so they don't have the luxury of dealing a surplus player, they are legit conetnders in the West right now, why mess that up?

For Montreal, it's a lateral move and does nothing to advance our progress and may in fact be a net loss as Marleau is not as good an offensive player as Saku.

I'm all over a Marleau trade as long as Koivu is not in the mix.

Can't see them wanting Saku, however, I would imagine they would be looking hard at Pleks.

[FREEHAB]

polarice said:

bostonhabs said:

I just don't see how this makes sense from San Jose's perspective unless Koivu is the player going back to the Sharks. They didn't get Drury so they don't have the luxury of dealing a surplus player, they are legit conetnders in the West right now, why mess that up?

For Montreal, it's a lateral move and does nothing to advance our progress and may in fact be a net loss as Marleau is not as good an offensive player as Saku.

I'm all over a Marleau trade as long as Koivu is not in the mix.

Can't see them wanting Saku, however, I would imagine they would be looking hard at Pleks.

BINGO!

My thoughts exactly.

[Andrew]

bostonhabs said:

I just don't see how this makes sense from San Jose's perspective unless Koivu is the player going back to the Sharks. They didn't get Drury so they don't have the luxury of dealing a surplus player, they are legit conetnders in the West right now, why mess that up?

For Montreal, it's a lateral move and does nothing to advance our progress and may in fact be a net loss as Marleau is not as good an offensive player as Saku.

I'm all over a Marleau trade as long as Koivu is not in the mix.

If San Jose feels that either Marleau probably won't re-sign, or that he's not worth the contract he'll command then it makes sense that to maximize their return now and avoid the risk of losing him for nothing. A young cheap package of Plekanec / Halak could be attractive to them. As a contender, however, dealing him would be a step backwards. Hard to say where San Jose's priorities lie.

From our perspective I don't like that idea. I'm not against giving up prospects / young assets to get a top line player - but not for a pending UFA.

I would way rather target Richards if he's available - as he's under contract for several years still. The price tag is steep, but I could live with it. He's entering his prime, and pretty consistent in terms of points delivered and games played. Over six seasons his average is 73 pts, and has missed a career total of two games - and he's a proven playoff performer. Fewer uncertainties when compared with Marleau.

[Boston_Habs]

Well if you could get a year of Marleau at the cost of Plekanec then I would do that trade, but again I think even a year of Marleau is worth more to the Sharks than Plekanec given that they are Cup contenders right now and would be a worse team in the short run if they made that trade.

I think also that Brad Richards should be the target of serious discussion. Tampa has the 3-headed monster of Vinny-St. Louis-Richards and after Lecavalier's career year, Richards is the contract they would move if the right deal came along. We have prospects to deal (McDonagh, Fischer, Kostitsyn, Chipchura, Lapierre, Price) and we can find a way to even out the salaries by including the likes of Kovalev, Dandenault, Bouillon, etc. in the mix. I still think Richards' $7.5MM contract is big even by today's standards but he's locked up long term and he's still young and productive.

[CentreHice]

bostonhabs said:

Well if you could get a year of Marleau at the cost of Plekanec then I would do that trade, but again I think even a year of Marleau is worth more to the Sharks than Plekanec given that they are Cup contenders right now and would be a worse team in the short run if they made that trade.

I think also that Brad Richards should be the target of serious discussion. Tampa has the 3-headed monster of Vinny-St. Louis-Richards and after Lecavalier's career year, Richards is the contract they would move if the right deal came along. We have prospects to deal (McDonagh, Fischer, Kostitsyn, Chipchura, Lapierre, Price) and we can find a way to even out the salaries by including the likes of Kovalev, Dandenault, Bouillon, etc. in the mix. I still think Richards' $7.5MM contract is big even by today's standards but he's locked up long term and he's still young and productive.

The only thing I disagree with is including Price in any trade talks. At this point, he's untouchable IMO. Unless Pittsburgh's offering Crosby.

[Skilly]

freehab said:

I wonder if the stumbling block might be that Mtl have to wait another week for Ryder's arbitration hearing. What I mean by that is that SJ may be getting Ryder in the deal, but they'll want to know what sort of deal the arbitrator is awarding if Montreal can't settle prior to the July 30 hearing.

Can't see why this would be a stumbling block.

Marleau gets 4.5 million a year. Ryder is not going to get 4.5 million .... so San Jose has the cap room. Also, if Montreal traded San Jose the rights to Ryder for Marleau - San Jose has 7 days to negotiate a price THEY want and leave it entirely out of the hands of the arbitrator.

From Montreal's perspective. The Habs have 10 million in cap space. Even if Ryder gets 4.5 million (which he wont) they still have 5.5 million to fit Marleau's 4.5 million contract under the cap. So Montreal has the room.

There is absolutley no stumbling block if this trade rumour has any truth to it .... the only stumbling block is whether Gainey will give up a bluechip defensive prospect (possibly McDonnagh) and I'd say San Jose could be asking for Komi also. The players are the only blocks as I can see.

[CentreHice]

There is no doubt that Marleau would make the Habs a better team. In fact, he's a player I've always coveted.

But last year's playoffs bothered me.

Marleau disappeared against Detroit. In 6 games, he registered 0 points and was a collective -5. Not one plus game. And that's surrounded by a better all-round team than he'd have in Montreal.

Richard, if we can swing it, would be a better fit....that is if Gainey wants to make Tampa Bay a deeper team down the road as well.

[BadCompany]

andrew said:

If San Jose feels that either Marleau probably won't re-sign, or that he's not worth the contract he'll command then it makes sense that to maximize their return now and avoid the risk of losing him for nothing. A young cheap package of Plekanec / Halak could be attractive to them. As a contender, however, dealing him would be a step backwards. Hard to say where San Jose's priorities lie.

From our perspective I don't like that idea. I'm not against giving up prospects / young assets to get a top line player - but not for a pending UFA.

I would way rather target Richards if he's available - as he's under contract for several years still. The price tag is steep, but I could live with it. He's entering his prime, and pretty consistent in terms of points delivered and games played. Over six seasons his average is 73 pts, and has missed a career total of two games - and he's a proven playoff performer. Fewer uncertainties when compared with Marleau.

I think you've pretty much answered your own question. It only makes sense to deal away pending UFA's for teams that aren't expected to do anything. Contending teams don't worry about things like that...

With Nashville imploding, Detroit relying on an 80 year old goaltender, and Anaheim possibly losing both Selanne AND Niedermeyer, now would be the time for San Jose to load up on UFAs, not the other way around. If San Jose were to deal Marleau I could see it being for Richards, as that would be the type of deal they would want to make (and actually the kind of deal Tampa would be looking to make too, now that I think about it).